I got Petie's first successful BG 162 !!!

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JackieVendetti

Member Since 2013
Hi Everyone,

Petie is at 162 as of 7am - he usually gets his shot at 9am. Should I test him again at 9am to see if he should even give the shot? Or is the 162 reading right now good enough to know he shouldn't have a shot this morning? Of course, we are using a different meter than last night - we have an alphatrax, jennifer used a bayer contour.

Again, Petie is a 13 yo neutered male who is on 1 unit of lantis 2x a day. We skipped his shot last night because he was at 55.

Thanks everyone! We are so excited to have gotten the test on our own!!
Jackie
 
Re: Petie is at 162 this morning - I am guessing no shot?

P.S. I have been doing the keto-diastix for the last 2 days and they have been showing no glucose in the urine. I thought there was something wrong with the stix (i went to get more but the store won't have them until Monday), but then when Jennifer got his blood it was at 55 and this morning it's at 162 so I am guessing it's because his glucose has been lower for the last few days.
 
Sorry I wasnt up at 7.30am. In future if nobody is around you can go onto the lantus board and post there to see if you can get a response.

Did you shoot? We usually advise newbies dont shoot under 200 until they have data to know what the cat will do so I am hoping you didnt. If you did, you will need to get some more tests in today.

The reason for no sugar in the urine is that sugar only appears when the cats blood glucose levels reach the renal threshold which is about 270. So that means he is less than that most of the time.

Now the fact he dropped to 55 and is now only 162 I am thinking he may be on too high of a starting dose. How many days has he been on the Lantus?

Wendy
 
No worries that you weren't up. He was on the Lantus for 16 days initially, then off for 4 days, then I gave him 4 more shots (1 1 unit shot and 3 .5 unit shots) when I got the 55 reading.

I did not shoot today. I tried to get his blood again at 9a, but I couldn't get it. He is very spunky so I don't think his sugar is high.

He ate at 3am - some homemade food and some Young Again.

at 7am he ate mostly dry but also some wellness.

at 9;30 am he ate only Young Again dry.

I am about to feed him again, but he is very frisky - playing with my fiance. i will get some more tests today and let you know.
 
Hi Jackie. I am wondering why you had him on then off and are changing the dose so often. I think with Lantus you need to be more consistent with the dose.
 
I agree that i need to be more consistent. Well, I got nervous because of this tic he has and the fact that I couldn't test his blood. Now, for the last few days, he keeps testing below 200 so I haven't given him his shot. What do you think?
 
Better safe than sorry - dont shoot for now if under 200.

But Donaleen is right - you need to be consistent with dose. I would try the 0.5 and sticking to it for 3-5 days no matter how high he goes - unless he drops under 80 again in which case you would reduce. Reason is that Lantus is a depot insulin - it takes a few days for a dose change to build up (or drain) in the cats system. So you dont see the impact of a change for a few days. You have to wait and see for a few days before you really know how the dose will work.

Perhaps 0.5 will allow you to shoot twice a day the way Lantus is supposed to be dosed.

Any chance of that spreadsheet? Do you need help with it? This will allow us to make progress with him and his dose.

Wendy
 
deep breaths ;)

Now we dont normally advise newbies shoot under 200 because they dont know how their cat will behave and newbies dont know how to handle it the cat does drop low. However a normal cat sits at 50-130 and a diabetic cat may need help getting there.

Looking at his SS he hasnt had a shot since Sunday night and is sitting around 170. Thats not bad at all. ( thanks so much for setting up the sheet - now we have to work getting it into google docs. Do you have an account?

What are you feeding him right now? Are you fully transitioned to low carb? I am wondering if we can tweak his food and bring him down more without insulin.
let me know

Wendy
 
JackieVendetti said:
I agree that i need to be more consistent. Well, I got nervous because of this tic he has and the fact that I couldn't test his blood. Now, for the last few days, he keeps testing below 200 so I haven't given him his shot. What do you think?
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Perhaps the Young Again is helping his BG to come down; what's the ration of your dry (I don't recall the name of it--please share) and the Young Again? Is he still refusing wet food? There's a good chance that he may become a diet-controlled cat. Brandi's Onyx went OTJ a month after (party was yesterday) she switched Onyx to the Young Again...so Onyx is now a diet-controlled diabetic!
 
Ok, deep breaths. Thank you!!

He is 95% transitioned. He won't eat the Young Again dry food unless he has 5% of Taste of the Wild dry food in it.

In terms of canned food (which again, he pretty much just licks) - he is eating Wellness, Dave's, Wysong, Tiki Cat, Chicken, From Scratch (home made food), a little bit of deli-meat Turkey (it's the only way he takes the B12) and dehydrated meats (chicken, turkey, beef, beef liver, stella and chewy's beef, salmon, cod). I have been feeding him also some Wellness with Gravy and Organix with Gravy, but I haven't fed those for a couple of days when I realized those were high in carbs.
On Sunday, he had a bit of cantaloupe.
Every time he eats, he eats the 95% Young Again and 5% of the Taste of the Wild dry.
I have also given him one of each of the following:
Gentle Digest pre and probiotics bite size soft chews
vetri-science lysine plus
Pet Naturals Daily Best

I have also been adding to some of his dishes:
florazyme LP
Pet's Friend Pet G.O. gland and organ concentrate
Kitty Bloom VM 900+3
Standard Process Pancreatrophin PMG dietary supplement
Natural Facots B12 Methylcobalamin 5000 mcg

Ok, this all sounds like I am giving him too many supplements and too much variety....Please advise

Forog
 
I hope so!! He only licks the wet food when I put lots of water on it and put his dry food right on top. He loves gravy, but he won't eat the wet food on it's own - he runs away from it.

I am feeding him maybe 90-95% Young Again and 5-10% Taste of the Wild dry food.
 
JackieVendetti said:
...He is 95% transitioned. He won't eat the Young Again dry food unless he has 5% of Taste of the Wild dry food in it.

In terms of canned food (which again, he pretty much just licks) - he is eating Wellness, Dave's, Wysong, Tiki Cat, Chicken, From Scratch (home made food), a little bit of deli-meat Turkey (it's the only way he takes the B12) and dehydrated meats (chicken, turkey, beef, beef liver, stella and chewy's beef, salmon, cod). I have been feeding him also some Wellness with Gravy and Organix with Gravy, but I haven't fed those for a couple of days when I realized those were high in carbs.
On Sunday, he had a bit of cantaloupe.

I have also given him one of each of the following:
Gentle Digest pre and probiotics bite size soft chews
vetri-science lysine plus
Pet Naturals Daily Best

I have also been adding to some of his dishes:
florazyme LP
Pet's Friend Pet G.O. gland and organ concentrate
Kitty Bloom VM 900+3
Standard Process Pancreatrophin PMG dietary supplement
Natural Facots B12 Methylcobalamin 5000 mcg

Ok, this all sounds like I am giving him too many supplements and too much variety....Please advise

Forog
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Great that he's eating 90-95% Young Again. Now regarding the wet food: He is being fed way too many wet foods, some of which may be medium or high carb (10-30%). We strive to feed only foods that are about 9% or less in carbs; the lower the better.

I would go to Dr. Lisa's charts and look up the carbs on all those wet foods. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of them will not be on the list. In regard to Wellness: which varieties? As for the "gravy" foods: remove them from his diet and put them in your "hypo kit" but be certain they are higher carb, as higher carb foods with gravy are necessary if you have a hypo situation on your hands.

I have the PDF of Dr. Lisa's charts and will email it to you if you don't already have it.

Once you get through Dr. Lisa's charts, I would pick no more than 3 wet foods and feed those exclusively. Giving too many different foods COULD cause GI upsets: vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, diminished appetite and you DO NOT want that to happen; as you know, Gobbles is struggling with that and sometimes it will cost you lost of $$ in labs and vet visits.

As to the supplements: Most of what you listed--I know nothing about. Hopefully, someone else can help you out with that.

Offer a low or no carb treat when testing--even if you don't get blood

So, for now, to encapsulate:

*Continue with the 90-95/10-5% dry
*Pick three LOW CARB wet foods
*No more cantaloupe
*Pick one LOW or NO CARB treat for testing purposes
*Take the higher-carb foods (with gravy) and put them in your hypo kit
*Seek advice regarding the supplements; it would be real helpful to let us know WHY he is taking them
 
Perhaps stopping the wellness gravy is why his numbers are lower. If we finesse the food mix we might be able to bring him down more.

Can you tell me what the % calories from carbs are in the Daves and where you saw the % ? i cant find it on my charts.

What flavours/types of Wysong?

the wellness is the grain free varieties right?

Dehydrated meats and deli meats (no sugar right?) are good. Not worried about supplements unless they have sugar or xylitol in them. Those probiotic chews... sugar? Time to look at all the labels for sugars fructose sucrose etc.

Wendy
 
JackieVendetti said:
I hope so!! He only licks the wet food when I put lots of water on it and put his dry food right on top. He loves gravy, but he won't eat the wet food on it's own - he runs away from it...
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Have you tried watering the wet food ONLY (with NO dry)? Maybe just a little water to begin; a ratio of 3:1
 
How do i find out the carbs?

It's this food: http://davespetfood.com/catalog/for-cats/ - I was feeding both the grain free and not grain free varieties - but I guess I should switch to just grain free.

Jennifer, from Diabetic Cats in Need, gives all of her cats Dave's because she feels it's cheaper than Wellness.

Well, he hasn't even eaten any Wysong in the last couple of days but it was Chicken Stew w/ Gravy, turkey stew w/ gravy and Chicken and Turkey au jus. But I am not going to give him any more stew.

In terms of wellness, I was feeding him signature selects but switched to Grain Free Complete health chicken, grain free complete health turkey and Core chicken, turkey and chicken liver, and the Core beef, venison and lamb formula.

Oh shoot - I was also feeding him By Nature Entrees, Duck stew - but I won't feed him that anymore.

Yes - the dehydrated meats are only meat.

-Ok, I see the daily best has maltodextrin and bromelin - shoot! no more of that.
-Ok, the Gentle digest as ascorbic acid, citric acid and natural flavors - that is not good! no more of that
-vetri-lysine plus has soy lecithin - ok, no more

-the b-12 is a human pill with these ingredients: vitamin b12, lactose (from milk), cellulose, crosameliose, sodium, magnesium sterate (vegetable grade) - it's a pink color.
-Pancreatic PMG has: bovine pancrease PMG, dried alfafa juice, yeast, porcine duodenum, defatted wheat germ, dried buckwheat juice, and buckwheat seed
- Pet GO only has organs
-the Kitty Bloom has soy and citric acid - so I am guessing that is a no?

Thank you so much!
 
He is taking the PMG supplement and the Florazyme because the guy at the holistic pet store recommended it. And then I guess I went nuts with the others :(

I will stop all of them if you guys feel I should. Except, I think Wendy told me to give the B12.

Is feeding him chicken and turkey ok?

Ok, I will stick to Wellness Core, Grain free wellness, Dave's and Tiki Cat. Or is that four?

And only the B12 supplement?
 
I haven't tried wet food with water only - I will!!

And when you say one type of dehydrated meat - I should only give him chicken or turkey - not both? I also sometimes give him salmon to get him to eat something or venison sprinkled on top. Or cod. And sometimes I give him dehydrated beef.

Oi! Thank you!!
 
Ok here's my suggestions

Don't feed :
- Unless you can confirm with DCIN that the Dave's is under 10%calories From carbs, stop feeding it. That chart was dry matter, we would need the "as fed" %.
- Don't feed the wysong gravy foods, gravy is too high carb. And I am not even sure about the au jus. So I would stop those for now too unless we can confirm the carbs.
- take him off the nature entrees too for now so we can see.. I don't know the carbs in this either.

Do Feed- Dehydrated meats, wellness grain free or core (except indoor or salmon flavours) , tiki cat (except the combined fish & rice flavours).

You could probably keep the supplements for now until we see the impact of food change.

These changes could make a huge difference.

Wendy

Ps shove the unused food in a different place. It can be handy for future issues like not eating.
 
Ok, thanks Wendy. Will stop the Dave's, the wysong and the Nature's entrees.

I will go out and get more Wellness grain free (no indoor or salmon flavors) and only the fish free tiki-cat.

What about the From Scratch that I mentioned - do you know about that? http://fromscratchpetfood.com

And should I only feed him one type of dehydrated meat? Or can I vary it?

And can I feed him the deli-turkey and the cooked chicken?
 
Some fish tiki cats are ok, just not the ones combined with rice.

check out this big list and see the third column labelled C (calorie % from carbs) you want it under 10% http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. You only want to feed fish twice a week because of the same concerns as humans.. Too much iodine.

Any of the dehydrated meats and deli and cooked meats is fine. Variety is good. You just want to make sure it's not the sole food he eats since it doesn't have enough nutrients in it, and that the deli meats don't have sugar added.

Wendy

Ps when you said from scratch I thought you were making it yourself! But that food has oats in , and I don't see calorie % of carbs so hold off on it for now.

Pps since you seem to be interested in cat health and diet, you might want to consider making your own food. See www.catinfo.org
 
I think she said you can semi cook it. Ok so when can you start the food change? Mark it on your SS so we can see if it makes a difference.. paws crossed!!!

Wendy
 
Food change happening today. Although I gave him From Scratch and some of the other supplements already. I have a feeling From Scratch pushed up his BG levels. Will test him in a bit.

Ok, added it to the spreadsheet attached here under remarks.

You are all amazing!!!

Ok, I won't freak out that Petie hasn't had insulin.
 

Attachments

Jackie needs dosing advice; she sent me an email with her SS attached and wanted to know IF she should give insulin. I advised her to ask that question here on FDMB in this forum and told her that I would post my email response here:

Hey Jackie--great that you got the SS done! As far as dosing advice, I can't give you any. If you post on the Main Health FDMB Board, you can be sure to get advice. One thing: he HAS to be tested before each and every shot (just a reminder: put food up 2 hours prior to testing him, then test (right before what time that you MIGHT give him his shot) and keep us aware of his numbers. If he is 200 or under, DO NOT SHOOT. Are you gonna stick with using the AlphaTrac or a human glucometer? If you use the AlphaTrac, remember that it reads about 30 points higher than a human glucometer. When we say "DO NOT SHOOT if 200 or under", that means with a HUMAN glucometer.
I'm going to post part of this email response onto your most recent condo; that way you may get more response.
Hang in there!!!

Jackie: Please confirm which glucometer you are using and are continuing to use. Just pick one. Be sure to add which glucometer you are using, on your signature line. It is best to post messages here on FDMB. It makes your questions and comments public and will help you to get more insight and answers; there is almost always someone "here" to help, including myself. BTW, you are doing a fantabu-refic job :-D
 
JackieVendetti said:
I do have a gmail/google account. It's - maybe i have to sign into google docs?
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Yes, I believe there is a separate login for Google Docs/Drive.
 
Nope - Peties BG is under 200 so I wouldnt shoot. I do think and hope our food changes we discussed today will bring his blood glucose down into better numbers.

Jackie - try not to worry - these numbers you are getting are pretty good. Normal cats are 50-130 - Petie is barely above that. Most members here would love your numbers - with or without insulin! You dont also tend to see any damage to the cat when they are under the renal threshold which is around 270 unless they are showing ketones in their pee.

I hope Are you testing for ketones?

Wendy
 
I should clarify though - if the food doesnt bring him down, we may start him slowly and carefully on a very small dose with lots of testing to make sure he doesnt go too low. But as I said I am hoping food will bring him down naturally first - lets give it a few days. This is almost an OTJ trial!

Wendy
 
We are using an Alphatrac. Wendy said we might try to see if we can get his numbers down with diet alone. But I guess I don't understand - we are trying to get him below 100, right?
 
hang on - you are using an AT???!! Can you put "using an alphatrak" in your signature?

I take it all back - a normal cat range on a human meter is 50-130 - BUT if you are using an alphatrak that normal cat range is more like 80 - 160. You are already just brushing the high end of normal!! Thats fantastic. I would DEFINATELY not shoot insulin.

Lets see if the food brings him down into range but he doesnt need insulin at the moment. If he can sustain 80-160 for 14 days he is officially in remission!

Wendy

PS thanks Kate - i didnt realize what meter she was using
 
HI All,

Ok - wow. Sorry! I thought alphatrax was in my signature? Can you show me what you'd like me to write? Or should I write it here in this note each time.

That's pretty awesome. So, he was at 165 last night (the dr's meter) and 171 this morning (alphatrax) and I am going to see how he is in a couple of hours. Maybe he is brushing the high end of normal b/c what I have been feeding him.

Ok, thank you everyone - will let you know what he is in a couple of hours.

Again on Alphatrax
 
It is in your signature, but doesn't stand out.

If you edit it and put it in bold face type, it'll pop out a bit more for folks to notice.
 
No apologies necessary!! Yes, only giving him the 3 different kinds today and no other things - well, I will give him a little turkey and chicken.
 
Petie wasn't too happy with that poke - he ran away before I could put neosporin on it. But he came back out and Mark rubbed it on.

I LOVE the dancing kitties!!! I sure do hope that his kidney levels are ok!! Should hear tomorrow or Thursday. Paws crossed!!
 
Jackie,

SS for Petie is now part of your signature. So glad I could help you out with that.

Deb & Wink

Those were the cheering kitties. This is the happy dancing cat, under "View more smilies" when you are composing a post. dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat ;-)
 
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