I finally tested Georgie's BG myself

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Aria, I need to just put this out there: If your cat tends to stress out at the vet's office, letting the vet do a curve can be REALLY counter-productive.
There's a strong possibility of stress hyperglycemia at the vet's office. Fact is, YOU can do your own curve at home, on a weekend when needed.
In-clinic curves, in my humble opinion, are nothing more than cash-cows for veterinary practices. (The only exception being when someone literally cannot test at home.)

P.S. When my vet up in Colorado realized I was willing to test @ home, he actually told me that doing the curves at home is better!
 
Georgie said:
I have him scheduled to go to the vet today for a curve too. They said I need to feed him and give him his shot first before bringing him.
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Is that normal?
My vet specifically did NOT want me to have fed or given the shot when I went for Shenandoah's curve. They wanted to see her pre-shot/pre-food numbers (which I'm glad they did, because they were low), and also wanted to watch me give the shot so they could verify I was doing things correctly.
 
Shenandoah said:
My vet specifically did NOT want me to have fed or given the shot when I went for Shenandoah's curve. They wanted to see her pre-shot/pre-food numbers (which I'm glad they did, because they were low), and also wanted to watch me give the shot so they could verify I was doing things correctly.
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@Shenandoah has an excellent point here! Frankly, it sounds to me as though this vet is not too well-versed on best practices in treatment of diabetes. If this were my kitty, I'd skip this curve today @ vet's office altogether ... and start looking for a new vet.

Seriously.
 
Your first clue was when the vet told you that you didn't need to test BGs at home. Think about this: If he were a human child, would you shoot insulin without first getting your child's blood glucose #?* Of course not! So is really no different for a diabetic cat.

*(Heck, if a physician advised you in this way for a diabetic child, that doc would be in danger of losing his/her license to practice medicine.)
 
Incidentally ... I am not at all surprised that Georgie's #s are going down: You are feeding all low-carb now. And it's quite common that a diet change alone can make a drastic improvement in the blood glucose numbers. Looks to me like Mr. G is responding VERY well to the diet you're feeding now.
:)
 
Robin&BB said:
P.S. When my vet up in Colorado realized I was willing to test @ home, he actually told me that doing the curves at home is better!
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Hey, I'm in Colorado! My vet is female, though.
My vet told me straight out that home testing was best, but since most people aren't willing to do it she could do periodic curves as the most feasible alternative. She also explained to me the problems associated with doing a curve at the vet's.
My vet also gave me the link to this website on the day of our diagnosis :)

She's not an expert in diabetes, but it sounds like she's one of the better ones out there, based on what I've read around here.
 
Shenandoah said:
She's not an expert in diabetes, but it sounds like she's one of the better ones out there, based on what I've read around here.
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@Shenandoah - Yep, sounds to me like you definitely have one of the better ones! What blows me away is that there are still so many vets out there who don't encourage home-testing of BG#s.
 
I did skip the vet curve appointment. If his numbers are indeed good I am afraid of him reverting and going higher again. Maybe from the stress or maybe they will feed him that crap they sell.
I do think about switching vets not only because I didn't like that they told me "What he eats doesn't really matter." But also because they did not tell me to test before each shot. It should be a no s*it thing and I should have figured that out but I didn't. I have no experience in caring for the chronically ill of any species.
My vet is in Denver but its a trek for me too.
If anyone knows of a better one?
I also don't know why they want to start the curve after food and shot but they keep him until late.
They just tell me to make sure that I don't miss a shot and must give one every 12 hrs. They did not specify that at any point I should skip one.
 
Honestly, I think most vets are used to dealing with people who won't go the extra mile for their kitty. My vet told me about home testing upfront, but she didn't appear to think it was something I'd do - she's used to people who don't want to, and tries to accommodate as best she can.
As unfortunate as it is, those of us around here are in the minority. So sometimes we need to go out of our way to make our vets realize that.

I'd recommend my vet, but we're down in Colorado Springs, so I'm guessing that's probably even more of a trek for you :(
 
Georgie said:
It should be a no s*it thing and I should have figured that out but I didn't.
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Aria, please don't beat yourself up. Believe me, we've all been where you are right now: Being new at this; thinking things like, "Why didn't I KNOW?!" Feeling confused when you discover that your vet isn't very well-versed in treating a condition like feline diabetes; feeling pretty darned overwhelmed by all of it. Trust me on this: It gets much better; it gets easier. Just think: You've already learned so much in such a short time! You have your Georgie on low-carb food, you've learned to home-test his blood glucose, you've been doing your "homework" - reading, etc. because you are motivated to learn (which is a lot more than we can say for certain vets some of us have known:rolleyes:).

AND you landed at FDMB! (I can't express enough how grateful I am for all the support and great, accurate guidance I've received from the other members on the forums here!!!)
Georgie said:
I did skip the vet curve appointment.
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I am so glad to hear you decided against that in-office curve - see how much wisdom your own "gut" has provided you already?:) When you want/need the data that a full curve can provide (and at this point, you may not even need one, given the #s you're seeing currently), you'll get much more reliable #s by doing it at home where Georgie is more comfy and relaxed!
Georgie said:
My vet is in Denver but its a trek for me too. If anyone knows of a better one?
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I know that @Sue and Oliver (GA) is in the greater Denver metro area; perhaps she can provide you some good input about vets in the area.
@BJM also has an excellent list of interview questions you can ask prospective vets. Unfortunately, when I'm up home in CO, my vet is way over on the western slope. Has been so many years since I lived in Denver that I can't even remember which vet I'd used when I was there.:confused:
 
Shenandoah said:
Honestly, I think most vets are used to dealing with people who won't go the extra mile for their kitty. My vet told me about home testing upfront, but she didn't appear to think it was something I'd do - she's used to people who don't want to, and tries to accommodate as best she can.
As unfortunate as it is, those of us around here are in the minority. So sometimes we need to go out of our way to make our vets realize
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My vet doesn't broach the subject first. He waits till the owner does. To him it shows the owner is willing to. He is all for it though. He found if tells them they scared and back off. So he lets them bring it up.
 
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Georgie said:
What is happening.. His BG was now 137 AMPS... after eating....
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That could be Georgie's pancreas helping out. In normal circumstances with a healthy pancreas eating causes the pancreas to produce pulses of insulin. Just before Saoirse went into remission her blood glucose level would drop within a couple of hours after a feed. If Georgie's pancreas is starting to sputter then you need to make sure you're getting as many BG spot checks as you can manage.


Mogs
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Georgie said:
I am using an AlphaTrak BG meter purchased through the Vet. I was able to finally get a reading on it and it said 76.. Then I realised I don't effin know what this means so I called the vet office. (The booklet with it does not say anything)

Apparently it is a low reading. I was advised not to dose him tonight. She seemed dubious about this number. She said as recently as he was diagnosed it made no sense he would read that way. She questioned if I did it right, I am pretty sure I did. I mean, before when I tried I only got errors as I messed it up or didn't get the blood to it in time before it shuts off..
I told them I ended his dry food a week ago and she was like: "Oh that doesn't really matter. His food doesn't really matter.." I have no idea why she would say that it doesn't matter! How does food not matter in a diabetic cat?

Anyway.. Does anyone understand how to use this meter? I mean, I have no idea what the readings mean. I know that if the BG is too high or low the meter will tell me "HI" or "LOW" Respectively.. He had eaten before the testing. I'm thinking that the reason he is eating like a horse is maybe he didnt need this high 3 unit dose of Prozinc.. Maybe he was too low..I don't know. I am freaking out. I don't want to kill my cat!
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Hi, I am by no way an expert with this diabetic stuff, I am dealing with this myself with my Murphy. I too am just starting to do home bg testing; BUT!! Be aware FOOD DOES MATTER!! I changed Murphy from dry to moist food and his bg levels went back down to normal!! However my vet has kept me giving him a high does of insulin, which I am questioning!! This is why I am doing my own home testing with hopes of getting help to regulate his insulin so I don't kill him by giving him too much insulin. I have always been told a reading between 80 and 120 is in a normal range. People here are great help, they won't lead you wrong, really listen to them!! :=)
 
I think they are right its the diet. He is eating Tiki Cat and since his numbers drop. Also of course he was being curved at the vet before I knew what to do but I notice a good change in him since the switch to Tiki Cat. He responds better to it than FF by the look of his coat and such.
 
I suppose I will be giving his shot to him in two hours (his normal shot time). He tested at 203 just now (Hasn't eaten). I think I will lower the dose though. Maybe I will try 1.5 units.
 
Georgie said:
I did skip the vet curve appointment. If his numbers are indeed good I am afraid of him reverting and going higher again. Maybe from the stress or maybe they will feed him that crap they sell.
I do think about switching vets not only because I didn't like that they told me "What he eats doesn't really matter." But also because they did not tell me to test before each shot. It should be a no s*it thing and I should have figured that out but I didn't. I have no experience in caring for the chronically ill of any species.
My vet is in Denver but its a trek for me too.
If anyone knows of a better one?
I also don't know why they want to start the curve after food and shot but they keep him until late.
They just tell me to make sure that I don't miss a shot and must give one every 12 hrs. They did not specify that at any point I should skip one.
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I have a friend who is very connected in the feline veterinary world and is from Denver. I just asked her and she immediately said Tender Touch Animal Hospital in Downtown Denver
 
Thank you Carol & Murphy. I will definitely check them out and see how it goes. I appreciate it.
 
Ok just did the PMPS and it was down again to 160 and he did eat 2 hours ago. He had a small bit of Tiki Cat with water. About a tablespoon of actual food. So 203 when he hadn't eaten and now 160 when he has....
 
I think what this is telling you, Cara, is that Georgie's pancreas is working. But do you see why it's so important to test at AMPS/PMPS time? Is amazing sometimes, how much the #s can change (blood glucose can rise & fall many times each day - that's to be expected).
 
I am worried about the balance of things at the moment. He is still a little above the "normal" range, I have not given him a shot in awhile. He eats, maybe should a little more to be sure he doesn't lose weight too fast. He is a little over weight but not obese. (Vet's words) he is a big cat, length and height wise. He looks a little smaller now but I do not have a scale..
So I test, feed, shot if needed. Don't really shoot under 200... I ask a lot of questions sorry!!!
Mainly, how do I get him into the green from here? This is what is confusing me most at this time.
 
With a brand new diabetic, I'd suggest being cautious. Especially as the food change is making a difference and his pancreas seems to be helping. If he stays under 180 or so without insulin, I'd just keep feeding him the low carb and watch him. If he gets up above 200, you could give him a shot - but a tiny dose.
 
Ok, AMPT was 181 so I gave him .05u went to work.. When I got home his test was 90. He was also hungrier than yesterday. (On another note, the little brat managed to turn on my gas burner on the stove, all the way up and wrecked a pot that was sitting there. Lucky he didn't burn the house down. What a scare though)
Maybe its a good dose, I don't know because I wasn't able to test him throughout the day.
 
When was the 90 - how long since the shot? That is pretty low, especially if he was lower earlier in the day (likely). I would plan to lower the dose even more - maybe pulling up 0.5 and letting out a few drops (if he is over 200)

And next time, leave out some food so if he drops low, he can eat and being himself up.
 
The 90 was +9 hrs after testing 181 and getting the shot. I don't really understand what numbers I am trying to hold on to.
 
In general, you want to shoot over 200. If he is close (like 190) you could also consider a shot. But I would reduce the dose a little.

If he is in the 80s 5-7 hours after the shot (the lowest point) then you want to pay attention. If he drops lower, then you need to intervene with regular food. If he drops below 70, then give some higher carb food and retest in 20 minutes.

As he is dropping pretty with each cycle, I would always err on the side of caution and dose low, if you give insulin at all.
Better too high than too low, always, with a new diabetic with changing numbers.

Generally ProZinc gives you a smile curve, with the lowest point 5-7 hours after the shot. The preshot numbers are the highest points and usually in the same range. So maybe 220 at preshot, 90 at the lowest point (+5-7 hours after the shot) and back up to the 200s at the next shot time.

Make sense?
 
In general, you want to shoot over 200. If he is close (like 190) you could also consider a shot. But I would reduce the dose a little.

If he is in the 80s 5-7 hours after the shot (the lowest point) then you want to pay attention. If he drops lower, then you need to intervene with regular food. If he drops below 70, then give some higher carb food and retest in 20 minutes.

As he is dropping pretty low with each cycle, I would always err on the side of caution and dose low, if you give insulin at all.Better too high than too low, always, with a new diabetic with changing numbers.

Generally ProZinc gives you a smile curve, with the lowest point 5-7 hours after the shot. The preshot numbers are the highest points and usually in the same range. So maybe 220 at preshot, 90 at the lowest point (+5-7 hours after the shot) and back up to the 200s at the next shot time.

Make sense?
 
Thank you for that. I appreciate all the help. :) My vet called me today to check up on Georgie. I told her about the numbers and she said she wants to see him sitting in the 100s. She asked if I was giving him his daily injections but I brushed past those questions. She expects him to get the shots twice a day still knowing the numbers? He will have a regular appointment next month to check his health otherwise. I hope she tells me he is good. :)
 
Great news about Georgie's progress. :)

Georgie said:
I have not given him a shot in awhile. He eats, maybe should a little more to be sure he doesn't lose weight too fast. He is a little over weight but not obese. (Vet's words) he is a big cat, length and height wise. He looks a little smaller now but I do not have a scale..
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Weight reduction in cats needs to be very gradual to avoid potential problems with fat build-up in the liver.

Digital baby scales are reasonably priced and ideal for monitoring a kitty's weight.


Mogs
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I have been looking around the site for this answer but haven't found exactly what I want to know.
I just bought a ReliOn Confirm because I ran out of strips for my alphatrak 2 (Also didn't read other strips work in the AlphaTrak 2 until after I tripped out and ran to the store) My vet does not carry strips currently (of course) Sooooo
I did a reading on Georgie, PMPS it read 119. Does this number correlate to AlphaTrak numbers? How do I interpret the readings to know when to dose or how he is doing? (I understand I can use it to see patterns but I would like a simple way to know what I am seeing in the numbers.)
I will go buy Freestyle lite strips for my alphatrak later but I guess it is handy to have two different machines about anyway.
 
There's really no pat answer to correlate the numbers between the AT and a human meter except on the low end....68 on the AT = 50 on a human meter

We've never gotten an EXACT answer to how to convert other numbers, but generally, the AT readings are about 35% higher than a human meter, so 119 on a human meter would be about 160 on the AT

We used to say "add 30" to a human meter but there's been lots of discussions since then that makes it harder to convert since the writers of the Lantus protocol changed their original numbers (Used to be 80 = 50 but they changed it to the 68=50)
 
I would just use the meter and not worry about any differences 119 is too low to shoot on any meter. With your human meter 50 will be the number to pay attention to for a low nadir
 
I did not shoot him since yesterday morning but his numbers seem to be crashing. Relion meter read 49!
I have fed him some regular kibble just now. :( :(
 
No diet change recently no. He is eating the Tiki Cat and the Vital Essentials raw freeze dried still. I gave him his last shot of insulin yesterday morning because he was a little over but I gave him only a tiny dose. This morning his number was lower, then once today it was lower too now he got a really low number (49)
 
So what should I do now? Just test him again? He seems to be ok attitude wise. He played with his string with me. He ate but left food so he's not ravenous..... I hope he is ok
 
as long as there's no insulin on board, he's fine!!

ProZinc only lasts 12 hours so if you haven't given him any since yesterday morning, he's keeping his BG down on his own!

You could test him again just to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with the meter/strip if you want to, but you really don't have to worry about him going too low without any insulin

In the morning, test at his usual shot time and go from there

Which meter are you using now Aria?
 
OK....one thing to remember....on the human meters, 50 is a totally normal number so 49 is just one point off that

IF he had gotten insulin within the past 12 hours, you'd want to get him up a little, but since he hasn't, rejoice!!!....and get a good night's sleep without worry!

Tomorrow is another day...we'll just have to see how he does
 
It was a good 6 months before I could say I "kind of" understood this crazy sugardance!!

Be kind to yourself...you've only been at this a week!!

All in all, this is good news!! Maybe the diet change will be all Georgie needs!
 
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