I don't know what to do for him

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marvin's Mom - Nat

Marvin's Mom - Nat

Member Since 2017
I don't know what to do for my cat Marvin. My heart is breaking and I finally losing it today. Been crying for over hour now. He so helpless.

He was diagnosed about 6 weeks ago with diabetes. I took him in because he was peeing everywhere and what I though was artheritise was really bad. Vet put him on insulin, started at 2 units 2x a day. Now we are at 4 2 x per day. He can barely walk anymore, basically pees on himself the last 2 days he's made it a couple time to the box or close to it. Today he came downstairs slowly, I guess he wanted to be near me. he likes the tiles so was lying in the kitchen floor. I spent a bit of time with him, and I went to the living room, not even 30 minutes later went to check on him, he hadn't moved. but he was lying in his pee, a huge huge puddle all around him. I don't know what to do. His number are still way too high, are his legs going to come back or is it too late. He just seems so much worse. I am trying to be patient, I don't want to lose him but I feel so scared, my vet says to be patient, that it will take time to get his numbers down, and we can try the B12 shot once his numbers are normal. He just seems worse, walking, peeing, his numbers barely went down the last 2 weeks. I am scared even if his numbers go down, that his legs a damaged and he won't be able to walk again. I am afraid to lose him.

Is there anything I can do for him now to help?
 
I'm not sure how to help with these types of issues. What kind of insulin is he on? Going from 2 units to 4 in six weeks seems to fast to me. A lot of vets increase the dose too much in too short of a time. I don't like to offer dosing advice but maybe you cld try lowering his dose a bit.
I'll tag a few experienced members to see if they can help. @Kris & Teasel and @Rachel do you have any advice for Marvin's Mom?
 
Are you testing at home?
What kind of insulin?
I don't see why they would wait to give him b12. You can give him an oral supplement, Zobaline. I give 1 pill a day but some give 1 pill twice a day. It could help his legs.
 
If you can let us know your insulin type and any BG numbers you have that would definitely help!

I know that's got to be hard seeing your baby like that. I'm not sure why it's happening, but it could be due to low or high numbers.
 
We actually went from 2 units 2x a day for two weeks, then 3 units 2 x a day for another 2 weeks, and last week started at 4 units, 2 x. Vet said that we will not increase in 2 weeks even if numbers are not going down much as at this point will need to wait longer for his system to react. He is a very big cat, was 22 lbs now 19, normal weight for his length would probably be 17 pounds give or take.

I am in Canada so the way they do the numbers here is different. Normal is 5 - 7, and he was at 30, and last time at the vet he was down to 22. Will have to see how the conversion works. Insulin is lanthus/glargine. I think 80 mg/dl–4.44 mmol/L couldn't find a conversion table I understood for blood sugar levels between US and Canada...
 
Vet wasn't familiar with B12, she did look it up when I brought it up. Said that based on what whe read it given once the cat's numbers are in normal range. So I haven't pushed, mind you I have bought the suppliment just wasn't sure if it would work or not. If it won't hurt I definately would like to try.
 
Marvin's Mom said:
couldn't find a conversion table I understood for blood sugar levels between US and Canada...
Click to expand...

To convert, you multiple your numbers by 18, or divide our numbers by 18...so your 5-7 is our 90-126

Your vet has taken you up too quickly. We do dose increases in .25 unit increments so we don't bypass what could be a "good dose"

Are you home testing yet? By home testing, you'll be able to see what's really going on with your sweet Marvin

Too much insulin can look like not enough....We have seen cats here go from 400 to 40 (22.2 to 2.2) and back to 400 again by the next shot time.....if you only saw the high numbers, you'd think they needed more insulin, when in fact, they needed less

We can help you learn what you need to know and give you the best chance at caring for Marvin!
 
I don't have any experience with Lantus, so I'll leave in the hands of those who do. However, I do think that it's possible the problem is you were raised too quickly and therefore, skipped the ideal dose. Chris, Sharon, and others can help give you specifics about your insulin.

Let me also reiterate that home testing is the way to go! That can help you get much better control over things and save you money from testing at the vet's office too!
 
You don't need a prescription to give your cat oral b12. They pee out excess so you can't over dose him. It will help the neuropathy in his legs. Get some TOMORROW. I have used b12 methylcobalamin capsules that I open and sprinkle on food... There are two forms of b12.... Make sure it's methylcobalamin. NO NEED TO WAIT.
 
I did buy the blood sugar machine for home testing, so yes I can test at home. Just not sure when I am suppose to test. I know the vet office prefers to test him 6 hours after his morning dose. So the couple times I have successfully been able to test him I tried around that midway point. I am happy to test him more frequently and keep a journal. They kept him overnight last week to test his urine for UTI, as it was empty at the time, and his numbers do go up alot at the vet due to stress.

Ketones, doen't know what that is, I will look it up. Is that used to test urine? May not have that available here at pharmaccy, but my sister is coming to visit my mom next week from colorado, I can get her to pick some up, including the Zobaline if you think that will help. Already left her a message that I have a shopping list from Marvin for her.

Since I have the blood sugar machine to test his blood, the vet suggested that she calls me instead of me going in to review his numbers, so no cost to me.

His eating since he has been diagnos is not great. The first week he was almost not eating, this from a cat that is always hungry. It's improved a bit. I give him a mixture of wet and dry.... mostly wet now.... buying from vet Purina ProPlan Veterinary diets, DM wet and dry, I occassionaly will switch the wet with a standard protien based standard wet food (once a week).
 
There's no reason you need to feed the "prescription" foods.....and the dry is VERY high carb and not even good for a diabetic! (despite the name!)......most of us feed plain Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pate's or 9-Lives ground......what's important is to feed a high protein, low carb (less than 10%) diet

You should always test before shooting....we call it the "Pre-shot test".....otherwise you have no way of knowing if it's safe to give insulin at all! After that, if you can get a mid-cycle test (5 to 7 hours after the morning shot) on the AM cycle and at least a "before bed" test on the PM cycle, that's enough.....lots of us test much more often, but those 4 tests a day are really important if you can do them.

Ketones are a by-product of the body burning fat and is basically a poison.....when they can't get the nutrition they need from their food, the body starts to burn fat and that produces ketones. You can buy urine ketone test strips to test Marvin to make sure he isn't throwing any ketones....anything over "trace" is a medical emergency.
 
You should be able to get ketone test strips at any pharmacy that sells diabetes supplies. As Chris said test him before you give a shot and when possible try to get a few tests between shots. The wet food is best. It's also good to mix some extra water in the food to help with hydration. if you want to start the Zobaline, have your sister order it from Amazon. Here's the link
https://www.amazon.com/ZobalineTM-Diabetic-Cats-60-tabs/dp/B008G3LI2M/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
 
Thank you all. I will definately take all your advice. I am feeling much better, I will try the spread sheet to monitor his numbers.

One last item, when I take a blood sample from Marvin's ear, I keep going through the ear. Is there a trick or will I simple get better at it.:)
 
You could try using a cosmetic make up pad held up against his ear. It might help if you have that there to help you not to go through his ear. I have heard of other people doing that and also using a flashlight to better see the inside of the ear.
 
Marvin's Mom said:
One last item, when I take a blood sample from Marvin's ear, I keep going through the ear.
Click to expand...

Make him the coolest cat in town and put a diamond stud in...LOL

Seriously though, I "pierced" China's ears so many times at first that I thought about buying her a pair!! You'll get better!!

A little Neosporin with pain relief ointment (not cream) can really help heal those ears up....just a very thin film is all it takes (you don't want to "gunk up" the next test strip by putting on too much)
 
It really is important to switch to low carb food like Fancy Feast or Friskies in pate style, it'll make a huge difference in his BG numbers, so much that you'll really need to home test because he might suddenly need less insulin. I used to poke Dusty right through his ear while holding a cotton ball on the other side, there was no problem and I always got some blood :).
 
JanetNJ said:
You don't need a prescription to give your cat oral b12. They pee out excess so you can't over dose him. It will help the neuropathy in his legs. Get some TOMORROW. I have used b12 methylcobalamin capsules that I open and sprinkle on food... There are two forms of b12.... Make sure it's methylcobalamin. NO NEED TO WAIT.
Click to expand...
Where do you get that? I just asked my vet for the injectible kind. She should have it ready by tomo. I didn't know you can get it elsewhere in pill form
 
Dusty Bones said:
It really is important to switch to low carb food like Fancy Feast or Friskies in pate style, it'll make a huge difference in his BG numbers, so much that you'll really need to home test because he might suddenly need less insulin. I used to poke Dusty right through his ear while holding a cotton ball on the other side, there was no problem and I always got some blood :).
Click to expand...
However do not make the food change until you are hometesting and lower the dose. Otherwise you have a great risk for him becoming hypoglycemic. That could be very dangerous.
 
Hello all. Marvin is doing ok. Seems to be drinking a little less water. I lowered his dose a little. Haven't been able to test him more than 2x a day yet. He is being difficult about it. He is still peeing lying down on the floor. His personality seems to be coming back of that makes any sense even if he still not walking much. Maybe my imagination but he seems more himself in some ways. The lowest before food has been 19.9... highest 22.7. Haven't gotten a mid point yet. Hoping he will let me tonite before bed.
 
Here's something I wrote up for others that needed help with testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well.

When you're first starting, it's also important to use a lower gauge lancet, like 25-28 gauge. Most of the "lancet devices" come with 33 gauge lancets and they are just too tiny to start with. The bigger lancets (that are lower numbers) make a bigger "hole". As you poke more and more, the ears will grow new capillaries and will be easier and easier to get blood from...we call it "learning to bleed"

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
Thank you Chris. It's a long weekend so I will try the treats cause he has figured out what I am doing when I put him on the counter.

I have tried to give him cooked chicken but he doesn't tend to like people food... well except like garfield he used to drive me nuts when we has lasagna for dinner or ice cream... he doesnt like salmon either just if its catfood.... weird cat... will see what I can find that is low carb at the pet store.
 
Anything that he likes (low carb) will work.....or some cats who aren't motivated by food get rewarded with a grooming or play session....it's whatever works for your cat!! You don't have to use the counter either....anyplace that works for you is all that's important. They do tend to do better when you make it the same place though so they understand that's the place they get their reward (as long as they put up with a little "ear"itation from you....lol)

China's favorite treat now is the Orijen Wild Boar treats.....they seem to be a favorite around here with cats that don't like any other treats......they're not available everywhere but some of the smaller "boutique" pet food stores have them (as well as places like Chewy.com and Amazon)

Here are some other Low carb treats
 
My vet gave me buprenorphine or " bupe" for short to give to Smoky for pain as needed. He gets flare ups from pancreatitis and I give him to him orally.
 
Noah gets BUPE for severe dental issues. He HATED the oral and I hated giving to him. Now he gets transdermal inside is ear and it just tickles. No reason for Marvin to be in that much pain.
 
this may sound like a silly question, but I didn't realize he was in pain. I thought that his not being able to walk was weakness, not pain. When they have high BG other than their hind legs for those with neurapathy, is there other pain? If he is in alot of pain than it makes sense that he wouldn't go to his litter than :( feeling bad for not realizing....
 
My cat hates his back end touched right now. It's getting better with the b12 but he never got bad enough where he couldn't walk. He would meow like he was yelling when we touched his back legs or back/tail. Now he will reach back and pull your hand forward off his back end. I imagine the neuropathy feels like a painful "dead arm" when it starts to come back after falling asleep.
 
Marvin's Mom said:
this may sound like a silly question, but I didn't realize he was in pain. I thought that his not being able to walk was weakness, not pain. When they have high BG other than their hind legs for those with neurapathy, is there other pain? If he is in alot of pain than it makes sense that he wouldn't go to his litter than :( feeling bad for not realizing....
Click to expand...
I felt the same way. Don't feel bad. You're helping him now :)
 
Marvin's Mom said:
this may sound like a silly question, but I didn't realize he was in pain. I thought that his not being able to walk was weakness, not pain. When they have high BG other than their hind legs for those with neurapathy, is there other pain? If he is in alot of pain than it makes sense that he wouldn't go to his litter than :( feeling bad for not realizing....
Click to expand...
When you know better you do better. ;) phoebe has pancreatitis and Irratable bowel diesease. She gets gabapentin 2x a day. It does make her sleepy, but better her not hurting. And she gets bupe 3 x a day in her ear (gel) and she gets onisor for 3 days then off 3. She has gotten better about not being sleepy or loopy but sometimes her backend wobbles. It gets better, it really does. We are all here for each other to help thru the FD marathon. Head bumps for Marvin, and take one gor yourself.
 
Phoebes said:
When you know better you do better. ;) phoebe has pancreatitis and Irratable bowel diesease. She gets gabapentin 2x a day. It does make her sleepy, but better her not hurting. And she gets bupe 3 x a day in her ear (gel) and she gets onisor for 3 days then off 3. She has gotten better about not being sleepy or loopy but sometimes her backend wobbles. It gets better, it really does. We are all here for each other to help thru the FD marathon. Head bumps for Marvin, and take one gor yourself.
Click to expand...
I really can spell. It's the phone :)
 
I got here late but wanted to offer some moral support for Marvin and his momma. You came to the right place for sure, there are lots of people here that will help you out and it seems like you're off to a good start to getting on the right path to success. I was going to ask you which food you decided to switch him to. I feed my cats the Friskies Classic Pate and they do really good on it plus it's got pretty good ingredients and it's really affordable, you'll save a ton of money by switching to something like that. The savings can be used for more test strips or something because Lord knows those aren't cheap lol. Just be sure that you lower his dose of insulin by at least a unit if not more once you switch him over to the new food. I really have a good feeling about Marvin, I don't know why but I do. I hope that he gets better soon.
 
Marvin's Mom, you must think we're a digital mob with all this advice. "It's not what it looks like officer!" Don't worry, we're all trying to help. We've all had cats with oddball conditions and N2CATS (no 2 cats are the same) means what works for me might not work for you and Marvin. Never mind Phoebes spilling, sumtims I kant dood it eeter evon on da kompuder.
 
This is me, giant keyboard, can't function without a mouse, paper GPS (maps), white hair. And I should be telling you about grammar and spelling? Out of the way old-timer!
I have 2 of the old Microsoft Natural Elite keyboards, about as big as a house, great for people with hand and wrist injuries. I've broken all my fingers, some more than once, right thumb and my wrist. Long story.
 
Marvin reminds me so much of my wife's first cat Gaylord, a name we did not pick! Granny moved to Arizona and left the old man behind so she took him in. We never knew why he looked so beat up.
gay00006.JPG
 
I just want to co-sign the advice to ask your vet about gabapentin. I knew my cat, Billy, was arthritic a few months ago but thought he was fine. I started with half a gabapentin pill a day recently and he started doing things I didn't even notice he'd stopped doing, like cleaning his hind quarters. Now he loves to clean himself and he's climbing the stairs just for fun. He's also a lot more affectionate now because he's not afraid to be touched. I wish I'd started it sooner.
 
oh goodness, I've got Gabapentin to give my cats to keep them calm during move day, I swear that if I notice a huge change in Peanut like as if he's been being held back by not taking it I am going to feel awful.
 
Hello Everyone

well bought a whole bunch of different pate for kitty, started filling out the spread sheet, and checked his ketones.

Ketones negative :) so guessing that is good. His personality is good except today, he's been grooming himself which has been a while.

today when I got home, not sure if he throw-up or if he had diarrhea. He seemed fine a little quiet, was fisty when i tested his blood. a bit lower than I expected as it was +11 hours since his shot. This morning before food he was 22.6 and when I got home 19.7 .. I happy its lower, but wondering if maybe it got too low earlier in the day. What do you think?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top