I don’t know, what I am doing anymore

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Tiger-Hobo

Tiger-Hobo

Member Since 2013
I posted in the Health forum as of “Totally Hopeless’ back in November (the latest) and got great help and support. Wendy suggested in November that I should come over and ask some advice here from those of you who have lot more knowledge and experience. I delayed this because things started go forward, then because turned upside down and I became depressed again. Now I feel I letting done Kangaroo (probably I do) so finally came here now and I would like to ask for some advice. Please check his SS and tell me what i do wrong or just what to do. I increased his dosage several time, then came back to start all over because the numbers became and stayed high. By now is high doesn't matter what I do.

He has a bad diarrhea since Tuesday and his appetite is gone. ( I do have an flue epidemic in the house, several kitties has diarrhea and vomiting, sneezing etc. so I am not sure he got it too or something else. )
 
I'm sorry Kangaroo is not feeling well. Have you been giving him his insulin? I ask because some of the units columns in your spreadsheet lately, are empty. Have you been testing him for ketones?
Maybe if he has a bad tummy ache, some probiotics would help. We use FortiFlora for diarrhea, but I'm not sure you can get it in Canada. I buy it at my vets office, but you can also buy it online. I mainly use it for an appetite stimulant. I sprinkle a little on the food they don't want to eat, and then like magic they eat it all up. Not all cats like it, but most do.

I'm just offering you some support and hugs, right now.

I know when J.D. had diarrhea last time, the FortiFlora which is supposed to be for diarrhea didn't help him, and I had to take him to the vet and he was given some Flagyl (Metronidazole) and that helped him.

I'll keep Kangaroo in my prayers that he starts eating better for you, and his tummy feels better and normal poos, again.
 
hi susanna,

we can help you and kangaroo! don't worry.

first of all, you've mastered home testing - that's super! a little more information would help us help you.

do you have him eating a low carb canned food only diet? i see Wellness on his profile - are all of those flavors LC? what time does he eat in relation to his shots? is there any dry pet food in the house at all that he could possibly get into?

lantus and levemir dosing is decided by the low point in the cycle. we can absolutely help you get safely to a good dose for him. we need to see low points to know where to go with the dosing though. i think of a spreadsheet like a jigsaw puzzle. you don't need every piece of the puzzle in place to see what the picture looks like, but if you only have the corners or edge pieces, it's mighty hard to know what the picture is. with just preshot numbers, we only have edge pieces.

for some people, the cost of the strips is what keeps them from testing more. there are less expensive meters/strips than the Contour, if that's still what you're using. Would you like some ideas on that?

You don't have to check every hour, but one mid-cycle test both day cycle and night cycle are the absolute minimum for following the Tight Regulation Protocol. It's not nothing to do those, but the stats of cats going off of insulin when they are started on the TR protocol asap are pretty good - so it's an investment that often has a huge pay-off.

Am I reading the profile right that you're injecting him with methyl B12 daily? Most people give oral Zobaline to help with neuropathy. Is he still having symptoms of it?

Did you drop from 2.75u to 2.0 u on 12/28 because you were thinking he was getting too much insulin? or was there some other reason for the dose decrease?

You can take the 911 off - that's usually for cats in distress right now, ie, hypoglycemic or some other crisis.

we'll help you. you're in the right place now.
 
Here's your past posts: Totally Hopeless!!!

We link our previous posts so that we can see what has already been said and hopefully, give you the best help possible.

oops - i see it's an Accu-check Aviva that you use, not the Contour. my error. there are cheaper ones, however.
 
Julie -- Susanna is in Canada. Some of the less expensive meters/strips aren't available there.

A couple of thoughts...

First, though, are you following the Tight Regulation Protocol or the Start Low Go Slow approach? With the latter approach, you hold a dose for a week. I think you may want to hold the doses for less time. In other words, with Tight Regulation, doses are held for 3 days.

Is it possible for you to get some spot checks during both the AM and PM cycles? It would be useful if you could do this on a consistent basis. There's always a possibility that Kangaroo's numbers are dropping mid-cycle and you're seeing a bounce are pre-shot times.
 
Thanks for the fast reply.

Let me try to answer some of the questions.

Thanks Dyana, I will check if I can buy Fortiflora here if not I will order online. I gave Kangaroo some pumpkin, that usually helped the other kitties in this situation.

He eats Wellness can only (chicken and turkey) also home cooked turkey. He can't get in any dry food. He did several months ago when I forget to put the dog food away but not these days.

Yes, I dropped back the dosage because I thought he is getting too much insulin.
Yes, I am injecting him with methyl B12 daily. His symptoms improved lot but he sill have. I guess because of the high numbers.
The numbers shows before feeding and Getting the insulin. I couldn't do more often testing because I leave to work after feeding and I coming home just before the PM feeding again. ( i work 12 - 15 hours daily and I leave 45 minutes from home so I can't run home between. I will be off on Monday and will try to get more numbers. I think I didn't forget anything what was ask?
 
Thanks Julie to post /link my previous post. I am not too good in these and I didn't know how to do it.
 
people who work all day, like in your situation, can often get a before bed test. that can really help us know what's going on mid-cycle.

sienne, who posted above, has a cat that can drop hundreds of points and then zoom back up in between the preshots - and she's not the only one. that's why it's so important to somehow see what the dose is getting the cat to. in your post in Health, you mentioned your husband - is it possible for him or anyone else to check occasionally during the day cycle? if not, even getting the evening test in really helps.
 
Welcome! Hang in there we can help. I noticed you said you sometimes feed home cooked turkey. Oftentimes turkeys are preserved with sugars which might raise kitty's sugar levels. Many folks here do boiled chicken breasts instead. I hope his tummy troubles clear up soon.
 
I will try to make more readings when I off, when I work I leave early and usually his second feeding and shoot is when I come home night ( before My bedtime). no one is home and my husband in Europe for several months but even when he is home he couldn't do it. ( he is who used to snick Temptation to him- we used to have big fights on this)
I used to feed him and the other ones with chicken breast but I realized that if I buy a whole big turkey specially before holidays on sale would be lot cheaper. I feed several other kitties with it with other medical issues - and the chicken breast expensive for me. ( I/we have 41 kitties all has some kind of problem. I didn't know they use sugar as preservative on turkeys.
 
you have 41 kitties? :shock: well bless you for having such a big heart and taking care of them all! special needs and everything!

yes, the turkeys often have stuff injected to make them tender. sorry for the bad news! you might want to just stick to cat food then, where you can be certain about the carb content.
 
Well, I didn't give Kangaroo more turkey, but that is not showing in the numbers. Still the same high. I was able to do some testing between the shoots and this is what "drive me nuts" with three possibility: One day is nicely coming down/going up somewhat, Coming down till the next feeding/shooting time or just stay high with the little changes. I know it is a silly question but why??/!!
Should I increase his dosage?? I guess, any suggestion.. Please and Thank you
 
In all likelihood what you're seeing is that Kangaroo's liver and pancreas are reacting to either big drops in his numbers or lower range numbers. When a cat's BG drops into a lower range where he's not used to spending time or if there's a fast drop in numbers, the cat's liver and pancreas overreact. They release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormone. These two compounds act to shoot the BG numbers back up. We refer to this as a "bounce." Bounces can last for 72 hours. As your cat gets accustomed to spending time in lower, more normal BG numbers, the bouncing tends to subside.

I would probably increase the dose to 2.5u. It will be important to try to get spot checks as often as you can, though.
 
QUESTION?! I am happy and scarred at the same time. Kangaroo’s reading was 160 (9.8) this morning. Wows. Should I give him a regular shot, a reduced one or NOT at all. This happened just a couple times in the past; when his reading was under 200 - I didn't give him a shot. (I am leaving to work right after the shot and not getting home just around his night shot, no one else home to monitor him.) Today I was home till 3:00 pm I gave him a reduced 1.00 unit and even I was very busy but I did check on him and get a reading at+6 290.
I also get back to my original question. His numbers stay in the same area even I increasing his dosage. We are up with one unit, -constant bouncing? (a couple days down and a couple days up and this repeat itself. I just don’t understand and please forgive me for my un-patient attitude –I always feel guilty about this and that fact I am not able to pull his numbers down/lower and regulate him - since long time.
 
Welcome to FDMB!

In December I was in the same boat as you are so I know you are in the right place!

I didn't understand that my Scooters numbers would be different throughout the day and that was alright. He is not going to have the same number all day long. Sometimes it would be high and sometimes low like a curve. I also didn't understand that food would change the numbers as would medication.

You are in the right place and these wonderful folks are going to help you and Kangaroo if you let them guide you. It has taken 31 days but my Scooter is having a really good numbers day finally. I came on here and asked for helped and followed the advice of these great folks and Scooter is much much better. You can also complain and they understand to. :lol:

So don't go away and keep showing up and they will help Kangaroo too!

Linda
 
Hi Susanna!!

When you're still fairly new, or don't have a lot of data yet, we suggest that if you get a Pre-shot number you're not comfortable shooting, that you "Stall", DON'T feed, and post and ask for help so we can make sure someone is here to keep track of you. Our "no shot" number here starts at 150, so if you had a pre-shot of 160, we would have told you to go ahead and shoot the full dose and then check at +1 or +2 to see how he's doing.

Lantus needs to be given at the same dose, every 12 hours unless you get a number under 50 during any cycle(which would mean a reduction in dose) or if the nadirs are staying higher than we'd like, you'd increase every 3-5 days (6-10 cycles)

That first time you're shooting a lower number is scary! We've all been there! Eventually though, with lots of testing, you'll learn how your kitty responds to both insulin and food, and then you'll learn to go ahead and shoot lower and lower numbers. The idea is to eventually "shoot low to stay low"

I understand you can't get many mid-cycle tests during the week due to work. Is there any chance you might have a family member or friend/neighbor that could get those tests? If not, you can only do what you can do during the week and we understand that, but it makes it that much more important to get tests in during the PM cycle and on weekends.

His numbers stay in the same area even I increasing his dosage.
Click to expand...

Without getting more tests through your cycles, it's really impossible to say if you should increase his dose, but from what I see on his spreadsheet, when you CAN test, he's staying higher than we'd like for his nadir (the lowest part of the cycle) and probably does need more insulin, BUT without knowing how low he's going at night, it's impossible to know if he really needs more insulin, or he's bouncing off an un-seen low.

If you look at China's spreadsheet and find 1/9/14, you'll see in the PM cycle, she got down to 55....then if you look at the AM and PM cycles for 1/10/14, you'll see she's in the 300's...that's a bounce! If I hadn't tested the cycle before, and just assumed she needed more insulin because of the higher numbers she had for 1/10, she would have been overdosed. Bounces can last up to 72 hours, so when we know they might be bouncing, we don't want to increase their insulin. With Kangaroo, we just have no way of knowing if his high pre-shots are due to bouncing, or needing more insulin since we don't have those mid-cycle test results.

At this point, there's just no way to know for sure what's going on with Kangaroo, but we need to decide on a dose and hold it (unless the numbers tell us otherwise) and get as many tests in as you can.

Keep asking questions! We'll do what we can to help you and Kangaroo! (I'd love to know why you have a kitty named Kangaroo...sounds like it should be a good story...lol)
 
tiger-hobo said:
QUESTION?! We are up with one unit, -constant bouncing?

I always feel guilty about this and that fact I am not able to pull his numbers down/lower and regulate him - since long time.
Click to expand...

hi susanna! nice to see you again!

first, you don't need to feel guilty about not being able to get him regulated. it's a process. cats are difficult to regulate - people do the best they can. without being able to test more because of your schedule and life (is your husband still out of the country?) you may have to be satisfied with him being in higher than optimal numbers. I was home with punkin for the first couple of years he was diabetic, testing regularly, and i still couldn't succeed at getting him regulated. cats are difficult - and mine had a high dose condition to add to the fun.

i quoted your last post because i don't know what you mean by "we are up with one unit." can you explain what you mean?

it might seem like you're increasing the dose and not seeing any response, but the 160 this morning tells you that the dose is making a difference. if you were able to monitor, it would've been best to stay with the same dose. not being able to monitor, reducing was probably the safest option and a good choice.

as often as you are able to, if you can get any mid-cycle tests it will help us figure out what the dose is doing for Kangaroo!
 
Thanks Linda, Chris and Julie for the fast respond.

Let me go backwards with the answers.

Julie, what I meant “we are up with one unit” when I posted in January we were at 2.25 U and I was asking if I should increase it –Sienne suggested to do that and I did at the same time, since that I was increasing it 0.25 U weekly and now we up with 1 unit – right now he is getting 3.25 U. AND that is why I said we still up in the same high area. Yes, he has one or two low read, but then goes back up those high readings. (I know I am un – patient)
I will be off for a couple days after next week –least from my full time work so I definitely run curves and get middle numbers too.

Chris, regarding Kangaroo’s name, Well, ( in a short story, because I like to talk about them and I usually lost in action and forget everything else) - on a cold, wintery afternoon we were able to bring in / save two black kitties from outside –whom we were feeding since awhile but we couldn't touch them - they were skin and bone and the next morning one of them had 4 babies. (Junior, Kormos, Shadow and Kangaroo). We usually try to give them a name by the look, personality or situation etc.. We gave this special cat that name because of the way he sits. Ever since he was a kitten, he would sit like a mother kangaroo carrying her babies in her front pouch. When he was young, his back legs looked a lot longer too so he resembled a kangaroo. Eventually, his body grew into proportion but his unusual sitting habit remained. I as a bad “mom” even tried to fix his sitting habit but he set back as a kangaroo, so that name just stacked with him. Since he has a neuropathy he lost lot from that pose but better days he still sits like that.
 
Susanna --

I really, really want to encourage you to get some spot checks. I'm very uncomfortable giving any kind of dose suggestions without some mid-cycle checks. It's entirely possible that numbers are lower toward the middle of the cycle and bouncing up by your shot times.
 
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