I can't do this.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I understand quite well why the cat is ravenous!! We've already established that cat is up to 5 units BID and still responding poorly. I believe you were one of the members who originally suggested I might have skipped over my optimal dose, remember? So yes, she probably does need more insulin, or one of a million other variables to change right now...

I need an Advil.
 
Meya14 said:
Alex,
My cat was diagnosed this past summer, and having 2 cats I can sympathize with the food situation. My other cat really got pushed aside when Max was hungry and crying, and hogging all the food. I tried all wet food, but still, he eats a faster than her and so we compromise with half wet, half dry. Not ideal, but it works for us.

Max had blood sugars around 400-500 for almost the first 6 months. We were up to 7 units BID and still no results or changes.
Also being a nurse, like you, I was VERY concerned for his long-term quality of life since it seemed like he wasn't responding to the insulin.

When we first took him in when he was diagnosed, I suspected that Max had some bad teeth. However, when the vet looked she said they didn't look too bad. About a month ago, his breath got real bad and one of his teeth was bleeding. Apparently he had an abscess that we couldn't see and probably had it for months. As soon as the tooth was pulled, EVERYTHING got better. His sugars are in the normal ranges, we are down to 4 units BID and still going down. Not eating/peeing/crying/puking all the time.

As stressful and costly as the initial period was, I'm very glad I stuck with it as I'm now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel that I didn't think was there. I can see that Max will be just fine, and things are getting more routine, and Max is back to his happy, playful self.

Hang in there if you can.
Click to expand...

Dang. Fay had a TON of teeth removed 3 years ago. She still has some remaining but very few. Vet said they "weren't great but ok" (whatever that means, lol). I do wonder...

Did Max's original CBC show anything that would indicate the dental disease?
 
In the beginning, until they are regulated, they are ravenous all the time because their body is unable to process the food they are eating. You want to feed as much as they want during this time, until they begin to regulate. I switched to LC canned and added water to each feeding, and we also did the mini meals spread throughout the day which is easier on their pancreas.
I understand the difficulty in separating from your other cat to feed. I had a civvie who was a die hard kibble addict, I began feeding him in the garage. I had to let him out there to when he wanted to eat. He had access to the LC canned I fed my diabetic, but wasn't very interested. I would put a serving for each on opposite sides of my kitchen island (or you can do it across the room, or in a separate room, and would have to stand hover sometime so my diabetic would not try to eat his brothers serving after scarfing his own.
I used catsicles (freeze the LC canned w/ 40/60 water to make cubes or in a small container) and leave these out to thaw when I left. They take a couple hours to thaw. This is another way to help spread things out if you don't want to try the auto feeder.
As my diabetic kitty regulated, he naturally began to need less to eat. I really never parceled or was that exact. But it probably eventually leveled out to 1 - 1 1/2 cans day. I kept boiled chicken or freeze dried chicken around for snacks. My FD kitty was overweight but lost some lbs before being diagnosed and once switched him to LC canned for his FD, maintained the weight he had lost with me feeding him pretty much when he wanted. The added moisture helped his overall health, but also helps them to feel satiated.

We are very good at solving problems, please let us help you with this. It can seem so overwhelming at first, but really is quite manageable. We followed the TR protocol and it worked very well for my Hank. There was some stress trying to figure things out in the beginning, and trying to keep up when he was running down the dosing scale, but the payoff was great.

I have not read through your threads to know your whole story, or which protocol you are following, but please let us help you. These are some of the smartest, most experienced people you will ever meet, with years of FD experience, we can help you get on track. Many many do this with full time jobs....it does not have to ruin your life. For most of us it only deepens your bond and you end up falling more in love with them.
 
Max's CBC did not show any infection either when he was diagnosed, or just prior to getting his teeth done. It was hard to get a good look in his mouth so both I and the vet missed it. Maybe not the 100% cause of the diabetes, but sure a barrier for him to get regulated. Wish I would have caught it months sooner! If she already had many teeth removed, she may have pretty severe periodontal disease/auto-immune periodontal disease. Some cats are actually allergic in a way to even the tiniest bit of tartar and it sets off an auto-immune process that wreaks their teeth and gums and can cause kidney issues and diabetes. A dental might cost a bit but at least in our case it's saving us a lot of $ cause of the lower insulin. And Max is much better.

Other infections can cause similar BS regulation problems, so a urinalysis is probably something you'd want to make sure is ok too.

I home tested at random times during the day, and NEVER did he get anywhere near normal BS before we had the teeth done. (always 400-500ish). I'm not sure that "going past the right dose" can actually cause high and flat glucose curves. The somogyi effect has been shown in a lot of newer research not to be a real thing. I think a bounce may be possible, but what I saw at first compared to now when I give him too much insulin, there is NO WAY we went past his dose in the beginning. If I give him too much now, his blood sugar drops like a rock, and stays there.
 
Last edited:
I noticed there was a big jump from the 2U to 4.5 u not long ago. I saw reference to 'missing data'..but that is a very big jump.
Have you been on the Lantus forum to get help with dosing?
I have not studied your history, but 5U is a quite high dose. It is possible you passed by her correct dose and she is bouncing. I would see if you can get some help with getting the dose fine tuned and see if you can get some results. I know how hard it is to want to see them doing better and in better numbers. There is a lot of wisdom there..and some have seen it all so are great at helping with even challenging cats.... I hope you will try that.
 
bettyandhank said:
I noticed there was a big jump from the 2U to 4.5 u not long ago. I saw reference to 'missing data'..but that is a very big jump.
Have you been on the Lantus forum to get help with dosing?
I have not studied your history, but 5U is a quite high dose. It is possible you passed by her correct dose and she is bouncing. I would see if you can get some help with getting the dose fine tuned and see if you can get some results. I know how hard it is to want to see them doing better and in better numbers. There is a lot of wisdom there..and some have seen it all so are great at helping with even challenging cats.... I hope you will try that.
Click to expand...

We never went up by more than 0.5U every few days, or 1U after 7-10 days. I just don't have the blood sugar data from that time. There was NOT a jump from 2-4.5 U. Again, this is my frustration--I think at this point, finally seeing some reductions, we've ruled out "skipping over optimal dose." But as you well note, 5U twice a day is quite high, so that's what this sucks so much. So it's not just that the cat is minimally responsive, it's that she's minimally responsive with a LOT of insulin.
 
Alex, I am so sorry that this is such a stressful time for you. I certainly do understand exactly how you are feeling and what you are saying. For some kitties, progress is very quick... for some, it's not. For some kitties, remission will come... for some, it will not. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees. You've been at this for a little over a month, now. I know it seems like "furever", but relatively speaking, it's not. Perhaps giving a little longer try might give you and Fayaway some progress that you can't see right now. I know how having a diabetic kitty can rearrange and restrict our personal lives. There's nothing easy about it, especially at first. It's a real balancing act, to say the least. But please remember that Fayaway didn't choose to become a diabetic kitty, and she certainly never wanted to put such a great responsibility on her human "bean". Just do the best you can do for her. It doesn't have to be perfect. And whatever you decide to do, treat her with the love and respect she deserves. Hugs to both of you. :bighug:
 
Blamethecats and Hannah said:
Alex, I am so sorry that this is such a stressful time for you. I certainly do understand exactly how you are feeling and what you are saying. For some kitties, progress is very quick... for some, it's not. For some kitties, remission will come... for some, it will not. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees. You've been at this for a little over a month, now. I know it seems like "furever", but relatively speaking, it's not. Perhaps giving a little longer try might give you and Fayaway some progress that you can't see right now. I know how having a diabetic kitty can rearrange and restrict our personal lives. There's nothing easy about it, especially at first. It's a real balancing act, to say the least. But please remember that Fayaway didn't choose to become a diabetic kitty, and she certainly never wanted to put such a great responsibility on her human "bean". Just do the best you can do for her. It doesn't have to be perfect. And whatever you decide to do, treat her with the love and respect she deserves. Hugs to both of you. :bighug:
Click to expand...

Thanks @Blamethecats and Hannah, very kind words
 
I'm jumping in too.
I agree that your dose may be higher than it should be.... the increases were really fast.
And your difficult life makes it harder for you to get more data.... ( that pm cycle specifically) to really know what's going on numberwise.


Secondly , I'm seen cats here that stay on high and black and red.....for months.....
for Fay, she is at least seeing some yellows.... that's a good sign that she will get better.
That's a sign to me that she has a decent chance at remission.
There have been cats here on the juice for a couple of years and then , suddenly things improve.... and they make it to remission.
There is hope.

IMHO, you should get rid of the hill's food.....

make up your mind on all wet or half and half.... and if you keep any dry around, pick one of these..... Wysong Epigen 90 or
Young Again 0 Carb (internet only)

and come to the lantus and levemir forum and start anew.

Once you get rid of the high carb dry. ( the hill's) , you will definitely want to adjust the dose down..... because when there is a major food change....
to a low carb..... you can easily see numbers drop as much as 100 lower. Each cat is different so it depends on your cat.

That is very important with a total change in carbs.


I'm one of the lucky ones who got remission quickly.... I caught it early and I listened to my great friends here who helped me learn as fast as I could.
 
Ditto what Rhiannon said. Alex why don't you start a daily thread in Lantus/levemir forum? You have the basics down, SS, home testing, etc.. There are many experienced caregivers there, including a couple who have or have had kitties with high dose conditions (which could/ or may not be a consideration in your case), but point is there are enough folks there who can help deduct what is really going on. Perhaps you are on too high a dose, perhaps it is food management that needs some tweaking, ..what you want is to get on the right path so you can see some results. It's like anything else, the results help motivate you. I think that if you can start a thread there with an overview and some of her backstory, and link your past threads, then get some feedback and more eyes on you.
I got my kitty into remission following their guidance, and I had NO CLUE what we were doing when it was going on. It was a lot of work at points because you cannot control everything, and there are times when they ARE making progress you have to stay on top of it. But it is so worth it! We all have moments of despair, overwhelm, confusion..all of us. THAT is why this board is so amazing, there is someone who has been there before to support and help you back on track. Please give that a shot..there are some wise advice-givers among us. Try posting each day so there are eyes on you and let's see if we can figure out what's going on with Faye...you will feel better when she feels better.
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
I'm jumping in too.
I agree that your dose may be higher than it should be.... the increases were really fast.
And your difficult life makes it harder for you to get more data.... ( that pm cycle specifically) to really know what's going on numberwise.


Secondly , I'm seen cats here that stay on high and black and red.....for months.....
for Fay, she is at least seeing some yellows.... that's a good sign that she will get better.
That's a sign to me that she has a decent chance at remission.
There have been cats here on the juice for a couple of years and then , suddenly things improve.... and they make it to remission.
There is hope.

IMHO, you should get rid of the hill's food.....

make up your mind on all wet or half and half.... and if you keep any dry around, pick one of these..... Wysong Epigen 90 or
Young Again 0 Carb (internet only)

and come to the lantus and levemir forum and start anew.

Once you get rid of the high carb dry. ( the hill's) , you will definitely want to adjust the dose down..... because when there is a major food change....
to a low carb..... you can easily see numbers drop as much as 100 lower. Each cat is different so it depends on your cat.

That is very important with a total change in carbs.


I'm one of the lucky ones who got remission quickly.... I caught it early and I listened to my great friends here who helped me learn as fast as I could.
Click to expand...
Hi Rhiannon,

She hasn't been on the Hills in weeks at this point. I really wish I could compile everything in one document for everyone, because I've talked multiple times about her switch to wet food, low-carb :-/ as well as here Lantus increases.

The dose increases really were done in a conscientious manner--I promise. We didn't increase by 0.25U until recently, but we were waiting for at LEAST 6 cycles for every 0.5U bump, which is per TR protocol with nadirs over 300. It just isn't documented that way in my SS because I was looking more at weekly nadirs/semi-curves at that point and didn't get to FDMB before last week.
 
Last edited:
bettyandhank said:
Ditto what Rhiannon said. Alex why don't you start a daily thread in Lantus/levemir forum? You have the basics down, SS, home testing, etc.. There are many experienced caregivers there, including a couple who have or have had kitties with high dose conditions (which could/ or may not be a consideration in your case), but point is there are enough folks there who can help deduct what is really going on. Perhaps you are on too high a dose, perhaps it is food management that needs some tweaking, ..what you want is to get on the right path so you can see some results. It's like anything else, the results help motivate you. I think that if you can start a thread there with an overview and some of her backstory, and link your past threads, then get some feedback and more eyes on you.
I got my kitty into remission following their guidance, and I had NO CLUE what we were doing when it was going on. It was a lot of work at points because you cannot control everything, and there are times when they ARE making progress you have to stay on top of it. But it is so worth it! We all have moments of despair, overwhelm, confusion..all of us. THAT is why this board is so amazing, there is someone who has been there before to support and help you back on track. Please give that a shot..there are some wise advice-givers among us. Try posting each day so there are eyes on you and let's see if we can figure out what's going on with Faye...you will feel better when she feels better.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll try to post every day. For what it's worth though, for those of us who cannot test their cats all day, every day, it's not so helpful to hear that people "need more numbers." This forum is fantastic but also a bit overwhelming about everything I may be doing wrong--well not wrong, per se, but adjustments I should make. And I feel often like I am repeating myself over and over again because my previous threads don't connect, which is a bummer.

But I appreciate the tips, we've been on the TR Protocol for over a week now and have switched to a low carb wet food. I do sincerely appreciate your reply and will work my way over to the Lantus forum. I did post something there a few days ago about AMPSs being over 400 still and possibility of insulin resistance.
 
Alex&Fayaway said:
When people say, "it gets easier" do they mean that they 1) get used to giving insulin and worry less about having a cat with a chronic condition? 2) they mean that their cat eventually achieved remission and all is well? or 3) cat isn't regulated but clinical signs are down so it feels like less of a hassle? I'd like to know what gets easier... :-/
Click to expand...

all of the above happens - giving insulin and testing becomes incredibly easy and doesn't take much time at all. Some cats go off of insulin, some don't. my cat had acromegaly - he never went off of insulin, even after we had it treated with radiation, but he had a great quality of life until the last 3 days. Cats with acromegaly can be difficult to get regulated - the tumor that causes it can pulsate in its hormone output, which means that they go up and they go down - or not. just depends on the cat. He got up to 15.5u of insulin per shot before the radiation.

There are tricks for keeping the cost down - i bought 4 boxes of pens on Craigslist from an adult daughter whose 90 yr old diabetic father had passed away. I listened to the story, i met her, and it all seemed legit and the insulin was fine. You have to be cautious, there, however.

While his blood sugar still had highs, true, he didn't die from diabetes or from acromegaly. We think he had cancer and he was really relatively healthy for a senior cat with a chronic disease until that last week.

As you get closer to the right dose, her symptoms will improve to the point where you may not see anything to say she's diabetic except the syringes on the counter.

After listening to your story and looking at Fay's ss, I don't really think she's overdosed. People will continue to suggest it to you because no one is going to go back and read all the previous posts, but you explained it well and i suspect it's in the ballpark. It's only "quite high" for a regular diabetic cat. For a cat with a high dose condition, it's not high at all. Now, saying that, I have no idea if Fay is a high dose cat or not - I'm just trying to put it in perspective and let you know that there are reasons for some cats needing more insulin than others.

If you want certainty on her dose, you'd drop back to a weight-based amount and hold the dose there for several days to let the counterregulatory hormones clear out. That choice can only be yours, but if you want to do that, we can certainly guide you in it.

There isn't anyone here who doesn't understand your frustration and discouragement Alex. What we can tell you, from this end of the Sugar Dance, is that it does get easier. :bighug:
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
all of the above happens - giving insulin and testing becomes incredibly easy and doesn't take much time at all. Some cats go off of insulin, some don't. my cat had acromegaly - he never went off of insulin, even after we had it treated with radiation, but he had a great quality of life until the last 3 days. Cats with acromegaly can be difficult to get regulated - the tumor that causes it can pulsate in its hormone output, which means that they go up and they go down - or not. just depends on the cat. He got up to 15.5u of insulin per shot before the radiation.

There are tricks for keeping the cost down - i bought 4 boxes of pens on Craigslist from an adult daughter whose 90 yr old diabetic father had passed away. I listened to the story, i met her, and it all seemed legit and the insulin was fine. You have to be cautious, there, however.

While his blood sugar still had highs, true, he didn't die from diabetes or from acromegaly. We think he had cancer and he was really relatively healthy for a senior cat with a chronic disease until that last week.

As you get closer to the right dose, her symptoms will improve to the point where you may not see anything to say she's diabetic except the syringes on the counter.

After listening to your story and looking at Fay's ss, I don't really think she's overdosed. People will continue to suggest it to you because no one is going to go back and read all the previous posts, but you explained it well and i suspect it's in the ballpark. It's only "quite high" for a regular diabetic cat. For a cat with a high dose condition, it's not high at all. Now, saying that, I have no idea if Fay is a high dose cat or not - I'm just trying to put it in perspective and let you know that there are reasons for some cats needing more insulin than others.

If you want certainty on her dose, you'd drop back to a weight-based amount and hold the dose there for several days to let the counterregulatory hormones clear out. That choice can only be yours, but if you want to do that, we can certainly guide you in it.

There isn't anyone here who doesn't understand your frustration and discouragement Alex. What we can tell you, from this end of the Sugar Dance, is that it does get easier. :bighug:
Click to expand...

Tremendous note, thank you so much!! Glad we have Punkin watching over us :)
 
You get the pre-tests for safe to shoot decisions.
Nadir checks can be a catch as catch can proposition such as days off, or sometimes setting an alarm in the middle of the night when you've changed a dose and are nearing the 3 day period where a new dose should be stabilizing and might be more likely to affect how low the glucose is going.
Sometimes, you hold off on dose changes until you can line them up with time to do more monitoring.

It can begin to feel like one of those convoluted strategy games!
 
Try posting here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

There is something we do to connect your previous threads for that very reason.... we add a link to yesterday's post at the top of your today's post (see the little chain link icon on the comment taskbar?..just insert the previous thread URL there)

You will WITHOUT a doubt hear things you don't want to hear. There are tried and true things that once you know they work you want to pass it on. BUT everybody is differnt and every CAT is different (ECID) so there are always modifications or adjustments to make for a given situation. There are people doing TR with 2 jobs, or school and a job, with kids, etc.. I was on my own so no help with any of the tasks, so I get it. You figure out how to make it work- WITH HELP and guidance.
Some people are testaholics, and will test more than you can ever conceive. But testing isn't about TR..it is needed regardless or protocol to keep your kitty safe, and to be able to see what a given dose of insulin is doing in your cat. In order to know that (so you can make proper adjustments to find the dose) you have to test. No one can advise you on dose without being able to see what is going on. BUT that may mean a spot check at different times on different days, maybe more on a weekend for instance...
Read the sticky at top of Lantus forum re: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/sticky-can-i-do-tr-with-a-full-time-job-yes.129378/

It is likely you will hear some things over and over again, because that is what works. And now that I am just reading you just recently switched to LC a week ago... you are sure to start seeing the positive effects of that..it's only been a week. I will tell you switching to LC changed everything for us. And he stayed on it and remained off insulin and diet controlled the rest of his life. It's really how all our kitties should eat. I am finally making progress with even my die hard kibble addict civvie after all these years. Turns out he doesn't hate all LC, he just doesn't like the natural health food stuff I fed his brother. He loves by-products with unknown parts ;)...so FF and friskies it is- and now he eats low carb! I was the one that had to adjust! The other thing about posting daily is we get to know you and your kitty, her patterns and history, so makes it easier to make suggestions and guide you. Hang in there...it will get easier- I promise!
 
Last edited:
Thanks @bettyandhank . The way I see it, with the cat so high, it still doesn't make a ton of sense to do regular, throughout-the-day curves, or even pre-shot tests--it would be such an anomaly to have her low enough to merit a reduction when she is still regularly in the 300-400s pre-shot. Once she gets more regulated, I 100% see the value in testing before every shot, and periodically throughout. Does that make sense?

Right now, we are still trying to find an amount of insulin that works. If that's even possible.

Thanks for the info. I am exhausted, but will work on posting to the Lantus thread. Perhaps once we are more regularly seeing lower numbers. Again, that's when I really see the value of testing. Right now, I'm tied to useless numbers that simply tell me that cat is barely responding. I may just try to work on a weekly or bi-weekly curve to see what's up, and scrap the rest until she is regulated. Then regular AMPS and PMPS testing for SURE. Here's hoping we reach that point.
 
I think waiting for lower numbers to start posting for daily support is exactly backwards.... If you start getting daily guidance, you will more likely start seeing the results you want much sooner. You may have to trust others who may see things you cannot. That's what happened to us. I hope you will....
 
And yes, @bettyandhank it is heartening to know that people do this with a full time job.

Now a full time job with a day that starts and ends at completely different times every day, with no two work weeks the same? If I manage that, I'll make an addition to the sticky thread :woot:
 
This is my concern with this board...your note makes it sound like if I don't have an opportunity to test frequently and ask for guidance all day long, I'm not doing right by my cat and "seeing the results that I want." This is preposterous, I've looked at this with a thousand angles over the last 5.5 weeks!

Also, isn't there some inherent guidance in the TR protocol? Which kitty is now following... And then for all the variances, we look at the collective, sage wisdom of the FDMB community? Or am I really misunderstanding? I cannot just be tied to this computer and my cat all day, I'm sorry. @bettyandhank
 
I think you said it right...there is inherent guidance in the protocol....then for variances (nuances, issues, questions,) we look at the sage wisdom of the community.
I wasn't on the board every minute but was grateful to have a place to run things past someone when I was so uncertain, didn't test around the clock, but I feel my outcome would have not been what it was had we not found our way here. It was the help we got from those that came before. I was clueless then, it got clearer in the the rear view mirror if you know what I mean. I feel your angst and only want to extend encouragement... I won't have all the answers, but as you said, its a collective.. I hope you at least feel a bit better and trust it will get easier before long
 
Last edited:
Alex&Fayaway said:
Is he just regulated now or in remission?
Click to expand...
Right now he is just regulated at .25 units of insulin but I think he still stands a good chance of going into remission, .25 units of insulin BID is a big drop from 15 units of ProZinc BID and 6.5 units of Levemir, when I got under 1 unit I wanted to throw a party.
 
Oh wow, 0.25 is excellent!!

Dweezil is on 1 unit but he needs a bit more...we're not quite sure yet how much more. We need more blood glucose readings.
 
Alex

I'm going to jump in here as well, and granted I haven't read all the way through the ton of responses you have already gotten. But I can understand the not being tied to the computer or your diabetic cat every waking moment, because I can't either. And I have 3 diabetic cats (2 in remission and 1 insulin dependent) but I also have a husband, a house, a large dog that needs to be walked 3 times a day, and 12 non-diabetic cats.

My day starts at 6 a.m and ends somewhere around midnight on good days when I drop into bed. There are days that I feel like I run a combination of an animal hospital and a daycare. I for one don't follow TR with my cats, never have, but I still have 2 that are in remission. And here is something I bet you never thought you would hear....My 3 diabetics weren't mine before they became diabetic. That's right I have adopted all 3 of them AFTER they were diabetic.

Yes, this is a complicated, frustrating and some days a downright depressing, sleep deprived disease. But it is worth it in the long run. My beloved Muse only lived 3 weeks after she was diagnosed as a diabetic, at first I was crushed because frankly I felt I killed her, as she died of an overdose and going into hypoglycemia overnight. It took me awhile to realize that I was only trying to help her, and I was doing the best I could with the knowledge that I had to work with at the time. So I researched, I asked these folks a thousand questions and probably drove a lot of them bonkers. But I was determined that this disease was never going to rob me again of an animal I loved. And so far (knock wood) it hasn't I have lost 1 to cancer, 1 to a fall, and 1 to a vet sending her into DKA and not catching she was anemic but none to diabetes itself.

I grew up with diabetes as my mother was a type 1, so perhaps because of that I am a little more casual about how I treat my cats, I don't freak out if I'm 15-30 minutes late with a shot, I don't test a hundred times a day, but I do test at the very least before shots and grab random spot checks. But don't sweat it if I can't get more than preshots for a couple of days. If I have a free day I'll run a curve or a mini curve just to fill in data that I have missed. I've completely missed shots because life has just plain gotten in the way. And I would rather skip the shot and let my cat be high for the day, than risk them going to low. You can recover from a missed shot here and there as long as you are trying your best that is all that matters.

Because I feed 15 and they all eat what my diabetics eat I feed them just plain Friskies Pate style canned food. Now because most days I'm home with mine all day long mine have scheduled mealtimes and eat 4 times a day. But the only ones I'm religious about are the ones at shot times. If I'm running late for their lunch, they eat when I get here. If I have to be away when it's time for their before bed snack I will either freeze their meals and put them out frozen so they can nibble while it defrosts or they eat when I get here.

Now when I first adopted that pretty girl that's my Avatar she was a mess, her previous owner had left her untreated for nearly a year, she was a 14 lb cat that only weighed 4 lbs, she was so matted that she was literally living in a straight jacket of her own fur, she was walking on both her hocks and her wrists, and was so dehydrated that her little ears were shoe-leather. And she was ravenous! I actually stuck her in a large dog kennel and as quickly as she would finish a can of food I would shove another one at her. I started her on insulin, I started testing her at home, and at one point we were up to 1.5u of Lantus and her numbers were great, she was gaining weight, her appetite was back to normal, but her personality wasn't she was tense, high-strung and downright vicious, to me, to my husband, to my other animals. I cried buckets over her and the thought I was going to either have to put her down or rehome her again. Then we switched insulins, I put her on Levemir, and all of a sudden I had a fluffy purring ball of love. 3 years later this coming April she is sweet, loving, beautiful and very loved member of our family. Her dose has steadily dropped until right now she varies between 0.05 to 0.10u of Levemir just she will always be an insulin dependent diabetic, she is a brittle diabetic.

At first yes, you test a lot, but it doesn't have to be a lot every day, day in and day out. Really 3 tests a day maybe 4 works, with an occasional curve here and there before making dose adjustments just to fill in missing data points works. Your two preshots, one spot check during the day and a Lights Out before bed. I was working full time when I adopted Autumn, I would test at preshot, before I walked out the door for work about +2 after her morning shot, again when I first walked back in the door around +9ish, her pm preshot and then right before I would turn in for the night around her pm +3-+4. If she was just chilling with me on the couch while I watched t.v. in the evenings I would grab a test and then on the weekends or a day off I would test like a mad woman. I always looked at remission as just icing on the cake, if it happened it happened but I didn't push for it, healthy and happy even if insulin dependent has always been fine with me. Autumn is regulated, she is happy and for an 18 year old cat she is extremely healthy ancient girl. She cuddles in bed with me every night, she loves on her furry siblings and puts them in their place when they get out of line. So what if she gets two shots a day, and gets her ear stuck a few times a day, she actually comes looking to be tested now because she knows it is the one time during the day that she has mom all to herself and she gets a yummy treat that none of the other cats get.

Hang in there Hon, it can and does get better, because trust me if it didn't I would have never adopted 4 more after losing my first girl, not with 12 healthy and happy nondiabetics in the house. Out of those 4 that I have adopted the only regret that I've ever had was that I trusted the wrong vet with my little Musette, and he mishandled her and killed her. And when my current herd thins I will do it all over again. These little extra sweet kids get under your skin and become fairly addictive after awhile, and I can truly say, I would miss this dance if I didn't have at least one in the house. The rewards so far out weigh the lack of sleep at times. They constantly amaze me about how resilient they are and how far they can come back for the brink of death. You learn to appreciate every small victory, the first time they purr again, the first time they start walking on their toes, the first jump on the bed, the counter top, or the window sill. And because all mine are adopted the first time I see the healthy cat personality. And as much as my caring for them changes them, it changes me. I have learned to be more organized, more empathetic, more compassionate, and far less selfish of my "me time" We have gone from us and our pets to Us and our FAMILY. Just our family now has 4 feet and wear cheap fur coats. lol

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
I too am still trying to regulate my cat and its been just over a month. My vet does not want to switch from Caninsulin and since I live in a small town there is only one vet so we are trying to regulate on Canisulin. Right know we are shooting 2.5 units but as you can tell buy Oyster's sheet he is still extremely high preshot (seems to be never below 500). I work a full time job and live half n hour away from home so. I also travel 2 hours on Tuesday and Friday and Saturday to take my daughter to horses lessons, skating and ballet. Its so tuff to be back home in that 12 hour period to do the second shot. And there is no such thing as having a nice meal out as I have to get home. I cant test more frequently than preshots on the weekday. Even a post testing after the pm puts me to bed at 11pm which is too late for this bird. I do try to get my tests in over the weekend (I figure better than nothing). Oyster is ravenous. And he likes his kibbles. I have to have some out. He panics if there is none then scarfs and barfs. I find a 1/2 can of wet in the morning then when Im home after work on the 4 days I can be I give him 1/4 of raw chicken breast then his other 1/2 can at night I can curve some of his hunger so he's not at the food dish constantly. Its what works for us. We have to have crunchies. Not ideal but it works. Now they fight over the 3 water bowls I have. Like seriously!

I know its hard and I too am on my own as my other half works away from home 3 weeks out of the month and is deathly scared of needles. Ive had people say why bother, its just a cat or your putting him thru to much but I keep thinking once I get him regulated I t will be worth it and he wont always be the food piss machine he is now.

I guess all I can say is hugs to you in this trying time. I hope it will get better and to you it will al be worth it. Perhaps try some raw or boiled chicken to take the edge of Fays crunchy needs. Im sure your kitty appreciates that you are doing everything you can for him to make him better (too bad cats cant talk...maybe he's even apologize for being a whiney jerk :p)
 
Last edited:
Alex&Fayaway said:
I'm in Denver right now, and the ground is hard is a rock. I just don't see burial as a solid option. Maybe if a few warm days come I can dig. But it would be challenging.
Click to expand...
I'm in Vail. My cat got diagnosed mid Nov. I have 2 cats beside the diabetic boy. It is beyond frustrating often. I was so busy at work because it was approaching Christmas and I didn't have the money and I had a lousy vet who was of no help but who went ballistic when I asked for my records and no one will eat the same food and one female had only eaten dry food for 14 years and one female developed a bladder infection on Dec. 20 so was peeing blood and the diabetic male is over weight but won't eat low fat and I've bought every kind of can food it seems like and there are only small pet stores here so I have to order cases of food from Amazon that can't be returned and the two females are borderline kidney cats so need low phos food and I was sick the entire month of Nov so still paying those bills and my doc put me on hormones so I could barely stop crying and then I found a big lump on one female's belly after she had lost 3 pounds from the diet change and bladder infection which made me realize that my cats are my family and I signed up for the long haul not just the previous 13 years of their lives when they were healthy! But that's just me.
Denver is bound to have cheaper options and I bet your cat could even get adopted?
 
Michelangelo was diagnosed at 6 months old as most likely Type 1 (meaning he'll never go into remission). Everyone told me that because he was so young, I hadn't become attached to him so I should just PTS and get a new one. Why invest in a sick kitten that will be sick for the rest of his life? It broke my heart that to everyone else, he was replaceable. To me, I was going to give this kitten a fighting chance and it's been quite a fight.

You can check his spreadsheet and see that Michelangelo was impossible to regulate for the first year and a half while on Lantus. (I was finally able to get him regulated when I switched to Levemir.) He was a feral rescue kitten so home-testing took us months to get down instead of weeks. He hated his shots because they hurt him every time (the Lantus sting) and he'd jerk away, whine, cry, and even bite or swipe me so I ended up giving fur shots a few times a week. I also dealt with him vomiting after most every meal before I discovered he was allergic to red meat. I let him truly free-feed once (just kept refilling his food dish every time it was empty) and, at 4.5 pounds and 6 months old, he consumed over 650 calories in one day. Voracious appetite...hell, he was licking his own poop for nutrients at one point! After that, I ignored the calories on the can for the most part and started free-feeding him within reason (around 250-300 calories a day for a kitten his size). His appetite settled down, he started gaining weight (which he desperately needed), and he no longer cried constantly for food.

Feed Fayaway a bit more food than you are now and feed her a bit more often. Don't rely on the calorie counts; instead rely on weight gain/loss. Henry (my non-diabetic) is 9 pounds compared to Mikey's 15 pounds. Henry eats more than Mikey because Henry is twice as active as Mikey. If I based their food off of the amount they're "supposed to" eat, Henry would be starving. Instead, I weigh them regularly to make sure they're not gaining/losing weight.

When did things start looking up for us? Probably the first time I took him into the vet again about a month or two after his diagnosis and the vet said that Mikey was the best looking diabetic he'd ever seen; in fact, he was healthier than many non-diabetics my vet sees. I was shocked because I'd been trying so hard for the past month to get him regulated and I knew everything that was going wrong. I knew Mikey's numbers were terrible. I knew he was an anxious and nervous little kitten who hated his shots. I knew that he only put up with testing if the stars aligned to his liking. Yet the vet was saying he looked good?? That's when my vet pointed out all the positives: he didn't have diabetic neuropathy, he had no ketones, his coat had filled out and was soft and silky, his whiskers were growing back, he had put on almost 2 pounds since diagnosis, and all his blood work came back normal (except the glucose, of course).

I had to get out of my head everything I wasn't "doing right" and everything that "wasn't working" and realize that regardless of home-testing, most people don't even manage to give shots twice a day, much less 12 hours apart every time. Simply sticking to a 12-hour shot schedule is doing better than most. Home-testing is better than most. Low carb food is better than most. Every little thing you do is already going to be better than most. Why? Because you cared enough to join FDMB in the first place. Things might not be perfect, but every step you take gets you closer. "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." - Aristotle
 
Last edited:
Thank you ALL so much. I had to take a bit of a break from FDMB but am heartened, once again, to see the outreach and response of you all. I have not been testing Fay aggressively over the last two days because I needed a break. We are at 5.25U currently and I still think we need increase and time. I had scheduled her to be PTS on Monday but I did cancel. I am putting my trust in you all and in this cat. We will see how it goes.

I'm sure I'll post again relatively soon, but I'm trying to take care of myself as well. I do so very much appreciate the information, support, love, and good vibes. I'll try to respond more individually when I can. Thanks everybody <3
 
So glad to hear you are having a bit more positive day, Alex. Yes, we need to take care of ourselves as well as our diabetic fur babies. They can tell when we are stressing out and not feeling well ... I'm pretty sure of it. And I honestly do think there is hope for your Fay. Her numbers are up there a bit, but I've seen a lot worse, and you're pretty much just getting started at this. Keep working on those positive vibes. There will likely still be upsetting times, but I've found with Hannah that those bad days are eventually followed by at least one good day... and that in itself makes it all worthwhile to keep trying. Hugs. :bighug:
 
Alex, I'm glad you are alright, I was getting worried about you. Yes take care of yourself, do what you can within reason for Fayaway, & when you're feeling less stressed come back & let us know how you're doing xx
 
One other little "magical" tip I learned regarding the food: add water to it, if you're not already doing so. Unregulated diabetics are thirsty! And since cats don't have a "normal" thirst mechanism because they get most of their water from eating their prey in the wild, they're more likely to eat when they're hungry thirsty instead of drink water.

I add about a half can of water to a full can of food, as much water as they'll allow before turning their nose up at it. I mash it into a thick soup or milkshake consistency. Sometimes I add too much water and I have to sprinkle their food with parmesan or treat dust, but the extra water really helps satiate them and fill them up so they're not as hungry.
 
Last edited:
Alex, I wanted to make a suggestion that will help you not have to keep repeating yourself. Most of us have a "profile" attached to our signature lines. You can open a google doc and write a summary. if you don't want to write a new summary, go through this post and the last post you had in the LL insulin support group and just copy and paste the essentials. You might want to edit so it's not too long - people wear out on reading too much, but you could put the essentials there.

Most of us that help out will look at a profile and the spreadsheet before we make suggestions. The idea is that all the essential information is easily available to anyone trying to help you. In your case, one essential bit of information is how you made dose increases, because otherwise people will keep coming back to that.
 
it'll make your life easier. LOL - you can just say "profile attached." the nice thing is you can also put pics in a google doc. i have some of punkin's in there, but if you do that, put them at the end. they can take longer to load, and as a person who goes around helping out, waiting for pics to load can be really time-consuming.
 
oh - sorry, one more thing. when you have it done, attach it to your signature line.

For both the ss and the profile, you can make them take up less space by doing it this way.

Where you have Fayaway's spreadsheet -
1. First go to the spreadsheet and copy the URL
2. go back to your signature line and highlight the words "Fayaway's Spreadsheet", then while it's highlighted
3. click on that little link icon - the one that's 7 over from the left side of the toolbar.
4. paste the link into the box that will pop up and
5. click insert right below that box.

That will embed the link into the words "Fayaway's ss" and it will become a clickable link. Takes a lot less room in your signature line that way.

Repeat the same thing for the profile.
 
Eh...about the same I guess. I haven't been crazy about grabbing her numbers lately. Work the last week and a half has been about 14 hour days.

I did ask the vet to start us on some antibiotics in the event that she does have some infection that we just can't see. She we've been on Clindamycin for about 3 days now. Her pre-shot levels are more regularly in the 300s now. We may still need more insulin...not sure. I bought a PetSafe 5 but haven't had a change to go buy some D batteries for it.

So all in all, about the same :-/ How are you and your kitties doing? @KPassa And thanks for asking after us <3
 
PS was it you who suggested adding water to the food? @KPassa
It's been lasting a lot longer now, takes her a while to slop it up. Thanks so much for that!
 
It's a bit of a sprag that the batteries aren't included with the feeder. :(

I really hope that the Petsafe will make things easier for you and Fay. I'd be lost without Saoirse's feeders. They were game changers.
 
Critter Mom said:
It's a bit of a sprag that the batteries aren't included with the feeder. :(

I really hope that the Petsafe will make things easier for you and Fay. I'd be lost without Saoirse's feeders. They were game changers.
Click to expand...

It is, isn't it?
I hope it will at least mitigate her constant begging. Not sure how my other kitty will manage. I do worry about her as her feeding has been so wacky since Fay's has become so controlled. I hate to say it, but Frances is far more dear to me than Fay (although of course I love Fay), so I really hope I don't find Frances suffering down the road from all the bumps along the way with Fay's diabetes. Fay is lovable and sweet, but Frances is just one of those very special creatures.
 
It's all very new at the moment, and I'd be lying if I told you that there isn't an adjustment period. All going well, Fay's numbers will get better as her insulin treatment progresses, her appetite will go back to normal and you'll develop a routine that works for both Fay and Frances.
 
Hello Alex, I've been thinking about you & your Kitties *HUGS* I'm glad things are going sort of ok ! I hope you manage to get some batteries. I know what you mean about 1 cat being ignored. When my late cat Rosie had slight stroke, I sometimes worried that my other cat Abby wasn't getting as much attention.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top