I am very confused

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Henry's human

Henry's human

Member Since 2016
Yesterday was Henry's first full day having insulin. He was a lump - he barely moved most of the day (I noticed his tummy was quite firm too). He ate well and drank though. He wanted nothing to do with me.
This morning he was galloping around with his brothers and was happy to see me... His tummy is soft and normal again too.
I have an appointment with the at 9.30am (it is 8.14am). I was due to give him insulin at 8 but I didn't ... I have a bad feeling it is too much for him. I don't know if I should wait til we go to the vet to talk about it or just give it to him (he has one unit twice a day).
 
Here's yesterday's thread

It's not uncommon when you first start to see some lethargy....insulin is a powerful hormone and things are changing for Henry.

How much does Henry weigh? Is that a good weight for him or is he overweight or underweight?

1 unit is a pretty "normal" starting dose for Lantus but if you'll start home testing, you'll know exactly what's going on inside his body...and there's no better feeling than that!! Depending on what food he's getting (any dry?) and how much he weighs, there's a formula for a starting dose

Did you see the link to the spreadsheet that has lots of information about foods and supplies in Australia I posted in yesterday's thread?
 
Sorry, I had a minor freak out this morning because Henry was looking so well (silly, I know). The vet said his sugars were still high and they may do a curve tomorrow. I am going to buy the home testing kit today (the vet mentioned it and said it was a good idea before I could get a word in).
He was raised to two units today and they said if he looks bad this afternoon to bring him in.
He's 5.1kgs, which is a bit under weight I think. He looks skin and bone when he stands up.
He's eating the dry food they sold me (hills - for diabetes) I will slowly change him to wet food when I get the home test thing.
 
Henry's human said:
He was raised to two units today and they said if he looks bad this afternoon to bring him in.
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We don't ever go up in whole units....insulin is a very powerful hormone and just an increase of .25 units can make a BIG difference in the control you get.

Since you're still feeding dry, the only method you should use is called Start Low, Go Slow and 1 unit is the correct starting dose. You'd hold the same dose for a week (unless he dropped below 90 (5 for your meter since you're in Australia...to convert back and forth to US numbers it's just a matter of multiplying or dividing by 18)

Once you get him off the high carb dry, you have the choice of doing the Tight Regulation Protocol. TR has the advantage of being the only protocol that's been published in a veterinary publication and gives cats the best chance at remission. You don't hold onto a dose that's not getting where you want them any longer than 3 days before adjusting. The link to the official protocol is in the thread I linked at the bottom. Maybe you could print it out and show your vet? (If they're the type that's willing to learn new things....Not all of them are which is why a lot of us are here)

I know there's a LOT of information being thrown at you, but we'll be here to help you so don't feel overwhelmed!
 
Hi
Just want to reinforce what Chris said about raising the dose. Even 1 drop extra can dramatically alter Dre's glucose levels.
Small increments is a good way to find the right dose and make sure you don't pass right over it.
Good luck !
 
Just need to say that I didn't up the dose of the insulin, the vet did. I would never do that myself! He is going back to the vet in the morning.
 
Just a note Emily.....Most of us are here because our vets really don't know what they're doing. It's not necessarily that they're "bad vets", it's just that the facts are that vets only get 5 hours of education in diabetes when they're in school (and that covers all species).....Most vets just don't have the time to stay up to date on the latest treatments for every disease in every type of animal they see. If they tried, they'd never have time to see any actual patients!!

The people here do nothing but deal with feline diabetes and the complications that tend to come with it, so they have many years of real life experience in what works best to give our kitties the best chance at remission, while keeping them safe.

Yes, a lot of times these means taking a giant leap of faith to listen to a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet over our vets, but if you're really lucky, your vet will be willing to learn along with you and it'll end up benefiting all his future sugarcat patients too!!
 
Thank you all for the info and comments. Today has been hard, for me. Henry has had a great day. He has been playing with me and his brother, he sat by the front door and listened to birds and was basically my Henry that I know and love. I have been so overwhelmed and have spent half the crying and the other half trying not to cry! I am about to go buy the sugar test kit thing and have put up all food (much to Henry's distress lol) and at 7pm I shall try to test him.
I have been looking at the wet foods and am deciding which to buy, they are all quite expensive if you want to feed four mouths correctly. But, I shall work that out.
 
I think you should start with feeding Henry the wet food and get a handled on him first before worrying about switching all 4 over. do you have walmart there?
you can buy the meter, supplies and syringes there. Can also order a year supply of lantus from this pharmacy rxcanada4less.com/index.html
A lot of members use http://www.chewy.com/ to order food. Fancy feast classics are a top choice here but you can feed some other patete brands as well that are cheaper.
 
scoobydoox said:
I think you should start with feeding Henry the wet food and get a handled on him first before worrying about switching all 4 over. do you have walmart there?
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Since Henry is already on insulin the change to low carb wet food should be done gradually and only once home testing is being done. Hills dry is around 18% carbs (if I remember correctly) and removing a higher carb food before starting home testing could drop the numbers too far
 
Chris & China said:
She's in Australia so she doesn't have all the choices we do here in the states :(

I gave her a link to a spreadsheet of information on foods and supplies available in Australia and New Zealand the other day
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Oh I know germany has walmart and the uk so maybe australia does to
 
Henry's human said:
I have been looking at the wet foods and am deciding which to buy, they are all quite expensive if you want to feed four mouths correctly. But, I shall work that out.
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I think you can get Fancy Feast Classics (although they may be called "pates") and Whiskas ....both should be more affordable than a lot of other foods. BFF is a little higher but still not terribly expensive (here anyway)....the important thing is that they're pates, not "in sauce", "In gravy" or anything that sounds "fancy"...those foods are usually the higher carb foods.

But it IS important to have a few cans of something like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers in the house in case Henry drops too low...it's a high carb food that we use to bring their blood glucose numbers up when we need to. I keep mine in a separate place from our regular low carb food so I don't accidentally open it when I don't need it
 
I was wondering of whiskas was ok. It isn't on that list I read. I did think, in the end that I should just do Henry first before I worry about the others. (They won't be pleased lol).
It is after 3am here. Henry threw up. He won't eat his special food and would only eat the science diet dry. I didn't say no because I think his tummy is upset from the switch. (I tried to do it slowly, but he would only eat the new dry food!!)
So I got the test kit. And failed at my first attempt to get blood. He was very upset with me so I didn't try again. He's being tested at the vet in the morning and then I will try again in the evening.
 
I'm just going to tag some austrailian members, perhaps they can give you an idea of what is affordable and low in carb.
@Vyktors Mum
@Tara & Ivana
@Bron and Sheba
@sarahtee

Getting enough blood for a test can be tricky at first, but after a while it gets easier as the blood vessels develop. Hang in there.
Going from 1u to 2u is quite a big jump, you run the risk of missing the right dose. We see a lot of cats here that arrive on too much insulin because the vet has taken them up too quickly. We usually go up in 0.25u, and it can be astounding how much of a difference that can make to BG.
 
Henry's human said:
I was wondering of whiskas was ok. It isn't on that list I read. I did think, in the end that I should just do Henry first before I worry about the others. (They won't be pleased lol).
It is after 3am here. Henry threw up. He won't eat his special food and would only eat the science diet dry. I didn't say no because I think his tummy is upset from the switch. (I tried to do it slowly, but he would only eat the new dry food!!)
So I got the test kit. And failed at my first attempt to get blood. He was very upset with me so I didn't try again. He's being tested at the vet in the morning and then I will try again in the evening.
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Have you watched the videos yet on how to get a blood sample? Do they have sheba cat food over there? The patetes and perfect portions are ok and not on the list.
 
Henry's human said:
I was wondering of whiskas was ok. It isn't on that list I read
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Whiska's is listed on this spreadsheet toward the bottom....these are foods and supplies available in Australia https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BqzF_RCNZumwGazLP7Bk5NN-xwH54OsF0NqZZfnrtuI/edit#gid=0

Here's something I wrote up for others that needed help with testing...maybe it'll help you too! (don't remember if I've posted this for you before or not, but it's good information!)

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well.

When you're first starting, it's also important to use a lower gauge lancet, like 25-28 gauge. Most of the "lancet devices" come with 33 gauge lancets and they are just too tiny to start with. The bigger lancets (that are lower numbers) make a bigger "hole". As you poke more and more, the ears will grow new capillaries and will be easier and easier to get blood from...we call it "learning to bleed"

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
Henry's human said:
I was wondering of whiskas was ok.
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Whiskas is near the bottom of this food list. If there's any brands that aren't on the list, let me know and I'll get in touch with the manufacturers. I'm quite certain I've accidentally left some off!

Chris & China said:
I think you can get Fancy Feast Classics (although they may be called "pates")
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Unfortunately Fancy Feast never got back to me with carb levels after much to-ing and fro-ing, hence why there's not on the list, but I can't imagine the recipes would be that much different to the US versions anyway.

Emily don't worry about failing at your first attempt to test, pretty sure I failed at my first dozen attempts! I just made sure I gave Ivana lots of treats (one after every poke or poke attempt), and if Henry is a smoochy boy then cuddles would work as well. You will get this! I think the thing that really helped me was making sure my hands weren't cold - Ivana was diagnosed in August so doing the 6am test my hands were like icicles, and the blood would pretty much run away from her ear when I touched her. And of course noone likes being touched by cold hands. I just made sure to wash my hands in hot water beforehand, and I also breathed on her ear to use my breath to warm her ear (she wouldn't stand for anything being held against her ear). It's really all just one big experiment to find what works for you and Henry, you will get there don't worry. I know I offered on another post, but my offer still stands if you want to meet up and go through stuff :-)
 
I would only feed the Whiskas loaf varieties and a couple of the pouch types are ok - just look out for 'thickeners' on the ingredients list and avoid those. Dine is another affordable option again not all of them are ok but there is quite a good range, just avoid the ones that have 'cereals' on the ingredients list. You can get fancy feast quiet cheap when it's on special weirdly nearly all of ours are labelled 'classic' but they aren't the same as the US classic version and not all are low carb - although the manufacturers will tell you they are o_O:mad: stick to the pate varieties for low carb. I use the grilled varieties for high carb when I need to bump him up.

Melissa has got back to you about the asthma in your last thread too, she is happy to help out with that. If you want her attention tag her - like this @Henry's human - see how this gives you an alert on the top right of your screen.

Check the Internet for meters first, sometimes you can pick up a freebie. I think the accucheck performa would be your best bet. Tiny blood sample and you can generally get the strips cheaper than our other brands - get them off eBay for half the price as the chemist has them.

It's good to have a good cry for some stress relief so do that when you feel the need. I promise you will start feeling better soon, once you start getting everything under control :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Funnily my cats only like the loaf style wet food. So that's a bonus.
I got the accucheck meter yesterday. I have a $40 cashback coupon.

Henry is currently in hospital :( his sugar is still high but he was vomiting overnight and he was looking miserable this morning. He had a full blood work up and everything else is functioning normally. He is just in getting some fluids. I'm guessing all the vomiting and diarrhoea of late has caught up with him :(
I have to say my vet is great and on the ball. He had two other diabetic cats in today as well (one had low blood sugar, the other had perfect sugar. Not sure what it was in for).
 
Oh and by the way - henry is not a cuddly cat. He's been very independent since he was little (he was left alone in a dog crate at the rspca vet clinic for a couple of months. Humans weren't his favourite)
 
Henry's human said:
Oh and by the way - henry is not a cuddly cat. He's been very independent since he was little (he was left alone in a dog crate at the rspca vet clinic for a couple of months. Humans weren't his favourite)
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My cat hates having his ears touched at the best of times, and after about 4 weeks he is only just OK with blood testing now. I can usually get it in one prick. Later this week I need t0 do a curve - he'll love that, NOT. I'm in New Zealand and feed Friskies Pates and Fancy Feast Classics. My cats also get some raw food which they LOVE - from the butcher, so no preservatives or additives.
 
Hi Emily,

Max was on Hill's Z/D wet and dry before her diabetes diagnosis. We continued to feed her that while transitioning over to raw food. I also used the Weruva Cat's in the Kitchen range from Petbarn, especially when we needed gravy to get her blood sugar up.

I know many vets recommend changing doses in full units, and I found it hard to go against that advice, but these people here have so much experience with Lantus, and a gradual increase or decrease in dose is much more gentle on the cats. It also means it's much more likely you'll find the right dose for Henry in the shortest amount of time. 5.1kg isn't that heavy, and it sounds like Henry has lost some weight?

Doing the curves at home will give you lots of info. I don't know about Henry, but Max was much happier having the curves done at home, rather than being taken to the vet. It'll only take a few attempts before you get good at the testing, so keep going - it will get better.

(((hugs))) on the emotions, too. Really, it will get better :)
 
Oh, and the testing strips for the accucheck meters are cheaper on eBay, rather than at the pharmacy.
 
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