Hypo?

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bebe Kaye

Member Since 2013
I was just getting ready to test Miley's BG for the AMPS and he started shaking his head weird, he then had a kind of huge spasm and urinated on the couch and when I gently picked him up and put him on the floor he was walking all wonky and then threw up. I immediately tested him (hands shaking like mad) and he's 4.6...isn't this too high for a hypo? Any help please, panicking badly!
 
his body may have gone into protection mode and started throwing out glucogen (sp?), but he was lower earlier, bringing on the symptoms

how is he now? if still symptomatic, rub some karo or honey on his gums, retest, and keep doing so until symptoms disappear. if at all possible, call the vet and tell them or head to the vet while you administer karo and someone else drives

brb
 
he let out a really loud yeowww noise before throwing up also, I immediately opened his high carb food and gave him some, he ate it no worries, about 3/4...also I put a little honey on his gums. He is sitting quietly now, it's been nearly 15 minutes so I will test him again....up to 5.7.
 
I've been up all night as am sick, and I gave him a meal at +6 and he seemed fine all night, he slept beside me or on my lap, no problems at all. It was just so weird came out of no where. He just had a big wee and I used the ketostix...just because I'm in panic mode and that was normal. He seem normal now, walking fine though laying down next to his plate. I thought he was way too high to have a hypo or maybe it was something else, am lost.
 
ok, that's better. if the obvious outward symptoms are diminishing you will probably be ok to stay at home. you might still consider giving your vet a call because while it appears it was too low blood sugar, there are other things that could cause some similar symptoms so he may still need to be looked at by the vet.

DO NOT GIVE ANY INSULIN THIS MORNING.

have you been posting in the lantus insulin forum? i'm thinking that dose increase you just did was either not needed or most likely, might have been too much but i'd like some input from the regular lantus posters on that

other things to check since he seems better now: feel all four feet. are any one of them colder than the others? are any of them bluish in color? how are his eyes? look closely, are they twitching back and forth? does he seem to hear you ok? just other things i think of when i hear of an episode like this because if it was something else, you may see some of these other symptoms
 
Miley is responding to me as usual, his eyes look clear and fine and focused on me, his paw pads are black so no good there, but his gums are nice and pink, his paws all seem warm except for the 2 back ones which he urinated on and being quite chilly over here, are a little cool. He's eaten one full tin of high carb and is starting on another (I won't give him anymore that's the stuff that I think sent his BG up over the past few days). I haven't posted on the lantus forums, I'm lost to the set up over there. Before his high readings of the past few days, I was about to drop his insulin down to 1.5...then the high numbers came in and the vet told me to raise it instead.

If he tests okay later should I give a small dose or just skip the morning one altogether. Wow that was scary, he's been diabetic for nearly a year and this was his first one...how on earth do you test when your hands are shaking so much lol!
 
ok, seems he's out of danger i would say.

i posted over in the lantus group to get some eyes over here to help with what to do with the dose. they can also help with whether you should skip altogether this morning or not. i myself would skip but let's get a few more thoughts on that
 
awesome! safe numbers and great behavior :-)

he is of course gonna go too high with the high carb food on board but that's ok, we can deal with that. better to be too high than too low
 
I have to take the hubby to work, an hour and a bit round drive, but the daughter is up watching him and testing him every 30 minutes, I will check back in when I get home. Also took the '911' off the title,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!!!
 
:-) you're welcome. i think you're safe to do that, especially since your daughter is there and knows what to do (tell her to post here if she needs anything k)

i'm hoping someone from the lantus board chimes in by the time you get back and then you'll know what to do as far as insulin going forward from this point
 
I'm now home and he had a 9.3 at +1...i'm seriously considering giving at least 1 unit of insulin, it's gone up a whole lot in just one hour! Should I do his or give him a full 2 units or just skip...gahh lost. confused_cat
 
If you gave him some insulin now, would you be able to shoot 12 hours from now for his night time shot and 12 hours after that for his next morning shot? I'm just wondering if your shot schedule is that flexible?
If your shot schedule is flexible and you decided to give him some insulin, do you have all the supplies you would need (strips, HC, syrup) and will you be around today to monitor him?
 
My health isn't great and the advantage of that is he has me here 24/7 (my daughters also know how to test and administer insulin also) so he's pretty well covered. I just did a +2 BG test and it came back at 9.3 again, I'm just not sure what amount of insulin to give, should I do the full 2 units or cut it back?

Thanks so much,
Bebe and Milo
 
Well, you're already two hours late, right? The delayed shot will act like a dose decrease in itself as it is depleating the depot of insulin as we speak. Is he a realiable eater? I think, if you think he will eat just fine, then you can go ahead and give the 2.00 units now, just like you did on the 17th, but you may need to monitor that much too. You have lots of test strips and higher carb food for just in case, don't you?
 
Remember that after a low (we dont know for sure this was a hypo since he never dropped that low ie under 2.2 as far as we know), he will bounce so dont panic about any high numbers. Although it has to be noted 9.3 isnt that high.

We usually recommend dose increases of 1/4unit. I know your vet told you 1/2. That may have been too much. Reducing to 2 units sounds like a good idea!

Perhaps also read about our protocol below on dose changes which says you hold the dose for 3-5 days before making a change unless the kitty drops under 50 (2.8)


Wendy

"General" Guidelines:
Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.
Click to expand...
 
Miley is an uber hoover eater, he is currently getting fed about 6-8 times a day! I have plenty of strips and high carb food, so will be set if anything goes wrong.

Thank you everyone for your help and advice it is so greatly appreciated!!!!

Here goes! I will post later in the day to update what's happening with my furry baby.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Remember that after a low (we dont know for sure this was a hypo since he never dropped that low ie under 2.2 as far as we know), he will bounce so dont panic about any high numbers. Although it has to be noted 9.3 isnt that high.

We usually recommend dose increases of 1/4unit. I know your vet told you 1/2. That may have been too much. Reducing to 2 units sounds like a good idea!

Perhaps also read about our protocol below on dose changes which says you hold the dose for 3-5 days before making a change unless the kitty drops under 50 (2.8)


Wendy

"General" Guidelines:
Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thank you, I had read that, I was about to reduce his insulin when he had the 2 days of very high numbers for him (20th and 21st), during that time, I went into the vet to pick up his BP meds and told her about the spike and she said to raise the dose. After sitting back and thinking about it, the rise most likely came from new food and by going back to his usual food and raising his dose, it sent his sugar low.

I've had no experience with hypos, I was sitting massaging his ear getting ready to test him (the AMPS test) when his head started to twitch really badly, I stood up to see him better and his whole body flipped over and he started convulsing for about 20 seconds, he also urinated all over himself while convulsing. I picked him up and gently put him on the floor where he managed to stay on his feet but staggered drunkenly and then made a loud yeoowww noise followed by throwing up. Even though his number was no where near what I expected a hypo to be, his behaviour suggested one so I treated it as such. I hope I did the right thing.

I'm too scared to continue with the 2.5 unit doses and will return to the 2 units for the next 6 cycles and if his numbers remain good, may see if i can take it down a further 0.25...but for now, I just want to get through this day and for his to be okay...that really scared the living daylights out of me! I'm just confused that if it was a hypo, why it happened at such a relatively high level...I also checked for ketones (I don't know why, I just panicked) and it was negative.
 
You did all the right things, tested his blood, tested for ketones. However I would keep a close eye on him as I am not 100% sure this was a hypo and not some other issue.
 
That is really my biggest worry, especially considering we are 2 days in on his new BP medication, I will try and get hold of the vet to find out if that could have caused it...this just showed all the signs of what I would have thought a hypo would be. Maybe it was a hypertension thing... possibly a seizure from a stroke, it just resolved very quickly after I administered the honey and gave him food. Guess it's one of those things where time will tell.
 
yeah and see, i was thinking possibly stroke too or blood clot type of thing, thus the questions about the cold feet, etc....i was asking earlier. given his improvement with the food and such, like you, i figure that yeah it might have been low glucose but who knows. how long between when the symptoms started to you getting a glucose reading would you say it was? i don't know how quick the body can throw out glucogen (sp?) to protect itself but maybe Wendy or someone can chime in on that?

we're headed home for the night but i'll try to check in later before bed and see how things are going
 
I got his BG test done between him stopping convulsing and then putting him on the floor where he staggered and vomited...so pretty quick, I had been warming his ears and had everything set up, so it was a quick thing...about 1 minute from when his head first started twitching. He now seems pretty normal, though is a little more alert than usual (maybe something to do with me annoying him so much!)...I have a very sleepy old man kitty most of the time nowadays.
 
How does his breath smell? You note he is stage 4 renal disease. I'm wondering about a buildup of toxins.
 
His breath smells fine, for a cat I guess, a little bit fishy but then he just ate fish. No sign of any acetone-like smell...what other smells should I watch for?

EDIT: yes stage 4, he has a cretinine level at last check of 500, so he's rather bad off, funny enough both vets i've been to are surprised he is so happy and relatively healthy looking.
 
I've been awake now for 48 hours and my eyes for some reason don't wish to stay open any longer. My daughter is going to keep an eye on Milo, he has been stable on 9.3 for the past few hours, which is rather strange...to have the exact same BG level each testing, I even got my daughter to check in case I did something wrong and she got 9.3 too. He's acting his normal loving self, has been eating, purring, bathing and generally being a cat (which is really lucky because he is one!).

If I can, I will try to get out to buy some new strips in case there is something faulty about this lot...the numbers aren't adding up and even with all his symptoms of having a hypo, he shouldn't have had it at the level he was. Best to be safer than sorry so I will double check with a new pack of strips just to be entirely certain.
 
Bebe Kaye said:
His breath smells fine, for a cat I guess, a little bit fishy but then he just ate fish. No sign of any acetone-like smell...what other smells should I watch for?

EDIT: yes stage 4, he has a cretinine level at last check of 500, so he's rather bad off, funny enough both vets i've been to are surprised he is so happy and relatively healthy looking.
Click to expand...

When/if renal disease is bad enough, the breath can smell like urine.
 
Thank you, I will keep an eye out for any changes in his breath.

I got hold of the vet and had a nice long talk to her, she said if it was a stroke or blood clot, the seizures and behaviour would have continued and not stopped so dramatically, she said that everything I explained sounded like a very typical hypo, so am pretty relieved. She was a little worried about him having a hypo at such a 'high' level but said it might have had something to do with the dramatic drop in numbers from the food change and insulin increase.

I feel like an idiot over all this! Miley has been fine all day, his numbers have increased quite a lot which is only to be expected, hopefully I can get him settled over the next few days.

Than you again for all the help during a time when I was in major panic mode!

Bebe and Milo
 
Next time you think it is a health emergency, please put that 911 icon on your very first post in the thread. You will need to go back to the first post you did and click on the edit box. Then put the cursor on the little radio button for the 911 icon.

I'd rather you got more eyes on a situation like you had yesterday than fewer. When the crisis is passed, we'll have you go back and change the icon again to a non-panic mode one. Make sense to you?
 
Thanks :-D I did that and it was fine, weird that he got the exact same numbers over 5 hours, but then he is a bit of a strange boy! I now have a really low AMPS level and am not sure if I should shoot or not, I will post over on the Lantus forum and see if I can get any replies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top