HUMAN METER #’s vs CAT METER

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Erinmc

Erinmc

Member Since 2022
I recently took my cat Zoey to the vet because she has been peeing all over the place. Her numbers have been quite steady so I haven’t tested as much but you can see from her chart it’s been pretty consistent. The vet I don’t think is familiar with the human meters and she suggested I go down from her two units twice a day to 1 1/2 units twice a day. She said she didn’t like how she dipped to 70 midday. What are the ranges for the human meter? If I go lower with her ProZinc insulin won’t her blood sugar go up?
 
Hi first you need to fix your signature if you are using the Relion meter like your spreadsheet says. I see in one of your posts from 2022 a member had asked you to change it
Tap on your name up top, then tap on signature and get rid of Alpha Trak and put in Relion ,then tap save
The last test on your SS was 4-28-22
I can tag someone for you but I don't know if they can give you any advice since you don't have an updated SS ,you also need to set one up for 2023

Looking back at some of your posts from 2022 I see a member asked you to pick a dosing
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
They will tell you when to increase or decrease and add that to your signature and SS
The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120.
What are you feeding ? Low carb wet or combo low carb wet/dry

EDIT I see you do have some tests from 2023 for April only, it was hard to notice that
 
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Erinmc said:
I recently took my cat Zoey to the vet because she has been peeing all over the place. Her numbers have been quite steady so I haven’t tested as much but you can see from her chart it’s been pretty consistent. The vet I don’t think is familiar with the human meters and she suggested I go down from her two units twice a day to 1 1/2 units twice a day. She said she didn’t like how she dipped to 70 midday. What are the ranges for the human meter? If I go lower with her ProZinc insulin won’t her blood sugar go up?
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@Suzanne & Darcy
Hi Suzanne can you please take a look at my post also
Thank you
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi first you need to fix your signature if you are using the Relion meter like your spreadsheet says. I see in one of your posts from 2022 a member had asked you to change it
Tap on your name up top, then tap on signature and get rid of Alpha Trak and put in Relion ,then tap save
The last test on your SS was 4-28-22
I can tag someone for you but I don't know if they can give you any advice since you don't have an updated SS ,you also need to set one up for 2023

Looking back at some of your posts from 2022 I see a member asked you to pick a dosing
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
They will tell you when to increase or decrease and add that to your signature and SS
The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120.
What are you feeding ? Low carb wet or combo low carb wet/dry
Click to expand...
I changed the info you said. I have her SS there. Can you not see it?
She eats fancy feast classic pate.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi first you need to fix your signature if you are using the Relion meter like your spreadsheet says. I see in one of your posts from 2022 a member had asked you to change it
Tap on your name up top, then tap on signature and get rid of Alpha Trak and put in Relion ,then tap save
The last test on your SS was 4-28-22
I can tag someone for you but I don't know if they can give you any advice since you don't have an updated SS ,you also need to set one up for 2023

Looking back at some of your posts from 2022 I see a member asked you to pick a dosing
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
They will tell you when to increase or decrease and add that to your signature and SS
The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120.
What are you feeding ? Low carb wet or combo low carb wet/dry
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean by “pick a dosing”
 
Erinmc said:
I changed the info you said. I have her SS there. Can you not see it?
She eats fancy feast classic pate.
Click to expand...
My mistake yes I see the tests for 2023 , members are asked to start a new tab for 2023 or you can highlight the beginning date of 2023
If you can highlight the date of 4-13-2023 that would be good so it stands out
After your date of 4-29-2023 you have all 2022 dates?
Can you get rid of them ?
 
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One thing that concerns me about your SS is that you are not doing tests, or very few tests, during the PM cycles. This is half the data which is missing. And cats often drop lower at night. So please try and get at least one test in every pm cycle…even a before bed test.
Are you leaving out snacks for during the night?
The normal range for cats is 50 to 120 using a human meter. I would stay with the human meter.

I think @Suzanne & Darcy needs to have a look at your SS as she is a Prozinc user.
 
Okay, let's just take this slowly... I am sorry if I have asked you this stuff before (last year) but what is a dose of 2.3? I'm thinking you told me that you eyeballed it and it was between 2 and 2.5 so you just called it 2.3? I seem to remember this from last year, but forgive me because it could have been another person.
 
There are an awful lot of days in there where we have no idea what was happening -- no tests and we don't know her nadir both morning or evening cycles, and as Bron has already pointed out, many cats do tend to dip lower at night so it is important to get a tests before you go to bed to see if she's dipping low and if you need to feed, set alarms to wake up and test to make sure she's not going too low, etc.
 
Also, from the data that you do have... and I would like to have a better picture... but from the data that you do have, it appears that she's doing okay ... so why would your vet want to change the dose. I suggest going back to a straight 2 unit dose and holding it for 7 days and seeing how she does unless she drops too low. This is where picking a dosing method comes in. You have been provided with the link to read about the dosing methods. If you follow SLGS, then you would need to reduce if he dropped below 90 (human meter). If you follow MPM (Modified ProZinc Method) your reduction point would be lower. If you can get at least one mid cycle test in both morning and evening, then I would suggest going with a modified prozinc method -- this would allow you to make dose changes more frequently, if necessary. She seems to be doing very well, and I don't see the need to reduce if she drops below 90 (since she already goes below 90). Honestly, she looks pretty regular and I don't see why she would need a lot of dose changes. As I said, I believe a dose of 2 units should be tried and held for seven days and that you should get as many test in as you can (minimum of the two preshot tests and then at least one mid cycle test for both morning and evening.)

Human meters tend to read a little lower than the Alpha Trak meter. For example, 68 would be your "take action" number on an Alpha Trak (where you would feed some food like medium carb or high carb to bring the numbers up -- depends on the cat, every cat is different -- some need more carbs than others.. even karo syrup)... but 50 would be your "take action" number on your ReliOn meter. So, in general, Bron gave you the ranges that are considered "normal" for both the human and for the pet meters.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay, let's just take this slowly... I am sorry if I have asked you this stuff before (last year) but what is a dose of 2.3? I'm thinking you told me that you eyeballed it and it was between 2 and 2.5 so you just called it 2.3? I seem to remember this from last year, but forgive me because it could have been another person.
Click to expand...
I don’t honk that was me, but yes, I just did a few doses just above 2 units. She had a very high morning reading a couple weeks ago and she wouldn’t eat breakfast. It seemed like her readings were better so I kept doing the slightly higher dose. Was that bad?
She’s been having accidents lately so I took her in when I saw a bit of blood in her urine. Her numbers (for thyroid and diabetes/kidneys) were a bit off but nothing too extreme. The vet found no infection, no crystals, and figures the bit of pinkness in her urine was from inflammation. I just don’t know why she wants to lower her insulin dose when she’s pretty much the same numbers as last year. I don’t think she understands the human meter numbers even tho I told her that 50 was the low end. She also wants to increase her thyroid medicine ‍♀️ She did say that she thinks her kidneys are beginning to fail (not to bad, probably stage 2) she suggested giving her a hydration supplement.
 
Can you obtain/share her bloodwork so I can see? I also don't see from the data that you have shared, the need to reduce her dose. But without a little more data (as previously mentioned in earlier posts) I can't be sure. It looks like she's pretty "regular" in her BG.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Also, from the data that you do have... and I would like to have a better picture... but from the data that you do have, it appears that she's doing okay ... so why would your vet want to change the dose. I suggest going back to a straight 2 unit dose and holding it for 7 days and seeing how she does unless she drops too low. This is where picking a dosing method comes in. You have been provided with the link to read about the dosing methods. If you follow SLGS, then you would need to reduce if he dropped below 90 (human meter). If you follow MPM (Modified ProZinc Method) your reduction point would be lower. If you can get at least one mid cycle test in both morning and evening, then I would suggest going with a modified prozinc method -- this would allow you to make dose changes more frequently, if necessary. She seems to be doing very well, and I don't see the need to reduce if she drops below 90 (since she already goes below 90). Honestly, she looks pretty regular and I don't see why she would need a lot of dose changes. As I said, I believe a dose of 2 units should be tried and held for seven days and that you should get as many test in as you can (minimum of the two preshot tests and then at least one mid cycle test for both morning and evening.)

Human meters tend to read a little lower than the Alpha Trak meter. For example, 68 would be your "take action" number on an Alpha Trak (where you would feed some food like medium carb or high carb to bring the numbers up -- depends on the cat, every cat is different -- some need more carbs than others.. even karo syrup)... but 50 would be your "take action" number on your ReliOn meter. So, in general, Bron gave you the ranges that are considered "normal" for both the human and for the pet meters.
Click to expand...
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Can you obtain/share her bloodwork so I can see? I also don't see from the data that you have shared, the need to reduce her dose. But without a little more data (as previously mentioned in earlier posts) I can't be sure. It looks like she's pretty "regular" in her BG.
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I can email the vet tomorrow and see about her blood work. I wrote down a bit. creatinine was ‘high normal’, BUN 47,SDMA 22.8. I think she is mistaken about lowering the dose too. Even tho I told her the levels for a human meter she said she wants her numbers between 80-300 (cat meter)
 
You don’t want your cat up that high - especially with kidney disease. If she’s over the kidney threshold that’s not good - she will be spilling glucose into her urine.

Blue numbers are okay (in the 100-199) range— and the greens are good as long as above 50 but 300?? That’s not healthy or anywhere near normal glucose levels for a cat. The vet is just wrong on this one.
 
My cat would never eat that HydraCare stuff if that’s what it is. I tried it. It was an expensive failure, but your girl may eat (lick) it.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You don’t want your cat up that high - especially with kidney disease. If she’s over the kidney threshold that’s not good - she will be spilling glucose into her urine.

Blue numbers are okay (in the 100-199) range— and the greens are good as long as above 50 but 300?? That’s not healthy or anywhere near normal glucose levels for a cat. The vet is just wrong on this one.
Click to expand...
I think the 300+ was from a fur shot the night before. (At least I hope). She’s pretty much stayed in the 70-150 range. I just freaked out cause it coincided with her not wanting to eat that morning. Any idea the reason for this?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You don’t want your cat up that high - especially with kidney disease. If she’s over the kidney threshold that’s not good - she will be spilling glucose into her urine.

Blue numbers are okay (in the 100-199) range— and the greens are good as long as above 50 but 300?? That’s not healthy or anywhere near normal glucose levels for a cat. The vet is just wrong on this one.
Click to expand...
The vet said her urine is very diluted (probably from drinking more) and a very small amount of protein in it. So she’s not filtering properly
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Can you read the link I gave you about the dosing methods I gave you it will explaine them . They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed
Thanks for updating your signature and highlighting 2023
I tagged Suzanne for you since she's a prozinc user
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
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I just re read this and it does say if kitty drops below 90, decrease the dose. This is what my vet said. I’m so confused. Why would you lower the dose if her lowest number is too low?
 
Erinmc said:
I just re read this and it does say if kitty drops below 90, decrease the dose. This is what my vet said. I’m so confused. Why would you lower the dose if her lowest number is too low?
Click to expand...
You are correct about SLGS reduce if under 90. I'm going to tag Suzanne again for you and see why she suggested to stay with the 2 units in her post #14
You really need to start testing every day so we can see what's going on and how the insulin is working
Can you test everyday AMPS and PMPS to see if the number is safe to shoot
and at least get another test @+6 for both cycles
If you can I would get a test @+2, @+4 and @+6 for both cycles
The more data the better
Everyday you can test at different times ,like filling in pieces of a puzzle
I don't see a test on your SS for last night for PMPS? Did you test?
Have you done any testing today? 4-29?
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
Erinmc said:
She did say that she thinks her kidneys are beginning to fail (not to bad, probably stage 2) she suggested giving her a hydration supplement.
Click to expand...
If Zoey is having kidney issues you want to feed low carb and low phosphorus wet food
Fancy Feast is high in phosphorus
I will give you a list that a member put together which you can feed Zoey
You can check these out from Weruva BFF like
One of our members put it together
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%

weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals.

You can buy single cans in pet stores and even on line to see if Zoey likes them, Petco or PetSmart
 
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Erinmc said:
I just re read this and it does say if kitty drops below 90, decrease the dose. This is what my vet said. I’m so confused. Why would you lower the dose if her lowest number is too low?
Click to expand...
If following SLGS you reduce if kitty drops below 90. If following MPM then reductions are earned if kitty drops below 50. The target BG is different for the two dosing methods so it’s important to know what your goals are for your cat and what your ability to test and monitor/intervene is. Some people are going for keeping their cats in the numbers that are what a healthy non-diabetic cat would have 50-120 (some actually spend a lot of time in the 40s but we don’t want to push our diabetic cats that low with insulin - I am just talking about cats who do not need/receive insulin.). Some people are very driven to get their cats into remission. I hope this explains the different reduction points in the dosing methods.
 
Erinmc said:
The vet said her urine is very diluted (probably from drinking more) and a very small amount of protein in it. So she’s not filtering properly
Click to expand...
It looks like maybe from the BUN and SDMA that she may have CKD, yes. Creatinine would be a better indicator. Also urine specific gravity (which I assume was low since vet said urine was dilute- and that means her kidneys are not concentrating urine appropriately.). So I am definitely not disagreeing with the vet on the CKD, but I am only saying that the bet is wrong to say that the BG should be as high as 300. That is too high and is harder on the kidneys. Diabetes is already hard enough on the kidneys and to suggest that she should be up as high as 300 (that 300 is an okay BG value) isn’t the best for Zoey.
 
Erinmc said:
Not sure what you mean by “pick a dosing”
Click to expand...
This is whether you will choose to follow SLGS or the Modified ProZinc method. Your kitty has been on ProZinc for some time now and has been having some very good cycles. She has not dropped under 50. The lowest number I see on your spreadsheet is 55, a perfectly safe number on the ReliOn meter. So I felt comfortable saying that you should shoot 2 units as long as you are getting the fasting preshot tests before each shot and are also getting at least one mid-cycle test during each cycle. Your spreadsheet says 2.3 as we talked about. I was suggesting 2 units on the line. There are ProZinc
U-40 syringes with half unit markings available and they make dosing in .25 increments much easier (if you ever did need to give, for example, a 2.25 unit dose. If you decide that you want to follow SLGS (where doses are held for at least 7 days without increasing but obviously can be reduced if the BG goes below the reduction point) then that is okay too. My suggestion for you is quite different than what I would suggest for a newly diagnosed cat. I would like to see more data on the spreadsheet-the AMPS, PMPS, and mid cycle tests. I am happy with the numbers that I do see on the sheet already though.
 
Erinmc said:
I think the 300+ was from a fur shot the night before. (At least I hope). She’s pretty much stayed in the 70-150 range. I just freaked out cause it coincided with her not wanting to eat that morning. Any idea the reason for this?
Click to expand...
So you are saying she didn’t want to eat the morning that her BG was 304 (April 10?) I cannot speculate on why she was at 304 that morning because there is no testing data for for days prior to that day. It could have been a bounce from her dropping into low BG the night before (a good reason to get that before bed test that will tell you if you need to continue monitoring or set alarms to wake you and test again- also that number will tell you if and what you should feed for snacks.). Or perhaps you remember that the evening before was a fur shot or partial fur shot? She may also have not felt well at 304 since she’s not used to being that high anymore. Or perhaps she felt a little nauseous (since her BUN is elevated.). Has she been eating normally since then?
 
I have to go out and get a new battery for my car now and run a couple more errands. I will check back in with you later to try and answer any other questions that you may have. Try to get a mid cycle test on her today. What time zone are you in? I’m in Eastern.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I have to go out and get a new battery for my car now and run a couple more errands. I will check back in with you later to try and answer any other questions that you may have. Try to get a mid cycle test on her today. What time zone are you in? I’m in Eastern.
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Yes. I’m in eastern (DC area). I have to run out too but I’m gonna take more time tonight to digest everything you and others have posted (it’s a lot). I’m going to also go throw my meter as see if I can fill in my SS. Contrary to what others have scolded me for, I do test before shots always and test intermittently to make sure she is still at same levels. I just don’t always fill in my SS. I’ll try to do better
 
Erinmc said:
Yes. I’m in eastern (DC area). I have to run out too but I’m gonna take more time tonight to digest everything you and others have posted (it’s a lot). I’m going to also go throw my meter as see if I can fill in my SS. Contrary to what others have scolded me for, I do test before shots always and test intermittently to make sure she is still at same levels. I just don’t always fill in my SS. I’ll try to do better
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Thanks. I believe you. It’s just that we can’t know what is going on unless we can see.

I used to live in Northern Virginia (Alexandria) for ages (and worked in DC for years). Now I am in Georgia.
 
If you don't have the U-40 syringes with half unit markings you can get them here
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/18553/ulticare-u40-pet-29g-3-10cc-1-2in-half-unit
adw-coupon-dia10.jpg

10% off your next order!

Call them ,tell them what you want ,give them the coupon code and they will contact your vet.
Ask your vet for some refills so you can then order them yourself. Give your vet a heads up
 
Thanks for updating your sheet the last couple of days. Your beautiful cycles yesterday and today are the envy of many a ProZinc user. This is why I think you should stick with the straight 2 unit dose as long as she continues to have these numbers. I would give her small snacks of her regular low carb wet food at maybe +2 and +4 to keep things smooth (BG wise) and count myself very lucky to have a cat who responds to ProZinc so well and has such regular cycles.
 
Anyway, really I think we should get back to the issue of Zoey peeing all over the place. Is she still doing it? You mentioned that you took her to the vet. Vet thought it was inflammation causing blood in her urine (which should have been seen on a urinalysis.). If there’s no sign of infection as the vet said, then I would try Cosequin to begin with to see if it helps. That is used with FLUTD. Adequan injections are also used but Cosequin can be tried first.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Anyway, really I think we should get back to the issue of Zoey peeing all over the place. Is she still doing it? You mentioned that you took her to the vet. Vet thought it was inflammation causing blood in her urine (which should have been seen on a urinalysis.). If there’s no sign of infection as the vet said, then I would try Cosequin to begin with to see if it helps. That is used with FLUTD. Adequan injections are also used but Cosequin can be tried first.
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It’s getting better {knock on wood}. She’s always been one to pee on anything left on the floor. I finally blocked off the closet where I had pee pads for her. She ruined the carpet in there so I put them there just in case and then I think it became a habit. It’s been a couple days and I’ve noticed more pee in the litter box. I have a question for you. someone gave me some Soulistic serene selections cat food but I can’t find the chart to check if it’s good for diabetes. I saw a couple posts that it’s low carb AND low phosphorus. What do you think?
 
Erinmc said:
. I have a question for you. someone gave me some Soulistic serene selections cat food but I can’t find the chart to check if it’s good for diabetes. I saw a couple posts that it’s low carb AND low phosphorus. What do you think?
Click to expand...
If you are talking about any of these flavors ,they are too high in carbs and phosphorus You need to look at the ME chart for the carbs and the Minerals chart for the phosphorus tap on this link
https://www.soulisticpet.com/original-flavors-nutrition


If you don't want to feed the Weruva Pates I listed above you can try these
Here are the soulistic pates click on this link, these are the ones that ate low carb/low phosphorus
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
Then click on one of the flavors and the click on where it says
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION
and look at the ME chart for the carbs and on the Minerals chart for the phosphorus
You want to stay under 250 for the phosphorus

One other thing you only want to feed fish flavors about once a week because of mercy in them
@Erinmc
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you are talking about any of these flavors ,they are too high in carbs and phosphorus You need to look at the ME chart for the carbs and the Minerals chart for the phosphorus tap on this link
https://www.soulisticpet.com/original-flavors-nutrition


If you don't want to feed the Weruva Pates I listed above you can try these
Here are the soulistic pates click on this link, these are the ones that ate low carb/low phosphorus
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
Then click on one of the flavors and the click on where it says
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION
and look at the ME chart for the carbs and on the Minerals chart for the phosphorus
You want to stay under 250 for the phosphorus

One other thing you only want to feed fish flavors about once a week because of mercy in them
@Erinmc
Click to expand...
Yeah, these aren’t the pâté’s. Bummer. I guess my other cats get a treat. And I was never told that about the fish flavors. I’ve basically been giving Zoe Seafoods flavors forever
 
Erinmc said:
Yeah, these aren’t the pâté’s. Bummer. I guess my other cats get a treat. And I was never told that about the fish flavors. I’ve basically been giving Zoe Seafoods flavors forever
Click to expand...
It's the high levels of mercury and other chemicals in the kinds of fish used in cat food.
Did you try any of the Weruva I gave you ?
 
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