Howie is “starving” & thirsty

Status
Not open for further replies.
Howiesmom

Howiesmom

Member Since 2020
My Howie is 11 and diagnosed on June 23. He’s on Prozinc and started at 2 units twice/day and is up to 6 units. He’s had 2 glucose curves and it doesn’t seem to be getting better. The past 3 weeks, he’s been STARVING (or acting like it) starting about 3-4 hrs before meal time. I give him 3/4s of a can per meal of Purina Pro Plan True Nature grain free wet food at 8am/8pm. One of my friends with a diabetic kittie puts out a little dry food each day along with the wet food and he is regulated. So against my research, I started giving him 1/6 cup of dry food twice a day to help curb his appetite. Should I NOT go down this road? He’s also started drinking a lot more water (last insulin increase was 6 days ago). I just don’t know what to do. I’ve gone back to work this week after being home for several months, so can’t give him snacks as people have suggested. I appreciate anyone’s advice as I feel like a rotten mommy right now!
 
I wouldn’t recommend giving him dry, When I took Max off dry, his numbers went down 100 points. 6 units is a very high dosage. Most start out at 1-2.5U.

If I recall the recommended calories for a fairly regulated cat is 30 cal/pound. Is that correct @JanetNJ ? If he’s acting hungry, I would definitely feed more. Can you get an automatic feeder to feed him some wet mid-day?
 
Hello Howie's mom, welcome to FDMB!

A few things to get you started. Home testing is the only way we can truly help our cats feel better, you're otherwise shooting in the dark and hoping you hit something. It's very easy to do and without blood sugar numbers we're limited in how we can help. Another thing is that 2 units is a high starting dose (0.5 to 1 unit is preferable) and it's very possible you have bypassed his "perfect" dose that will get him feeling better. Too little, they feel bad. Too much, they feel bad. It can be fickle. We increase slowly and by 0.25 units at a time so not to miss it. 6 units is a very high dose for a cat. Some cats do need that much, but you are almost always looking at concurrent diseases causing these issues, and to be frank, while it's not unusual to see a high-dose cat like that, most caregivers who come here with that high a dose are overdosing. That said, please do not change the dose yet until we see some data to back that up!

Do you have the numbers from the glucose curves you could share with us? They won't tell us much unfortunately (which is why we recommend home testing) but it's a start. Purina Pro Plan True Nature is fine to feed (we want low carbs less than 10%, ideally under 5%, which means True Nature meets this criteria) but you can also just use Fancy Feast Classics or Friskies Pate if you need something more affordable. With feeding, we do not practice 2 feedings a day - it's actually quite dangerous for cats. Small, multiple meals are easier on the pancreas AND prevent hypoglycemia if the insulin is dropping them too much. We feed anywhere from 4-8 meals per cycle (that's every 12 hours!). Bigger meals at shot-time, small snacks during the day/night. And new diabetic kitties need LOTS of food. At least twice as much as a normal kitty.

You are right that adding dry is the wrong way to go. I do not know if your friend's cat is truly regulated or not (a simple vet curve cannot prove this) but also remember that every cat is different (ECID). Some cats' pancreases aren't as badly damaged as others, which is why some cats go into remission quickly and others don't. Finally, since you're going to be going back to work, I recommend purchasing an autofeeder (preferred one around here is Petsafe 5 but I've seen Catmate mentioned too). Howie will need his midday snacks, and he also needs night snacks too.

We're happy to elaborate on anything but hopefully that gives you some things to start with. :)
 
Last edited:
@NoahFL it is 20 cal/lb of ideal body weight/day.
Unregulated Diabetic cats are hungry because they are not able to absorb all the nutrients in the food. If he isn't putting on weight I would feed him more.
I would think about investing in an automatic feeder which you can use while you are at work and it will open to feed him.
He needs to be fed before the shots and again during the first half of all cycles. Give a couple of snacks each cycle inbetween his main feeds...much better for the pancreas
I would not increase the dose if you have been feeding dry food and intend to get rid of it as withdrawing the dry can drop the BG up to 100 points.

Highly recommend home testing with a human glucose mete to keep your Howie safe.
 
NoahFL said:
I wouldn’t recommend giving him dry, When I took Max off dry, his numbers went down 100 points. 6 units is a very high dosage. Most start out at 1-2.5U.

If I recall the recommended calories for a fairly regulated cat is 30 cal/pound. Is that correct @JanetNJ ? If he’s acting hungry, I would definitely feed more. Can you get an automatic feeder to feed him some wet mid-day?
Click to expand...
About 20 calories per pound.
 
Hello Howies mom! I see you have been treated to advice from some of our very best! ;)

I would just like to say WELCOME ! You have landed in a safe place for you and extra sweet Howie. Its going to be ok! Theres a wealth of information here at your finger tips. Feel free to ask all the questions you need to help Howie. We are a dedicated group of kitty cat lovers, that are tied together by the disease called diabetes. A huge family of knowledge and LOVE. A family you are now a part of.
We welcome you with open PAWS! :bighug:
jeanne
 
Thank you to everyone who sent me thoughts and encouragement on Tuesday! You all brought tears to my eyes as I've been sitting here frustrated with so many conflicting things to read online from various vet blogs. I have purchased a Relion Premier voice monitor and will be getting an autofeeder. I do have a couple more questions and I realize you may or may not be able to answer them as they may be cat-specific. My vet is on vacation right now so am trying to figure this out in his absence right now. Thank you in advance!

1. Since Howie seems to be starving throughout the day and there are recommendations of giving him more food, I'm trying to figure out how much. He is about 10.1 pounds (and has gained about .3 pounds since original diagnosis). In my estimation, he is getting at least 300 kcal/day already but that doesn't fill him up. Each of his 5.5 oz food cans is about 200 kcal so he's been getting about 1.5 cans/day. Should I go up to 2 full cans/day? That is what a 14 pound cat should be eating according to feeding guidelines!

2. Once I can get his autofeeder, how much food do people typically feed at meal times (for shots) vs. mid-cycle snacks/meals? I'm nervous I'm going to start feeding him a ton and then have to try and ween him off so much food later!

3. He hates me touching his ears already as I have to clean them out every other day right now. So any tips/tricks of getting him to not squirm and run away as soon as he sees me would be great. Also, because he is acting sooooo hungry right now, he doesn't stand still until he gets his food. So I'm nervous trying to stay calm and patient when he can't stand still.

4. Right now, he is on 6 units of Prozinc twice/day. Once I start monitoring him, how do I know how much to give him? He's been on this dosage for 8 days already.

I'm sure I will have a zillion more questions once I really start getting this going. I just feel so horrible that he's been diagnosed for more than 7 weeks and I'm just starting this process. I hope there is not too much permanent damage done.
 
Thank you to everyone who sent me thoughts and encouragement on Tuesday! You all brought tears to my eyes as I've been sitting here frustrated with so many conflicting things to read online from various vet blogs. I have purchased a Relion Premier voice monitor and will be getting an autofeeder. I do have a couple more questions and I realize you may or may not be able to answer them as they may be cat-specific. My vet is on vacation right now so am trying to figure this out in his absence right now. Thank you in advance!

1. Since Howie seems to be starving throughout the day and there are recommendations of giving him more food, I'm trying to figure out how much. He is about 10.1 pounds (and has gained about .3 pounds since original diagnosis). In my estimation, he is getting at least 300 kcal/day already but that doesn't fill him up. Each of his 5.5 oz food cans is about 200 kcal so he's been getting about 1.5 cans/day. Should I go up to 2 full cans/day? That is what a 14 pound cat should be eating according to feeding guidelines!

2. Once I can get his autofeeder, how much food do people typically feed at meal times (for shots) vs. mid-cycle snacks/meals? I'm nervous I'm going to start feeding him a ton and then have to try and ween him off so much food later!

3. He hates me touching his ears already as I have to clean them out every other day right now. So any tips/tricks of getting him to not squirm and run away as soon as he sees me would be great. Also, because he is acting sooooo hungry right now, he doesn't stand still until he gets his food. So I'm nervous trying to stay calm and patient when he can't stand still.

4. Right now, he is on 6 units of Prozinc twice/day. Once I start monitoring him, how do I know how much to give him? He's been on this dosage for 8 days already.

I'm sure I will have a zillion more questions once I really start getting this going. I just feel so horrible that he's been diagnosed for more than 7 weeks and I'm just starting this process. I hope there is not too much permanent damage done.
 
Awesome to hear you're preparing yourself! :)

1. New diabetics are very very hungry! They're unable to utilize food properly when unregulated so they're always starving. Feed him as much as he wants right now. My cat ate up to three times as much as she would have been normally.

2. In my experience the kitty will stop being so hungry and will naturally cut back. Starting out my girl got 1 can (3 oz) of food for breakfast/dinner meals and something like a quarter to half a can each snack time. I didn't measure it out though; I basically offered her a few bites any time she asked. And she asked a LOT. Later on we trimmed it down to half a can for breakfast/dinner meals and a quarter can for snacks.

3. Are his ears infected or anything is why you're cleaning then? Anyway, just start small - rub/pet his ears several times a day, even if he gets offended and pulls away. Give treats after. Use that hunger to your advantage and he'll start to associate it with food. I would make baked chicken and pull it apart into little bite sizes to use as frequent treats. Are you going to use a lancet device? If so, click it near him to get him used to the sound and give treats (some kitties don't like the sound it makes). I would also feed first to distract him to let you handle him. There is no way I could get my girl to hold still if she could smell food but couldn't have it, she always did better after eating.

4. You'll post here with your readings and the members with dosing experience can look at his numbers and offer advice on what's happening. We'll explain it to you too so you'll understand. You could post on this thread or make a new one titled "dosing advice needed for Prozinc" to get assistance. You can also ping the Prozinc-experienced members to help, which right now are mainly @Deb & Wink , @JanetNJ , and myself (those the other two are more comfortable with dosing suggestions than I).

Whenever you're ready just ask away! You don't need to learn everything overnight so don't stress. And if it makes you feel any better, off the top of my head I can think of at least one person whose cat had been diabetic for over 3 years and she had just found the forum and started home-testing. She was horrified she'd been shooting blind all that time, but thankful nothing bad had happened. You're doing just fine!
 
Forgot to mention you'll want to set up a spreadsheet to log Howie's numbers. I'm on mobile right now and about to head to bed but I'll link you to instructions in the morning if someone doesn't do it before me. :smuggrin:
 
Hi - I'm sure you'll get some great answers to all of your questions soon enough.

I just wanted to mention about the ear thing, I found that with Kyra I could distract him enough by letting him eat some tuna out of a little tube while I did the test. Sometimes if he tries to worm away I stick the tube right under his nose and he is back to being distracted while I do my thing. Also, I find doing the ear furthest away from me works better, so I am leaning over Kyra. If I do the ear nearest to me he keeps trying to bat me off....no idea why it makes a difference because we have gotten tests from both ears in the past.

You'll get there, I think testing really is the hardest part in all of this but you'll be amazed how quickly you get in to it. Perseverance, treats (for both of you) and don't be so hard on yourself. I think knowing when to walk away in the early days is key, at least you gave it a go and you can try again later.

Also I think we were 8 weeks in with Kyra before we started attempting to home test, so don't feel bad! It all depends on what advice you get from your vet at the time and how quickly you come across this amazing forum of help and guidance! We were late to the party too!! x
 
Agree with Jemma we have so many people come back and say testing is second nature now. YOU WILL TOO. Just go slow and use that love of food right now, while you have it. Once insulin starts doing its job his hunger will wane a bit.
 
Daily calorie intake should be ideal weight -14- times 20. It’s okay to feed more. I’d even go a bit higher as he needs to gain right now.

I sing. It helps me abs Minnie relax. I also use a nuked sock to warm up the ear. It makes all the difference in getting enough blood. Then bribe with food. Once they get that they’ll eat right after, they get used to sitting still!
 
Panic said:
Feed him as much as he wants right now
Click to expand...
I'm just wondering about feeding him as much as he wants right now. Excess weight gain is not good for diabetics either. My cat "Freckles" also was diagnosed with acromegaly this last spring. With her being 'Acro" her appetite is NEVER satisfied. If I let her eat as much as she wanted, she would never stop eating and would be huge! Perhaps
@Panic can offer more guidance as how long you can feed Howie a limitless amount of food?
 
Judy and Freckles said:
I'm just wondering about feeding him as much as he wants right now. Excess weight gain is not good for diabetics either. My cat "Freckles" also was diagnosed with acromegaly this last spring. With her being 'Acro" her appetite is NEVER satisfied. If I let her eat as much as she wanted, she would never stop eating and would be huge! Perhaps
@Panic can offer more guidance as how long you can feed Howie a limitless amount of food?
Click to expand...

This link goes into detail. Basically what I mean is don't try and restrict feeding like you would a normal cat. You obviously don't want them getting overweight but unregulated diabetics are usually losing weight, not gaining. (Most) cats are able to self-regulate and can start cutting back (ie stop begging so much) when their body is using food properly again. Perhaps I should rephrase that to "feed him more". :)
 
Howiesmom said:
2. Once I can get his autofeeder, how much food do people typically feed at meal times (for shots) vs. mid-cycle snacks/meals? I'm nervous I'm going to start feeding him a ton and then have to try and ween him off so much food later!
I use an autofeeder as well. I typically give Freckles 1/2 of her breakfast at shot time and the remaining food is split between snacks in the autofeeder as long as the last snack is 2 or more hours prior to shot time.

3. He hates me touching his ears already as I have to clean them out every other day right now. So any tips/tricks of getting him to not squirm and run away as soon as he sees me would be great. Also, because he is acting sooooo hungry right now, he doesn't stand still until he gets his food. So I'm nervous trying to stay calm and patient when he can't stand still.
There are 2 ways that I deal with having Freckles stay still and they both involve eating. With Howie's appetite being so voracious, you may be in the same boat. When I do tests throughout the day, I crumble a freeze dried chicken treat into Freckles' dish. While she is busy licking that up, I take a blood test. I poke, get a blood drop, scoop up the blood droplet on my thumbnail and then test. Freckles only has to sit still for the poke and for me to scoop up the droplet. She doesn't even pay attention to what I'm doing because she's more concentrated on the food. The other way I will sometimes test at shot time is to get everything ready (strip in monitor - but not pushed all of the way in yet, vaseline ready to go on the ear, and the lancet set and ready) give Freckles her meal (breakfast or supper) and while she is eating, get the blood droplet.

I also add water to each of Freckle's meals and snacks - it takes her longer to eat, she feels more full and she's getting more water in her to help kidneys.

4. Right now, he is on 6 units of Prozinc twice/day. Once I start monitoring him, how do I know how much to give him? He's been on this dosage for 8 days already.
Click to expand...

This is very important for you to do right now. You NEED to start testing him at home ASAP. I don't know much about Prozinc, but IMO 6 units is a very high dose considering he was just diagnosed the end of June. Cat's numbers can jump throughout the day and if a cat's numbers go too low, that is an emergency as cats can get very ill and/or die from having dangerously low numbers. If a cat goes too low (has a hypo) the caregiver has a short time frame (minutes to a few hours) to help the cat out. I don't want to scare you but because you are new to having a diabetic kitty and most vets are not well versed on feline diabetes, it's important for you to know.

You can use a human meter (most of us on here do). The test strips for Alphatrak (animal glucometer) are too expensive and don't tell you anything that a human monitor can't.

The hard crunchy food typically has more carbohydrates in it and will keep your kittie's numbers high. The hard food that you are giving Howie right now, is what could be actually saving his life with that high amount of insulin that he is getting. Carbohydrates raise cat's numbers and insulin helps to lower the number. If you stop the hard food (high carbohydrates) cold turkey and keep giving 6u of insulin, his numbers could go dangerously low and he could end up in a hypo situation.

Having a diabetic kitty isn't that big of a deal once you get past the learning curve - many kitties go on to live regular lives since diabetes is not a death sentence. There are lots of experienced people on this forum to help you get to that point.

Here is the link to setting up your spreadsheet. This forum is very data driven and people want to give you the best advice to keep Howie safe, but they need to know what Howie's numbers are and how he reacts to the insulin.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

I'm tagging

@Deb & Wink
as I think they may have experience with Prozinc and may be able to further help you.
 
From our Health Links forum - a great place to browse: Hometesting Links and Tips - includes numerous links, instructions, pictures, & videos
Home testing is key to determining safe insulin needs. Some cats need six units, some more, some less. If he is on an all low carb wet or raw food diet, then likely less that if eating dry food. As others have said, higher carb dry food will raise his blood sugars, making him even more hungry. I found multiple small meals made my girl less "starved". I just took her daily amount and split it amongst more meals. The autofeeders can really help with that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top