How Much to Feed in a Day?

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Pallie

Member Since 2013
Hello,
We are new here and I'd like to give you a summation of what's happened with my cat the last eight weeks.

She was drinking a lot so I took her to the vet and her sugar was 359 weight was 18 lbs. Vet sold me Hills W/D dry food. I didn't give her much of that but put her on all Fancy Feast Classic.

Went back to the vet 19 days later and she had lost about 11 oz and her glucose read 271. Now here is where I made my mistake by listening to the vet, who wanted her off FF, and on HIlls W/D only.

On the third check, four weeks later, her sugar was up to 491 but she had still lost about 13 more ounces. As I just mentioned she had been on all dry Hills W/D food.

Vet wanted Prozinc started twice a day. I talked with another vet in the office and asked if I could try an all canned diet before doing any insulin. That vet said to give her Purina DM canned.

So for 10 days now she has been eating the DM and I just got her some EVO and Sheba. She is NOT drinking much at all now. We get her checked again this week. I am hoping the glucose number has gone down, of course.

My question is how much to be feeding her at this point? She will eat 9 oz or more per day of canned food if I give it to her. Is this too much? She was 16.5 lbs on the last vet visit.

I would appreciate any suggestions on all of this.

Thank you for reading this and I'm glad to have found this site.
 
Hello and welcome to the board!
It sounds like you are getting some mixed messaging from the vet.

Fancy feast classic was a good food choice. Its reasonably priced and low carb. The Hills dry wasnt doing her any favours as you realized since you want a canned cat food with less than 10% carbs - here is a chart that has that data http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

FYI Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70
That works out as about 295 calories a day for a 16.5lb cat. Which is about 3.5 cans of fancy feast a day roughly depending on flavour.(see link above for calories too.)

You could save yourself some money and test her blood at home to see where she is although I suspect she may have to go on insulin for a while to allow her pancreas to heal. A Walmart Relion , strips and lancets will cost you around $30 which is probably cheaper than your next trip to the vet. And if she does need to go on insulin you are going to need the meter anyway.

Wendy
 
Thank you for the reply, Wendy. At her present weight of around 16.5 lb - which may be a little less by now, according to the chart she could have about a can and a half of Evo per day. That's listed at 200 calories/5.5 oz can.

I will post back with her glucose reading later this week as that may help someone else in a similar situation.

Thanks again.
 
Start with that calculation and change the amount if she continues to lose or gain weight. If she does need insulin and isnt regulated she could continue to lose weight.

Will be here and watching for the number! Maybe get a couple, before and after food.

Wendy
 
Wouldn't she be losing weight the past 8 weeks because she is on all canned food? Previously she ate mostly dry.

Another question: the pet food store owner said cats need to have some dry food and he gave me a sample of PureVita dry. It has 31% protein, 18% fat (carbs aren't listed). It is grain free - says "Pure and Natural Holistic".

Is it ok to give her some of that?

Thanks.
 
Pallie said:
Wouldn't she be losing weight the past 8 weeks because she is on all canned food? Previously she ate mostly dry.

Another question: the pet food store owner said cats need to have some dry food and he gave me a sample of PureVita dry. It has 31% protein, 18% fat (carbs aren't listed). It is grain free - says "Pure and Natural Holistic".

Is it ok to give her some of that?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hi and welcome to our family :) I agree with everything Wendy posted.

Just a few months ago, my cat was diagnosed with diabetes. At first I was in denial and took everything my vet said at face value. I have no comment on the pet food store owner (does he/she have a DVM degree?) Carbs are usually never listed on cat food. As for my cats, since Gobbles was diagnosed and I knew better, they never, ever eat dry food--all canned and all less than 7% carbs (and occasionally raw meat). I implore you to go out and get a glucometer asap --the ReliOn is the cheapest (I use the Prime model), easy to use and the strips are the lowest on the market, and should you need to use it regularly, the test strips will not break the bank. We will help you if you are going to home test, really! And we will help you whenever you ask for any kind of help or have questions :mrgreen:


My cat lost weight as well. He has gained 1/2 of what he lost in 2.5 months.

When my cat was diagnosed, the vet sent me home with Purina DM (dry & cans) and would not put him on insulin. His sugar was over 500 and he claimed the diabetes would clear itself up with a change in diet; I immediately started educating myself about Feline Diabetes and fired him (the vet) the next day and found a vet who knew to put him on insulin, supports home-testing, gave me food lists showing carbs in wet food. I suppose some vets make a % off the "prescription" food they push on patients.

At first I thought I would never be able to home test Gobby. Well, I about mastered it in 3 days.
 
While you arent testing, give her whatever you want.

However your pet store owner doesnt know what he is talking about. Cats do not need to have dry food. Carbs are not a natural part of a cats diet. In the wild the only carbs they would get are the contents of the mouse stomach which isnt a lot. Carbs cause diabetes and dry food can contribute to kidney problems down the line. Read this if you arent sure http://www.catinfo.org. Thats the advice from an experienced cat diabetic vet!
Plus while she is on dry, she will likely never go into remission and will need insulin. Her diabetes might even be hard to control and her health poor.

If you want to get control of the situation and have a happy healthy kitty who may even go into remission and no longer need insulin, start home testing and then throw out all the dry. You have already seen an improvement in her by changing her food.. even a little dry can mess with this. Even a tablespoon worth. you'd be surprised and can see the effect for yourself once you start testing.

Its up to you.
 
Ok, she will NOT be getting any dry, just thought I would ask that's all. I will see what her checkup shows Thursday and then get a meter if that's what I need to do.

Thank you.
 
Pallie said:
Ok, she will NOT be getting any dry, just thought I would ask that's all. I will see what her checkup shows Thursday and then get a meter if that's what I need to do.

Thank you.
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Awesome! You're making a great choice for your little sweetie pie :) Can you keep us informed about her?
 
Sure I will post back later in the week. By the way, thanks for sharing your story. I have never had a meter suggested to me before, that was a surprise, but I will get one if necessary.

The vet wants her down to about 12 lbs and I thought she was losing weight because she is now on canned food only. That was one of my questions.

Thanks
 
And one more thing: A cat's (like humans) glucose level (all cats-diabetic and non-diabetic) fluctuates all day long and meal-timing, test-times, insulin (natural insulin found in the body and/or synthetic insulin) have a bit to do with it. I didn't know this at first; in fact, I knew absolutely nothing about diabetes, in humans or cats :) I thought the blood glucose number stayed about the same all day and night long. Just thought that may help you to better understand glucose levels. I really know it can be overwhelming and distressing. It might help you to take a look at "Gobbles SS" below (that's my boy's spreadsheet) -- don't let it scare you, though--it is a good thing, really. Hope this helps ;-) We are here to help you and your kitty
 
ok cool! Let us know when you have the meter.. sooner the better and we can start to really see how she is doing! Its also a good idea because her readings are probably inflated at the vet due to stress... she might be doing better than you think!

She probably is losing weight due to the canned but also it could be the diabetes

let us know how you get on at the vet!
Wendy
 
Hi welcome to FDMB!

If your vet wants your cat to lose more weight the formula Wendy gave you is a good starting point, but remember it uses the cat's optimal weight (you said the vet would like 12 pounds) NOT her current weight! So (13.6 x 12)+70=233 calories a day, not 295. This formula may not be enough to take much more weight off, but as I said it is a good starting point. Dr. Lisa Pierson is the vet who has the catinfo.org site, here is a link to her page on safe weight loss for cats. It is very important that weight loss in a cat is very slow (only 1% to 2% of their current weight per week), to fast a weight loss can lead to complications.

BTW do not let your vet try to sell you a "pet" blood glucose meter. They are very expensive and the strips even more so! Most of here use human meters and so did most of the major studies on feline diabetes. If Target is more convenient for you, their Up & Up meter is about the same price as the Walmart Relion and it received very good reviews from Consumer Reports. You can get strips for it even cheaper online, it is actually the Agamatrix Presto meter, just rebranded by Target.
 
Thank you, Ann - I am not getting alerts when something new is posted and I haven't quite figured out how to get emails on that. So I just now saw this.

My problem with my cat is that she likes her food so much that she will easily eat about 10 to 11 oz/day of either Sheba, FF Classic or Evo. I am keeping track and trying not to give her much until she puts up a fuss. She likes to do that between 4 and 5 a.m. especially!

So even with her current weight of about 16.5 lbs she is over 100 calories/day of what she should be getting - not to mention the vet wants her down, and your calculation is accurate at 233 calories/day for a 12 lb goal.

She was not eating so much when she was getting Purina DM canned only, less tasty I suppose, should I perhaps put her back on that?

I don't know how to handle this but there must be others who have been thru the same. Suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for posting.
 
Let her eat while she is not regulated; once she is getting the amount of insulin she needs, you will see her appetite decrease. Stick with the low carb wet foods..... ff pates are fine as is EVO and others.
My cats were eating close to 30 and 24oz a day but they dropped down to 10 and 6oz once they were regulated.
 
It may help to get a timed feeder and ration out her food in smaller meals. Kazi is the opposite problem - not a big eater at all. I found to get enough food in her throughout the day (and to try and keep her sugar leveled out) she does best with 3 - 4 smaller meals/day vs the normal two my non-diabetic cats get.
 
Just Got the Test Kit

Hi,
Just bought a ReliOn test kit. When is the best time to get the first sample? Any other suggestions as this will be my first attempt.

My cat just ate about 10 minutes ago.

thanks.
 
The most important times to test are before every shot and about midway through the cycle (the period between shots) when they are normally the lowest they are going to go on a dose.

But when learning to test try to get as many spot checks in as you can, not only will it help you fill out the picture on how she is doing on the insulin but also will give practice with testing so that you won't feel so pressured to get it right before her shot times...I even practiced in the beginning on my non-diabetic cats so that I would have it all figured out when it became crunch time right before her shots.

Just remember to give her treats everytime you attempt a test whether you get blood or not and very soon she will come running when she knows it is time to test for those treats. Afterall she is doing her part by letting you try to stick her, not her fault if it doesn't work the first couple of times (and very few of us got it right the first couple stabs - pun intended), so she still gets her yummy treat.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Just Got the Test Kit

Pallie said:
Hi,
Just bought a ReliOn test kit. When is the best time to get the first sample? Any other suggestions as this will be my first attempt.

My cat just ate about 10 minutes ago.

thanks.
Click to expand...
Good Girl!!! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT
 
Just Got the Test Kit

Ok, we tried and she was fairly cooperative - However, after about 6 little stabs I still didn't see any blood. I tried it with the pen deal and then just the lancet, she definitely felt that one but still no blood. Finally gave her a break - me too!

I did massage the ear first, put a little vaseline on it, too. Tried to aim for the outer edge of her ear on the inside - is this all correct?

She is NOT on insulin, I just want to get a reading.

Any help here is welcome!
 
Just Got the Test Kit

I have watched two different videos a couple of times each and yes that picture does help - can't really see that much in a video.

Lancets are 30g and I am using the second notch on the pen so it doesn't go in real deep.

Wendy what do you mean by "nothing behind the ear to press on" ? Do I put a pad or something on the other side? Does it matter if it's the inside or outside of the ear? She is black on her ears so it would be hard to see a tiny droplet of blood anyway.

Is there any other place on her where I could get a sample besides the ear?

Thanks very much. I know we'll get there, I just don't want to keep stabbing at her with no result.
 
I, personally, use Gobby's back paw pads very regularly. A lot of people don't, however, I don't have a problem with it. And I especially use the paw pads if he's had a lot of pokes in the ears. If you try there, warm the paw pad up and be sure to put the antibiotic creme on when you're done :)
 
Yep the lancets are probably too fine.

What i mean is that put something on the opposite side of the ear (underneath) and then poke from the top surface. That gives you something firm to press and lean the ear against. I use a small flashlight since it helps me also see the sweet spot like in the picture. But some people here use pill bottle lids or whatever. A soft thing like a cotton ball might work but i personally dont think its hard enough surface to push against.

Maybe also try deeper on the pen. Their ears can be real tough.

Remember a treat every time, whether you get blood or not!
 
There is, however, a risk of an infection (due to litter box). But I haven't had any problems yet, and with a small lancet, the hole is very small. And same thing as the ear--if you use the paw pad, when you are finished getting the blood (or even if you didn't get blood), put pressure on it with your fingers for about 20 seconds and then apply the creme.
 
Autumn has black ears too so I test on the inside of her ears, I also warm her ears with a rice sock (thinnish cotton sock with rice in the toe & knotted) that I zap in the microwave for about 15 seconds until it is very warm but not hot. Then I just use it to back her ear when I poke. Their ears will 'learn' to bleed as silly as that sounds. You may also need to adjust the deepth setting, start out with it fairly deep and turn it back once you get the hang of it.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Pallie said:
Thank you, Ann - I am not getting alerts when something new is posted and I haven't quite figured out how to get emails on that. So I just now saw this.
Click to expand...

Next time you post, in between where you type your post and the "Topic Review" section is a box with "Options." Make sure to check the box "Notify me when a reply is posted." If it's already checked, your email might be filtering the notifications as spam, so check your junk mail folder.

With lancet pens, you have to do it at a 90 degree angle, flat against the ear. You generally want to start at the lowest setting and work your way up until you draw blood (test this on your finger first!). If you have it set too high, it will go through the ear, usually resulting in little-to-no blood. You want to stick as close to the edge of the ear as possible. Some lancet pens also have the hole where the lancet comes out slightly off-center so check to see if that might be part of the problem.

You can also try free-hand as that might give you more control. *Note: with free-hand, you want to do it at the 45 degree angle as mentioned above because there is no device in the way to "assist" with the depth of penetration.
 
As usual, thanks for all the responses.
I watched and read more on this and did I hear that the needle has to actually go through the ear?

I think I will try the paw next time, I just want her to settle down some as she's kind of giving me odd looks right now! I surely don't want her to be scared or worried whenever I get too close.

Is using the front paw ok? Does that make any difference?

Thank you.
 
no! It doesnt go through the ear. It can, if you press too hard, but thats not the goal. You could try aiming for the vein, it will bleed a little more but it will at least get you started.

Odd looks arent bad. She probably is wondering what your fascination is with her ears ;) Make sure you dont always poke her when you go near her - give her scritches and stuff sometimes without the poking. and treats whenever she gets her ears scratched, even if there is no poking going on.

As usual, thanks for all the responses.
I watched and read more on this and did I hear that the needle has to actually go through the ear?

Whatever paw works for her
Wendy
 
Just Got the Test Kit

Well, the paw method definitely is easier for us and I finally got a little blood from it and - the meter gave me an error code of E-3 !
Maybe tomorrow, she is getting kind of tense.

Thanks.
 
Re: Just Got the Test Kit

Pallie said:
Well, the paw method definitely is easier for us and I finally got a little blood from it and - the meter gave me an error code of E-3 !
Maybe tomorrow, she is getting kind of tense.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Sure. Try again tomorrow :mrgreen: Did you warm it up first? When you do the prick on the paw pad, try "squeezing" the sides of the paw pad and holding---usually the blood comes up, but it takes a little while to get enough for your test. I've even done 2 holes right next to each other to get enough blood. Good luck tomorrow~let us know how it goes for you
 
Pallie said:
did I hear that the needle has to actually go through the ear?
Click to expand...

No! Piercing the ear is unnecessary and actually produces less blood than simply pricking it because the blood is more likely to bleed back into the body (increasing likelihood of bruising) vs. welling up to the surface. If it was my comment that caused confusion, I was trying to express that you don't want to go through the ear, thus the necessity of changing the depth setting on the lancet pen to the lowest/shallowest/least penetration.

For example, my Accu-Chek FastClix goes from 1 to 5. 5 is the deepest, hardest setting and 1 is the lightest. I also have a couple of other lancet pens and it seems all the numbering might be this way, where you want to start at 1 and increase from there until you draw blood. It's worth mentioning that every one of my pens draws enough blood at 1, which is the lowest setting. So, after the first couple of weeks when your cat's ears learn to bleed better, if you're not already at the lowest setting, you might want to try lowering it further.

(I'm fairly "lucky" that most everyone over 40 in my family is diabetic so they keep giving me all their old testing supplies whenever their insurance changes and they get new ones.... It's just too bad they keep using up all their strips or their strips have expired, because I could use those more than spare lancing pens and glucometers!)

The ears are usually suggested first because for most cats, they're easier to access and handle and they're (surprisingly) less sensitive than the paw pads (less nerve endings in the ears). Plus, they don't walk around on their ears using the litter box so there is much less chance of infection. But, ECID and if the paw is easier for both of you, then certainly go ahead and use that. Just make sure to use the Neosporin or some other disinfectant. I've never personally tried testing this way solely because Mikey would never let me anywhere near his feet!
 
No, I'm afraid not. She just got too stressed out and we are getting it checked tomorrow at the vet's. I will post that when I know.

I am hoping that the canned food the past two weeks will result in a lower reading tomorrow.

Is there a way to get alerts on this board? I never know when a new message has been sent to me.

Thanks for checking on us.
 
Can you take your kit and see if the vet will show you?

You can get alerts by subscribing to a post. If you look below there is a horizontal blue bar. It says board index, subscribe topic, bookmark topic on it. Click on subscribe topic and it will let you know when there is a post.
 
Yes, I was thinking the same to take the kit with me tomorrow.

Would any food be better to make that reading lower? I have FF Pate, Sheba Pate and Evo.
I'm just tired of trying to convince the vet that we may be able to get her sugar down with a canned food diet. They sold me Hills W/D dry and that's when her glucose went back up - I know that's a familiar story here.

Sorry, I needed to do a click on the blue line, I'll see if it works from now on.
 
I think it takes a few days to drop. You don't need to convince the vet about canned food. Do what you think is best and then impress your vet with the results ;)
 
Lowest reading yet of 219 - and at the vet's office, too! Vet was quite pleased. She said to just keep doing what I'm doing.

We don't need to do insulin (thank God they were out on the last visit) and she doesn't even need to check her sugar for another month.

She did gain 4 oz in two weeks so have to do some cutbacks on the food or maybe get her moving a little more.

Thanks to all who helped us thru this and the best to you and your kitties.
 
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