How much food should you feed.....

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kse

kse

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I am assuming that the amount of food consumed by a Diabetic cat has a tremendous effect on the insulin. If your cat is eating good--should you restrict food to certain portions to allow the insulin to have the greatest effect?

And, yes-- I am still only dosing once a day. I talked with the vet this morning and she asked to try it for one more week. I actually check last night at +12 and the BG went up 100 points overnight--and Kitty ate like a pig every two hours. I was truly expecting more of an increase.

Thanks for the help!
 
I'm still a newbie and learning the how much part of feeding too. My kitty Max has two cans of Fancy Feast (sometimes a little more) a day. I understand that, with the diabetes, newly diagnosed/unregulated kitties may need more food as their bodies aren't able to metabolize very well what they are getting. My one piece of advice is to feed small meals throughout the day/night. I really noticed Max's BG levels staying more stable with small meals more frequently.
 
I'm a fan of letting them eat as much as they want, when they want. Yes you want to balance the insulin/food equation, but unless you are aiming for them to lose weight, I lean towards letting them self-regulate their food, and then make the insulin work with that. I'm definitely not an expert at all at the food angle though, and there are lots of factors. For instance, if their pancreas is working at all, eating triggers insulin production, so eating can lead to lower #s, though it's counterintuitive. That's why small meals more often can help the procress, b/c it can stimulate the pancreas without overwhelming it like a big meal might. When they are sitting in high #s they can want to eat more, as their body needs more to survive at that point. Basically when unregulated it's a slow starvation I guess, they can eat like crazy but still lose weight.

It's good that his #s aren't going higher than that overnight, but also it leaves him potentially riding for a long period in higher #s, which can defeat any healing you might have gotten from better #s during the day. I really don't understand why vets prescribe SID, I just haven't seen it work as a starting point, and it mystifies me why they would take that approach. Even longer-lasting insulins are prescribed BID. To me it's like taking one aspirin for a really bad headache and waiting to see if it works, and when it doesn't, then taking more. I say ... pop 2 extra-strengths at the first sign of pain and knock it out & feel better fast! No more risk of hypo with BID than with SID (assuming doses are managed well), so other than the convenience of shooting once a day, I just don't see the point. Not criticizing you, just venting a bit. :-|
 
You could set the alarm and get a number at +18. it would be interesting to see how high he goes overnight. It will most likely be a long angle heading up after your daytime nadir.
 
Once again, Kitty ate all night--every two hours. Over a 24 hour period she ate 4 cans of FF-- and would have eaten more if available.

I don't have an answer on why we are still dosing once a day, but the vet seems satisfied with Kitty's numbers. I have shared my home testing numbers with the vet--and she seems satisfied with them. The one thing I do feel good about is Kitty's response to the insulin---it appears she has a good response and is consistent in her numbers. She is gaining weight and seems much better, but she still is drinking more water than usual. She has always been an eater, though she only weighed 10.3 lbs at her heaviest.

I really want to help Kitty become regulated--- and provide her a good quaility of life. I don't think her numbers are terrible, but I would like them to be lower if possible.

Thanks for the support and feedback.
 
if your cat seems to be eating insatiably at any time, that is a sign of unregulated diabetes , because, as you earlier said, they are not able to metabolize the food without sufficient insulin. If you want our help with dosing or you are interested in any recommendations we might have, feel free to post your numbers. Or ask anything else you want to, we like to be helpful.
 
I fully understand wanting to work with your vet and one more week isn't life threatening. But one thing to consider is that the pancreas has a limited time to heal. There is a remission window that varies with each cat. The longer time the cat spends in numbers over 300, the more limited the window.

Your kitty is likely spending 10 of 24 hours in that higher window; a test at +18 will give you an idea. And your morning number is high.

The other consideration is how it feels for the cat. Human diabetics tell us that it feels like riding a roller coaster to move from the highs to the 100s.

We will support you regardless and be ready to help whenever you need it. Just want you to have all the information we have available.
 
Spreadsheet is posted with Kitty's numbers--since I am only dosing once a day, a consistent amount, I am not testing a lot. I always test before dosing---just in case. Kitty has always woke me up to eat, and has always eaten a lot---it just seems she is eating a little more.

The impression I have regarding why I am dosing only once a day is--- I live in an area where most owners either wouldn't treat the diabetes or are just "happy" to think they are doing something. I spoke with a friend yesterday and told her about Kitty being diabetic, and she responded she had a diabetic cat a few years back. I asked her is she home tested, what the cat ate etc....she didn't remember--she just gave him a shot twice a day. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

I have a great relationship with my vet and consider her a friend. She is up to date and proactive, but admitted she has never had anyone home test before. She is receptive to everything I am doing---Kitty goes back next Friday for another curve. How in the world, did Kitty get so low numbers at the vet last week? I haven't tested anything close to those numbers. I am taking my monitor to the vet for a cross reference test this weekend.

It is so stressing to try and do what's right---without really knowing what you are doing!

Thanks!
 
We posted at the same time! You may want to take your meter to the vet and compare with the same drop of blood.

I don't know your financial situation but you can do the curve at home and send results to the vet. Unless the curve is done overnight when the insulin is out of the kitty's body, a curve is going to look okay. You know you are getting decent daytime numbers - that is not the concern.
 
Thanks for the response Sue. I appreciate the support and welcome any information the group shares--It helps me when communicating with the vet. I will test at +18 tonight.

Kitty fasted at the Vet's last week during her curve until the BG value hit 80 (+8)--then they fed her. When doing a curve, wouldn't it make more sense to feed the cat at the normal food consumption rate to regulate the insulin?

I live near a Vet school and have consider taking Kitty there to get her regulated, though I think I could probably do it myself with some courage.
 
Yes, fasting can really impact bg levels. That may be why the vet got low numbers. We like to feed small frequent meals to support the pancreas.

You can't get him regulated anywhere but at home, because of the stress factor. Human diabetics manage their diabetes at home, with frequent testing and doses of insulin based on those numbers. We use the same model.

You are doing all the important stuff - testing and feeding an appropriate diet. You can easily manage and regulate him at home once you get the dose down.

We certainly are in the minority. I had a friend with a diabetic cat the same time frame as Oliver. We tested and changed the diet. They continued to feed dry and had no idea of his bg levels. Their kitty died in 6 months, Oliver was healthy and off insulin in the same time period.
 
As others have said, we're here to help whatever works best for you and Kitty. Every situation and cat is different. I'm in total agreement that this is overwhelming at first. When my cat Max was recently diagnosed, I was overwhelmed, stressed, sad. Although diabetes is a very manageable disease, I think there's a learning curve in the beginning and I was stressed trying to come up to speed (not stressed anymore but am still learning). I found FDMB fairly soon after Max was diagnosed, but it took me a little time to implement all the advice. I started out following my vet's protocol for the first 3 weeks and during that time Max did not make a lot of progress. His numbers came down a little but were still way too high. I really like my vet and am not knocking him. I think he tries to find a good balance of helping the animal but also taking into account expense and affordability, whatever the ailment. In the case of the diabetes, I think vets, at least mine, have a standard protocol that works alright and is easy enough that most people will try it before euthanizing. Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is that Max made leaps and bounds in turning the diabetes around once I started being more proactive on my own and following the advice/protocol on FDMB. I think the protocol here is a bit more proactive and takes a little more time (not a lot) but is so worth it in the end. Your Kitty is so lucky to have you cause you're already proactive, asking questions, and learning. Best wishes!
 
Looks like Max is doing Great! Hopefully I can get Kitty into those types of numbers. I am going to continue this once a day dosing for a few more days--as I know she is better than before any insulin. I also am going to do a curve a couple of nights to see what is going on.

If nothing improves, between now and next week (vet on Friday)--I am going to start twice a day dosing. (Y'all going to be here...right??!!!!)

How old is Max? Just wondering--- Kitty is 15.5 and I wonder if that is playing a role in my vet's conservative method.

I love Kitty and truly want to help her and am willing to do whatever is necessary.
 
We will be here to help. We will encourage you to start with one unit twice daily, test often and increase by small amounts as necessary.

You have probably noticed that most people are increasing by .25 units. To do this, they buy U100 needles and use a conversion chart. (PZI is a U40 insulin and is dosed in whole and half units with U40 needles.)

http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-c ... rinter.htm

Don't forget how much you have already learned in a short time. You are doing great!
 
I got Max as a rescue so his age is a little unsure. We estimate between 6 and 7 years. I've had him 4 years and I think he was 2 -3 years old when I got him. Sounds like you have a good plan with the testing as that will help you see what the insulin is doing through out the SID cycle. I can attest that I needed and received a lot of help from the PZI forum when I first started home testing and adjusting Max's dose. You're doing good. Testing was the hardest part for me. Max just does not like to hold still, doesn't hurt him tho. It's gotten easier, but I'm still working on it.
 
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