HOW IS HE DOING?

Merrie

Merrie

Member Since 2019
So I have Mel on 1.25 of province now, how would you say his pre shot #s are? I am not scheduling
another curve until November.
Comments on the #'s welcome.
 
Mel's pre-shots are not too bad but in order to determine how Mel is doing overall, you need to know how low the current dose of insulin is dropping his BG. Dosing cannot be determined based on pre-shots alone. While a full curve is not necessary and would provide a view of only one day, getting one or two mid cycle tests during the day whenever possible during the expected peak of the insulin's action (between +4 and +7 hours post shot) will give you a much better idea of how Mel is doing. You can randomly test at +4 one day and +5 the next for example to find the lowest point in the cycle. It's also important to grab at minimum a before test every night because our kitties have a habit of going lower at night than they do in the daytime.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Mel's pre-shots are not too bad but in order to determine how Mel is doing overall, you need to know how low the current dose of insulin is dropping his BG. Dosing cannot be determined based on pre-shots alone. While a full curve is not necessary and would provide a view of only one day, getting one or two mid cycle tests during the day whenever possible during the expected peak of the insulin's action (between +4 and +7 hours post shot) will give you a much better idea of how Mel is doing. You can randomly test at +4 one day and +5 the next for example to find the lowest point in the cycle. It's also important to grab at minimum a before test every night because our kitties have a habit of going lower at night than they do in the daytime.
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Thanks, will do. Today he was very normal. I work so I will have to do most of this next weekend. I was running home everyday at lunch but that is not always possible.
 
JanetNJ said:
Great preshots. Try to get more mid cycle numbers
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Hi Janet, I like your video of BG testing, however, what shows on the screen when it is time to touch the blood drop?
I have been doing it after the blood drop icon is showing and the the test strip have bounced
across a couple of times. Is this good or do I need to wait longer?
Thanks,
Merrie and Mel
 
Merrie said:
Hi Janet, I like your video of BG testing, however, what shows on the screen when it is time to touch the blood drop?
I have been doing it after the blood drop icon is showing and the the test strip have bounced
across a couple of times. Is this good or do I need to wait longer?
Thanks,
Merrie and Mel
Click to expand...
As soon as the blood drop shows you can test. Simply dip the little protruding straw where a dot is on one of the sides of the strip.
 
Could someone comment on Mel’s low numbers today? Please see spread sheet. Started the day at 99. It was a no shoot morning, at 10:30 his BG was 231, at 6:30 pm he was only at 187. I gave him his normal dose of 1.25, after testing the strips and machine with the test solution. +2 131, +4 70. I brought him food on the sofa. He ate, will take one more reading before sleep. Do I need to worry? Should I take him to the ER? He is acting ok and is now cleaning himself after his 2nd dinner. He has never been this low sine diagnosis. 1-1/2 months.
 
Hi Merrie. Can you get another test 30 minutes after you feed him? I think that should be in just a few minutes...? How much did he eat?
Edit: and was it the savory selects or the classic?
 
Jenna Josie said:
Hi Merrie. Can you get another test 30 minutes after you feed him? I think that should be in just a few minutes...? How much did he eat?
Edit: and was it the savory selects or the classic?
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I did just that he is up to 126! Are we ok?
 
Jenna Josie said:
Hi Merrie. Can you get another test 30 minutes after you feed him? I think that should be in just a few minutes...? How much did he eat?
Edit: and was it the savory selects or the classic?
Click to expand...
P.s. it is savory selects. He ate over 1/4 can. I hand fed him.
 
Yes, I think you are okay! Two reasons: first, that's a nice little bump he got there from the food; and second, from the mid-cycle data that's on your chart, he looks like he has a "typical" (whatever that means for a cat!) nadir at +6, and you are nearing that now. (Nearly +5 about now, I think?)

That was a close call with the lime greens, though, so you might want to check in another hour (or 30 minutes . . . I'm sure it's getting near bedtime!) just to be sure he's staying up.

Also, if it were me, and especially if I couldn't be home with him tomorrow, I would probably lower the dose down to 1 unit tomorrow morning, assuming, of course, that he is high enough to shoot. He likely will be -- many cats "bounce" after a number that, for them, is unusually low -- but especially since he's still so early in his diagnosis, it's important to keep a close eye on it.
 
Jenna Josie said:
Yes, I think you are okay! Two reasons: first, that's a nice little bump he got there from the food; and second, from the mid-cycle data that's on your chart, he looks like he has a "typical" (whatever that means for a cat!) nadir at +6, and you are nearing that now. (Nearly +5 about now, I think?)

That was a close call with the lime greens, though, so you might want to check in another hour (or 30 minutes . . . I'm sure it's getting near bedtime!) just to be sure he's staying up.

Also, if it were me, and especially if I couldn't be home with him tomorrow, I would probably lower the dose down to 1 unit tomorrow morning, assuming, of course, that he is high enough to shoot. He likely will be -- many cats "bounce" after a number that, for them, is unusually low -- but especially since he's still so early in his diagnosis, it's important to keep a close eye on it.
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Thank you so much for your help.
It is 12:30 am. +6 and he is 130!
Yes I work tomorrow so I will adjust accordingly. Much thanks for your help. It was scary.
 
He is only 170 this morning. Spoke to vet. No insulin this morning. I did put a bit of the appetite stimulant in his left ear, but so far not eating . He never is a really good morning eater.
 
I agree with Jenna (Hi @Jenna Josie :D) I'd reduce the dose to 1u so you hopefully can shoot morning and night consistently instead of having to skip shots. Besides, Mel dropped low enough last night that a reduction was earned anyway. Mel is doing very well. Keep grabbing mid cycle tests when you are able. :D
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I agree with Jenna (Hi @Jenna Josie :D) I'd reduce the dose to 1u so you hopefully can shoot morning and night consistently instead of having to skip shots. Besides, Mel dropped low enough last night that a reduction was earned anyway. Mel is doing very well. Keep grabbing mid cycle tests when you are able. :D
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Thank you both. I will try 1U if he is high enough.
 
Chances are those higher numbers today are bouncing from the lower numbers yesterday. This is normal and doesn't mean dose needs to be increased again. Bounces can last a few cycles so just hold the course for now.
 
Wow! Did he get his BG down from the 260s to 115 PS?! :woot: I’m thinking maybe his little pancreas is kicking in some insulin of its own!

Even though you didn’t give him a shot, it would be very instructive to get a +2/+3 anyway ... if his pancreas *is* doing some work, he should be able to keep in low’ish numbers as his own insulin breaks down the sugars from his dinner.

(hi @MrWorfMen's Mom :D )
 
Jenna Josie said:
Wow! Did he get his BG down from the 260s to 115 PS?! :woot: I’m thinking maybe his little pancreas is kicking in some insulin of its own!

Even though you didn’t give him a shot, it would be very instructive to get a +2/+3 anyway ... if his pancreas *is* doing some work, he should be able to keep in low’ish numbers as his own insulin breaks down the sugars from his dinner.

(hi @MrWorfMen's Mom :D )
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I was wondering about the pancreas healing myself! Hoping for only good news from here on.
 
Jenna Josie said:
Hi @Merrie what’s little Mel up to tonight? :confused:
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Thanks so much for asking.
I came home from work to find a BG in the 400,s. I suspected something because he had peed a lot in the box, like before. Had not seen that in a long while. I took it 2x to be sure. Gave him a larger dose of prozinc. Took BG test around 4 hour mark and it said 33. I thought this was not correct. Chris from the FB group, suggested I take another right away to be sure. He was walking eating and drinking well. I took another, just so I could sleep and it is 123 at + 5. Now we sleep. Tomorrow I will give shot of 1U and try to keep that for a while. It is very hard to do all of this and work. Lol ,maybe I should retire. Oh but then I could not afford all this.
 
Yes, if it were me, I would definitely hold the lower dose for a few cycles, unless/until his BGs indicate otherwise. Since it was just a few days ago that 1.25 sent him too low, I think 1u is good for now to see how he settles. Who knows why they throw those crazy numbers every once in a while, but it's maybe not too surprising given that he hadn't had insulin regularly over the last five days. Hopefully the 1u will keep him in those healing blue/green numbers for you!
 
Jenna Josie said:
Yes, if it were me, I would definitely hold the lower dose for a few cycles, unless/until his BGs indicate otherwise. Since it was just a few days ago that 1.25 sent him too low, I think 1u is good for now to see how he settles. Who knows why they throw those crazy numbers every once in a while, but it's maybe not too surprising given that he hadn't had insulin regularly over the last five days. Hopefully the 1u will keep him in those healing blue/green numbers for you!
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Did a curve today and he did well. Thanks, You have really helped!
His poor little ears need a big rest now,
 
Hello, We had a fur shot today. He turned as I was giving his shot and I guess it leaked out. I am so sad. He was 259 this morning. Will he be ok?
 
Mel will be fine. Do not give another shot. You don't know how much insulin might have got into Mel and how much leaked.

Just curious......what do you mean by 1+ as dose amount. Are you giving dose just over 1u?

I also notice you haven't been getting many if any mid cycle tests and it looks like Mel may still be bouncing from lower numbers and the overall pattern suggests to me it's possible, BG is dropping more than you are aware which could be dangerous. Whenever possible, try to get a mid cycle tests and make it a habit to test every night at least before bed because many if not most cats go lower at night than they do in the daytime.
 
You are such a comfort and so knowledgeable. I value your input greatly. I see your baby eats ff turkey Giblet pate. Mel likes that one the best I think.
Still difficult to get him on a diet of the stuff. When I mix it with the DM Savory Selects he eats around it. Sometimes I sprinkle a little of the flakes from the
Freeze dried treats on it. This sometimes works, and sometimes not so much.


Yes, just a smidge over 1 U. His U40 syringes do are graduated in 1 U increments. I totally realized I haven't been grabbing any intermediate numbers lately.
I will start again. and sometime in Nov, I hope to set aside some time to do another curve. Those test strips are like gold. I think they are more expensive on an ounce per ounce basis than saffron. Thanks for the re-assurance he will be ok with the leaky dose.
It was very upsetting but I know it happens. I left him only classic pate ff turkey and giblet out today.
 
Oh also he is not pooing on a regular basis again. I gave him a GNC Hairball treat this morning as well. I think that shoots his BG up a bit
as well but it works. He is on Metronidazole does that increase the constipation? He never seems in pain or to be straining. Just doesn't go for like 3 or 4 days sometimes.
 
HMMM! That Savory Select I believe is 10% carbs while the FF depending on variety is around 3% so if you can wean Mel off the Savory Select food, it might help bring BG down a bit more as 10% is at the top of what's recommended for a diabetic cat and most folks stick try to stick to under 6% carbs. Also check the hairball remedy for any added sugary ingredients. Not sure what to recommend as an alternative. Might help to post on Health for some suggestions of hairball remedies safe for diabetics.
 
Hello, Mrworfmen's mom, I was reading Bearcat86 exchanges and wondering what is wrong with "getting stuck". Are consistent acceptable numbers a good thing? I was home ill from work today, so I did what I would guess many here do, and did a curve on Mel. He did sink into the the scary side of green but ate and brought it up. Do you agree from the curve and his other numbers he is where he needs to be for his 1+unit? This is just a smidge over the top of the 1U mark. He has been on prozinc since 8/24/19 or so and his dose seems to be doing him fairly well, I think, should I only change doses when the numbers rise significantly or lower? I appreciate your help and input always.
 
It looks like the 1.0+u dose is working well for Mel. I love seeing that nice green in the middle of his cycle. I'd continue with the that dose for now and do a curve again a week or so when you are able. That 76 is getting close to the "take action" number of 68 on the AT2 meter so you really don't want Mel dropping any lower. Hopefully those pre-shots will come down a bit more with time.

I wouldn't worry about being "stuck" with Mel being in decent range. That is more of a concern when a kitty is sitting in high numbers and allowed to stay there too long so his body gets used to the high levels of glucose and starts resisting the insulin action. I don't see that as a problem with Mel.
 
Hello again. Mel was 205 this morning pre shot. This evening he still had a bit of the ff pate I left out for him to graze during the day.
He was hungry but just wouldn't eat any more pate. I understand from reading Prozinc would like you to take AM and PM readings 2 hours after feeding.
I therefore wait to feed until 7:00. If I get home at 5 I feed then. However, this evening Mel is 146 at 11-1/2 hours after am shot.
I have just fed him. If he is over 200 at 7:30 should I give him a shot? He will get a bump because I gave him savory bits instead of the the ignored pate.
What should I do?
Merrie and Mel
 
Did you check BG again? How high are the carbs in the food you gave Mel tonight?
If BG is well over 200 now then I think you are safe to shoot regular dose but do test again a couple of hours post shot to see if Mel is dropping quickly and leave food out for him to eat overnight. .
Your other options are a token dose like 50% or just skip if BG is not rising.

Next time you get a low BG around shot time, best to stall, don't feed and retest to see if BG is rising on its own without food influence. :)
 
Thank you. Due to my work schedule I decided to skip this evenings shot. I considered a token shot but decided against it. He hadn’t eaten in 2 hours and was pretty anxious to eat. The savory bits are clearly at the top of the carb chart, at about 10. However he is a gravy man and always has been.. I give him FF turkey and giblets dinner pate as I can. We have had some success with that but not a lot. That is what I left out for him today as I worked. He had eaten very little of it when I returned home.tomorrow is another day.Thanks for the advice.
 
That's interesting. Can you some mid cycle tests over the weekend and test Mel before bed at night? That extra data will give you a better idea of how Mel is doing. I expected BG might be higher than usual this AM following the skipped shot so a little surprised it wasn't and that's got me seriously wondering just how low BG is going on that 1u dose.
 
Will do good suggestion. Although this morning it was 278 with 1U given PM at +13. So, I think Mel ate less that day than others. This morning he ate little, I may give him a little of the appetite stimulant that he eats better today. Maybe getting ready to bounce again. I read their bodies needs for insulin are ever changing. Seems true with Mellie. I see you are with another form of insulin. Is it similar in formula to Prozinc?
 
Hello, Mel was 173 this morning. I elected to give him token shot of under 1U. came home at lunch 4-1/2 hr + and he read 63. There was neosporin on his ear. does this interfere? Fed higher carb DM Savory bits and too again approx. 7 min later, other ear- reading was 80. He has eaten a bit more, I am waiting for 1/2 hour mark and then I have to get back to work. If he is under or close to 70, I feel like I will have to take him with and all his supplies! What do you think?
Merrie and Mel
 
Sorry Merrie, just seeing this now. Looks like Mel has earned at least one and possibly more dose reductions in the last couple of weeks (since 5Nov19).
There are a number of days/nights where there is no mid cycle testing to know how low Mel might have dropped.

I'd definitely reduce the dose to 0.75u at this point and get mid cycle tests during the day and at minimum a test before bed every night since kitties have a habit of going lower at night than they do during the day. If a test 3 hours after PMPS is same or lower than PMPS, then setting an alarm to retest is a good idea as there is a high probability it will be active cycle. You need to determine how low Mel is going on the 0.75u dose. If he is still going down into the 60s he's too low. Your aim should be to get BG to drop to about 90 or just slightly less. If BG drops below 90 again, reduce the dose by 0.25u again.

I'd also be very careful about shooting ANY insulin, even a reduced dose at a BG of 93 as you did on 14th and then not monitoring the cycle. I have to seriously wonder how low BG might have fallen that day.

I see Mel came back up to 132 and assume you didn't pack him up for work. His BG may be higher tonight due to bouncing but that does not mean you need to adjust the insulin. Stick to a dose of 0.75u for now and monitor unless Mel drops too low again or you get a pre-shot that is too low to shoot.
 
Thank you. Will do. Yes, I did pack him up and he is with me now at work. Very content. I took the corn syrup as well as all his meds and litter and food etc... I just didn't trust my readings. Also, can the Neosporin interfere with the BG reading?
Will touch base for a while with updates if that is ok?
Merrie and Mel.
 
So ,Mel seems to be doing very well on the lower dose. The vet said not to give him a shot under 200. We will perform another curve in December. or Thanksgiving weekend.
Me is eating more pate and less DM Savory. Not his choice, mine. It is difficult. Sometimes I feel like he will starve himself rather than eat the pate. Other times he gobbles it.
He seems less interested in free feeding. More interested in eating only when I am present. Is this indicative of lower BG? I cross my fingers and toes we continue to see lower numbers.

Also, wondering if there is a U40 syringe out there with more graduations. I am only guessing with these U40's. /which have only whole /#'s from 5-20 and lines for graduations which there are basically none below 1 U. would love to find ones with 1/4 1nd 1/2 or .25 and .75 etc. If there is such a beast where can I get them and is the gauge as thin?

Merrie and Mel.
 
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Mel does appear to be doing well although I'd watch out for BG dropping too much. That 63 on the 21st was a little too low. I'd aim not to have Mel drop too much below 90 and I'd drop the dose down just a wee bit more to avoid any surprises.

There are U40 syringes with half unit markings. A lot of folks order them from ADW.
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/search.aspx?keywords=U40 syringes
It appears you don't need a script to purchase syringes in MD but if I am wrong, ADW will let you know soon enough.

You still have to eyeball quarter dose adjustments but it's so much easier with the half unit marking on the syringes.

The other alternative is to get U100 syringes and use the conversion chart for even finer dosing. We can help you with that too if you are interested in going that route.
 
Hello,
Mel was in the 160's last evening and this morning. I did recognize the battery icon came on when the screen started booting for the blood test. The icon showed as the alpha track 2 was ready to take a sample.
I am wondering if the low battery could be giving low readings. I ordered new battery which will be delivered tomorrow by amazon.
Any thoughts?

Also, Mel had a bad night coughing last night. I guess it was his asthma, but it could be something else. Anyway, I used one puff of albuterol last night.
This rarely happens. I think 3 x in the last year.

Otherwise, the flixotide keeps him good with the coughing and has for years.


Thanks,
Merrie and Mel
 
While technically the meter should be reading properly and just giving you a warning to change the battery, I did have one meter (can't remember whether it was the AT2 or my human meter) that gave me what appeared to be high readings when the battery was about to go. Changing out the battery now and being cautious with dosing until the new battery arrives is a good idea.

If Mel had a bad night of coughing due to asthma, one would expect BG would be up rather than down so maybe it is the meter or perhaps Mel's BG is improving. Either way, when you get the new battery and are happy the meter is working properly working, if BGs stay in the upper blue range, you should consider reducing the insulin dose to 0.75u and monitor to see how that works for Mel. If Mel is developing a cold or infection of any kind, he really should be getting some insulin so he doesn't develop ketones. Are you checking for ketones now?

Hope Mel is feeling better today.
 
I have not ever checked keytones. The vet said it is not necessary to check urine. I felt like it might be a good idea occasionally as well, particulary after reading information on this site. Is there a sticky on this site about that? Does cold and infection play some sort of major role in the ketone situation?
Thanks for getting back to us. I am at work but will be home to check him at lunch. I will relay your good wishes to Mel.
Merrie and Mel
 
There is a lot of info HERE explaining ketones and DKA which is a very serious condition that can result from ketones. The recipe for ketones is too little insulin+ too little food+ an infection or inflammation. All 3 do not necessarily have to be present to cause ketones so anytime Kitty is not feeling well or being fussy about food, it's a good idea to check for ketones. They can be controlled if caught early.

Some folks can stick a small spoon or ladle under kitty's butt to grab a small sample while others can hold the ketostix right in kitty's urine stream. Really depends on how "shy" your cat is about their time in the litter box. The other trick some folks use is to crumple up plastic wrap in the spots in the litter box where the cat normally pees to try to catch a sample there.
 
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