How do I know when to talk to vet about reduced dose?

SarahTitus

SarahTitus

Member Since 2019
Hello,

Pmps was just 152. I’ll wait 20 and test again. He's had lower number pre evening shot the past few nights, another where I had to wait and retest. I hate poking more than I have to and he’s been doing decently with numbers the past few days...I know it’s still early, but how do I know when he’s ready for his dose to be reduced?

I have High carb wet food (FF gravy lovers) and honey at the ready should I need it. Thanks!!
 
Have you decided yet if you want to follow SLGS or TR as your dosing method? Each dosing method has a reduction point, 90 for SLGS and 50 for TR. If you see a number below the reduction point, then you reduce.

Can you stay up and get more tests in tonight?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Have you decided yet if you want to follow SLGS or TR as your dosing method? Each dosing method has a reduction point, 90 for SLGS and 50 for TR. If you see a number below the reduction point, then you reduce.

Can you stay up and get more t sets in tonight?
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I think I’m doing TR, because we started at 2 units, so there was no building up slowly. This is just all so new so I don’t feel comfortable making the call alone
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Do you think he will let you test tonight? Even if multiple tests?
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I tested again at 40min after original test and he’s 194 now. Just don’t want to get too far off schedule, as it’s already been hard with the other nights delay and retest and daylight savings. Ughhhh. This life is hard.
 
SarahTitus said:
Have not fed him yet!
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Good job!.....with him raising pretty quickly now without food, I think it'd be OK to give the 2U, but it's going to be important to be able to get at least a +2 in and if that number is lower than the PMPS, it may be a long night.

Do you think you'll be able to test him at least once more (and more if necessary?)

In case you haven't heard of it, here's a video on burrito wrapping a cat
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Good job!.....with him raising pretty quickly now without food, I think it'd be OK to give the 2U, but it's going to be important to be able to get at least a +2 in and if that number is lower than the PMPS, it may be a long night.

Do you think you'll be able to test him at least once more (and more if necessary?)

In case you haven't heard of it, here's a video on burrito wrapping a cat
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I can stay up if I need to. I’m just sick too. But I don’t go into work until 2pm tomorrow so I can sacrifice sleep if it comes down to that.

Should I go ahead and feed and shoot and get another shot 2+?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
That's what I'd do....Feed, shoot and get a +2. Hopefully @Wendy&Neko or @Bron and Sheba (GA) will be up later to check on you too.
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Awesome, thanks!! Just did that. I grabbed the higher calorie FF pate, so hopefully that will help too. He’s not a fan of the DM as much, which I’ve been trying to use up, so he didn’t eat as much of his late lunch. Is it worth talking to the vet about going down to 1.5?
 
A little housekeeping note....On your spreadsheet, the number you put in the Pre-shot column is always the number you actually shoot.....so if you stalled 45 minutes until he was 194, the 194 is his PMPS.

You can either put the previous numbers in the +11 cell or stack all of the numbers in the PMPS cell.

You can put 152 @ +12, 170 @ +12.5 in the +11 (you'll have to color code it yourself) and put 194 @ +12.75 in the PMPS cell (that lets us know you stalled for about 45 minutes) or put all 3 numbers into the PMPS column
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
A little housekeeping note....On your spreadsheet, the number you put in the Pre-shot column is always the number you actually shoot.....so if you stalled 45 minutes until he was 194, the 194 is his PMPS.

You can either put the previous numbers in the +11 cell or stack all of the numbers in the PMPS cell.

You can put 152 @ +12, 170 @ +12.5 in the +11 (you'll have to color code it yourself) and put 194 @ +12.75 in the PMPS cell (that lets us know you stalled for about 45 minutes) or put all 3 numbers into the PMPS column
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Thank you!! I was not sure how to enter those!
 
SarahTitus said:
Is it worth talking to the vet about going down to 1.5?
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We are a little more aggressive than most vets....but we want our kitties to be as healthy as possible and maybe even go into remission.....so we make them "earn" reductions.

That's why it's important for you to make a firm decision on TR or SLGS (and put your choice into your signature)

On TR, they don't "earn" a reduction until they drop below 50 on a human meter.

On SLGS, they earn a reduction when they drop below 90
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
We are a little more aggressive than most vets....but we want our kitties to be as healthy as possible and maybe even go into remission.....so we make them "earn" reductions.

That's why it's important for you to make a firm decision on TR or SLGS (and put your choice into your signature)

On TR, they don't "earn" a reduction until they drop below 50 on a human meter.

On SLGS, they earn a reduction when they drop below 90
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Okay, I’m just afraid I’m going to continue to run into having to stall and get off track. I appreciate all your time and thoroughness!! My vet has been so unhelpful that I actually found a new, cat specific, vet. My old one continued to tell me I did not need to test him more than 1-2 times a week.
 
Eventually, as you gather more data and gain more experience, you'll gradually reduce the number you're willing to shoot at Pre-shot.

I did TR with China and I got to the point where I'd shoot anything over 50...but I had lots of data and I knew how she responded to both food and insulin by that point! She was the tightest regulated cat on the message board for several years! (feel free to look at her spreadsheet)
 
[QUOTE="(feel free to look at her spreadsheet)[/QUOTE]

Oh I have! I look at almost everyone’s I come across to get a feel of their process and see what they did in similar circumstances. I’m terrified of him going hypo, and I’m sure that will lesson as I get more comfortable in time.

Someone had commented telling me people who are new to this shouldn’t shoot if their cat is under 150 without checking in with experienced member, so I definitely wanted a second opinion.
 
SarahTitus said:
Someone had commented telling me people are new shouldn’t shoot if their cat is under 150 without checking in with experienced member, so I definitely wanted a second opinion.
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Absolutely correct!!….We have a tradition here...if we encourage someone to shoot lower for the first time, we either agree to stay on as long as necessary to make sure everyone is safe and comfortable, or we find someone who can.....and if we can't do either, we will tell you up front that we can't stay

You did the exact right thing tonight...Stalled, didn't feed and retested until he was obviously on the way up!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Absolutely correct!!….We have a tradition here...if we encourage someone to shoot lower for the first time, we either agree to stay on as long as necessary to make sure everyone is safe and comfortable, or we find someone who can.....and if we can't do either, we will tell you up front that we can't stay

You did the exact right thing tonight...Stalled, didn't feed and retested until he was obviously on the way up!
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Great...going forward, as long as I am able to get a +2 do you think it’s okay to shoot on my own at 130+? As you said, he is a big boy, so I’m sure he really is fine haha
 
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SarahTitus said:
going forward, as long as I am able to get a +2 do you think it’s okay to shoot on my own at 130+?
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The first few times you shoot under 150, I'd really recommend having someone experienced watching over you.

His weight is only relevant in regards to the starting dose...it doesn't matter as you get more shots in and our #1 concern here is always to keep kitty safe. Cats don't like to be predictable.....just because they always did X before, doesn't mean they won't do Y without any notice.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
The first few times you shoot under 150, I'd really recommend having someone experienced watching over you.

His weight is only relevant in regards to the starting dose...it doesn't matter as you get more shots in and our #1 concern here is always to keep kitty safe. Cats don't like to be predictable.....just because they always did X before, doesn't mean they won't do Y without any notice.
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Perfect, will do! Thank you for that feedback. I’m an err on the side of caution type of person, and a second opinion never hurts, especially in the case of FD. I just didn’t want to be annoying and block up the board if others need help.
 
Hello Sarah and Titus.

Nice Shooting.
I'm just getting up so I'll be around @Chris & China (GA) if any help is required.

SarahTitus said:
Just don’t want to get too far off schedule, as it’s already been hard with the other nights delay and retest and daylight savings.
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When you stall what you are looking at is seeing which direction the numbers are heading to help you make a decision. One thing you can do to get the same information, and avoid getting off schedule is to grab a +11. That allows you to see how the numbers are trending and if the +11 is lower than you are used to gives you time to get some help on the board early on and to formulate a plan hopefully avoiding having to get off schedule.
 
Gill & George said:
Hello Sarah and Titus.

Nice Shooting.
I'm just getting up so I'll be around @Chris & China (GA) if any help is required.


When you stall what you are looking at is seeing which direction the numbers are heading to help you make a decision. One thing you can do to get the same information, and avoid getting off schedule is to grab a +11. That allows you to see how the numbers are trending and if the +11 is lower than you are used to gives you time to get some help on the board early on and to formulate a plan hopefully avoiding having to get off schedule.
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His +2 was just 254, so we’re good for tonight! Thank you for your help and that’s a good process to start.
 
SarahTitus said:
His +2 was just 254, so we’re good for tonight! Thank you for your help and that’s a good process to start.
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I agree, looks like a bounce.

I would suggest you always get a before bed test, even if you are shooting a yellow. The +2 can often be a good indicator of how active the cycle is going to be, if it's significantly lower, you know to test again, or leave more food out
SarahTitus said:
I was planning to go to bed now. I’m sick. Will do a reading when I wake up tomorrow. He will have had a 5am feeding by then too.
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I think Bron cross posted with you, you're OK to get some rest.

You said you gave higher calorie food? Do you know what %carb that was? higher caolorie is not necessairly higher carb
 
I
Gill & George said:
I agree, looks like a bounce.

I would suggest you always get a before bed test, even if you are shooting a yellow. The +2 can often be a good indicator of how active the cycle is going to be, if it's significantly lower, you know to test again, or leave more food out

I think Bron cross posted with you, you're OK to get some rest.

You said you gave higher calorie food? Do you know what %carb that was? higher caolorie is not necessairly higher carb
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Ive been trying to get more evening numbers but he fights me more at night. I think he’s over all the poking by then and to be honest, I’m exhausted by then too.
I gave him the FF chicken pate. He has an auto feeder I set up for 5am of half a can of DM.

If I wake up in the middle of the night I’ll try to get another test.
 
SarahTitus said:
s but he fights me more at night.
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Are you giving him treats every time you poke? A lot of us use freeze dried treats, 100% meat.


I desensitised George to having his ears poked by playing with his ears, not poking and then giving him a treat. He also got used to the wrattle of the strips and would come to get his ears poked when I shook the strip bottle (well really he was coming for the treat.
Hopefully the testing will get easier for both of you.


SarahTitus said:
I gave him the FF chicken pate. He has an auto feeder I set up for 5am of half a can of DM.
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Excellent the autofeeder is a great tool.
 
Gill & George said:
Are you giving him treats every time you poke? A lot of us use freeze dried treats, 100% meat.


Excellent the autofeeder is a great tool.
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I do give him freeze dried treats. He eats them but still freaks out and pulls his head away constantly. I have tried different locations, kind of sitting on him between my legs, try to get him sleeping.... Just as I’m trying to get the droplet he’s pulling away or smearing it. He’s started to growl and hiss. Unless it’s preshot, I stop after 3 attempts. I’ve thrown away sooooo many strips for ‘not enough blood’ readings.
 
You might find it easier to get the blood drop onto your nail and then test from there, it is difficult when they get squirmy.

Do try just playing with his ears a lot, and pretending to get a drop with the meter, not just when it's test time and treating him for that, especially when the two of you are enjoying some relaxing time together. Some kitties do just take a little longer to accept the new routine. You've not been at this for long so you are doing great, it just takes a bit of time patience and perseverance, I'm sure you will get there.:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Now just get yourself to bed.
:)
 
Gill & George said:
You might find it easier to get the blood drop onto your nail and then test from there, it is difficult when they get squirmy.

Do try just playing with his ears a lot, and pretending to get a drop with the meter, not just when it's test time and treating him for that, especially when the two of you are enjoying some relaxing time together. Some kitties do just take a little longer to accept the new routine. You've not been at this for long so you are doing great, it just takes a bit of time patience and perseverance, I'm sure you will get there.:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Now just get yourself to bed.
:)
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I haven’t been able to use the meter to his ear once haha I always get it with a finger and test from there. I think I finally found a process last night that worked where I kind of pin him between my hip and my bed sitting on an ottoman. I tell him every time how he’s a good boy and how well he’s doing and ask him to make it easy on us both. I’ve been playing with his ears every chance I get. He was annoyed by this before Dx, and now he really doesn’t like it, but oh well.

He was 118 just now at +9.5. Removed food for AMPS in ~2 hours.
 
@Gill & George His AMPS is 141. Do you think he’s okay to get shot this am, as it’s upward trending from his +9? I can test him again in +2 or +3. Or should I stall and retest in 20 first?
 
Hi Sarah,
I'm sorry no one was around to help you.
Looks like you shot a 97 with 2 units....the normal dose, and you have a +1 of 265.
Well done.
That 265 looks more than a food bump so Titus is probably bouncing from the low preshot.
I'd get one more test in just to confirm he is not going to drop again.

I hope you are feeling better now.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Sarah,
I'm sorry no one was around to help you.
Looks like you shot a 97 with 2 units....the normal dose, and you have a +1 of 265.
Well done.
That 265 looks more than a food bump so Titus is probably bouncing from the low preshot.
I'd get one more test in just to confirm he is not going to drop again.

I hope you are feeling better now.
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Thanks for getting back to me. I made another post as well and had some help! I’ll get a +2 as well. He’s eaten about half and has his autofeeder set to 5am as well, so another can coming then. It’s setup in my room so I can monitor his progress closely.
 
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