Hoping for another good day-copper

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owlgal

owlgal

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Cooper's amps is 280. So i guess the 1.5u was probably not enough. So i'm trying to decide to go with the 1.6u or 1.8u today. DOn't know what his nadir was last night so just have to go with the amps and last nights pmps. So thinking 1.6u or 1.8u?

Lori
 
Go with your gut, Lori. 1.6 is a safe choice but maybe won't move the process along. But if you won't be around and won't feel safe, do that. 1.8 may be a good choice if you will be around at least around nadir (I think you said you would). Again, think of this as data gathering, not a dose that can make THE difference.


You know what to do if he goes lower at nadir. But even your lower numbers have been safe numbers at these doses under 200.
 
Ok, not a good day. I should of given the 1.8u, but was thinking too much for today. Now his pmps is @303. His amps was 280 and his day was flat in the 200's except for tonight. If it were daytime, i would go for the 1.8u. BUT, since nighttime, i was thinking the 1.6u. Hoping this won't put him behind. I guess the momentum was killed with the 1.5u last night. If amps is in the mid 200's-mid 300's i will go for the 1.8u. I will be around for nadir time.

What are you thoughts?

lori
 
I will have to agree on the 1.8u. Will probably give tomorrow morning, depending on the amps. I gave the 1.6u(fat) tonight. I don't plan on testing tonight-need to get up too early to teach school.

Question: If i want to get him on an earlier schedule(before 10:30), can i give at least 1hr early each day? Need to get him back on 8:30 schedule.

THANKS!!
lori
 
If possible we recommend going in 15 minute increments...but that is only if possible
There will be times you can not shoot on time
 
Weird day! It's almost like he didn't even get insulin today. I know it wasn't a fur shot. Maybe where i shot him on his body today? Just don't understand. Could it just not of absorbed?????

Another cycle to come i guess....

Can i shoot a ittle earlier today(+11) to try and get back on schedule?

lori
 
Opps! Your post most of come in while i was posting. You said only 15min earlier at a time(cycle)?

lori
 
As long as he is going up, you should be fine. Are you thinking 1.6 or 1.8?

That will help you get back on schedule, right? I would give him a cycle before making the next adjustment.
 
I think Denise's approach is best when you are adjusting a kitty in regulated numbers who might react to the early dose as extra insulin. I know Lantus users do the 15 minute increments because they have to consider the shed.

Since he is in the 300 range, I think you will be okay. Be sure to monitor, and maybe the more conservative 1.6?
 
You know i'm not sure tonight after today. Not sure if it didn't absorb right or maybe have it too high? Just not sure what to do now. He seemed to do good last night on the 1.6u. Today has thrown me for a loop.

WHat are your thoughts?

Thanks!
lori
 
Thanks! I was leaning more towards the 1.6u too. I was looking back on SS and on Dec 13 and 14, he did ok in lower dose and than changed to a higher dose and he reacted the same way. So that is why i was thinking towards the lower dose. It seems like his body doesn't like going up higher? Am i thinking the wrong way? Should i be looking at patterns like that?

lori
 
I tested amps and first got @245. Couldn't believe it so did it again and came in @ 260. My instincts were right. The 1.8u was too high and thus his higher numbers yesterday. Not sure why his body does this, but from looking at his past SS he has a pattern of this(i.e. Dec 13, 14). So that's why i tried the lower dose last night and got a LOWER AMPS this morning. I hope this will stay steady towards the downward direction. Can only hope for a good next 24hrs. Debated whether to give the 1.6 or 1.5u today, but went with the 1.6u today. Might try 1.5u tonight depending on how his day goes. We shall see.

Have a GREAT day everyone!

lori
 
You are doing a great job thinking this out, Lori, and using your past numbers to see trends. Wonderful! Nice amps - how the day is promising.
 
Ok, just throw out the clothes with the bucket water and starting all over again. I need som experienced SS'ers to read and tell me what they see. I went lower dose last night and got a lower amps. SO went lower again today and had a small invert curve , but mostly flat day. So what does this mean? Too much, or Too less. Or just wait it out?

My gut instincts are to go lower, say 1.5u tonight and see what happens to amps. Of maybe just hold the 1.6u. I'm thinking that the 1.6u is too much that he is trying to heal on his own very slowly. But this is from me and I don't have a clue about any of this stuff. I feel like i'm a doctor making life and death decisions everyday, but with NO training or understanding of disease. Very frustrating....

I should of dosed him 15min ago, but got home later than though and wanted to see what your thoughts would be first.

lori
 
You are NOT making life and death decisions, Lori. Cooper isn't going to die if you go up or down in dose. He is in pretty safe numbers - they are no 400-500 numbers or any 40s. You are getting 200-300s. Even if he goes low, you know how to deal with it.

I think either up or down will give you data that will help. I would pick a dose tonight - whatever you think, maybe 1.6. If you will be home tomorrow, I would consider the 1.8. It's the dose that has given you the most blues and greens. See what happens.

Your other choice is to change insulins. Lantus has a protocol that will tell you exactly what to do. We just can't give you that with ProZinc. It is a do it yourself insulin and requires experimenting with doses. And we aren't experts who have the answers. Dr. Lisa didn't have the answers. She was working with doses and collecting data.
 
So basically, were all on our own collecting data and guessing what to do. I just thought that more experience people that have dealt with this disease for years, would understand it better that just trying a move here or there and maybe it will work maybe not. There has got to be some trends and patterns that SS show, that when you see them you can recognize WHAT this shows....... So i guess that is not sO?

Oh, Boy, we are in for a ride of our lives with me in the dirvers seat.

lori
 
Hi Lori,
First off, you need to breathe...please dont over analyze the numbers
you are stressing so much every day you will drive yourself nuts
NOw for dosing
I am in agreement with SUe
Ithink you should shoot 1.8 and hold for awhile unless you have an unusually low number
the 1.5 and 1.6 you are not seeing blues and greens which is what you want.
It is the nadir that matter most...
hang inthere!
 
If you read back through this thread, Lori, my advice has been pretty constant - consider 1.8. The only time it changed was when you needed to shoot early. I do try to base my advice on the patterns I see in your spreadsheet, but I won't pretend to be an expert and I am certainly not a vet. I try to be conservative as I don't want to put any cat in a dangerous situation. This is a small forum and there are not a whole lot of people regularly giving dose advice.

My hope is that we give you some basics and then you start to use your spreadsheet to help you with doses. It might be helpful for you to read back through the threads with Dr. Lisa and see if her advice helps you.

It might also be helpful to read the threads over on the Lantus forum. That insulin has a set protocol that you follow - if you see this number, you do this. That may be a better fit for you.
 
Sorry guys if i sounded upset. I really wasn't, just frustrated as usual with my lack of understanding. I just feel so unqualified to do any of this and my copper suffers for it. I HATE THAT! I do appreciate your input. If it wasn't for your input's, i don't think i would know anything. Thanks for being patient with me! I just don't know what to do when i have a low amps and i shot a lower dose. So do i stay with the dose that gave a lower nadir even though it was a higher dose and don't worry about the amps or pmps number? Dr. Lisa taught me to look at the current cylce ps the last cycle ps and nadir. But when i don't have a reading for nadir, then i must look at other cycles or guess. I'm just so confused about this. Sorry. Wasn't sure what to do the morning i got a 240's reading and didn't know if i should give the 1.8u on that or stay with the lower dose of 1.6u the night before. So now i think i understand it better. Stick with the dose that gives the lower nadir reading no matter the ps number? Unless of course the ps number is below 200. I think i got it.

I gave the 1.6u(fat) this morning because i was afraid to go up too high to fast. He was on a lower dose last night and it shows this morning(348). Strange he seemed so like himself this morning and very loving. Actually jumped up on my lap and cuddled. I guess he is so used to the higher numbers that he doesn't know how to act with lower numbers.

Well, anyway. I will try to get back on the 1.8u cycles and see how he goes. I will try to give tonight and test for nadir if possible.

Please be patient with me, i'm learning.

THANKS again for all your help!

lori
 
Believe me we all understand how upsetting and frustrating this can be
We just dont want to see you get burnt out because you stress over every number
That is not healthy for you and Copper can sense that.
You are doing really well with the dosing,
just start to trust yourself
 
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