Hometesting number is 506!

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Tracey&Jones said:
How long do you usually hold for? I usually just do a sec or two but he still gets bruises. I thought it was because I got to close to the vein.
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Longer than that, usually (depends how eager my cat is for her poky treat!). I shoot for at least 20 seconds, but don't always make it!

If you're close to the vein, that definitely doesn't help matters-- on occasions when I accidentally hit the vein itself, I made sure to apply pressure for as long as possible to try to keep bruising down, but it does happen.
 
Hey @S. Russman , just checking in to see how things are going so we can start to think about the PM shot. Some things to think about:

-- in general, we would like the pre-shot BG values to not be food-influenced, so most people take food up (if free-feeding) about two hours prior to shot time (don't worry if you haven't done that for tonight, not sure if we mentioned it in the blizzard of other info we were sending your way!)

-- with Vetsulin, Timmy should have a good meal "on board" when he gets his shot, so he should eat 20-30mins beforehand.

-- in general, if you are unsure of what to do dose-wise after getting a pre-shot number, post here before feeding the pre-shot meal. Sometimes (I don't think tonight!) if the number is low the advice will be to wait a bit then test again-- it's good if that second number doesn't have a food influence, either.
 
Thanks for checking in on me tonight.

I just tested at 9:00. He did not eat for about 2 hours before the test. Final number for today is 408. He just finished eating his wet food as I was posting. Oops.

How would you dose?

Susan
 
Nan & Amber said:
Longer than that, usually (depends how eager my cat is for her poky treat!). I shoot for at least 20 seconds, but don't always make it!

If you're close to the vein, that definitely doesn't help matters-- on occasions when I accidentally hit the vein itself, I made sure to apply pressure for as long as possible to try to keep bruising down, but it does happen.
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I took your advice on testing the ear and it went a lot smoother tonight and he was not so testy. Every little victory gives me more confidence. So thank you.
 
No problem on the mealtime! Like I said, that's really just something for when he throws you a number lower than you'd like to shoot (like he did yesterday) and you want to get a sense of where he's trending. He's pretty high tonight, so that's not an issue.

I don't feel that I am experienced enough to give specific dose advice, so I'm hoping someone who is will pop on here soon. I think the default would be to hold at the 2U you shot this morning-- he's 100 pts lower pre-shot than he was then, but still pretty high and the 2U didn't bring him too low. Given that he did his drop in the first couple hours, though, you'd definitely want to check him early in the cycle.

In the meantime, did you manage a ketone test yet? Especially when he's running at these high numbers, you'll want to keep an eye on that-- ketones are a serious medical situation, can develop very quickly, and are much easier (and much less expensive) to treat in the early stages.
 
Hi Susan,
If it were Smoky I would try 2 units again, maybe 2.5 if you can get in a before bed test. Can you monitor him tomorrow or do you have to work then? It can take a few days for a bounce to clear his system.
I thought at first to give Smoky a higher dose whenever his BG was really high, 500's to over 600. He would nose dive on the vetsulin and then shoot up high again.
Now I adjust his dose depending on both preshot numbers and nadir- his lowest point.
 
Nan & Amber said:
No problem on the mealtime! Like I said, that's really just something for when he throws you a number lower than you'd like to shoot (like he did yesterday) and you want to get a sense of where he's trending. He's pretty high tonight, so that's not an issue.

I don't feel that I am experienced enough to give specific dose advice, so I'm hoping someone who is will pop on here soon. I think the default would be to hold at the 2U you shot this morning-- he's 100 pts lower pre-shot than he was then, but still pretty high and the 2U didn't bring him too low. Given that he did his drop in the first couple hours, though, you'd definitely want to check him early in the cycle.

In the meantime, did you manage a ketone test yet? Especially when he's running at these high numbers, you'll want to keep an eye on that-- ketones are a serious medical situation, can develop very quickly, and are much easier (and much less expensive) to treat in the early stages.
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I have not done a ketone test yet. He doesn't like anyone too near while he uses the litter box, but that is about to change. I am determined to get this done. If I can hometest, I can collect some urine.

I didn't mean to put you on the spot with the dosing, I'm just trying to get a feel as to what others would do, because I have no clue. Although I am thinking maybe going a bit lower than 2 units tonight. Hypo terrifies me. I'll wait though to see.
 
Stick with giving the two units tonight if you are comfortable with that. He is your kitty and it's better for him to be high for a minute than too low for a moment. A favorite saying I hear all the time on this site.
 
Ah yes, the shy litterbox user! One trick that some people use is to crumple up some plastic wrap in a "favorite spot" of the litterbox, then go dip the ketone stick in one of the puddles (you really only need a tiny bit).

How long can you monitor tonight? That might be a determinant of how aggressive (or not) you want to be on the dosing.

I wish I could offer more specific help on dosing, but I just don't know enough about Vetsulin. :(
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Hi Susan,
If it were Smoky I would try 2 units again, maybe 2.5 if you can get in a before bed test. Can you monitor him tomorrow or do you have to work then? It can take a few days for a bounce to clear his system.
I thought at first to give Smoky a higher dose whenever his BG was really high, 500's to over 600. He would nose dive on the vetsulin and then shoot up high again.
Now I adjust his dose depending on both preshot numbers and nadir- his lowest point.
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I was initially thinking going lower than the 2 units, but that is my fear of hypo talking. He did okay today on the 2 units, although he started higher. I will give him the 2 units. I will be home tomorrow to monitor him. I also need to check his urine so I don't miss something. There is so much to learn and I'm starting to understand a little more with each post. Adjusting his dose depending on preshot and nadir is foggy, but I am getting it. I graphed the curve today and a flicker of understanding started. Yay.
 
Nan & Amber said:
Ah yes, the shy litterbox user! One trick that some people use is to crumple up some plastic wrap in a "favorite spot" of the litterbox, then go dip the ketone stick in one of the puddles (you really only need a tiny bit).

How long can you monitor tonight? That might be a determinant of how aggressive (or not) you want to be on the dosing.

I wish I could offer more specific help on dosing, but I just don't know enough about Vetsulin. :(
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The plastic wrap is a great idea. I am determined to get it. I will be monitoring him through the night anyway, but I'm scared to be too aggressive with the units tonight.
 
S. Russman said:
I was initially thinking going lower than the 2 units, but that is my fear of hypo talking. He did okay today on the 2 units, although he started higher. I will give him the 2 units. I will be home tomorrow to monitor him. I also need to check his urine so I don't miss something. There is so much to learn and I'm starting to understand a little more with each post. Adjusting his dose depending on preshot and nadir is foggy, but I am getting it. I graphed the curve today and a flicker of understanding started. Yay.
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You are learning faster than I am.:smuggrin: it took me a few months to get the hang of sliding scale dosing. I am still learning about adjusting dose according to pre shot and nadir readings. I switched smoky to prozinc because his body was absorbing the vetsulin too fast and not lasting more than 9 hours. Keep up the good work with Timmie. You are doing a great job.:D
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
You are learning faster than I am.:smuggrin: it took me a few months to get the hang of sliding scale dosing. I am still learning about adjusting dose according to pre shot and nadir readings. I switched smoky to prozinc because his body was absorbing the vetsulin too fast and not lasting more than 9 hours. Keep up the good work with Timmie. You are doing a great job.:D
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Thank you for the kind words. I have been feeling very overwhelmed and I appreciate it so much.
 
Nan & Amber said:
I think I'm going to have to check out soon (crashing)-- when you get the +1, could you post it? (even if you aren't worried or looking for advice on it, this is just for me :D)
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Sorry about not getting back. We lost power last night and just got it back about 30 minutes ago. All the electronics are acting wonky now. So bear with me. Last nights test at +2 was 387.
Vetsulin 2 units was given at 10:00 last night and test at +2 was 327. Down from 408.

Working on the spreadsheet right now.

This morning tests are:

**8:30 tested at 403
Ate wet food
Injected 2 units at 9:00.
Snacked on a little dry food at 10:30

**Tested at 12:00 at 326 + 3 hours
Ate wet food at 1:00

**Tested at 2:00 at 287 +5 hours

By the next test I hope to have the spreadsheet uploaded, which will help a lot.
 
Looks good so far. It's good to try not to give food for two hours before each test though. That way the BG numbers you get are not influenced by food. I'm so glad your power is back on. I had to test Smoky by candlelight and lantern before when our power was out. Let me tell you that was no small feat:joyful:
 
I was able to get the spreadsheet up and running. This is going to be a great tool once I know how to read it. ;) His numbers only came down about 116 points today, but he started about 100 points lower than yesterday. The lowest was 287. Should I continue testing every two hours until the next dosing? Oh, how I wish I had started home testing right away. I would have such a clearer picture. He only nibbled a little on the dry food and that was this morning. He has had more wet food today. I am not sure if I need to be, but I'm concerned that the lowest he went on both days was 277 on 2 units.

Thank you all for your guidance, reassurance, and support.

Susan
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Looks good so far. It's good to try not to give food for two hours before each test though. That way the BG numbers you get are not influenced by food. I'm so glad your power is back on. I had to test Smoky by candlelight and lantern before when our power was out. Let me tell you that was no small feat:joyful:
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Shoot I'm sure that was in the posts, I must have overlooked it. I'm leaving the dry food out for him just in case. If he comes looking for food don't I need to feed him. Confused because vet said to leave out the dry so he would come looking for food to help balance the insulin.

Yeah, turns out a tree limb fell on a transformer down the road. The kids had fun, but testing by flashlight was not.
 
Can you leave out some wet food for him or do you have other kitties who will steal it.:) I believe you said you are transitioning him from dry to wet food.
Actually, 277 is not that bad of a number, it's in the yellow range on spreadsheet. Look at Smokys SS and you'll see what I mean. BG numbers in the blue and yellow ranges are good ones to have. I worry when Smoky drops down into the green numbers, especially below 50 on my relion meter.
 
S. Russman said:
I was able to get the spreadsheet up and running. This is going to be a great tool once I know how to read it. ;) His numbers only came down about 116 points today, but he started about 100 points lower than yesterday. The lowest was 287. Should I continue testing every two hours until the next dosing? Oh, how I wish I had started home testing right away. I would have such a clearer picture. He only nibbled a little on the dry food and that was this morning. He has had more wet food today. I am not sure if I need to be, but I'm concerned that the lowest he went on both days was 277 on 2 units.

Thank you all for your guidance, reassurance, and support.

Susan
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You could test every two hours in the first half of cycle with vetsulin. Sometimes I do a mini curve on Smoky. I test him at +3, +6, and +9 hours after his shot. Any data you can collect is good and will give you something to refer back to.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Can you leave out some wet food for him or do you have other kitties who will steal it.:) I believe you said you are transitioning him from dry to wet food.
Actually, 277 is not that bad of a number, it's in the yellow range on spreadsheet. Look at Smokys SS and you'll see what I mean. BG numbers in the blue and yellow ranges are good ones to have. I worry when Smoky drops down into the green numbers, especially below 50 on my relion meter.
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I do have another kitty, a torti. I'm trying to switch her to wet food as well. I'll leave some wet food out and see if it will work.

I looked at Smokys spreadsheet and I see what you mean. He hangs out in the lower yellow numbers. do you think, that over time, his starting numbers will come down on Vetsulin? I noticed on Smokeys spreadsheet from 2016 that his starting numbers were high until you switched to Prozinc. I know it hasn't been enough time on Vetsulin, but I am disappointed that it poops out and Timmy's numbers go back into the red.
 
Hi Susan,

Great job getting the spreadsheet going. :)

Are you able to keep monitoring closely over the next few days? If yes, you could try progressing the transition to low carb only - especially as Timmy seems to be getting less interested in the dry by the sound of things.

You could leave out some wet food for grazing (but make sure your tortie doesn't nick all of it! :) ). By testing regularly you'll be able to see how the food change is affecting BG levels and reduce dose if necessary.

Once the food change is safely completed and Timmy has a few days to settle you could then work on refining insulin dose.


Mogs
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Mogs is absolutely right about the food changes. I had to adjust smokys insulin dose after he went to all wet food. He needed a much smaller dose as the low carbs wet food lowered his BG's significantly. I would give the vetsulin at least two months to see if it works on Timmie or not. Remember, once Timmie is eating all canned food he may need less insulin and the combo of that and the vetsulin may lower his numbers.
Smoky was on prozinc for about three weeks before I noticed any changes.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Susan,

Great job getting the spreadsheet going. :)

Are you able to keep monitoring closely over the next few days? If yes, you could try progressing the transition to low carb only - especially as Timmy seems to be getting less interested in the dry by the sound of things.

You could leave out some wet food for grazing (but make sure your tortie doesn't nick all of it! :) ). By testing regularly you'll be able to see how the food change is affecting BG levels and reduce dose if necessary.

Once the food change is safely completed and Timmy has a few days to settle you could then work on refining insulin dose.


Mogs
.
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I will leave some wet food out and see what the other cat does and adjust accordingly. I just really want to switch to the wet food completely as soon as it is safe to do it.

Timmy's test tonight was 426 on 2 units of Vetsulin. He did not eat two hours prior to the test. Should I increase his dose slightly tonight?
 
Susan and Timmy said:
I will leave some wet food out and see what the other cat does and adjust accordingly. I just really want to switch to the wet food completely as soon as it is safe to do it.

Timmy's test tonight was 426 on 2 units of Vetsulin. He did not eat two hours prior to the test. Should I increase his dose slightly tonight?
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With the food transition going on it might be better to hold the dose. Allowing for meter reading variance Timmy's BG tonight is pretty much the same as last night's PMPS.

Are you testing for urine ketones? Does Timmy have any history of testing positive for ketones or DKA?


Mogs
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I have the plastic wrap in the litter box and am trying to persuade him that he needs to go. Ketone test strip on the ready. If I put the dry out tonight would it be safe to dose him. He nibbled on it today, but I was pushing the wet.
 
Susan and Timmy said:
If I put the dry out tonight would it be safe to dose him. He nibbled on it today, but I was pushing the wet.
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A lot of cats run a bit lower at night so leaving out the kibble for Timmy overnight's a good idea while you're transitioning.

As Lisa advises above, always grab a 'before bed' test on each PM cycle.

Now all you need is for Timmy to 'perform' ... ;)


Mogs
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You can check with your vet if they have beads you can use to collect a urine sample. I get them from my vet when I need to bring in a urine sample to check for crystals in his urine. The urine rolls off to the side and you can put the urine test strip in to check for ketones. A friend of mine buys a big bag of dried peas to use to test her cats urine for ketones. She just washes them and dries them and reuses them again.
 
I am determined to test his urine. He is quite offended by the plastic wrap in the litter box. He is a talker and he is voicing his displeasure.

I will start doing a before bed test. That will help with my peace of mind.
 
A before bed test saved my girl's life. (A vet told me to hold a dose when I thought it should be reduced. I was still an FD novice and although I thought he was wrong I lacked the confidence to go against his recommendation - a mistake I never made again.)


Mogs
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I was able to test his urine. I just held a small bowl under him as he went. Yay.

It showed trace. Now I'm freaking out. What does this mean?
 
Do you still have the rest of the urine sample?

If yes, run a second test and be very careful about the timing of when you read off the result against the colour chart. (There's usually very little difference colour-wise between negative and trace and the test panel tends to darken with time.)

BRB ...


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Do you still have the rest of the urine sample?

If yes, run a second test and be very careful about the timing of when you read off the result against the colour chart. (There's usually very little difference colour-wise between negative and trace and the test panel tends to darken with time.)

BRB ...


Mogs
.
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I retested it 4 times. I timed it in the urine for 15 seconds and read it right away. At first it looked like it was negative and then I kept looking and it was more toward trace. Then it was trace.
 
Just making sure I understand properly:

At the 15 second mark the test strips read negative but after the 15 seconds the strips got darker. Is this correct?

.
 
Also, did you keep the test strip immersed in the urine for 15 seconds before removing it and reading it against the test chart?

What brand of ketone strips are you using?

.
 
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