Home testing and Food
- Thread starter shawna
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Rachel
Very Active Member
My cats all eat Wellness canned. We used to eat Friskies but had to switch when they discontinued what we liked!
As for testing at home: I always tested preshot of course. I got a nadir whenever I could (usually on the weekends or days off). I tested +2 or +3 after PM shot (before bed test) most nights so I could see where she was going. Then I did a curve every few weeks or if I just felt I needed one because the numbers got wonky. I would also grab a test at night if I..ahem...woke up for any reason
. It was just as easy to run downstairs and grab a quick test while up!
Pretty much, at first especially, you want to grab tests when you can so we can see what's going on. As you figure out your kitty's patterns, you usually can test at key points during that pattern, changing the test times as needed.
As for testing at home: I always tested preshot of course. I got a nadir whenever I could (usually on the weekends or days off). I tested +2 or +3 after PM shot (before bed test) most nights so I could see where she was going. Then I did a curve every few weeks or if I just felt I needed one because the numbers got wonky. I would also grab a test at night if I..ahem...woke up for any reason
. It was just as easy to run downstairs and grab a quick test while up! Pretty much, at first especially, you want to grab tests when you can so we can see what's going on. As you figure out your kitty's patterns, you usually can test at key points during that pattern, changing the test times as needed.
shawna
Active Member
Thanks. Is the Young again dry food? Can I leave that out for Theodore when I am at work since it is zero carbs? He stopped eating all dry food so I don't know if he would even eat it - but I like the thought of having food available in case he is hungry? Or should I just try to feed only at the two shot times and snacks if needed?
shawna
Active Member
My cats all eat Wellness canned. We used to eat Friskies but had to switch when they discontinued what we liked!
As for testing at home: I always tested preshot of course. I got a nadir whenever I could (usually on the weekends or days off). I tested +2 or +3 after PM shot (before bed test) most nights so I could see where she was going. Then I did a curve every few weeks or if I just felt I needed one because the numbers got wonky. I would also grab a test at night if I..ahem...woke up for any reason
Pretty much, at first especially, you want to grab tests when you can so we can see what's going on. As you figure out your kitty's patterns, you usually can test at key points during that pattern, changing the test times as needed.
Thank you!! Is your cat laid back about being tested? Theodore is starting to really growl and hiss when he even thinks I'm going to do it. Not good!! I hope I didn't mess up somehow. It can't be hurting him that bad? I think he has other pain real bad so he might just be getting irritated with me. I don't know but I hope this all gets better!
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
I leave it out all the time. You can get a free sample if you ask them.... Youngagainpetfood.com
I honestly credit this food with helping get my cat into remission.
Blair & Freya
Member
The food thing is a battle with Freya, as she's proving very sensitive to carbs. So we're still trying to find her holy grail. For now, she's on UK Whiskas 7+ Selections in Jelly (poultry and fish types). Not ideal, but the UK cat food situation isn't great either, and I'm okay with feeding her this until we find something better. It's 3.87% carbs. There's some great stuff in places like Germany though, so a lot of UK folks order from the internet, which is what I've been doing. I haven't lived in the US for five years now, so not sure what the food situation in stores is like over there, but you may be able to find more options online than locally anyway if he doesn't take to Fancy Feast for whatever reason. Freya's got some MAC's brand to try soon, which is between 1% and 2.5% carbs. As you try different foods, you'll figure out what works for Teddy or what doesn't. It just might take a bit of trial and error, if he turns out to be a carb-sensitive guy like some of them or has any other issues. I wish there was something like Young Again that I could get in the UK at a decent price. Would love to have some dry to stick in an automatic feeder sometimes.
I always test her before each shot. Sometimes there's the odd low number where you can't safely inject at all, so this is important. I do my best to always get one at nadir, or as close to it as possible, and try to get at least one before bed each night. If she's having a lower night, I'll wake up and check her at nadir time. If there's anything out of the ordinary, or anything changed, I will test as often as possible. My biggest concerns are from +4 to +6 hours since that's when she tends to be lowest. I guess the simplest way to put it is I do it as much as I can, but if she's having a higher day, I'll give her ears a break.
Here's a very handy link to a carb calculator. I also downloaded the CarbCalc app for iPhone, which is basically the same deal -- a carb calculator specifically for cat food. It's great for making notes of stuff in stores or from websites, and you can save the info to your food library.
I always test her before each shot. Sometimes there's the odd low number where you can't safely inject at all, so this is important. I do my best to always get one at nadir, or as close to it as possible, and try to get at least one before bed each night. If she's having a lower night, I'll wake up and check her at nadir time. If there's anything out of the ordinary, or anything changed, I will test as often as possible. My biggest concerns are from +4 to +6 hours since that's when she tends to be lowest. I guess the simplest way to put it is I do it as much as I can, but if she's having a higher day, I'll give her ears a break.
Here's a very handy link to a carb calculator. I also downloaded the CarbCalc app for iPhone, which is basically the same deal -- a carb calculator specifically for cat food. It's great for making notes of stuff in stores or from websites, and you can save the info to your food library.
Djamila
Very Active Member
Hi Shawna! Great job getting started with Theodore's spreadsheet! I'm so sorry to hear he's having such a hard time with walking and pain. He's seen the vet recently, hasn't he? That is concerning that he isn't walking at all now, so if it's possible, I would at least call and talk to the vet about what's happening with his legs.
As far as your questions on this thread: I usually tests Sam 3-5 times/day. Always before the two shot times, and as often as possible near the two nadirs. Sam has a pretty consistent nadir around +4 or +5, so he makes it easy for me. The fifth test is either because something is concerning me (he's acting funny, the cycle seems active, the cycle is flat, etc.) or because I'm checking to make sure his nadir is still in about the same place. As Rachel said, it does move around. Typically on prozinc it's between +5-7, but many cats hit their low point earlier than that. As you collect data, it will start to become clear.
I rotate what I feed my cats because they'll get bored with a food and then refuse to eat it. So it's like a kitty restaurant at my house. The good part of that is that they aren't all that picky. The bad part is that I have to keep mixing it up for them. So they eat some variety of: fancy feast classics, friskies pates, Primal freeze-dried, Primal frozen, Nature's Instinct Raw (frozen: chicken or rabbit), and then there is usually some rotating variety of food off of the food list.
I do not feed them dry food. There are many health problems that can be caused by dry food for cats, so even if it's low carb, I think it's just too risky.
Here is a link to the food list: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
And here is a link to a thread where Dr. Lisa talks about dry food in pets: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ust-carbohydrate-content.175004/#post-1943357
As far as your questions on this thread: I usually tests Sam 3-5 times/day. Always before the two shot times, and as often as possible near the two nadirs. Sam has a pretty consistent nadir around +4 or +5, so he makes it easy for me. The fifth test is either because something is concerning me (he's acting funny, the cycle seems active, the cycle is flat, etc.) or because I'm checking to make sure his nadir is still in about the same place. As Rachel said, it does move around. Typically on prozinc it's between +5-7, but many cats hit their low point earlier than that. As you collect data, it will start to become clear.
I rotate what I feed my cats because they'll get bored with a food and then refuse to eat it. So it's like a kitty restaurant at my house. The good part of that is that they aren't all that picky. The bad part is that I have to keep mixing it up for them. So they eat some variety of: fancy feast classics, friskies pates, Primal freeze-dried, Primal frozen, Nature's Instinct Raw (frozen: chicken or rabbit), and then there is usually some rotating variety of food off of the food list.
I do not feed them dry food. There are many health problems that can be caused by dry food for cats, so even if it's low carb, I think it's just too risky.
Here is a link to the food list: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
And here is a link to a thread where Dr. Lisa talks about dry food in pets: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ust-carbohydrate-content.175004/#post-1943357
shawna
Active Member
Thank you so much for your reply!!!!
I hope you get the food situation sorted for your kitty. Thank you so much for sharing what you do with her. Xoxoxoxox
shawna
Active Member
Awesome information, thank you!!
I smiled when you wrote it's like a kitty restaurant at your house!
Theodore is so picky so before when all this first started and I had to switch from dry food (which I wish I had known his whole life not to give him only dry food!) but anyways when I was transitioning I'd open like three or four different cans until he chose one LOL. He is spoiled and picky
Yes I need to talk to my vet. I called yesterday but they want me to bring him in Thursday for another curve - and we could talk the the receptionist said. but since he freaked out so bad last time and his bs spiked to crazy high levels from stress I just don't want to bring him in. I want to do it at home. So I'll call to talk to the vet tomorrow to see what she says.
I'm really worried about his legs but I am hoping so badly they will get better with more stable blood sugar? That's what I was told might happen and I know it might not either, but I'm praying it does get better! And I'm going to do the b12 supplements too.
Today I noticed he was a little better on his feet but he will not get up ever unless I pick him up and put him down to use the bathroom. Then he will slowly make his way back to the couch. I just get worried that he will fall climbing up the three little stairs to get to his spot on the couch. I think he will be ok but I always worry about my fur baby!
Cherish Gallagher
Active Member
I test before each shot and at least 1 day time test (usually nadir) and if I'm feeling extra paranoid I'll have my bf who's a night owl test her at night before he heads to bed. Of course this changes if she decides to do something crazy lol
For food we feed EVO dry because we have a non diabetic cat in the house who will not touch wet food no matter what we have tried. So we needed something that won't hurt Angel and is acceptable for Miyu to eat as well. With angel we feed her wet food that is not patè and 10% or less. I've found a lot of gravy foods that are 10% or less and those are her fave. A lot of purina pro plan. Only bad thing is is that the foods I given her are way more expensive than just buying a case of pate. I'm spending between $1.50-$1.75 a day to give her wet food.
For food we feed EVO dry because we have a non diabetic cat in the house who will not touch wet food no matter what we have tried. So we needed something that won't hurt Angel and is acceptable for Miyu to eat as well. With angel we feed her wet food that is not patè and 10% or less. I've found a lot of gravy foods that are 10% or less and those are her fave. A lot of purina pro plan. Only bad thing is is that the foods I given her are way more expensive than just buying a case of pate. I'm spending between $1.50-$1.75 a day to give her wet food.
shawna
Active Member
Question - ok when a preshot is 89, which Theodore's was tonight - I did not give any insulin (Janet thank you for helping me!!!)
But my question is - does that mean I don't give any insulin until morning if the preshot determines I need it? What if his blood sugar gets high tonight? Do I just leave it alone until morning?? That's the only part I'm worried about ?
And in the morning I have to go to work....so if his blood sugar is low will it be safe not to give insulin again for the second time in a row????
Thanks in advance if anyone can help! xoxoxo
But my question is - does that mean I don't give any insulin until morning if the preshot determines I need it? What if his blood sugar gets high tonight? Do I just leave it alone until morning?? That's the only part I'm worried about ?
And in the morning I have to go to work....so if his blood sugar is low will it be safe not to give insulin again for the second time in a row????
Thanks in advance if anyone can help! xoxoxo
shawna
Active Member
Thank you so much for sharing with me!! I'm going to have to check out the purina gravy because Theodore does love gravy! He ate dry food his whole life so this whole ordeal had been an expensive chance, but I am more than happy to do anything it takes for him of course. Although I do wish he would get a job though, haha, just kidding Lol
Cherish Gallagher
Active Member
You don't have enough date to see how he reacts to shooting at low levels, so until you do, don't shoot anything under 200. So no, don't give him anything tonight and if he is low in the morning, don't give him anything again.
not giving insulin is a good thing.
Cherish Gallagher
Active Member
Same.
Rachel
Very Active Member
If you give insulin later, you'd need to move your morning cycle back so it would be 12 hours later. Since you have to work, that probably won't be a good option for you, so I would just wait until morning. If he's still too low in the AM, you can skip the shot again. More than likely, he'll be high (but don't let that upset you...it's natural after a NS).
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
No shot at all until tomorrow... Even if it goes higher later. If it's still under 140 or so then no shot tomorrow. Let's see what happens. If it's low then it's a lot safer to not give a shot than to give him one that will cause him to go too low.
Blair & Freya
Member
Try not to let the thought of him being temporarily higher worry you too much. It's way more preferable for his BG to be higher for a time than too low from too much insulin.
shawna
Active Member
Oh yeah true, that makes sense about the 12 hours and thanks for the heads up about it may being high, thank you!
shawna
Active Member
Thank you all SO MUCH!
the one thing I don't understand is that his am preshot was 158 and then +9 hours it was 117 (I had given one unit of insulin in morning)
But then three hours later at his pre pm shot, it was down to 89.
Does that mean his nsdir(?) lowest point would be at 12 hours since his preshot was lower than his 9 plus test?
(And if I'm not making sense please just tell me and I'll just keep observing data instead of trying to figure this out ? Lol)
the one thing I don't understand is that his am preshot was 158 and then +9 hours it was 117 (I had given one unit of insulin in morning)
But then three hours later at his pre pm shot, it was down to 89.
Does that mean his nsdir(?) lowest point would be at 12 hours since his preshot was lower than his 9 plus test?
(And if I'm not making sense please just tell me and I'll just keep observing data instead of trying to figure this out ? Lol)
Yong & Maury GA
Very Active Member
From my experience, it's an indicator the AM dose is too high. Maury's last curve 14 April resulted in a dose decrease.
shawna
Active Member
Oh that's interesting to me. Do you have to do a bunch of curves before you can really switch the dosage? Because some days are not like today was. I know I've only observed data for a short while but it seems like a couple curves would be needed?
And I need to figure out if it's ok to ever give him a small snack because tonight he didn't eat all his normal amount (he had no insulin because his test was low) so I gave him food at 3+ because he looked hungry....it was just a little bit, but I don't want that getting in the way of accurately figuring out his dosage. But I don't want him to be hungry either. I wait at least two hours to test him if I give him a Little more food - and I don't usually do that but tonight I did. just need to see if that's ok or not. I don't want him to be hungry.
Yong & Maury GA
Very Active Member
I don't always need a curve to tell me if Maury needs a reduction, if he has a drastically lower PMPS I do, what I think are called, a micro dose reduction. It's what I'm fiddling with right now. I'd like to see some blues and dark greens in his AM cycle again 
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
If the morning PS is high enough you should give insulin. It might actually be a little higher because of the no shot tonight. The dose you give tomorrow AM will depend on what the BG is so post here is you're unsure.
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Personally I think it's not that the nadir is at 12 hours but that the pancreas is waking up! But I do agree that at that level 1 unit is too much.
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JanetNJ
Very Active Member
That's totally up to you. I have 6 cats so leaving dry is what I do but they all also get wet twice a day.
They will send you a free sample of the Young Again Zero carb food if you call or email. Youngagainpetfood.com
raun cesar
Member
She loves the Friskies, and for testing i did at least twice daily. You can use carb calculator for idea
Djamila
Very Active Member
Shawna, I disagree with the advice you were given to shoot below 150. You have very little data at this point, you're away from the house most of the day, and Teddy's responses to the insulin would all make me very cautious about dosing right now. If it was my cat, I don't think I would be shooting below 170 at this point, and maybe not even that low.
Our first rule here is to keep our kitties safe, and shooting on low numbers when you can't be home to monitor just isn't safe until you have enough data to know that he isn't going to drop too low.
As for the snack question: yes, definitely okay to give snacks! Most/many of us either free feed (leave food out all the time), or feed several small meals during the 12 hour cycle (either b/c we're home, or by using a timed feeder that opens during the day). One strategy is to get mid-cycle numbers is to test, and then give the snack so it isn't food influenced. Because I free feed, I just test whenever I want to and don't worry about if they've just had something to eat. The only time I worry about the two-hour rule is before the AM and PM dose times.
Thinking ahead to the weekend: will you be around a lot on Saturday or Sunday to do a curve? And what is Teddy eating right now? If I'm remembering right (and forgive me if I'm not!), he's been eating the glycobalance, and you were going to start transitioning him to FF, is that right?
Our first rule here is to keep our kitties safe, and shooting on low numbers when you can't be home to monitor just isn't safe until you have enough data to know that he isn't going to drop too low.
As for the snack question: yes, definitely okay to give snacks! Most/many of us either free feed (leave food out all the time), or feed several small meals during the 12 hour cycle (either b/c we're home, or by using a timed feeder that opens during the day). One strategy is to get mid-cycle numbers is to test, and then give the snack so it isn't food influenced. Because I free feed, I just test whenever I want to and don't worry about if they've just had something to eat. The only time I worry about the two-hour rule is before the AM and PM dose times.
Thinking ahead to the weekend: will you be around a lot on Saturday or Sunday to do a curve? And what is Teddy eating right now? If I'm remembering right (and forgive me if I'm not!), he's been eating the glycobalance, and you were going to start transitioning him to FF, is that right?
jbfrank
Member
Take a look at your 4/28 PM and your 4/29 AM numbers. Your +5 readings seem to be a better reflection of the nadir.
I'd agree that your 5/2 PM number is probably due to bounce. The 1.o U dosage at a BS of 158 would appear to be too much based on your data set.
Now that Teddy's glucose levels are in a 'reasonable' range, you'd probably be better served by partial unit dosing below a level of 250 mg/dl or so.
I'd suggest doing a mini-curve if you are comfortable with the nadir time. Get the AM and PM numbers and bracket the +5 presumed nadir time by maybe an hour or so on both sides. If the BS on the first bracket number is lower than the value of the second bracketed number, then the actual nadir would be in between those two times where the glucose curve changed direction (think of the bottom part of a U). After you are confident and get a consistent nadir time you can move to a 3 point curve. But getting the nadir number (or close to it) is critical, so make sure you have a high level of confidence in it.
Good luck...it looks like Teddy's making progress!
shawna
Active Member
His morning ps was 256 so I gave him 1 unit.
I checked him as soon as I got home from work at 4pm and that was 10+ hours and it is 117.
Should I still text him again at 6pm, which is two hours later then when I tested when I got home ....it will be at 12+ hours.....and I'm assuming I won't be giving him insulin tonight then
shawna
Active Member
Thank you!
shawna
Active Member
I will be home both Saturday and Sunday and I can do curves both days if needed!
Yes you are right about his food. I have been feeding him like half of each....I want to switch just to fancy feast but sometimes he won't eat enough of it and he will eat more of the royal canon. But I'm trying to do more fancy feast and ween off the royal canon completely. I'm going to look into the friskies and purina pro too, I think is what I read. Gotta double check.
When I tested him at 4pm, when I got home from work, he was 117 (I'm using the human meter , I hope people just know this or was I suppose to specify??) but, I probably won't be giving insulin tonight right???? I don't see it going up before I feed him right?
Is it healthy for a cat to be between 200-300 bs?
I am just asking because I worry about what if after he eats his blood sugar gets really high? I'd have to wait until morning. See that's where I'm still confused.
shawna
Active Member
The 4/28 numbers are not accurate because the vet had told me to give Theodore 4 units of insulin....because he got too stressed at the vet and his blood sugar was through the roof... so I can't really take 4/28 and 4/29 into consideration for his "normal" right, since it was due to excessive insulin?
shawna
Active Member
Thanks for this information! I am not fully understanding what you are saying, but I pretty much get it....I am rereading...are you saying to test him every hour until I find his lowest point? To find the nadir?
Doesn't the nadir time change based on insulin given and how much/when food is given??
I do understand the U concept....
I really appreciate you explaining this to me. I get it but a part of me is still a little confused.
shawna
Active Member
Or maybe I am wrong! But I do know that 4 units was too high so that's why he got so low - but now I'm thinking maybe it doesn't matter what the actual numbers are, but just the time it makes the U curve ??????
Djamila
Very Active Member
For tonight: You should test at +12, because cats sometimes go up as much as 100 points in the last hour. Cats who are trying to go OTJ may not, but we aren't sure what Teddy is doing just yet, so do the test (I know, I hate doing extra tests too, so you have my sympathy!)
If he isn't high enough at +12, you can try to stall without feeding for another 20 minutes and then test one more time to see if he's rising. If he's rising, you can consider a dose, but if he's flat and still too low, you skip. You can post your +12 and someone can chime in at that time to walk you through that.
If he isn't high enough at +12, you can try to stall without feeding for another 20 minutes and then test one more time to see if he's rising. If he's rising, you can consider a dose, but if he's flat and still too low, you skip. You can post your +12 and someone can chime in at that time to walk you through that.
Djamila
Very Active Member
You're right that the 4/28 cycle doesn't count. But the reason it doesn't count is that you intervened in the cycle with high carb food. So the numbers, and the rise that you see there, aren't a reflection of his nadir, they are a reflection of the food you were giving him to intentionally make them rise at that point.
Getting a curve this weekend will be great! On Saturday morning, start a new thread that is titled something like "Curve Day" and we can help you with it. More directions on that in a minute....(I want to try to get to all the questions!)
Djamila
Very Active Member
You don't need to keep saying which meter because you're using the spreadsheet for human meters, however, you might add it into your signature to help people out.
A non-diabetic cat's BG is usually between 50-120. A cat on insulin will ideally have pre-shot numbers in the lower 200's, and nadirs close to 100. We always love seeing the greens (50-99), but those require a bit more monitoring. It can sometimes take awhile to get to those ideal numbers, but Teddy looks like he may be headed that way already.
If you skip a shot and his BG goes really high, you do need to wait until morning. That's why we try really hard to get the doses right so you don't have to skip. That's also why the stalling technique is used. Skipping shots has to happen sometimes, but we do our best to get two shootable numbers a day.
shawna
Active Member
What does OTJ mean?
Great, excellent! I will do that Saturday morning. Thank you for all your help!
Great, excellent! I will do that Saturday morning. Thank you for all your help!
shawna
Active Member
Oh this is all starting to make sense now!!!!!! I'm so thankful!!!!!!!!
shawna
Active Member
Well he chowed down before I read this.... uh oh.... ??
Blair & Freya
Member
"Off the juice", as in remission, no more need for insulin.
Djamila
Very Active Member
My gut right now is thinking to go with either a 0.75u or a 0.5u dose. I'm leaning toward the smaller dose.
One really important thing we believe around here is the idea that "you hold the syringe" We can give our opinions, but none of us know you, your cat, or your circumstances, so the decision about what you think is right, is always up to you. And it's always okay to disagree with someone's opinion. I say that because the dose right now is going to come down to what you think is best.
So what do you think?
One really important thing we believe around here is the idea that "you hold the syringe" We can give our opinions, but none of us know you, your cat, or your circumstances, so the decision about what you think is right, is always up to you. And it's always okay to disagree with someone's opinion. I say that because the dose right now is going to come down to what you think is best.
So what do you think?
shawna
Active Member
shawna
Active Member
Yes Janet had given me some good advice yesterday saying 0.5 when it's around this number also.
Well to be honest with you, I still don't feel confident enough to know what I think is best. That is why I thank you all from the very bottom of my heart. i am going to use your recommendation because at this point I feel you guys know what is best. But I totally understand what you mean with what you are saying.
Thank you....I hope you know you really are a life saver....you and everyone on this site. I would have never been able to do all this without you all. I would have been in the dark fumbling around and poor Teddy would have suffered more. So when I say thank you a million times it's because words just can't explain how thankful I really am. You are saving my best friends life with this help you are giving me. Theodore is my heart (as I know your kitties are to each of you) -- so thank you and I'm going to give him the 0.5 dose - and I can check as many times tonight as needed.
Xoxoxoxoxo
Djamila
Very Active Member
I still ask for advice on my kitty too! It's just nice to know if I'm in the ballpark of what other people are thinking and I appreciate the peer-review aspect that we check one another's advice.
I want to clarify that my suggestion of lowering the dose wasn't because of the PS number. It was based on the long cycles that you're seeing. One unit seems a little too high for Teddy right now. Figuring out whether to go to 0.75 or 0.5 is because of the overall numbers, not just the 161 that you have right now. Does that make sense?
I would recommend that you lower both doses - AM and PM since your PM numbers are a little too low right now. So as we consider the .5 vs .75 question, do you think you would be comfortable with drawing up a 0.75u dose (in the morning)? It's a little tricky because there isn't a line for it.
I want to clarify that my suggestion of lowering the dose wasn't because of the PS number. It was based on the long cycles that you're seeing. One unit seems a little too high for Teddy right now. Figuring out whether to go to 0.75 or 0.5 is because of the overall numbers, not just the 161 that you have right now. Does that make sense?
I would recommend that you lower both doses - AM and PM since your PM numbers are a little too low right now. So as we consider the .5 vs .75 question, do you think you would be comfortable with drawing up a 0.75u dose (in the morning)? It's a little tricky because there isn't a line for it.
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