Holding Steady Tigger

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lizhazel29

Member Since 2013
Had to start a new feed - the other one got too long.

Wendy - you mentioned that I wasn't shooting consistently twice a day - does this mean consistently 1 unit or consistently shooting anything. I am a wee bit nervous when he's in the low 100s to shoot an entire 1 unit dose. Since I don't have a 'no shoot' number, I'm trying to be consistent with a 1 unit or just a skinny 1 or even a chicken **** dose.

If he stayed level like this for the past few days, I'd be pretty happy. :)
Liz
 
Lantus works best i most cats if the AM and PM dose are the same. Your SS shows that not to be true. Sometimes, based on data, a slight difference between AM and PM dose does work better.
 
Hey Liz!!

You need to find a dose you can give every 12 hours...that's what Wendy meant..consistently shooting the same dose, every 12 hours unless Tigger earns a reduction.

If you're more comfortable, I agree that maybe you should go ahead and reduce him to .75u and give it every 12 hours and see how he does. If you get a number that makes you nervous (the no-shot number)..do NOT feed, and wait 30 minutes and retest. We want to see if his blood glucose rises on it's own (without influence of food) so you can shoot as soon as possible to the 12 hours.

There ARE times when you might want or need to skip...low pre-shots when you absolutely can't be there to test for example, but to give Tigger the best chance of going into remission, he needs to get the Lantus consistently..and you'll eventually learn to shoot lower and lower numbers (that's why we're so crazy on testing...it teaches YOU how your cat reacts to insulin and food, so you can feel safe if you shoot a lower number)

There's almost always someone here to help, so if you get a pre-shot that makes you nervous, just stall, don't feed, and post for help. Someone will try to help you through those first scary times when you think you're crazy for shooting a "xxx"...but it does eventually get easier, and as well as Tigger is responding so far, I think he has a good chance of going OTJ.

Print this out and keep it handy..just in case nobody is available to help guide you through quickly enough.Shooting and handling Low numbers

Don't worry...you'll get the hang of it!
 
Thanks Chris - I"m trying to do the absolute right thing for my little Tiggmonster to make sure he's as health as he can be. I see the lower 100 numbers and get nervous. I'm going to try .75 dose consistently now to see how he does. I'll do this for the next couple of days and do some in between testing if I can. (during the week is harder...)

OMG right now he's in the bathtub chasing a twist tie...AND MAKING A LOT OF NOISE DOING IT..

Such a little stinker. How can you not want to make him the best he can be!
Liz
 
Sounds like he's having a blast!! One of the big changes I noticed in China after a little while on Lantus was she was beginning to PLAY again! I had thought she was suffering from "Old cat", but now that she's regulated, she acts like she's drank from the Fountain of Youth and lost 8-9 years somewhere

It truly is amazing and such a wonderful thing to watch as they return to the cat you "used to know"...and it'll happen with Tigger too. China started this journey with a body condition score of 2 out of 10 and looked like a walking skeleton. Her coat was awful and she didn't do anything but sleep, EAT and PEE

Within a few weeks of starting this dance, I happened to notice her "preening" and realized I hadn't seen her do that in a long time...then she started to put the weight and muscle back on as well as becoming more active and playful again. If anything is a "miracle" drug, I'd have to say insulin is it. Her body condition score is now a perfect 6..not too skinny, not too fat, well muscled and looking wonderful! (I really need to get some new pictures of her)

You're in the best place you can be to do the best things for Tigger..we all understand since we've been where you are. People from this board held our hands when we were new, scared and overwhelmed, and we're just "paying it forward". Soon you'll be telling your stories to some new person and telling them of the improvements you see in Tigger, the fears you have overcome, and giving the old "If we can do it, you can too" speech!!
 
:)

Wouldn't know what to do without you guys and the invaluable information on this site. When he was first diagnosed, I read so much my vet was blown away... I don't know how to thank each and every member that's helped me.

Tigger (Tiggmillion, Tiggmonster, Millions of Tiggers) is sleeping now after having a 1 hour play time in the bathtub!

I'll keep ya posted on how he does on .75 units.
Liz
 
Chris covered everything I was going to say.. Tigger is doing really well right now and I think he might even do better so we want to keep momentum going if we can. You probably will need to shoot low at some point - but lets try 0.75 for now. It looks like your current no shot number is 125. Maybe reduce it to 100 ( as long as you can get a test a few hours later)

Wendy
 
He was 89 this morning and I wasn't at home today so I didn't shoot. (and I had to leave and couldn't wait an hour - stupid work interferes with my kittah!) I got home about 1/2 hour ago and its 177. I'll test again preshot at 6 to see where he falls. I didn't NOT want to shoot today but I couldn't risk him having issues with me not being at home. I'll be doing post shot testing at 2 and 3 hours this evening since I"m home.

Happy Monday!
 
Since you didn't shoot this morning, IF you want to change your shot times, now's the time to do it. If 6am/6pm works the best for you, it's fine for you to keep it, but if you would want to change it, it would be safe to do it for the PM cycle

Just something to consider if you'd like to tweek your schedule
 
HI gang - I did a little experiment Friday at shot time and all day yesterday. He was low Friday at shot time starting at 88 - 97 - 100 - 100 (each one hour apart) so I decided to skip the PM dose. Saturday morning got up really late at tested him 132 - no shot - wasn't home all day. Yesterday at pm shot time 114, two hours later 111. This morning he was 132 so I shot 1/4 of a unit.

I know I"m supposed to be consistent with Lantus. But look at those numbers. This is good right??
 
Sort of good, but you're still getting some high blues. Tigger IS looking much better though

I suggest you drop your dose back to .5 twice a day and see how he does. IF he stays in between 50-130 for 14 cycles (OR you get a test under 50) you'd "earn" the reduction back to .25 twice/day...then IF he stayed in those "normal" numbers for another 7 days, you'd drop back to .1

We want Tigger to have a STRONG remission...trying to go too fast just increases the chance that although he might be in fairly good numbers right now, in a few months, he'll be high again and getting a cat into a 2nd remission is VERY difficult, if it's possible at all.

When you get a number you're not comfortable shooting, we suggest you Stall, don't feed, and retest in 30 minutes. You can use that time to ask for help, or follow the recommendations in the Sticky Shooting and handling low numbers

Hopefully some others will chime in to offer some more words of wisdom
 
I'll do that at the PM dose (.5 unit). Thinking back when I first started treating Tigger and the vet says she wanted him between 150-220 , now I'm thinking 150-220 is still too high!!! What's considering normal for a non-diabetic cat?
 
We want our kitties between 50-130...that's why I said he was still going a little higher than we'd want and I thought you should try the .5 if you're not comfortable with the 1 unit

Without knowing more of those mid-cycle numbers, it's hard to say for sure, but as long as you're getting pre-shot numbers over 130 (or close) so often, his pancreas needs more support

That's why we say they "earn" their reductions, either by going below 50 or by staying in those "normal" numbers for 14 cycles. We don't just reduce for no reason..we want them to really earn them
 
hey there

These numbers are pretty good but I do think he still needs some insulin to help his pancreas ease into remission. Try 0.25 for now. And read the link on shooting low that Chris gave you.

I think your current no shot number is 100 right? You might want to start getting a test an hour before the shot - as well as the pre shot test. That way (because you don't feed for 2 hours prior to the shot), you know if the number is rising naturally or not when its test time (need a 20% difference). If its rising then you are good to shoot.. But try and get a +2 or +3 as well.

Wendy
 
He was 120 this morning, and I gave him .5 unit. I'm home today so I'll do a mid-cycle test and see where he's at. Its kinda nice to have him in the 100s!!

Liz
 
Don't forget to update your spreadsheet...last entry is yesterday's AMPS

Isn't it wonderful to see those pretty blues? Next stop, the green lagoon!! (We hope!)

If you can (and it's not too late) try to get a +2 and later a +5 through +7. It'll help to see where he is mid-cycle
 
I'll update my ss - i haven't turned on my computer (home computer) yet today... I got a +5 was he was 118 (today). I'm loving the blues!
 
Yeah for Tigger!! :RAHCAT

You might want to edit your signature when you have a chance. Just say that you're using Lantus since you're not giving 2 units BID anymore (and you don't want to have to change it every time you change doses) . No hurry though

Looking good Tigger! Work that joose!
 
Hows things going? We are on day 11 right? he is a little higher than we like . Ideally you want 50-130.

If he keeps over 130 most of the time you might want to put him back on a small dose like 0.1 for a while. We don't normally go cold turkey from 0.25 to 0. Usually we do a week or two of 0.1 first to try and ensure a strong remission....

Wendy
 
I believe we are day 11. I'm going on the advice of my vet and Young Again owner - he says that his numbers are right on target for a cat that eats dry only food. He called and spoke with me about 2 weeks ago and wanted to know how Tigg was doing. I will spot-check him every other day now, but officially we are OTJ.
Thanks for all the help!
Liz
 
We usually wait 14 days to call it official.. and his numbers are a little high so I would watch closely.

Tips to stay OTJ

We say a cat is in remission if the cat can maintain BG levels for 14 days between 40-120 with most of that spent under 100. However, please keep in mind that once a diabetic always a diabetic.

1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly.
4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.
6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quick!

If he does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any.

Wendy
 
With most of your test numbers being in the blue range, I would not consider Tigger to be OTJ. You want his numbers to be pretty consistently below 100, no matter what type of food he is eating, wet or dry.

The numbers should be between 50-120 on a human glucometer to be considered OTJ. We have not seen that with Tigger.

If this were my cat, I'd put him back on a low dose of insulin.

OTJ Trial instructions

Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial:
  • Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas). The morning test is now called the AMBG. The evening test is now called the PMBG.
  • If your cat is green (0-99 human meter) at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If the numbers are blue (100-199 human meter), feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. Food raises BG's. So if the number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
  • After 2 weeks, if everything is looking good, we have a party! And boy, do we party hearty. :cool:

Sometimes, the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support by starting the cat with a tiny dose of insulin again. I had to do that with Wink. We simply start the cat back on a tiny dose of insulin to support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to be safe now then sorry later that you rushed it. With just a little more time we will probably get that strong remission we are looking for.
Click to expand...

The majority of the numbers should have been <100, for this to be considered a successful OTJ trial. It's your choice, but better a little more insulin for a time, to get a strong remission.
 
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