High Numbers

[Big Eyed Lieza]

Lieza was diagnosed two weeks ago come Monday. I have been keeping her spreadsheet up to date and testing her glucose levels often but they still seem really high to me. I just tested her 4 hours after her AM shot is the levels were higher than before her shot. I have changed her diet to Friskies Classic Pate one can in the morning and afternoon before each shot, sometimes more because she lost quite a bit of weight so I feed her extra if she is begging for it. She only had one can this morning but they are still high.

I have a couple of questions. Are her numbers considered super high or normal for a diabetic cat? Are there any suggestions on diet? Could this also be because she is newly diagnosed and her body is still regulating to the medicine, if so how long does it take for her to get used to all of this?

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Hi and welcome!!

First of all congratulations on testing at home and having changed diet!!! WOW that's a great start.

How long has she been on the Friskies Classic Pate?

Regulating a cat takes time sometimes even months, so the first thing is you will need A LOT of patience, insulin is not a medicine where you establish a dose and you know exactly what would happen, insulin is a hormone and as such a lot of things influence the results you get and it will require changing doses until you get to the dose she needs and even then it may require some adjustments for example if she gets sick or something, but don't worry you'll get the hang of it with time.

Newly diagnosed cats are usually a bit high those pink numbers ( numbers around the 300's) are unfortunately common at the beginning but they will go down with time as you adjust her dose, and there's a lot of people here that can help you with that

Regarding the food uncontrolled diabetics are usually very hungry because the sugar (glucose) going around in their blood doesn't allow their body to really get all the nutrients it needs, that's mainly the reason they lose weight and are always hungry, so since it appears she's underweight I wouldn't worry much about how much she eats I would allow her to eat as much as she wants but since you are using vetsulin just make sure she gets some of the food with her insulin shot. A lot of us feed several times ( just split the amount you'll give in a day in several meals ) a day or free feed that seems to help with their food cravings and actually it helps avoid big spikes in their blood glucose because the food is given in small amounts

 

[Big Eyed Lieza]

Hi and welcome!!

First of all congratulations on testing at home and having changed diet!!! WOW that's a great start.

How long has she been on the Friskies Classic Pate?

Regulating a cat takes time sometimes even months, so the first thing is you will need A LOT of patience, insulin is not a medicine where you establish a dose and you know exactly what would happen, insulin is a hormone and as such a lot of things influence the results you get and it will require changing doses until you get to the dose she needs and even then it may require some adjustments for example if she gets sick or something, but don't worry you'll get the hang of it with time.

Newly diagnosed cats are usually a bit high those pink numbers ( numbers around the 300's) are unfortunately common at the beginning but they will go down with time as you adjust her dose, and there's a lot of people here that can help you with that

Regarding the food uncontrolled diabetics are usually very hungry because the sugar (glucose) going around in their blood doesn't allow their body to really get all the nutrients it needs, that's mainly the reason they lose weight and are always hungry, so since it appears she's underweight I wouldn't worry much about how much she eats I would allow her to eat as much as she wants but since you are using vetsulin just make sure she gets some of the food with her insulin shot. A lot of us feed several times ( just split the amount you'll give in a day in several meals ) a day or free feed that seems to help with their food cravings and actually it helps avoid big spikes in their blood glucose because the food is given in small amounts

Sadly patience is not my best virtue but I am glad to hear it is normal for her to be in those numbers at these early stages. I started her on the Friskies pates this passed weekend so her diet has not been changed for a full week yet. What is the best way to free feed a cat canned cat food? She scarfs it down and then goes and eats our others cats food. We have had to separate them so he doesn't starve (he is such a great sport though, just looks at me like "Mom, what the heck. That was mine")

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

She's been on the new food just a few days so odds are after about a week her numbers will go down a bit or a lot ( it's hard to say how much because each cat is different) so you should monitor her in the following days.

The first thing for you to just leave the food out is that all the cats are eating diabetic appropriate food, so you don't have to worry about her smuggling some "forbidden" food, and after that you could keep giving him the food separately and hope that when she realizes that she doesn't have to hurry because food won't disappear she will slow down her eating or you could use one of those chip or tag activated automatic feeders so that each one has their own and they can come and eat it whenever they want.

Once she starts seeing lower numbers she won't be so hungry

 

[Big Eyed Lieza]

I will keep a close eye on her levels as much as I can. What kind of signs should I look for? We are going to be out of town Saturday night and we have two different people giving the PM & AM shot. Only one knows how to test the sugar. It would be easier for him to just know what signs to look for whether to give the shot or not.

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Here's a link to a the sticky about HYPOS ( low blood sugar ) that I do recommend you read and also the people that are going to be taking care of him and that you have the supplies they recomed at hand just in case of emergency

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

As for the shooting with out testing, the problem I see specially with a newly diagnosed that is going through food change is that odds are you are not going to notice much at shooting time when they are usually at the highest, but the problem could come later when the insulin kicks in so I would suggest that the person that is going to give the shot should check in with you depending on the last test result you have before shooting

 

[Idjit's mom]

I am adding the link to the Hypo toolbox, to have prepared just in case:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

 

[Big Eyed Lieza]

Here's a link to a the sticky about HYPOS ( low blood sugar ) that I do recommend you read and also the people that are going to be taking care of him and that you have the supplies they recomed at hand just in case of emergency

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

As for the shooting with out testing, the problem I see specially with a newly diagnosed that is going through food change is that odds are you are not going to notice much at shooting time when they are usually at the highest, but the problem could come later when the insulin kicks in so I would suggest that the person that is going to give the shot should check in with you depending on the last test result you have before shooting

I will see if my mom will learn how to take the blood sugar. My dad is giving the shot and I don't want to ask too much. Would it be a bad idea to have him give her half a dose to be safe. She will be alone the whole night after the shot. They are just coming over to feed and give a shot then leave.

 

[Idjit's mom]

I don't know if Veronica is still available to respond. @MrWorfMen's Mom can you help please?

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

I will see if my mom will learn how to take the blood sugar. My dad is giving the shot and I don't want to ask too much. Would it be a bad idea to have him give her half a dose to be safe. She will be alone the whole night after the shot. They are just coming over to feed and give a shot then leave.

I don't have much experience with Vetsulin, you could ask this in the vetsulin forum so that the people with experience in that insulin can help you determine which would be a safe dose.

In my opinion when in doubt is always better to go with the safest option and that could be skipping the shoot but please do ask the Vetusulin users about it

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Looking for physical signs isn't a safe way to determine whether to give insulin or not. Some cats show no signs of hypoglycemia until they go into seizures. It looks likes Leiza needs more insulin so I don't think it's likely she is going to go hypo but they can surprise us occasionally so my suggestion would be to stick with the 1u dose as long as the pre-shot BG test is over 250. If BG is below 250, then tell your sitter to skip the shot. I'd skip the shot where no pre-shot testing will be done. If giving insulin, make sure the sitter knows to ensure that Leiza has eaten. Sometimes our kitties don't eat as well when we are not around although it sounds like Leiza may not have that problem right now if she is pilfering her sibling's food.

I'd also suggest you try to get some night time tests. Grabbing a test before bed every night gives you a clue as to what is happening overnight and without it, you are only seeing half the picture. I'd also suggest increasing the dose of insulin to 1.25u when you get back from your Saturday night trip.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

I just read your introduction post and notice Leiza had ketones and was hospitalized at diagnosis. I'd suggest you add the history of ketones into your signature for future reference. Instead of skipping the shot where no test can be done, given how high BG is running, I suggest giving a dose of 0.5u as long as Leiza eats a good meal prior to the shot.

Ketones can lead to DKA, a very serious complication of diabetes. Not only is it a very costly condition to treat but it can be fatal. I strongly recommend you get some ketostix and test Leiza's urine for ketones regularly. Any ketone reading over trace is cause for a vet consult.

 

[Big Eyed Lieza]

I don't have much experience with Vetsulin, you could ask this in the vetsulin forum so that the people with experience in that insulin can help you determine which would be a safe dose.

In my opinion when in doubt is always better to go with the safest option and that could be skipping the shoot but please do ask the Vetusulin users about it

I just posted in that thread thank you for the advice!

 

[Big Eyed Lieza]

Looking for physical signs isn't a safe way to determine whether to give insulin or not. Some cats show no signs of hypoglycemia until they go into seizures. It looks likes Leiza needs more insulin so I don't think it's likely she is going to go hypo but they can surprise us occasionally so my suggestion would be to stick with the 1u dose as long as the pre-shot BG test is over 250. If BG is below 250, then tell your sitter to skip the shot. I'd skip the shot where no pre-shot testing will be done. If giving insulin, make sure the sitter knows to ensure that Leiza has eaten. Sometimes our kitties don't eat as well when we are not around although it sounds like Leiza may not have that problem right now if she is pilfering her sibling's food.

I'd also suggest you try to get some night time tests. Grabbing a test before bed every night gives you a clue as to what is happening overnight and without it, you are only seeing half the picture. I'd also suggest increasing the dose of insulin to 1.25u when you get back from your Saturday night trip.

I did day a night test last night and will try to get a few more at different times. I am still overwhelmed by all the information needed in taking care of her. She definitely has no issue eating right now. She ate two cans this morning compared to her sibling only got one but she is gaining weight!

The next step on my list is to learn how to test her ketone levels. I have purchased the sticks but have not had a chance between works and meetings with caretakers to figure out how to check her ketones. I hope to be able to do this on Sunday or Monday. My vet wants to consult us about three weeks in to regulate again. She did not want me to change her diet but I felt it neccessary to do so. and they are going down, this morning was the lowest she has ever been at 296 before a shot.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Diet can have a significant effect on BG. Glad to see Leiza's BG was down this AM.

Depending on how shy/private Leiza is about her bathroom time, you can try catching a small urine sample in a plastic spoon or longer handled ladle (designated for urine of course). The other option is putting some plastic wrap crinkled up in the litter box and hope to catch some pee but with another cat, you won't necessarily know whose pee you got unless you are on site when she goes.

There are glucometers that will also test for ketones and in a multi cat household or if Leiza objects to company while urinating, that may be the easiest solution. The scale of measure on the meters is different. Any reading over 2.4 is time for a vet consult.