High numbers, 15yrs old

Mel-N-Ali

Mel-N-Ali

Member Since 2024
Hi. I have had Ali on PZI for the last year, and he started at 2 units, then the vet reduced it to 1.5. He had been doing quite well until recently. The onset is not happening somedays until about 3 hrs and then some days the insulin seems to do its job and some days not. Here are the numbers from yesterday:

630am BG 356, gave 1.5 units
925am BG 347
1259pm BG 119
623pm BG 233, gave 1.5 units
906pm BG 316
1239am BG 272

This morning his PS at 620am 329, gave 1.5 units.

On 8/16 I only did a few tests:
640am 290, gave 1.5 units
1108am 257
624pm 359, gave 1.5 units

Does this warrant an increase? He seems to maybe be stuck.. I am doing another curve today
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Hi. I have had Ali on PZI for the last year, and he started at 2 units, then the vet reduced it to 1.5. He had been doing quite well until recently. The onset is not happening somedays until about 3 hrs and then some days the insulin seems to do its job and some days not. Here are the numbers from yesterday:

630am BG 356, gave 1.5 units
925am BG 347
1259pm BG 119
623pm BG 233, gave 1.5 units
906pm BG 316
1239am BG 272

This morning his PS at 620am 329, gave 1.5 units.

On 8/16 I only did a few tests:
640am 290, gave 1.5 units
1108am 257
624pm 359, gave 1.5 units

Does this warrant an increase? He seems to maybe be stuck.. I am doing another curve today
Click to expand...
Welcome to FDMB! I’m going to move your thread to Main Health as all new members need to start there so we can help you get started with how this forum works.

This (click on blue) post will help you with that including instructions on how to do a spreadsheet and your signature block so we have important information about Ali.

But to answer your question, it’s difficult to see what he is doing with just 2 days of data. I’m assuming you’ve been tracking his data for much longer. Have you been following any kind of specific method of regulation or has the vet just been telling you when to increase and decrease?
When you say he’s been doing “quite well”, what do his nadirs (lowest BG in a cycle) look like? Often times, vets are more supportive of letting cats’ nadirs run higher than we suggest here. Understandably, they can’t be with you 24/7 and want to be sure kitty is safe but we can help with getting Ali in normal BGs longer and safely.

On this site, we have two methods of regulation which assist you in determining when to increase and reduce the dose and by how much. You don’t have to jump into that today. I’d rather see a spreadsheet with some data over a few weeks so we can see his trends and make a strong recommendation for you.

Sometimes onsets and nadirs move around and sometimes duration changes. There can be a variety of reasons for this. Also, diabetic cats can do what we call “bouncing” which means the liver responds to lower numbers or fast drops by releasing extra counterregulatory hormones which drive the BG up for a few cycles. Without seeing what his cycles and trends have looked like recently, it’s hard to say if he’s bouncing or if he needs additional insulin.

The post I linked has the instructions for creating and using the spreadsheet. If you need any help, please send me a private message by clicking on my username to the left and then “start a conversation” and I can get some basic info to help with the spreadsheet.

Again, welcome. There is a bit of a learning curve but there’s always someone around to help and usually many members who will po in to help and support you. Please let me know if you have any questions.
 
Hi. Thank you for the quick response. I have been sticking with what the vet says, although my regular vet retired earlier this year, and I cant say I have a lot of confidence in the vet who took over. A few months ago she had me send in a curve for him and she called me later that night saying he was in remission and didnt need to continue insulin, and that night I did not give a shot and his AMPS the next day was in the 400's. So we went back to 1.5 units. By doing quite well I mean his numbers were consistent and not going over 220ish and not going lower than 80. He was regulated in my eyes. Then last month I noticed the insulin not working as well, but it was also almost time for a refill and the insulin was at the end of its expiration date, so once the new insulin arrived I did another curve and it seemed to be working again. Here is the curve info from the 1st shot after getting the new insulin. This was on 7/18:

640a 330
1027am 154
1221pm 71
315pm 113
630pm 249

One more curve I do have is from 8/14:

651a 231
922a 327
1201p 283
127p 328
636p 301

I will get the spreadsheet and signature done today after work. I have also been testing for Ketones and those come out normal. Such a good feeling to know this community is here to help. It becomes overwhelming at times dealing with his diabetes along with my own health issues.
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Hi. I have had Ali on PZI for the last year, and he started at 2 units, then the vet reduced it to 1.5. He had been doing quite well until recently. The onset is not happening somedays until about 3 hrs and then some days the insulin seems to do its job and some days not. Here are the numbers from yesterday:

630am BG 356, gave 1.5 units
925am BG 347
1259pm BG 119
623pm BG 233, gave 1.5 units
906pm BG 316
1239am BG 272

This morning his PS at 620am 329, gave 1.5 units.

On 8/16 I only did a few tests:
640am 290, gave 1.5 units
1108am 257
624pm 359, gave 1.5 units

Does this warrant an increase? He seems to maybe be stuck.. I am doing another curve today
Click to expand...
Could your PZ be old by any chance? If you get a spreadsheet set up, I will be able to help you. We need more than just one day of data because we need to look at trends/patterns overall (the big picture) as well as nadirs.
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Hi. I have had Ali on PZI for the last year, and he started at 2 units, then the vet reduced it to 1.5. He had been doing quite well until recently. The onset is not happening somedays until about 3 hrs and then some days the insulin seems to do its job and some days not. Here are the numbers from yesterday:

630am BG 356, gave 1.5 units
925am BG 347
1259pm BG 119
623pm BG 233, gave 1.5 units
906pm BG 316
1239am BG 272

This morning his PS at 620am 329, gave 1.5 units.

On 8/16 I only did a few tests:
640am 290, gave 1.5 units
1108am 257
624pm 359, gave 1.5 units

Does this warrant an increase? He seems to maybe be stuck.. I am doing another curve today
Click to expand...
Also, would you please set up your signature?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Could your PZ be old by any chance? If you get a spreadsheet set up, I will be able to help you. We need more than just one day of data because we need to look at trends/patterns overall (the big picture) as well as nadirs.
Click to expand...
Hi. No. The Pzi is a brand new prescription as of middle of last month. He had a better day today. Amps @619am 329, 296@829am, 138@1136, 127@315p, PMPS@622p 136.

Would i still give 1.5 for tonight since he is at 136?

Working on the spreadsheet and signature now.
 
To set spreadsheet sharing permission:
* At the top right of the spreadsheet screen click on Share.

* In the pop-up dialog box click on the Get Link section.

* Change link access from 'Restricted' to 'Anyone with the link' and make sure that the permission on the right hand side is set to 'Viewer'.

* Click Done to save the changes.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
To set spreadsheet sharing permission:
* At the top right of the spreadsheet screen click on Share.

* In the pop-up dialog box click on the Get Link section.

* Change link access from 'Restricted' to 'Anyone with the link' and make sure that the permission on the right hand side is set to 'Viewer'.

* Click Done to save the changes.
Click to expand...
Done :)
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
I think I did it!
Click to expand...
Just a note. I see in your signature that you are feeding dry food (the Young Again Zero Mature) so you aren’t eligible to follow the more proactive TR protocol because of the way that dry food effects BG (even the LC stuff affects the BG differently than wet food.) Many new members will begin with SLGS and then transition their cat to a wet food diet and then move to TR.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Just a note. I see in your signature that you are feeding dry food (the Young Again Zero Mature) so you aren’t eligible to follow the more proactive TR protocol because of the way that dry food effects BG (even the LC stuff affects the BG differently than wet food.) Many new members will begin with SLGS and then transition their cat to a wet food diet and then move to TR.
Click to expand...
I have tried to get him on wet food only for the last long while. He only gets a small amount, about 1/8th of a cup in the morning at shot time and same at evening shot time.
 
Excellent, I can see it. You have a great body of data there. You are getting some decent numbers in blue. It looks like you can move to 1.75 units as soon as you wish to. We haven’t talked feeding schedules yet, but it’s important to give small amounts (a tablespoon) of food at +2 and +4. More on that later. I’ve got to drive now so not typing 🙂
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Excellent, I can see it. You have a great body of data there. You are getting some decent numbers in blue. It looks like you can move to 1.75 units as soon as you wish to. We haven’t talked feeding schedules yet, but it’s important to give small amounts (a tablespoon) of food at +2 and +4. More on that later. I’ve got to drive now so not typing 🙂
Click to expand...
Yep, he gets wet food at every 2 hr interval until bedtime. I will increase to 1.75 for tonight. Would I do the 1.75 even if his PS is unusually low?

Thanks so much for your help!!
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Yep, he gets wet food at every 2 hr interval until bedtime. I will increase to 1.75 for tonight. Would I do the 1.75 even if his PS is unusually low?

Thanks so much for your help!!
Click to expand...
I do not recommend feeding much of anything after nadir (so around +6) because it can shorten the duration of the insulin and cause the numbers to rise prematurely. That doesn’t include the low carb treats that are given with the BG tests. Those should ALWAYS be given.

Also, no food should be given for two hours before the AMPS and PMPS tests to make sure the test is not influenced by food/carbs.
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Would I do the 1.75 even if his PS is unusually low?
Click to expand...
You shot a 136 last night with 1.5 units and he was okay so you should be able to shoot that again as long as you can get a few tests like you did last night. Well done on that, by the way. I am not sure I would want you to shoot 1.75 with a similar preshot just yet (although the goal is to be able to gradually reduce the preshot numbers you can shoot.)
 
Yeah shooting that last night was stressful, but I stayed up until I made sure he was okay. I did the 1.75 tonight. I hope I measured properly, I have u40 1/2cc syringes.
 
Instead of dry food, maybe consider air dried or freeze dried raw? Air dried raw is crunchy just like dry food. Freeze dried raw is softer and some brands are kibble-shaped. Ideally freeze dried raw is rehydrated before feeding but it can be fed dry. A downside is that both types typically come in a small bag (12 oz or so) and costs more than dry food.

Or maybe instead of dry food, offer some freeze dried treats for the crunch.

Have you tried the food transition tips? Transitioning your cat from dry to wet food
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Yeah shooting that last night was stressful, but I stayed up until I made sure he was okay. I did the 1.75 tonight. I hope I measured properly, I have u40 1/2cc syringes.
Click to expand...
Did you measure “eyeball” halfway between the 1.5 mark and the 2 mark? If so, that’s the way to do it.
 
squeem3 said:
Instead of dry food, maybe consider air dried or freeze dried raw? Air dried raw is crunchy just like dry food. Freeze dried raw is softer and some brands are kibble-shaped. Ideally freeze dried raw is rehydrated before feeding but it can be fed dry. A downside is that both types typically come in a small bag (12 oz or so) and costs more than dry food.

Or maybe instead of dry food, offer some freeze dried treats for the crunch.

Have you tried the food transition tips? Transitioning your cat from dry to wet food
Click to expand...
I have tried freeze dried food and treats, neither cat will eat it. Is there a brand you like? Its tough having 2 cats and trying to feed them differently. Ali will refuse wet food until he gets a little dry food, and my other cat isn't particularly fond of wet food.
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
I have tried freeze dried food and treats, neither cat will eat it. Is there a brand you like? Its tough having 2 cats and trying to feed them differently. Ali will refuse wet food until he gets a little dry food, and my other cat isn't particularly fond of wet food.
Click to expand...

I hear you. Civvie eats Nature's Variety frozen raw while Leroy eats Vital Essentials freeze dried (long story). At least both eat rabbit.

Civvie doesn't eat treats but Leroy does. I use the Northwest Natural brand becayse of the novel proteins. Pure Bites is a popular brand. The chicken treats can be rehydrated in water until it looks more like freshly cooked chicken. That might be appealing to your cats.

Ziwi Peak is one brand of crunchy air dried raw.
 
squeem3 said:
I hear you. Civvie eats Nature's Variety frozen raw while Leroy eats Vital Essentials freeze dried (long story). At least both eat rabbit.

Civvie doesn't eat treats but Leroy does. I use the Northwest Natural brand becayse of the novel proteins. Pure Bites is a popular brand. The chicken treats can be rehydrated in water until it looks more like freshly cooked chicken. That might be appealing to your cats.

Ziwi Peak is one brand of crunchy air dried raw.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the recommendations!
 
I'd add to SqueeM3's suggestions. Stella & Chewy's has a freeze dried line of raw dinner morsels. They are more of a softer than crunchy style. ZiwiPeak had an air dried line of raw foods.
 
@Mel-N-Ali
Hi you need to change your signature to SLGS and get rid of the TR since Ali is eating some dry food. Please add the date Ali was diagnosed on your signature also. And please change thecTR to SLGS on the top of your spreadsheet
 
Mel-N-Ali said:
Hi there! I already have his diagnosis date on the spreadsheet, 7/2024, but I will update SLGS now. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Thank you , we also like to see it on your signature too 😊

Here is some more information on freeze dried treats

Click on this link and look at post #6. Numbers are to the right
You can get any freeze dried treats ,information is there
? - Brand New, Many Questions :3

Freeze dried treats that only contain one ingredient (the meat or fish) is zero carb and fine to feed to a diabetes
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
Thank you , we also like to see it on your signature too 😊

Here is some more information on freeze dried treats

Click on this link and look at post #6. Numbers are to the right
You can get any freeze dried treats ,information is there
? - Brand New, Many Questions :3

Freeze dried treats that only contain one ingredient (the meat or fish) is zero carb and fine to feed to a diabetes
Click to expand...
Updated! I will update his SS first thing in the morning
 
Good afternoon! I was hoping someone could take a look at his spreadsheet, just updated it. For the last week his PS numbers have been pretty ok, but not much of a drop during the cycle during the day. I work from home so I am able to monitor how much he e eats, and am pretty consistent with it. I did have my 1st fur shot yesterday:(
 
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