High glucose/not eating

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OK,Thanks.

It's almost 11:30 Ravan is asking for food ( his glucose must be dropping) He ate a few licks of canned food & 4 tiny pieces of raw liver. He also wanted to go outside.It's only 34 degrees today & windy. Normally I wouldn't let him out on a cold day but i thought it might perk him up.He lasted about 3 mins & came back in. He's back sleeping.I'll check his glucose at 3pm.
 
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Finally finished the spreadsheet. In the beginning I only tested 2 X a day before a shot. I'm going to take a break When I get back I'll try to add it to my signature.
 
what is his appetite like normally? Are you sure there’s no infection anywhere? Has he been checked for pancreatitis? I’ll tag @Marje and Gracie to give you Slippery Elm dosing info.
 
If this were my kitty, I’d get him to the vet. A cat that is not eating and has unregulated diabetes can be at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis. Are you checking his urine ketones?

As much as you might distrust vets, I would not risk this as DKA can be deadly and it can happen fast. If you test his ketones and they are negative, then it’s likely something else...perhaps pancreatitis. But if you aren’t testing ketones, they need to be checked. If you can’t get a urine sample to stick the urine ketone strip into, then he needs to go to the vet. DKA causes electrolyte imbalances and is caused by (1) not enough insulin (2) not enough food/water (3) infection.
 
My regular vet is great. Problem is he recently got a new guy who's supposed to be an "expert" on diabetes.(Has all these letters after his name.) The man may be educated but he's probably over 80 yrs old & I do not agree with a lot of his advice. He told me I HAD to get a animal Meter & insulin for cats. He wanted to draw urine from Ravan with a needle to check for ketones,I had read about this & told him No. After I brought Ravan home he looked very sick. He gets extremely stressed in the car & at the vets. I called the clinic & my Vet was there. He said to bring Ravan in
When I got there my Vet felt Ravans belly & said ,there's his bladder, the other vet said," I couldn't find it! "He brought an ultrasound machine in, put Ravan flat on his back( Very stressful position for an animal & unnecessary for this test) Ravan was crying out & struggling. I stepped forward & asked them to please lay him on his side. My Vet,( that I've always got along with, raised his voice & told me," Stand over there & let us do our job" He also said ," stop going on the internet ,reading all that garbage!" I'm 71 yrs old & felt humiliated, he did not need to talk to me like that. I started crying,(very stressed out!) The "Expert" poked a needle into Ravan's belly 3 times before he found His bladder! The entire time Ravan was struggling & crying. I'm supposed to be there to protect him, to provide comfort. That is not what happened. After all this unnecessary bullshit his ketones were negative.
When I got home Ravan could not walk. He was in pain. He lay with his belly flat on the cement basement floor. For 5 days he had pain urinating. & laid on the flood for 15 mins . each time. When i called the vet & told him he said,that has nothing to do with my test. Bullshit!
Do you understand why I do not want to take him to ANY vet. This is not the first time I've had a terrible experience. I've been to 6 or 7 different Vets over the 45 yrs I've lived here. Sorry to make this so long. I've been checking Ravan's ketones every day ,negative.He probably does have Pancreatitis , his sister had high liver enzymes. They are nearly 16 yrs old, I do not want to put them through any more pain or stress. But I will try anything I can to help them.Does that make sense?
 
Sharon. Ravan usually eats good. He's a big cat, usually weighs 0ver 14 lbs. He not fat, just tall. I was told he might be part maine coon. Every time I give his insulin he appears nauseous. His Ketones are negative. I'm new to this web site but NOT new to taking care of animals.For over 51 years now I've had cats,dogs, birds a rabbit. I truly Love animals. When I say that, I really mean it. They are like my children. When I hear people say they,"put their cat or dog down" I don't understand. If that was a child that was very ill would you," put your child down?" Over 15 yrs ago I became Vegetarian so I could afford to feed my cats raw meat. I've been on disability for 18 years. So when i hear people say I can't afford to feed my animals that expensive food I think ," just how much are you willing to give up to really take care of you animal companion?" I guess I have very different ideas about what it means to "Love" an animal.
 
Joy I can tell you love Ravan and Peggy Sue, and I’m sorry you went through that with your vet. How long ago was that? I’m an animal lover too. I’ve also had dogs and birds, rabbits and now have chickens and horses in addition to my 12 cats. They absolutely eat better than I do, so I know where you’re coming from!
It’s good that Ravans ketones are still negative, keep testing for that. I don’t know much about hepatic lipidosis, but if he doesn’t start eating soon, you may need to watch for that too. You say when you give insulin, he seems nauseous, is he eating before the shot?

ETA, Yes a pic of Ravan and Peggy Sue would be great!
 
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Today is better,so far. Ravan keeps going to his dish nibbling at what I put down. He's definitely doing better today. Yes, he eats before his insulin. ( if he doesn't I put baby food in a syringe & feed him before I give him Lantus).Within a few mins after his shot he starts looking nauseous. Making little smacking movements with his mouth,like he has a bad taste.Then he usually sleeps. I'm very attentive & connected with my animals. I think I notice things that other people are too busy with their lives to notice. I'm home a lot with them.
I recently bought Ketone strips & check his urine every day now. So far it's been negative for ketones.
The incident with the Vet was at the end of January when he was 1st diagnosed with diabetes. I brought him & Peggy Sue in in January to have blood work. They were both not eating as usual . Three of their siblings had died in less than 2 years so I was concerned. When the vet took blood for the test he shaved their neck & took it from the Jugular vein in their neck. Ravan was very stressed out, he hates it in the car & at the Vet. My regular Vet is very good at drawing blood. No Problem. We had discussed what might be wrong & we both thought it might be their kidneys.The next day I was shocked to hear his glucose was 500 & he has Diabetes. ( I didn't know at that time that stress can raise their glucose way up).Peggy Sue had high liver enzymes. Vet said it could be Pancreatitis or her Liver. He said a liver biopsy would possibly tell. I declined a biopsy. I gave her milk thistle every day for a month. Had blood work again & her liver enzymes came way down. Looking at the spreadsheet I still wonder if he really does have diabetes. I was giving him 0. 5 & .25 units of insulin for a while & start thinking maybe the insulin is causing the problem? Maybe it's just my wishful thinking? So, how would I know for sure he has diabetes & didn't get a high reading due to extreme stress? He definitely appears a lot sicker now,on insulin , than when I 1st brought him in . This is my 1st experience with Diabetes. It's very frightening & confusing! I'll try to post a photo of my kitties tomorrow. Ravan needs his shot in a little while. Has anyone looked at his spreadsheet yet? I just copied it into my signature.
Thank you all for your help. Night for now.
 
One thing you can try is urine test strips that show ketones AND glucose. If they test positive for glucose spilling into urine your kitty is definitely diabetic. You BG test numbers show you he is. The urine test would just add more weight.
 
Glad you got the SS set up and posted. A cat can get a higher reading from stress, (as well as from pain or inflammation) but once the stress is gone the numbers should come down to normal ranges which on a human meter is 50-120. The fact that Ravans numbers are not staying in the normal range points, unfortunately, to diabetes. I have a cat that I had to take to the emergency clinic. While there his glucose was 279, but after we were home and he was feeling better the number dropped to 65 and has stayed in that range since.
 
how is raven doing? i am hoping he has tested negative for pancreatitis. ..make sure it is the right test...there are two...one is more reliable than the other...know this from experience ...pancreatitis can cause alot of ravens symptoms...low appetite ...nausea...vomiting...and very much pain (i know i have had it myself)....has he been tested for
any heart conditions?...these can cause nausea...also do consider his diabetes may be secondary to another underlying cause...cancer...sry to alarm you...
 
Ravan seems a bit better today. He woke me asking for food. Now the problem is all he'll eat is fish or liver. Before he got sick I rarely ever gave him fish or liver. I also gave him some chicken baby food in a syringe with Slippery elm for the nausea, before the insulin.
Hi Allison, you mentioned 2 tests for pancreatitis. Which one is the more reliable one? After the problems at the Vets, I don't want to put Ravan thru all the stress again but I'll see how things go. What is the treatment for pancreatitis?
How do I post a photo of my kitties? ( I'm not so good with the computer.This has all been a learning experience)
 
Glad he’s eating better! If he wants fish and liver, that’s ok for now. When he gets better you can switch him back to his usual food. To add a pic, click on your name at the top right of the page. Then on avatar.
I don’t know what the tests are, but I’ll look them up and get back to you

ETA The two tests are the SNAP which is usually run in the vets office. It will tell you yes or no
And the other test is the SPECfPL which is sent off and is the better test. Here’s some more info on pancreatitis
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/
 
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Hi Sharon,I tried several pics but each one it said," this file is too large? "There just regular photos. I don't know what else to do?

Ravan is again refusing to eat. He barely licks at a tiny bit. This afternoon he ate about a teaspoon of liver It's 8 pm & I offered him several kinds of food & he won't eat. This is scaring me again.He looks like he's losing muscle ,walking slow & a tiny bit wobbly. Sides look much thinner. I watched a video about syringe feeding & the woman gives her cat 4 large syringes of pureed food 2X a day! I think Ravan would vomit if I gave him that much. Have any of you syringe fed your cat. How much did you feed?

Gee, where is everybody? I tried to start a conversation with Allison but she did not respond.
 
I can’t help with the photo thing, I’m pretty computer illiterate too! I just used photos I took with my phone or iPad.

I’ve syringe fed a few times, and I just give as much as they will tolerate (use your judgement, you know Ravan) and I did it multiple times a day rather than just twice. You really should consider the pancreatitis test. Also, maybe try some Hills A/D food. It’s not too bad carb wise and it’s supposed to be a high calorie recovery food and easy to syringe. You have to get it from a vet though.
 
JoyBee said:
Hi Sharon,I tried several pics but each one it said," this file is too large? "There just regular photos. I don't know what else to do?

Ravan is again refusing to eat. He barely licks at a tiny bit. This afternoon he ate about a teaspoon of liver It's 8 pm & I offered him several kinds of food & he won't eat. This is scaring me again.He looks like he's losing muscle ,walking slow & a tiny bit wobbly. Sides look much thinner. I watched a video about syringe feeding & the woman gives her cat 4 large syringes of pureed food 2X a day! I think Ravan would vomit if I gave him that much. Have any of you syringe fed your cat. How much did you feed?

Gee, where is everybody? I tried to start a conversation with Allison but she did not respond.
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I have had to syringe feed sick cats in the past but I don't recall the amount. It was frequent and it was messy. In the worst case the kitty ended up with a surgically installed feeding tube for three weeks and I syringed pureed food through that until she started eating normally on her own again.
 
no magic pill for pancreatitis (i had it and it hurts)...for humans or cats...
JoyBee said:
Hi Sharon,I tried several pics but each one it said," this file is too large? "There just regular photos. I don't know what else to do?

Ravan is again refusing to eat. He barely licks at a tiny bit. This afternoon he ate about a teaspoon of liver It's 8 pm & I offered him several kinds of food & he won't eat. This is scaring me again.He looks like he's losing muscle ,walking slow & a tiny bit wobbly. Sides look much thinner. I watched a video about syringe feeding & the woman gives her cat 4 large syringes of pureed food 2X a day! I think Ravan would vomit if I gave him that much. Have any of you syringe fed your cat. How much did you feed?

Gee, where is everybody? I tried to start a conversation with Allison but she did not respond.
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sorry Ravens mom...I am just not able to navigate this website too well...I was very busy today but DID get your message and definitely want to talk to you more as we do have sooo much in common wow...losing three cats in such a short period of time would have me wondering how much more i could handle ...and now you are facing two other sick kitties...i am always going to be here if you need/want to chat...I hope reaches you immediately but i am not sure how this works...let me know how soon you get this...sending hugs to you and your kitties....Allison
 
btw...i too have tried to keep conversations going and I think ppl are just not getting my messages as maybe there is not much communication between the different forums?...
 
Hi Allison, I'm on the computer so i just got your message. Thank you for the reply. I need to get Ravan's glucose reading now but I check back in a little while.
 
ravens mom...I can give you the details about Bubbled my beloved little angel....it might be helpful ....my other kittty Mor Mor is not well either as I have talked about aswell ...so wasnt sure which mitty you meant...
 
Allison I think the question about the sick cat was for Kris & Teasel.

I just checked Ravan's glucose & it's back up 437. I'm confused. If I give him a tiny bit more Lantus his glucose might drop very low. It did before to 68. I don't know what to do?

Allison, Any information would be appreciated. I'm wondering if I should start syringe feeding Ravan & Peggy Sue. Neither one wants to eat since this morning.
 
Does anyone know if krill Oil is OK to give the cats every day? I read one article that fish & Krill oil can aggravate Pancreatitis? It's possible that both Ravan & Peggy Sue do Have Pancreatitis. They sure have all the symptoms.
 
JoyBee said:
Kris & Teasel,What was wrong with your cat, that you had to force feed. & how did it all turn out?
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She stopped eating for reasons that were never clear. Hepatic lipidosis is a danger under those conditions so the vet recommended a feeding tube. I agreed and after three weeks of tube feeding she was eating well on her own. The tube was simply pulled out and the cat had many healthy years after that.
 
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hi its Allison..we are somehow missing each other at a very important time for your cats...if you suspect either cat has pancreatitis they need to get to a vet STAT...now...it is very painful and can be life threatening according to what my vet has said...can u call a vet and ask advice? I am not qualified to advise you on this....are they very lethargic ...vomiting...appearing in any way to be in distress??
 
allison goodall said:
hi its Allison..we are somehow missing each other at a very important time for your cats...if you suspect either cat has pancreatitis they need to get to a vet STAT...now...it is very painful and can be life threatening according to what my vet has said...can u call a vet and ask advice? I am not qualified to advise you on this....are they very lethargic ...vomiting...appearing in any way to be in distress??
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It would really surprise me if both cats had pancreatitis at same time...its not contagious...
 
Hi Allison, Ravan was diagnosed with Diabetes but at that time the vet said something could be going on with his Pancreas or Liver also.Peggy Sue also had high liver enzymes. Last week I cooked some Salmon in butter for them & they gobbled it up . But an hour later they both vomited it all up. I read later that cats with Pancreas problems cannot have fat It must have been the butter that made them vomit. I ate some of the Salmon & I was OK so nothing was wrong with the fish. Peggy Sue & Ravan are from the same litter so maybe they just inherited the same problems?

talk more tomorrow. i haven't been getting much sleep lately. i'm off to bed.
 
i am not a vet....I want your cats to survive whatever they are going thru...i so want to help you...at some point you also need to help yourself...but if your cats are vomiting or otherwise in distress...I personally wouldnt wait....I am so sry I wish i had more answers ....dont wait...u might be very sry u did....just my thoughts....
 
Good morning Joy, how is Ravan doing, is he eating better? I don’t know about the krill oil and pancreatitis so hopefully someone else can answer that. I think the reason his numbers are up is because he is not feeling well. We don’t know if it’s pancreatitis or something else, but pain, inflammation and the stress of not feeling good will make the glucose numbers higher. You joined us on Sunday and he wasn’t eating well then, the weekend is coming up, so you may want to consider a vet visit now.
 
Hi Sharon, Ravan ate a half can of food at 3am, 7am a few pieces of liver,10am a large shrimp. I just checked his Glucose & it's 488. Right now he's eating again ,the other half of the can of food. I've been giving him a syringe of baby food with slippery elm 2-3 times a day & it's definitely helping with the nausea. I really don't want to bring him to the vet Some cats seem to deal fine with going in the car & to the vet. Ravan gets so stressed out it takes a week till he calms down. (Maybe he takes after me? ) In 15 years these last visits are the only time Ravan has been in my car or to a Vet, It really freaked him out.Not only that I need to make an appt. at least a week ahead of time. I get along with this Vet just fine It's his staff that gives me problems. I mentioned it to the Vet & he said Oh they're just trying to protect me,they feel i'm too generous. He gives me a break on the bill & his"girls" don't like that!

Do you have any idea why his glucose is jumping around? Today from 285 at 3am to 488 at 9am? yesterday it was 267 in the morning & went to 437 in the evening. Did you or anyone else look at his spreadsheet? His readings seem to be all over the place. What causes that? Do I need to increase / decrease his Lantus? When I look at the spreadsheet it seems he was doing better on 0.5 units of insulin? Does anyone has some advice/suggestions for me?
 
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Hi Allison, I do appreciate your advice. Ravan & Peggy Sue are not vomiting. Since I started giving them slippery elm they are both eating better. It sounds like you have a lot of faith in your Vet. saving your babies? I've not had great experiences with "ANY" Vet I've ever gone to. Maybe it's just me.I have trust issues with doctors in general. A lot of people just do what their doctor/ Vet tells. They think "doctor" is infallible. I'm not one of those people. I question everything.And read everything I can find on the subject. That's why I'm here on this Forum. I have faith that the people that have gone through the same problem my cats are having can give me some good advice. Less than a year ago one of Ravan's sister stopped eating. I called my Vet & he wasn't in. A woman associate of his said to bring her in. She thoroughly examined Clarise, even took urine from her bladder with a needle. She could find nothing wrong. She advised me to take her home & if she wasn't feeling better to come back on Monday ( it was Saturday afternoon)
Clarise lay down on the couch & fell asleep. I went to the store, less than an hour later I came home & she was dead! I'll never know what she died from. I'm still grieving over her death. This is only one many such things that have happened when I trusted the "doctor" would know what to do.

Have you had great outcomes with your Vet? Has he saved any of them?Maybe I just haven't found the right one?
 
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hi Joy...sry you are going through this with Raven...I went through the same issue...Bubbles wasnt eating...
I have had both good and very bad experiences with vets and I too do not trust everything tbey say...I read everything i can like you do and it has really helped me when nonvets were around...it sounds like you are barely even sleeping...having to feed Raven at 2 am...take care of yourself too...you need to sleep too!..I am the wrong one to ask about high and low numbers...many msny ppl on here know about this so plse i hope you post this in main forum asap...sooo sry about your other kitty passing away like that....I can see why you do not trust vets...I have had some bad advice from vets too...keep us posted please...not sure if you can get your kitty to vet for this but it might really help...has anyone mentioned appetite stimulants or anti nausea meds? they really help some cats....
 
allison goodall said:
hi Joy...sry you are going through this with Raven...I went through the same issue...Bubbles wasnt eating...
I have had both good and very bad experiences with vets and I too do not trust everything tbey say...I read everything i can like you do and it has really helped me when nonvets were around...it sounds like you are barely even sleeping...having to feed Raven at 2 am...take care of yourself too...you need to sleep too!..I am the wrong one to ask about high and low numbers...many msny ppl on here know about this so plse i hope you post this in main forum asap...sooo sry about your other kitty passing away like that....I can see why you do not trust vets...I have had some bad advice from vets too...keep us posted please...not sure if you can get your kitty to vet for this but it might really help...has anyone mentioned appetite stimulants or anti nausea meds? they really help some cats....
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Allison,this makes me laugh! That's exactly what I just wrote to someone else on this forum. I'm getting confused who I'm talking to. Yes, JoyBee is the name i use here. Slippery Elm seems to be working to increase kitties appetite. Ravan & Peggy Sue were eating good this morning. I hope it continues!
 
I’m so glad they are eating! I understand about not wanting to stress them with a vet trip. I’m Lucky that my vet will come to my house (extra fee of course) for my scaredy cats. I’m not a spreadsheet expert, but his not feeling well and eating right may have something to do with it. He may also need a slight increase in dose. To get better dosing advice you should post on the Lantus forum. It’s very busy there, so be patient if you don’t get an answer right away.
 
Thank you Sharon. The first few days it seemed a lot of people responded Now you & Allison seem to be the only ones trying to help. I do appreciate that! I'll get on the Lantus forum later today. Still haven't been able to get a photo of my kitties posted. Message states,Photo is too large? I don't understand that. It's the same as all my other photos. I don't have Photoshop on my computer & Paint (which can resize the photo) is frozen & doesn't respond. Every time a get an update on Win 10 something else BAD happens in this computer!
 
Sorry I can’t help with the photo thing, all I use is my iPad or iPhone. Let me know when you post on Lantus forum and if no one responds, I’ll tag a couple of people to help you.
 
Thanks Kris, I was thinking of trying that tonight. But did you look at Ravan's spreadsheet? he did seem to be doing better when he was on 0.5 Units of Lantus. When he was on the low dose he was eating OK.
 
JoyBee said:
Thanks Kris, I was thinking of trying that tonight. But did you look at Ravan's spreadsheet? he did seem to be doing better when he was on 0.5 Units of Lantus. When he was on the low dose he was eating OK.
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Yes, I did look at your SS. In FD a month ago is ancient history though, especially when other issues have cropped up more recently - poor appetite for an unknown reason or possibly pancreatitis. For whatever reason the 1 u dose isn't as effective now as 0.5 u was then. It's the nature of FD to be a dynamic thing, not a static thing. This is one of many reasons we recommend home testing and tracking data on a spreadsheet.
 
JoyBee said:
Allison,this makes me laugh! That's exactly what I just wrote to someone else on this forum. I'm getting confused who I'm talking to. Yes, JoyBee is the name i use here. Slippery Elm seems to be working to increase kitties appetite. Ravan & Peggy Sue were eating good this morning. I hope it continues!
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