Hi! Our Story + LOTS of questions! : )

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Sushi (GA 5/05-3/14)

Sushi (GA 5/05-3/14)

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Hi!
I’m brand new and have a lot of questions! (I tried searching for answers but I’m not having any luck--any tips on how to find specific information?)

My kitty Sushi was diagnosed with diabetes in January. He stopped eating and was throwing up yellow foamy stuff; I took him to the vet to find he had started going into liver failure due to diabetes!
He is 6 years old, very fluffy, and he’s a big guy weighing in around 18lbs. He's a few pounds overweight, but he's also just a BIG cat!

I haven’t been completely happy with my vet; he’s either too busy for me or not very knowledgeable. I don’t feel like he takes my concerns seriously. To make a LONG story short:
Sushi isn't regulated yet. When he was first diagnosed, I was bringing him to the vet to have his BS checked. After a few months, my vet sat me down and said that Sushi gets so anxious and mad at the vet that the BS levels are not accurate. He suggested that I begin checking his BS @ home with urine strips that he would order for me. A few weeks went by with several unsuccessful interactions in an attempt to obtain the strips. Then, I get a voicemail from the vet saying that the BS kit had come in; a kit to test his BLOOD (not urine). This was never discussed with me. The inefficiency, disorganization and oversight of the entire process made me decide to change vets. Shortly thereafter I lost my job. I’ve been hoping to move back to my hometown and pick up with my vet there who is wonderful! However, it’s taking me longer than I expected to find work and I fear I’m neglecting Sushi in the process. Here are my current concerns:
- He doesn’t groom himself. He may wash his face after eating, but that’s about it.
- He sheds a LOT. I live in South Louisiana and it’s in the dead of summer, but I feel as if he’s shedding too much.
- He started to develop minor dandruff right around the time summer started.
- Since he was diagnosed, I’ve noticed his eyes glow/reflect more. He has “laser beams coming out of his eyes” about 75% of the time when I look at him. Is this normal?
- He squeaks/whimpers when he poops.
- About half the time, he does not poop in the litter box. There doesn’t seem to be a rhyme or reason for when he does, when he doesn’t, or where he decides to go (he goes all over the house!). This is a PROBLEM!!!
- His poop SMELLS!! It’s so pungent it will burn your eyebrows off!
MY MAIN QUESTION: I USE LANTUS INSULIN AND RECENTLY STUMBLED UPON A FORUM ON THE CARTRIDGES OF LANTUS OPTICLICK PENS BEING A MORE ECONOMICAL OPTION. THESE POSTS WERE DATED FROM 08-10. I’VE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED, ON THIS FORUM AS WELL, AND IT SEEMS THAT THE OPTICLICK PENS HAVE BEEN DISCONTINUED? SO THEREFORE YOU CAN’T JUST BUY THE CARTRIDGES ANYMORE? AM I RIGHT OR WRONG? ANY INFORMATION/INSIGHT WOULD BE SUPER HELPFUL HERE!
I CURRENTLY PAY ABOUT $110 FOR A 10ML BOTTLE OF LANTUS. MY PHARMISIST QUOTED ME A PRICE OF $255 FOR A PACK OF 5 LANTUS SOLOSTAR PENS. THAT’S NOT A BETTER DEAL. AGAIN, ANY INFORMATION/INSIGHT WOULD BE SUPER HELPFUL HERE!

Thank you so much for your help and support!! I'm so glad to have found this forum!
Ashley n Sushi
 
Hi, Ashely (and Sushi)
I'm gonna link this thread with the lantus forum since your main question is lantus related. That'll get you a quicker response (I am a PZI user)
I'll post more later.
Carl in SC
 
hi there and welcome.

i'll address the lantus questions first. yes, the opticlick pens have been discontinued but the solostar pens have not so that is what most here use. we get the pens, take the cap off them, and use them just like a vial by inserting a syringe into the end of them and drawing the dose up. using the pen as it is made for humans to use is not very accurate for kitties unfortunately.

and yes, the outlay is more for the 5 pack of pens but they last longer than a vial of lantus. for instance, i started my 5 pack in february of last year i think it was and i'm on my last pen now. mind you, Mousie uses very little insulin (1/2 a unit twice a day) so while you may not get that long out of it, you'll get longer than a month or two that many get with the vials before the insulin goes bad.

some people have found that their pharmacy will sell them an individual pen though instead of a 5 pack so that would be a matter of calling around to pharmacies and asking them if they would do that.

does that make sense?

now as far as the other concerns, can you tell us some more so we can figure out where fixes might be? for instance, can you tell us what your lantus dose is?

what food you are feeding?

and do you have any of your glucose level numbers you could share? people here tend to use a spreadsheet to keep track of their numbers and perhaps you could set one of those up soon but for now, if you have any, you could post them here and we can take a look at them.
 
Hi Welcome to FDMB. that is a lot of question, and I'll try to answer a few at a time, plus ask a lot of my own.

Your vet was right that vet stress could be bouncing his numbers way high. It is much more accurate to test at home as well as way cheaper. I have no idea why the urine test strips were so hard to get, you can by them at any drugstore. But urine testing is a very general test. Blood Glucose testing is the way to go, but not with the vet meter, they are way expensive as are the strips, which you can only get at the vet. Most of us use human BG meters. The cheapest and most popular is the Relion form Walmart, I think it is about $9 and the strips are
are $5020 for a box of 50. There are other good options available online.

Cats who don't feel well will often have litter box issues. It may be due to the FD or another problem, urinary or intestinal. Have you had a urinalysis done? Preferably C&S (Culture and Sensitivity). That will indicate any urinary or bladder problems.
- He squeaks/whimpers when he poops.
Click to expand...
That sounds like he is in pain and should be checked by a vet.

Grooming and Fur; It will get better w/ regulation and most importantly w/ a proper diet! Dry food is really bad for cats, it is not natural for them. They are obligate carnivores and that means they eat meat. Most of their water intake comes from their prey and they do not naturally drink a lot of water. Thus they become dehydrated.

$255 is a little high for 5 pens, Costco is usually cheaper and you don't have to be a member to use the pharmacy. I usually pay a little under $200. Basically the cartridges and pens are the same, the cartridges went into a reusable case. It was a redundancy and the pens are simpler. Remember when you are getting the 5 pens you are getting 15ml of Lantus as opposed to 10 in the vial. Additionally, Lantus has a shelf life , mfg. recommendation is 28 days from starting the vial. Most of us use such small doses for our cats that we end up throwing a lot away. W/ the pens the countdown restarts which each pen. That said many get longer use than 28 days, but you can't count on it.

So now to my questions:
  • * What are you feeding? First things first, get him switched to a canned food diet and NOT one of the expensive prescription diets. More on this later.
    * How much Lantus is he getting?
    *Are you testing?
    *What are his numbers if you are testing?
    * is he drinking and peeing a lot?
    *Where are you located? There may be a member close by who can help you w/ testing.
    * More to follow, this is just getting started.

Now breath, there is a lot to take in and learn, but we have all been in the same boat.
 
Cindy and Ann have asked a lot of questions. Once you have a chance to respond, we can offer more guidance.

If you are going to call around for prices for the pens, remember to call hospitals that have outpatient pharmacies. Often a hospital is able to sell single pens since the boxes are broken apart for use on the inpatient floors.

There is also a great deal of information available in the starred, sticky notes on the Lantus forum. Below is an overview with links to those posts.

  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Becoming Data Ready: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation.
 
Sorry, I had to go test Tess.

Come over to the Lantus Forum there are a lot of Stickies (permanent posts) st the top of the list with tons of information. ETA: Oh I see Sienne has given you the individual links. :-D

I can't stress food enough. Dry is cheap and convenient for us, but terrible for our cats. Even the stuff the vets sell. Check out this website for a list of catfoods with the % of carbohydrates and a lot of other stuff. Janet & Binky's List Diabetic cats should eat foods with no more that 10% carbs. Lots are available, in all price ranges.
 
Hi all!!
Thanks so much for your replies. First off, I meant to say that I do not feel that Sushi is regulated yet; I made a typo in my original post. Ann & Tess (Tess is a beauty!!), let me answer your questions:
* What are you feeding? First things first, get him switched to a canned food diet and NOT one of the expensive prescription diets. More on this later.
I feed him about 1c of dry Hills m/d food a day.
* How much Lantus is he getting?
I give 2 doses of 6 units of Lantus a day. After reading the FAQ's, I realize that is probably too much. I just feel like I'm on my own here since I've had so much trouble with my vet. I've basically been using his water intake/urination as my gauge of how he's doing, and it seems to be at a normal level with 10-12 units/day. At this rate, I'm not sure it would be more cost effective to go with the SoloStar pens.
*Are you testing?
no
*What are his numbers if you are testing?
n/a
* is he drinking and peeing a lot?
His water consumption/urnation seems normal when the bottle of Lantus is "fresh," but it has increased significantly as the Lantus "poops out." I can't think of the last time Sushi didn't have grimy back feet from litter (does anyone else know what I'm talking about?).
*Where are you located? There may be a member close by who can help you w/ testing.
I'm outside of the Lafayette, LA area. Oh I would LOVE to have someone that could help me with all of this!

The cheapest and most popular is the Relion form Walmart, I think it is about $9 and the strips are
are $50 for a box of 50. There are other good options available online.
Click to expand...
Great information!!! Thank you so much. And my vet can show me how to use it?

I know that the squeaking/whimpering when he poops isn't good, but my vet didn't seem concerned (ugh, my vet's just terrible!). I was wondering if it might be a diabetes-related issue.

I thought of another observation/concern: His ears get really hot. That's how I can tell he's not doing well.
 
I wanted to fix what I am sure was just a typo.
The strips are $20 for a box of 50.

And 6 units twice a day.......... :shock:
Whew. that is A LOT!!!
You are about to get the greatest gift for your kitty. I'm talking about all the great advice form this board. Prepare for it! It may feel overwhelming. Just know it's cause we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE our sugar babies.

I'll start by saying the dry is what is keeping your kitty alive on that high a dose. Most likely, anyway. There could be other issues that would require that high a dose, but it's not common. I'm not telling you that to scare you. Just letting you know.
My Callie Mae started at 5u twice a day and was bumped up to 9 units twice a day by the time I found this board. Read all about a proper diet, reduced Callie Mae's dose to 1u, switched her to a low carb wet diet and she went completely OTJ (off the juice--no more insulin).

This may be possible for your kitty as well. We'll get you there.

Others will be along now, so I'll leave you with that.

:-D
 
Thanks so much totallybeachin!
the dry is what is keeping your kitty alive on that high a dose.
Click to expand...
Yikes! So you're saying I should drop his dose, right? But he drinks SO much and urinates SO much if I go any lower. But I certainly don't want to be harming him!
Or are you saying that the dry food is what is causing such a high dose?

Oh my...I knew my situation was a mess, but I didn't realize how BIG! :?
 
You don't want to cut back that dose without switching to a low carb canned food, and you don't want to switch to the low carb canned food without cutting back the dose. Either one can be a dangerous situation for different reasons. If you do make the switch completely to a low carb canned food, then I personally would recommend cutting the insulin back to 1u twice a day and work on getting a blood glucose reading at home.

I am so glad you guys found our forum here. You have been given great advice already, so I just want to say welcome!
 
Okay, I am a bit overwhelmed. So break it down into steps for me. What's my first step to making things better for my guy?

I also wanted to say that Sushi already feels loved by all of you. I haven't done anything different, but as strange as it sounds, he can tell he's being loved and cared for a little bit more now that you are around. Thank you!!!
 
Hi and welcome,

If this were my cat, my first step would be hometesting.

Your kitty has been on that dose for about 8 months now, correct? If that's the case I'd want to hometest and see how that dose is working.

Then I would start changing food but not until I got that Walmart meter and could see exactly how he's doing.
 
Hi, sorry to disappear last night, but Tess was keeping me dancing close attendance and i missed when you came back online. :oops: :oops: :oops: Sorry on that typo on the price of the Relion strips! I definitely need new glasses.

I know there is a ton to learn about FD, but most of it is available right here. We all make mistakes when we start and sometimes our vets are no help.

First off, you need to be testing. It is the only safe way to give insulin. No one would give insulin to a child without testing. Our cats can't tell us when they feel low and giving insulin to a cat w/ a low BG is dangerous. Hypoglycemia (Hypo; very low blood sugar) can kill a cat in a matter of hours. It is better to have high BG for a few days than to have low BG even a few minutes. We have a saying, better too high for a few days, than too low for an hour.

I'm not an expert on dosing but , boy that is an awfully high dose to be starting out on! :shock: :shock: I would reduce the amount of insulin too , at least by half if not back to 1u. when you start the transition. I hope someone w/ more dosing experience can weigh in on this.

Switching diets can be tricky, ideally we switch first and then start our cats on insulin. That usually isn't the case though. Does Sushi like canned food? That can be half the battle right there. Some cats are totally addicted to dry food, they spray a coating on it to make a totally unappealing food seem like candy to them. We call it Kitty Crack. Start by offering both foods and gradually reduce the amount of dry available. Do it at a time when you will be available to monitor his BG frequently. It may take a week or two, you want to go slow. I might start with a Medium Carb (MC) food, around 10% to prevent too sharp a drop. The carbs in dry food tend to remain in the system longer than those in wet food. HAVE A HYPO KIT READY, High Carb (HC) food, usually one w/ gravy, MC food too, some Karo syrup and plenty of strips.

Cats can also bounce into high numbers if they suddenly drop very low. The liver can produce glucagon which spikes the BG when it senses the BGs have gone too low. It can be a vicious cycle of low, high, low, high. This is why we usually start at 1u. and if the cat needs more gradually work our way up in .25u increments. Once you get Sushi transitioned over we can walk you through this step by step.

I'm sorry but I have to leave now. Please first thing get a human BG monitor. It may not be the one you want to use in the long run, but it will get you started. My main meter is the Maxima, not the fanciest, newest model around but dependable and I can get very cheap strips directly from the mfg. I think w/ the worry of expense off you mind you feel more free to test frequently. That is important. I also have a backup meter that I can get strips for locally, should I, :o :roll: horror of horrors, run out of strips for the Maxima.

Please do whatever reading you can get in from the links Sienne and I have posted and watch the uTube video on testing. It isn't as hard as it seems at first. BBL
 
Sushi's Mom,

As other have said, starting home testing should be your #1 for right now. Get you hands on whatever meter you can comfortably afford. I have had no issues with my ReliOn Confirm from Walmart. In fact, I wish I would have known about it earlier. I started out with a TrueTrack from CVS. It required such a huge drop of blood I wanted to cry when it was time to test Callie Mae. I couldn't get the poking right and I had to prick her ear sometimes 6 times to get a drop big enough. I thought for sure she was going to hate me. I learned how to test with that, and got comfortable doing so, but when I read about the ReliOn meters from Walmart and the cost of the strips, I made a switch. And I am so happy I did. With the truetrack meter, I had the lancing device all the way to 5 (the deepest setting) in order to get the big drop of blood I needed. With the ReliOn, I can set it to 3, sometimes 2 and get the tiny amount that is needed. I feel better and I'm sure Callie Mae does to. She noticed the difference. I can tell. Plus the cost if the strips were so much cheaper than the CVS one. And in the beginning, that's a huge difference. You will tend to use more strips until you can get some kind of data collected and some regulation going. But that takes a little while. The cheap strips help on that end.

Once you can start testing her, then you should get her transitioned to an all wet diet.
Here is a link on feline nutrition and Janet & Binky's famous food lists. There are 2, old and new. The longer list is the old one. It has most of the values for the Fancy Feast. The new one has the Friskie's. That's what most of us use. We look for food that is lower than 10%. Personally, I use 7-10% as a med. carb. and I stick with ones 4% or less for everyday meals.

http://catinfo.org/
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

PLEASE, don't take away the dry and start Sushi on all wet while giving that high of a dose.
I'm sure others will come in and weigh in on this, but this is Callie Mae's story.
Her vet had just advised me on 5/6 that starting with her pm dose, I need to increase to 9 units. She had started on 5 BID. I had just found the board a few days prior and had done some reading and just felt in my gut that was not right. I had gone out that afternoon and purchased what I thought were good wet choices (they weren't!!), but at pm dose time, I went ahead and gave the nine units as well as put some wet out with her regular dry kibble. That was the scariest night of my life. It was the folks here that stayed with me until the scary stuff was over. I knew RIGHT THEN, I was NEVER going to give my baby that much insulin ever again. The very next day, I dropped her to 1 unit and started the transition to all wet. She didn't want it all to much in the beginning. I had to mix it a little with her dry, stuff like that, but I was determined. After a few days, she realized she liked it. Now she can't get enough of it!!
Needless to say, after switching her dose and her diet, little by little her pancreas started doing it's job. By giving her proper doses, I was giving her pancreas a much needed rest and it began to heal itself. When that started happening, with the advice and suggestions of the people on the board, I started just giving little "token" doses of insulin. A little tweeking here and there to find the right micro-dose and within a few weeks of that----OTJ!!!

I have seen it happen to a few cats whose bean (as in human being!) joined after I did, and they have success stories similar to mine. 2 that come to mind right of the bat are users ohbell and carlinsc. They were both newbies not to long ago, and both their babies are now in remission.
I think there is a good chance you could see it too.
Not EVERY cat will go into remission, but it IS possible. Just want you yo know that. And even if Sushi doesn't go completely OTJ, you will still know you are doing the absolute best for her by having the power and knowledge.

Now, go get that meter and get a spreadsheet going!! :lol: :lol:
We're all dying to know what kind of numbers Sushi is throwing out.

Oh-and 1 more thing. With that high of a dose, you could very well just be on a perpetual up-down-up-down cycle. That would cause all the peeing and such. Once we can have a look at her numbers, get her on a proper diet and dose, you will see that change. (Hopefully, if there is not something else going on too.)
And that reminds me of one more thing to put on your shopping list.
Ketodiastix. They are with the diabetic supplies. You want to have them to check for ketones. Ketones can cause DKA, and you DO NOT want to have to battle that. More on that later. Just focus on the little things right now. I don't want to worry you. Just make sure to get some so we can keep that little monster in check.

Keep us updated, and ask all the questions you want.
We are here to help you in any way we can. That's all we can do is pay it forwatd.
One day, you will be tapping the keyboard helping another newbie who will be a scared as you were. You'll see. We'll get you there!!! :-D
 
totallybeachin said:
I have seen it happen to a few cats whose bean (as in human being!) joined after I did, and they have success stories similar to mine. 2 that come to mind right of the bat are users ohbell and carlinsc. They were both newbies not to long ago, and both their babies are now in remission.
I think there is a good chance you could see it too.
Not EVERY cat will go into remission, but it IS possible. Just want you yo know that. And even if Sushi doesn't go completely OTJ, you will still know you are doing the absolute best for her by having the power and knowledge.
Click to expand...


Sushi's Mom,
Remission is of course, everyone's goal. Nobody wants their precious kitties to be sick. I was devastated when Bob was diagnosed. I blamed myself. (I've since gotten over that feeling). I am so thrilled to be able to post about Bob's OTJ today. But here's what is really important to me - even if Bob regresses, and has to go back on the juice in the future, or he develops some other condition related to diabetes, at that point in time, I will understand what is going on, and I will know how to deal with it. THAT is the most comforting feeling in the world. THAT is what you're joining up here will do for you as well some day in the future.

Now - go get that meter and let us know what's going on with Sushi's daily cycles! THAT will enable you to feel so much more in control of the current chaos. And it will enable everyone here who wants to help a much better opportunity to help you and Sushi.

Looking forward to hearing what Sushi wants to tell us....

Carl in SC
 
Thank you so much everyone! I'll write more later, but I'm on my way out the door to pick up more insulin and the supplies you suggested. One quick question:
How should I decrease the amount of insulin I give? Do I do it all at once or a unit at a time?
Take today's evening dosage for example, I would normally give him 5u. Could I just drop back to 3u? Or is that too drastic?
 
Cutting back the dose while you are not testing is a safe thing to do but as some have said, do not cut back too much or you can run the real risk of complications like ketones.

There is no way to know how much to cut back, so perhaps by 1-2 units. Learn to test, then see where things are at. Meanwhile, test the urine every day for ketones and watch for any signs that he feels worse.

Things WILL get easier

Jen
 
bumping you up and I sent a message to a more experienced member in the Lantus group. Jen is right it is a balancing act on just how much to reduce at this time.
 
I'M SO ANGRY I WANT TO CRY!!! I just spent an hour in loud, obnoxious Wal-Mart gathering supplies and waiting in a LONG line. I arrived at the counter to discover my vet still hadn't called in our insulin prescription. A prescription I requested at 12:30 and was assured would be ready this afternoon!! As if I haven't had enough trouble with this vet!!! We may have to skip tonight and tomorrow morning's dose because of this! Dealing with this FD hard enough; my vet makes things so so much more complicated and frustrating!! cat(2)_steam

I noticed there were 3 types of ReliOn Meters: Confirm, Ultima and Micro. Any suggestions on which to get?
Confirm: http://www.walmart.com/ip/RELION-CONFIRM-METER-BLUE/13863716
Ultima: http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Ultima-Blood-Glucose-Monitor/3555238
Micro: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Micro-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System-Kit/14053308
 
Welcome to the family,

To answer your question about the Relion Meters...Either the Confirm or the Micro are good meters I don't know much about the Ultima, no hands on experience with it, but I do use the Relion Micro for my sugarcat Maxwell.

Really sorry you are having such a difficult time with your vet, but you ar already getting great advice from the folks here, and you will soon learn you have been incredibly blessed to stumble on to us.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
The Micro is small and really easy to handle when your other hand might be tied up with Sushi. I also like the 50 reading memory (but they all probably have that ability) in case I forget to write in Bob's Log right away. The Confirm is just a bit larger. Nice thing is that they use the same strips, so if you try one and don't like it, you can get the other and not have to pay for different strips at the same time. In the local wal-mart yesterday, they were each $9. And strips were $9 for 20, or $20 for fifty. I've got a Micro.
Likewise, I have no experience with the Ultima.

Carl
 
Thanks again everyone!
The drama continues...after several phone calls to my vet, and 10 (yes, 10!) calls to the WalMart pharmacy, I still don't have an insulin refill.* I think I can squeeze one more dose out of this pooped out bottle for tonight (even though we're 2 hours late), but what about the morning? I have a bottle that expires 7/12 that I started using in January and began pooping out in May. Is it better to use old/pooped out insulin than none at all?

*No lie, the pharmacist said my vet called, and his voice started to slow down "like a broken tape recorder," and then the call cut off before he authorized the prescription. Really!?!?! You can't make this stuff up! :roll:
 
Ashley
I just bumped up your post in lantus.

carl
 
Wanted to pop in and say hello! You've gotten wonderful advice so far and I don't want to pile on a ton of additional info. With your Lantus question...Has the vial been in the fridge this whole time? If not, it's definitely dead. If so, it still probably is, but might be better than nothing. I don't know that it would be harmful, just likely ineffective.

As an FYI, since costs are a concern right now, I'd echo the suggestions for the Relion Confirm or Micro meters. They are great little meters that require very little blood for a reading and their strips cost much less in store than most other meters. You can also get the strips for them online at American Diabetes Wholesale. Once things calm down for you, I can happily provide you the info!

Your first step is definitely home testing... the key to being able to make good dosing decisions is knowing how the insulin is/isn't working for Sushi. I know it must be extremely frustrating to be spending all this money on insulin, food and supplies only to have your sweet kitty still be miserable. The folks here were a GODSEND to us when we were first diagnosed and we too had problems with a vet (who eventually kicked us out of her practice for being "noncompliant!!"). I have put Willie's life in their hands many times and have never been steered wrong. In no time, you'll have a full handle on Sushi's care and will be able to be a strong advocate for his care.

Once you're home testing and you can monitor his progress, the next step, if you're amenable is to make the switch to low-carb wet food if you can, and if you're able to do that, also reduce the dose. The wet food definitely doesn't have to be pricey... many here feed Fancy Feast or even Special Kitty from Walmart. The large cans are very economical options. You'll also want to get some high carb foods from the Janet and Binky's list (think food in cans with gravy) and some karo syrup for situations in which Sushi's numbers are too low and you need to get them up. Others have mentioned Ketostix as well. These are important for you as you attempt to lower the dose. You test Sushi's urine with them to determine the presence of ketones. They are very dangerous, but if caught early, you can take steps to help flush them from Sushi's system. If they continue, Sushi can develop diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), which is a very dangerous condition that involves days in the hospital to treat, thousands of dollars, and it can still be fatal. $15 for that little jar of strips is money VERY well spent.

One more question... any chance we can get a first name? Would love to give you a proper welcome!! :-D
 
Okay, I'm getting really worried. Sushi is in rough shape. He hasn't eaten anything since 6:30pm, so I haven't been able to give him his PM dose yet. He's sleepy, uninterested in food, his breathing seems labored and every now and then he lets out a sigh/groan. All of these things happen frequently, but not at the same time. :cry:
I so hope tomorrow's a better day!!
 
Any luck on getting Sushi to eat? Those symptoms are a bit worrisome, but not an area in which I've got a ton of experience... you may want to add your comments to your post in Lantus Land as well to get it some more eyes.
 
are you able to test your kitty's blood sugar now? did you say that you did pick up a relion meter or are you still deciding between models?

sorry, i just skimmed your long thread and am fixated on your last post. if you can test now, please do so and repost.

and btw, could everyone not go on about the large dose? if the cat's been on that dose for awhile the dose is likely not a crisis. my cat came here on a high dose as well and there are reasons sometimes for it. before you mess with the dose, the first step is to get hometesting.
 
fwiw, the ultima is the older version. the confirm and micro are the newer meters and require less blood and no coding. very much like the freestyle meters. also, some people have found that their walmarts don't keep a lot of the test strips on hand for the ultima
 
sushie's person (god I wish I knew your name)
can you let us know what is happening. do you need help? we are here with you ok.
we can help...just let us know.
do you need a phone number to talk to someone?
Lori
 
At the start of this thread she said her name was ashley
 
thank you carl!
dear ashley,,,,we are here.
you know that right?
we will stick this out with you....
lori
 
Hi!
Yes, my name is Ashley; I'm sorry I haven't answered questions, I just feel distracted by all of this, but I do plan to! No luck with getting Sushi to eat. I've tried all sorts of tricks but nothing's worked. I gave him a treat about an hour ago; he ate that...I picked him up and put him on the floor to make him walk, he got some water and settled on the floor for another nap...just looked over and he's snoozing sprawled out/belly up as usual. I'm really really trying not to worry. I know this is a bad situation, but worrying as much as I want to won't help!

I didn't end up getting a glucose meter today*--I'll go get one now if you think I should. I'm anxious about the fact that I haven't ever used one before; do you think it would be okay to try and tackle that new task in this situation?

Thank you for all of your support!!!!


*I was going to try a prescription discount card today. The pharmacist said I could put the glucose meter and all my other supplies on the discount card if my vet prescribed them, I decided to try to get that accomplished. I didn't expect that I would be insulin and supply-less when the day was done or I may have decided differently!
 
yes it would be fine to test now. i'm a little worried that sushi is acting lethargic - that can be one sign of hypoglycemia. did you give sushi insulin tonight? if so, how many hours ago?
 
honestly, if you gave insulin tonight and this is not normal behavior, i think i would assume that you might need to get some sugar into sushi.

is there anyone else who can go to the store and get a meter and test strips while you stay with sushi?
 
I just thought of another trick AND HE'S EATING!! HOORAY!!!!! :razz:

Now, is it too late to give him a dose?? He was supposed to get it at 6:30pm; it's 10:30pm now here I am.
 
julie1220 said:
did you give sushi insulin tonight? if so, how many hours ago?
Click to expand...
No, the last dose I gave was around 6:30AM.

Okay maybe I got excited too soon--he's finished eating, so he only ate a few bites--still, should I give him his PM dose?
 
lantus is a 12 hour apart shot insulin. if you shoot now, you need to be ok shooting 12 hours from now.

but if i were you, i would want a meter to test him, ashley. is sushi a he, btw?

also, my kitty is a big boy, on a large dose of lantus as well. you've got company. my punkin's been diabetic since december.
 
sorry! i see he's a he! :-D ohmygod_smile

any way to pick up a meter & strips still tonight? i don't think it matters that much which model, as long as it's not on its way to being extinct! :lol:
 
julie1220 said:
lantus is a 12 hour apart shot insulin. if you shoot now, you need to be ok shooting 12 hours from now.
Click to expand...
That's do-able for me; in fact that would prob work best; it would give me more time to get his insulin refilled. SHOULD I DO IT??

julie1220 said:
is sushi a he, btw?

also, my kitty is a big boy, on a large dose of lantus as well. you've got company. my punkin's been diabetic since december.
Click to expand...
Yes; Sushi's a boy.
I'm glad to hear it! I was getting wigged out about my large dose--we'll see how it shakes out!
 
ohmygosh - i just saw your avatar picture. sushi's GORGEOUS! and he is a big boy! he looks so proud! there can be underlying health reasons why a cat might need larger than average doses of insulin, btw.

i don't know if you should shoot or not. it's up to you - your hand on it.

i'm a fan of hometesting so i don't shoot without testing, although i did it for 3 months at the beginning before i found FDMB.

if his last shot was 16 hours ago, i don't think he just had a hypo event. more likely the heat or something else, or you'd have had it happen sooner. lantus hits its peak around 6 hours after the shot. so again, it's up to you. i want to really encourage you to not wait on getting hometesting though. the soonest moment possible, pick up the glucometer and let us help you get started.
 
julie1220 said:
ohmygosh - i just saw your avatar picture. sushi's GORGEOUS! and he is a big boy! he looks so proud!
Click to expand...
So is Punkin (that's who is in the picture, right?) I thought the same thing when I saw him. Our guys look very very similar in the face--they could be brothers! : )
 
did you decide to go ahead and shoot?

and yes, this will give you time in the morning to get your new insulin bottle. with a dose of 6u, for now, you're going to find that the vial will probably be worth the money. i figured out that 7units is about the dividing line between being more effective to buy the pens versus the vial, unless you are able to find some pharmacy to sell you 1 pen at a time. some will do that. you're on the line for cost effectiveness, so it probably doesn't matter much if you go pen or vial.

when you get the new insulin and a meter with strips, also get neosporin OINTMENT with pain relief. then you'll be set to get back on here.

the next step is to get a spreadsheet set up and get the hometesting figured out. just know it will take you a couple of days to get the hang of it and don't be discouraged until you've gotten it. i remember at 4 days thinking "i've only been doing this for 4 days. i can keep doing it and i can get it!" it's often rough to start!

also, since we don't know if sushi's BG is high or not, one good tip is to add water to his canned food. you can add up to 50% and he probably will eat it just fine. diabetic cats pee out their water and end up dehydrated - all cats have a poor thirst instinct, so just add the water in. at the least it won't do anything except fill the litter box more, but at best it will keep him from developing ketones if his BG is high.

when you're a little settled, come on over to the Lantus forum! that's where i "live!" :lol: along with a lot of other lantus users. the main forum is the awesome place where you are now that greets everyone new coming in. someone from here posted in lantus that you needed advice for sushi.

hopefully you're ok now. i'm gonna think the lethargy was not diabetes related, or at least not hypoglycemia related.

are ya ok? if so, i'm gonna leave you in these able hands and will see you in the lantus forum tomorrow!

ah, just saw your post. that's punkin - but he's all orange everywhere. there's pics of him in my signature line. i think he's gorgeous, but i admit i'm biased!
 
Thanks Julie!
I decided that he didn't eat enough to "shoot" him. He seems to be a bit more perky so I'm not as worried.
I also think I've been helicopter-ing over him all night, and I need to leave him alone. He might just be annoyed with me and won't eat out of spite (he's hardheaded like that). So I set a timer for 30 mins and told myself I'm not allowed to bother him again until it goes off.
Go ahead and go; we'll pick up the adventure again tomorrow.
Thanks again!! : )
 
Was there an original refilled allowed on the vial? Can you check you label? You would need a new rx for the pens, but for now a refill on the vial would do.

Has Sushi eaten any more? What did you feed him? Any canned food yet?

Paws crossed that the vet gets his act together soon. At least try to get the meter and ketostix today.
 
Hello Ashley! My cousin's name is Ashly, w/o the "e". Welcome to FDMB!

Cedric was on insulin for a month, and thanks to the good folks here, was able to get into remission quicker than my vet thought. My vet has some experience with diabetes in dogs & cats, having one of each at home (his vet GF, I believe). he was still impressed with the quickness of Cedric's remission. I don't think that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't taken away the dry. I also think that shooting the inculin into his side belly area helped as well.

I use the Relion Micro because it's small and cheap (strips are cheaper too). My mom works for McKession (a company that supplies medical stuff to dr's offices) and would have gotten me a meter and strips, but this was better (mom lives 1000 miles away - and might be laid off from her job anyway). Testing is what I have always had problems with - even today! I still test Cedric about every 3 days, even though he is diet controlled. I buy the lancets that are 28 gague and get them from Target. It's more convienent that Wal-Mart, and I like them because they have a cap. Cedric gets too interested in things and I don't want him to poke the needle of the lancet in his mouth!

To be blunt, I'd ditch that frackin vet for a new one. :evil: I'm in FL, so I can't give you any advice or refererals, but I would consider looking for a new vet.

Hugs to you both!
 
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