Hi, newly diagnosed today

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TigzMom

TigzMom

Member Since 2015
Hi, I just got the call from the vet this afternoon, confirming that, Tiggy, my 15 yr old kitty, has diabetes now..(on top of the asthma he has had since he was a baby kitten).
Yes, he is a bit overweight, as he loves his treats and his food, but finding out that his blood glucose levels were at 410 today was quite a shock.
I just recently noticed that he has been drinking more water and peeing more than usual, which is why I took him to the vet.
I'm scheduled to get trained tomorrow at the vets to learn to give Tiggy his insulin shots. I've also read the info on this site regarding using a glucose monitor, which I will be getting, along with monitoring his BG levels, and changing his diet. The vet recommended the canned Purina DM. I did read a couple of posts where others stated something about using another alternative less expensive canned food, which would be great.
Right now, I'm just overwhelmed and freaking out. And here I thought having to deal with his asthma was bad.
Oh my!
 

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Welcome to FDMB.
... and breathe ...
You can do this.
Food list and info at Cat Info. I feed all 16 at my house Friskies pates, except Mixed Grill.
I home test with a WalMart ReliOn Confirm Micro, matching test strips, and lancets for alternate site testing.
Long lasting insulin in cats: ProZinc, Levemir, Lantus, BCP PZI. These can be given every 12 hours in most cats. Other insulins do not generally last 12 hours, so insist on 1 of these 4. Lantus and Levemir are cheaper in Canada than in the US. Compare prices on a per unit basis, not on the total price.
 
Welcome! We have some similarities as I joined yesterday also. My cat, Tigger was diagnosed yesterday just like yours. His bg was at 427. I had noticed he was drinking a lot and rapidly lost 5 pounds. He was overweight at 18 pounds and we had recently changed his dry food as he wasn't eating it. We switched over to Purina cat chow and he devoured it along with his wet food at night. So I thought that's why he lost weight, he just didn't like his food anymore. But something told me to take him to the vet and glad I did. Like you, I've been freaking out for the last 24 hours. In fact I'm waiting for a call back right now from the vet as I had a question about giving him snacks. I did my first insulin shot this morning my husband did it last night. So far so good and he loves that PurinaDM food! And here I was worried that I was the one that was going to get diabetes as it runs in my family so much ! This is a whole new world for us so I'm so happy to have found this website.
 
BJ's right.. mine was diagnosed about a month ago but not treated until less than a week ago. Look at some of my posts! Listen to BJ and the other experienced people on here. They saved my sanity and very likely saved my cat's life (my husband was likely to tell me at some point that I was going to give myself a nervous breakdown and it was time to let go). Oh, and have BJ show you how to set up a spreadsheet. It's a great tool.
 
Sounds good. The spreadsheet should certainly help keep all these details in order. And, I agree, it is great help to have this site!
I just returned from learning how to give Tiggy his insulin shots as well as picked up the insulin et al., at the pharmacy. Other than the trip to and from the vet, (he hates the car rides), he really has been handling this much better than "his mama".
One question I did have that I'm hoping someone can answer is, in the injection training at the vets, the vet tech kept telling me to draw up the insulin to the 2nd line with the syringes he was training on as Tiggy has to have 2 mls AM and PM. The syringe he used in the training had increments of 5, then 10, etc marked with 5 smaller lines in between each number. Thus, he kept saying that 2mls was where the 2nd line was. Yet when I opened the syringes that the vet ordered, I noticed that the numbers listed on the syringe were 10, 20, 30, on up to 100, with 5 lines inbetween each number. As I assumed I'd be trained on the syringes I'd be using, I was surprised.
As Tiggy needed his insulin, am I correct in understanding that 1) the individual lines in the syringes I received from the pharmacy, appear to be 2ml increments each, rather than 1ml each? , And 2)the syringes the vet tech used in training are perhaps U-50 syringes or something?
I figure giving less insulin to Tiggy is better than giving him more (if I'm incorrect).
The vets is closed, but I plan on calling them in the AM. And, yes, I did purchase all the hypo supplies as suggested. Better safe than sorry.
Sorry for the long post. Still freaking out.
To be honest, I think I'd deal with this illness better if I had this, rather than my sweet little fur baby.
 
Look at the box. Does it say u40 or u100? If you are giving ProZinc, they generally have you use u40 syringes but you can use u100 (with conversion chart that I have yet to look at).
 
oh, and units are not the same as ml. I understand people have gotten confused before. Your insulin vial is probably only 10ml (same as 10cc).
 
I'm supposed to give him 2 (not sure what the units are called..ul?) twice a day.
All I know is what I was taught by the vet tech as listed in my post.. So confusing.
 
If you go to the message board main page and go down to the bottom, there's a board for Lantin users. I'd check there. I use ProZinc & don't want to steer you wrong.
 
So far, Tiggy seems fine. I also changed his diet to a high protein / grain -free canned meat (Wellness grain-free & Nutro grain-free). His appetite is good. We'll see.
 
We were told to give our Tigger 1 &1/2 cans of Purina DM at each feeding..seems like so much! But we are mixing it with his Friskies Meaty Bits...just switched him over last night, doing half and half, and will gradually increase till he is completely on the DM food. Question is: how long does this take, the transition? He gobbles it all up!
 
SuePea- also, I saw the conversion chart attached to your note above, but the vial of Lantus 10cc says 100units/ml (U-100), so I don't believe a conversion is necessary since the syringes are U-100. But I could be wrong. I'm checking with the vet today.
 
No conversion is necessary since as you Lantus is a U100 insulin and you have U100 syringes. Only pet insulins like ProZinc and Vetsulin are U40. All human insulins are U100 (except for R insulin which is available in U500, There may be a U400 one too).
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/5/1240.full

1 1/2 cans of DM (5.5/6 oz cans) seems high but may be required for an unregulated cats. How is Tigger's weight doing? You really feed enough to maintain the desired weight. The rule of thumb is one 5.5/6 oz can a day
 
Okay, so I got a glucose blood monitor but I just have not mastered this yet. Tiggy kept meowing every time I poked his ear with the lancet even though I was using a 33 gauge size/ultra micro lancet. I also tried using the lancing device, and I still couldn't get enough blood, except from me when I poked my thumb a couple of times.
Part of the problem is that I have a cast on my right thumb / arm (from surgery) and yes, I am right-handed.
I just finally gave up..the BG machine will have to wait for now.
Tiggy has been eating his canned meat, but he's not eating as much food or "asking" for as much food / treats as he has in the past. He ate 6-7 oz of canned meat yesterday and 5.5/6 oz of canned meat today. Is that is good?
However, he is now keenly aware of the insulin shots and starts to look very nervous when I open the frig door. He's actually been very good about the shots, especially because I have to hold him between my knees to keep him still while giving him his shot.
I also feel terribly guilty as I know he is uncomfortable going thru all of this. Then again, maybe it's just me who is uncomfortable with all this. (I have intermittent bouts of crying). Tiggy does seem to be a little more depressed though. I just don't want him to suffer. This is all very upsetting.
 
High glucose can cause lethargy which may look like depression. As you get the glucose controlled, he will start to feel better.
See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for other assessments you can do to help monitor him. He is more than a glucose number :-)
Once you are blood testing, use our grid to record your glucose tests which will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
TigzMom said:
Okay, so I got a glucose blood monitor but I just have not mastered this yet. Tiggy kept meowing every time I poked his ear with the lancet even though I was using a 33 gauge size/ultra micro lancet. I also tried using the lancing device, and I still couldn't get enough blood, except from me when I poked my thumb a couple of times.
Part of the problem is that I have a cast on my right thumb / arm (from surgery) and yes, I am right-handed.
I just finally gave up..the BG machine will have to wait for now.

I also feel terribly guilty as I know he is uncomfortable going thru all of this. Then again, maybe it's just me who is uncomfortable with all this. (I have intermittent bouts of crying). Tiggy does seem to be a little more depressed though. I just don't want him to suffer. This is all very upsetting.
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Sometimes using a larger lancet is actually better and easier on you and your cat. For instance, I use 30 gauge lancets and just hand hold them; I don't use the lancet device. Some people use even larger gauge lancets. Though it's a bigger poke, at least you only have to poke once, or sometimes twice closely spaced, to get a large enough sample for testing. The less poking, the better for both of you. Also, you can trying warming his ears to get better blood flow. Using Neosporin (the petroleum jelly based kind) or Vaseline can help the blood bead better so its easier to get a sample.

You sure picked the wrong time to have a cast on your dominant hand ;) . Even after being practiced at testing, I can't imagine trying to test one handed. You should pat yourself on the back (I suppose with the non-casted arm) for being able to get any tests at all and being able to give insulin shots. About stabbing yourself while testing, I still have that happen on occasion too.

Starting the diabetic journey can be difficult for both you and Tiggy. Although, it often seems that the people caring for diabetic cats are more troubled by the whole thing than the cats themselves. Just know that you are not alone in feeling this way. It's a very common feeling. It does get easier with time and practice.

You're definitely doing a good job caring for Tiggy. Keep trying with the hometesting perhaps with a larger gauge lancet to make getting those samples easier. Hometesting will help you to get a better idea of how insulin is effecting your cat and will help keep him safe. Hopefully getting Tiggy regulated will getting him feeling better and back to his happy self, which I'm sure will help you to feel better too.
 
Thanks so much for the feedback. I'll try the larger gauge lancet. I asked the pharmacist what size lancet is least likely to hurt which is why I got the smallest size in the first place.
And, I agree, the cast doesn't help, and, although it's been very challenging (2nd surg / same hand), I've learned to become ambidextrous. Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated.
 
I use a 29-gauge lancet and rather than the ear I use the paw. The inside of my cat's ears are too stinkin' hairy to use, and the paw is easier to control.
 
Thanks SuePea. You have alot of great ideas and info. (as does bsmith and BJM). I am a little apprehensive about poking Tigz paw as he yelps at the slightest pinch, prod or poke. And, the vet called again today and Tiggy also has a urinary tract infection. Lovely.. Poor kitty, asthma, diabetes and now a urinary tract infection. He's just having a very difficult time. I just started him on antibiotics this evening in addition to giving him his insulin. Fortunately, he seemed just a tiny bit perkier today. I am hoping that means his BG is lowering? I just didn't have a chance to get the 29-gauge lancets in order to test his BG, on my home BG machine, but I plan on doing this tomorrow.

When he's feeling well, he's normally quite a "talker". He seemed just a bit more "chatty" this evening than he has been the past few days (which certainly made me feel better). It also made me think he was feeling a little better, but perhaps he was just telling me how bad he feels..It kind of sounds like I'm co-dependent on my cat, huh?. Yikes! Oh well, at least I've learned to accept myself! lol.
 
Just some quick observations:

2 units is really a pretty high dose to start with...Most of us on Lantus start with 1 unit or less every 12 hours. How much does he weigh now? I saw you said he was 18lbs but had lost weight

Since you're transitioning to a low carb food, it's even more important that you do your best to get tests in. Dropping the carb percentage can drop the blood glucose 100 points or more....and since you only have the number from testing at the vet right now, due to "vet stress", that number can be up to 200 points higher than he'd be at home

Since he has a UTI, as that resolves, his numbers may very well come down too. Infection/pain can raise that BG number too!

As for testing, I totally understand you're under some trying circumstances, but hopefully you'll figure out how to do it with your "broken wing" because it really is important to keeping kitty safe.

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take Tiggy there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit! Find a good low carb treat to give even if it's just for letting you rub his ears. Some cats love freeze dried chicken, or just take a plain piece of chicken and boil it, chop it up and put some in the refrigerator and some in the freezer. Bonita Flakes are also a popular treat.

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him ...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make Tiggy nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

We suggest singing "The Hokey Pokey" song....LOL

On your syringes, those sound like the wrong kind to use around here. We use the U100 insulin syringes, 3/10cc with 30 or 31 gauge needles. You also need syringes with half unit markings. In the US, the easiest place to get those is WalMart. Their "Relion" 3/10cc insulin syringes all come with half unit markings (despite what they may tell you) It's very important to have those half unit marks because when we make adjustments to dose, they're done in .25 unit increments

They're about $12.88 for a box of 100

If you're at Walmart anyway, pick up a Relion Confirm or Micro meter (they take the tiniest sample size) and some "alternate site testing lancets" (usually 25-28 gauge). These will make bigger holes, but once your cat's ears "learn to bleed", you can go back to the smaller gauge lancets, like 32-33

Keep asking questions!! The people here love to help others and "pay forward" the kindness given to them when they were new and scared
 
Thanks so much for all the info. I promise I am doing the best I can. I am alone so I am struggling with only one hand working well, but I do have my furry baby's best interest at heart. It is 12:30AM but will go to the store as soon as it opens to get the larger lancets in order to test before I feel Tiggy. I do appreciate all the info.
Thanks again!
 
And, I'll discuss the insulin doseage with the Vet as well. She told me that 2 units twice a day was a very small dose. I had no idea!? I am watching Tigz like a hawk for symptoms of hypoglycemia.
 
Each cat is different or ECID. Your vet's experience using prescription "diabetes" food which is higher carb than Friskies pates or Fancy Feast Classic pates, may indeed need 2 units twice a day. Share the Cat Info food list with the vet and compare the ingredients and nutrition of the prescription foods vs something like Fancy Feast.

We feed low carb food because it requires less insulin, so the pancreas may be able to heal and the cat may be able to become diet controlled.
 
TigzMom: We are also using 2 units but of Vetsulin. Tiggers numbers are pretty good yesterday during his glucose curve test, mostly under 300. She said to keep him on the 2 units. Currently we have him on the Purina DM because we were at the vets and that's what they had, but since we will be going off a long road trip shortly we're going to switch him over probably to the Fancy Feast dinners... Mostly for the convenience of being on the road and just be able to buy his food in the market or a pet store rather than a specialty place or a vet's office. The vet said that was fine, and no need to transition slowly. I think she likes the Tiki food...most are zero carbs! But they would be hard to find on the road. I was freaking out a few days ago and today on the fourth day things are much calmer and I feel Better about his diagnosis!
 
Transitioning food slowly over several days helps avoid diarrhea and vomiting, plus food refusals. Even when manufacturers send out new batches of the same food, cats may experience these.

We suggest changing about 20-25% of the food each day until the switch is complete. This lets you monitor for GI issues, and more importantly, if there are glucose changes you will have time to see them without your cat dropping into a full fledged hypoglycemic attack.
 
Chris & China said:
As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

We suggest singing "The Hokey Pokey" song....LOL
Click to expand...
I always go with "Soft Kitty." It's Edwin's favorite and helps to get him relaxed and purring. I also sing it when giving him his medication and sometimes just when we're cuddling. Oh goodness, I've been dressing my cat up and singing him his "favorite" song. Have I crossed over into crazy cat lady land yet?
 
CarolandTigger said:
TigzMom: We are also using 2 units but of Vetsulin. Tiggers numbers are pretty good yesterday during his glucose curve test, mostly under 300. She said to keep him on the 2 units. Currently we have him on the Purina DM because we were at the vets and that's what they had, but since we will be going off a long road trip shortly we're going to switch him over probably to the Fancy Feast dinners... Mostly for the convenience of being on the road and just be able to buy his food in the market or a pet store rather than a specialty place or a vet's office. The vet said that was fine, and no need to transition slowly. I think she likes the Tiki food...most are zero carbs! But they would be hard to find on the road. I was freaking out a few days ago and today on the fourth day things are much calmer and I feel Better about his diagnosis!
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I was looking for the Tiki foods and I can't find them except through mail order. I don't know if any pet stores carry it. If they do, it's gonna be spendy!
 
Thanks for all the great info. I initially tried the canned Purina DM, (since it was recommended by my vet), but Tiggy doesn't seem to care for it so he was eating the FF classics. However tonight, he hardly ate but two or three bits, so I thought it best to skip his insulin shot tonight just to be safe.
Both the vets office cautioned about making sure he ate prior to his injection as well as the posts on the posts on this site.
I assume he is still adjusting to the insulin and taking antibiotics for his UTI.
And, I believe Tiki cat is available at Petfood Express which is the Petfood store that is owned by Whole Foods. Not all Whole Foods stores has one of these next to them. My Whole Foods has one and it is built like a separate store. Not sure if they sell stuff on-line?
 
Tiggy likes dry food as he is used to both canned and dry (grazing on dry during the day).. So, to make sure he's eating I am trying to get him to eat dry food at least
 
Since you don't have your spreadsheet up and running yet, can you remind me of when you started Lantus and the dose you've been giving? The no food = no shot is typically for the older types of insulin, but not for Lantus. Lantus works differently and many vets are not educated about this. I'm hoping someone who is better than me with dosing will stop by soon, as skipping the shot may not be in Tiggy's best interest. Too bad you're still having a difficult time with BG testing. That could really help in making this decision. Tagging @Chris & China, @Larry and Kitties, and @BJM.
 
TigzMom said:
Thanks for all the great info. I initially tried the canned Purina DM, (since it was recommended by my vet), but Tiggy doesn't seem to care for it so he was eating the FF classics. However tonight, he hardly ate but two or three bits, so I thought it best to skip his insulin shot tonight just to be safe.
Both the vets office cautioned about making sure he ate prior to his injection as well as the posts on the posts on this site.
I assume he is still adjusting to the insulin and taking antibiotics for his UTI.
And, I believe Tiki cat is available at Petfood Express which is the Petfood store that is owned by Whole Foods. Not all Whole Foods stores has one of these next to them. My Whole Foods has one and it is built like a separate store. Not sure if they sell stuff on-line?
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Thanks for the tip on Whole Foods. We recently got one in Boise so I'll have to see if they carry it. It might be worth it because it's not only zero-carb, it's low on phosphorus--good for my aging kitty's kidneys!
 
Tiggy is on 2 units of Lantis in the AM and 2 units in the PM. The vets instructions were that he has to eat before I give him the injection or he could get hypoglycemia. He only ate 2 tiny bits, hardly anything, so I am just concerned. And it is too late to call the vets office to ask. They just said to skip
the dose. I see the vet next week for a blood glucose. And I'm trying to set up a spreadsheet, and I'm just confused by it. I am not clear on what goes where on the sheet. I'm keeping a log book and will put everything into a spreadsheet as soon as I can.
 
It's kind of complicated and confusing at first. Don't worry about that colored stuff at the top; it's just a legend. The far left column is for the date, then the next column is the morning pre-shot reading, then how many units you gave. Then the following columns are for each hour post-shot, up to +11, then it starts over for the evening. At the far right is a place to put notes. If you want, look at my sheet to see what I did. once you enter a BG value it will color code it. The dark green and blue are the best readings, then yellow, then red then black is bad news. And the neon green is hypoglycemic.
 
TigzMom said:
Tiggy is on 2 units of Lantis in the AM and 2 units in the PM. The vets instructions were that he has to eat before I give him the injection or he could get hypoglycemia. He only ate 2 tiny bits, hardly anything, so I am just concerned. And it is too late to call the vets office to ask. They just said to skip
the dose. I see the vet next week for a blood glucose. And I'm trying to set up a spreadsheet, and I'm just confused by it. I am not clear on what goes where on the sheet. I'm keeping a log book and will put everything into a spreadsheet as soon as I can.
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In the meantime can you just type in your BG readings into a message for now? You might want to post this over on the Lantus/Levemir board: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/ They can give you much better advice than I can.

Thanks @Sweet Pea, I was in the middle of adding spreadsheet instructions too. I'll post them anyways. Feel free to ignore them if you've already got it. About the spreadsheet, @BJM's instructions are further up in the thread. In the spreadsheet row, the first box is for the date. AMPS is your morning test before you give the AM shot. The blue box with "U" is how many units of insulin you gave for the AM shot. The following boxes are the hours (1-11) between the AM shot and the PM shot. At hour 12 you reach the PMPS box, which is the evening test before your PM shot. Blue box is units of insulin again. The following boxes are hours (1-11) between the PM and AM shot. Then that wraps you back around to the next day. Rinse and repeat. Your day clock is all now relative to when you are able to give shots. If you give shots at 8:00 am and 8:00 pm then AMPS=8:00 am, AMPS +2=10:00 am, etc. with PMPS=8:00 pm, PMPS +6=2:00 am, etc. Ask me more questions if you are still confused.
 
BJM said:
Transitioning food slowly over several days helps avoid diarrhea and vomiting, plus food refusals. Even when manufacturers send out new batches of the same food, cats may experience these.

We suggest changing about 20-25% of the food each day until the switch is complete. This lets you monitor for GI issues, and more importantly, if there are glucose changes you will have time to see them without your cat dropping into a full fledged hypoglycemic attack.
Click to expand...
BJM is so right. The first day that Charlie was on insulin, was the first day he went to a lower-carb food. She told me to hit him with 2 units of ProZinc up front, which I did, and then didn't sleep the rest of the night because he went from a BG reading in the afternoon of about 400, down to 55 at +1! And on ProZinc, at +1 it's just hardly started working. We just went ahead with the heavier dose, not understanding how the food was going to affect his sugars.
 
Thanks so much for all the info. I'm still having issues even doing home blood glucose monitoring as Tiggy is pretty wiggy and vocal when I'm trying to do the blood sticks (even with the larger size lancets).
He is however, eating well now, as I picked up some Tiki Cat canned food from Pet Food Express. He apparently prefers that to Purina DM and even FF classics. (He never seemed to like pates). I think he is also feeling better from his UTI as I've been able to get the antibiotic pill down him as well.
I will make a point of typing in Tigz info on a spreadsheet ASAP, but it won't be tonight as I still have this raging migraine from lack of sleep and stress from all of this.
Thanks again for everyone's feedback and help. I just don't know what I'd do without you all. You're my angels.
 
Hooray for BG testing (even cranky testing), eating better, and feeling better! Now's definitely a good time to take care of you. I hope you get some good sleep tonight.
 
Thanks so much. Tiggy goes in for his BG testing with the vet today. He appears to be feeling much better (except for a little bit if diarrhea from his antibiotic). He is running around and "chatting" like his usual self. So, I'm much relieved. And, yes, I slept very good last night. Migraine gone today. But we'll see what the vet says and not get too excited until then. And, he loves, loves, loves Tiki Cat canned cat food. Who knew?! :)
 
:cat:So, Tiggy's BG is at 324, which is down from last week at 421. Which I think is good, right!? Not sure if it is supposed to be lower than that this early.? Am thinking it could be a teensy bit high only because he gets sooo stressed going to the vets. He definitely acted like a "Tasmanian devil" as I struggled getting him into the cat carrier one-handed. Oh my!
 
The vet is keeping him at the same dosage as she doesn't want his BG to dip to low. She also wants a glucose curve completed on him to actually see how low his levels do go to be sure.
 
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