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poodlewoman

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Hi all . Im new here and new to feline diabeties. My old cat Calli was just Dx'd on fri . Shes 15 1/2 and ive had her for 9 1/2 yrs. I feed a raw diet and dont vaccinate my animals. Doing fine with giving insulin -just need to get her eating but Im pureeing some lightly cooked meat and shringing it into her . Shes a very easy cat to work with TG and she is a nearly bald devon rex -sure makes giving needles easier !LOL Im a groomer and work from home so I dont have much of a problem fitting her care into my schedule or should i say fitting my schedule into her care . Shes pretty out of it still and is quite weak but her suagr was fairly high at 23 . Hopeing that I start to see improvements as her sugar gets under control. Any advise or tips would be great.
Thanks
Cilla and the Paisley poodle gang(plus a devon)
 
Hi and welcome,

Has her diet always been the raw or is this new since being diagnosed this week?

What insulin are you using? Have you heard anything about hometesting? It's the best way to treat your sweet girl and keep her safe. You will always be able to know what her blood sugar is and how her body is utilizing the insulin.

The raw diet that you are feeding, is it store bought or do you make it yourself? If you make it yourself do you have a recipe so she's getting all her nutrients? Sorry if I sound crazy asking this, I've met others that didn't realize that nutrients should be added.

Was there anything else going on when she was dx? Any infection, are the teeth okay? Just curious why she doesn't want to eat, wondering if something else is going on. Keep syringe feeding her until she does eat, it's very important if she's taking insulin to get food too, so that's great that you're doing that.
 
Shes been raw fed since I got her. I make my own and have been doing so for over 20 yrs. Her teeth are okay but there ay be an infection -we have her on clavamox to address that. her white count was a bit high. Useing Canisulin 0.5 units twice a day and yes absolutely making sure she gets food into her before her shot whether she wants to eat or not ! Im not monitoring at home YET -will be looking into that soon though. I just had one of my dog ill a few weeks back and im tapped out $$$ wise. Need to spend the long weekend doing lots of reading.
 
Hi and welcome to the board!
Lots of people have reported lack of appetite when kitty is on antibiotics. Have you seen the same thing before (assuming you've needed to use clavamox previously)?

As far as hometesting - If you look up towards the top of the index page, you'll see a sticky thread on "Newbie Kits". A kit would include everything you need to start hometesting. Usually Lori will send one out at no cost to you except for the cost of shipping. Please read the thread and contact Lori if you would like to get one.

Carl in SC
 
Carl,

From the sound of it, I think she may be in Europe somewhere. It would be easier for her to go to the pharmacy to pick up the meter, strips, lancets and ketone strips too.

Cilla - You may want to look into changing the insulin. Talk to the vet about Lantus (glargine). Levimer (detemir) or prozinc. We find that these insulins work better for cats. The good news you are on a low dose of insulin, which we also recommend, starting low 0.5 and with home testing, slowly adjust the dose accordingly. And when adjusting the dose, do so in 0.5 unit increments.

There is lots of information here, but I don't want to bombard and overwhelm you with too much to start.

What is important is getting her to eat. Like Carl said, sometimes the antibiotics makes them nauseous. If you have pepcid AC, you could give her 1/2 or 1/4 tablet to see if that helps. Will she eat canned foods? Maybe you want to try it, again just to get her eating and then go back to the raw diet.

so, where are you located?
 
Welcome to FDMB! You've come to the right place to learn about treating your dear extra sweet kitty.

Where are you located? (city/state/province/country) We have a global membership but most post in "English" units instead of metric -- the BG of 23 screams metric, which means non- U.S.

The conversion factor is 18x23 so most will recognize the 23 as 414.

We do have free newbie kits, but they are mailed from California -- sometimes international shipping is pretty expensive and the meters may not use test strips that are available in other parts of the world -- the meter make might need to be discussed to get one that you can buy more strips for later.
 
I saw the "23" and my first thought was Canada, which makes it easier for you to get a newbie kit if you need one. It should also make it easier, again, if you so choose, to switch to one of the longer lasting insulins mentioned by others.
Has Calli's appetite or general mood improved any?

Carl in SC
 
Re: Hi new Wahere

Glucometers are dirt cheap here in Canada, often free with the purchase of strips, so no need to wait for free kits. Go to Shoppers and see if they are having any specials. I have seen brand-name kits at WalMart for as cheap as $4.99!

Caninsulin isn't used much anymore for feline diabetes, but if you want to stay with it, you do want to start hometesting to make sure it's not too harsh on him. (It's called Vetsulin in the US.)

We have LOTS of GTA members, so there may be someone close by who can give you a hand with the basics, testing, etc. (I'm in NS, so a bit far... ;-) )

Welcome aboard.
 
thanks guys -Im gonna get out to check on kits this morning(wally world first I think ?) Didnt realize they were so cheap.(i think shipping of a newbe kit would probably end up costing more or at least equal) She did eat a few bites on her own this am -just a few mouthfuls of salmon but its a start. I also put a few more mouthfuls in her before shooting her. There is an interest in food at least ! Someone told me that the nueopathy is painful ?? I wonder if that could be affecting her appetite ? She does seem a bit brighter this am as well and when I watched her getting out of the litter box there seems to be a bit more co-ordination. It was the weakness and lack of co-ordination plus a general listlessness which sent me to the vet in the 1st place -all of which I thoought looked neuological in origin ? but now of course I know the origin . I will have to go with the canisulin for now cuz it is a long weekend and all but will definetly be looking into/and talking with my vet about the others. They are pretty good about taking my suggestions and input(the owner of the clinic paticularly who is unfortunatlay recovering from a bad accident) -however if they dont seem open I will take her to the cats only clinic in whitby ! Im pretty sure they will do whatever I ask .
Did I mention she is a pretty small cat ? She is a devon and lucky for me is in a no hair phase -I mean she looks like I took nair to her -she is SMOOTH which of course makes it easy to needle her ! And she is Not over wieght -on the contrary she could use half a pound or so . She also did have some elevated kidney levels -not huge (vet thought it was more age related kidney disease -but im thinking it is more related to the diabetes ?)
Anyway I just want to try and get her somewhat stablized and eating well then I can tweak things . Holy crap its a lot to take in !!!! Think Im gonna have to start printing stuff out and give her her own binder to keep it all straight !
 
With all the peeing diabetic kitties do, it's pretty common to see slightly high kidney levels from dehydration. Unless they are seriously elevated, don't worry and recheck them again later. Mix water with her food to increase the fluid intake.

While at WalMart, look for Webber Naturals Methyl B12 for the neuropathy. It works well (follow the link in my signature) and you can't give too much (they pee out any excess). If they don't have it there, check around - just don't buy any with Xylitol- it's toxic to cats.

The strips are the expensive part, and cost the same just about anywhere. I joined Shoppers Optimum Points just because of my sugarcat - at least you can get free supplies when you get enough points (shop on 20X days and those suckers add up fast!)

Also, remember that the Clavamox may be upsetting her tummy - that may be why she doesn't want to eat. Good job in getting her to eat something this morning.

You're doing great!
 
Okay so hopefully by mid week I can get the test strips 83.99 (which also gets you a free monitor kit ) keto strips they didnt have in stock :( or I would have picked those up.
I think getting the monitor will be my first priority $$ wise . Damn If I hadnt maxed out the friggin credit cards on one of my dogs recently I would just get it but Im damn strapped .Im also gonna talk to the vet about a prescription for Lantus .
Anyway she ate a little more food on her own about a hr after her shot so at least she has an interest . Gonna get to the global pet foods when they open and get some good quaility canned food and tripe to see if that gets her appetite up.
I did go out yesterday and get her the methyl b12 ( i found xylithol FREE subligual form !) which she has had 2 doses of now and also giving a chromium suppliment .
Anyway she seems a bit more responsive today and was purring while she ate so i think we are getting there.
 
In Canada, you don't need a prescription -- you can buy Lantus or Levemir at Wally world. My last 5-pack of Levemir cost about $120. (US and Canadian $ are about par right now - I'm in Michigan about 35 miles from Windsor. The insulin is much less expensive in CA.
 
Oh cool - I didnt even ask about presription -I just assumed ? Anyway yeah its $119.16 for the 3X 5ml vials.Thats for latus -sounds like the levimir is cheaper then ???
 
Levemir is about that too -- but Levemir lasts longer.

Lantus is guaranteed for 28 days unrefrigerated.
Levemir is guaranteed for 42 days unrefrigerated.
If you refrigerate and handle gently, and never re-use a syringe or shoot excess insulin back into the cartridge - it will last longer than the guaranteed minimum.

Lantus has an acidic liquid base, so at large doses, it can sting.
Levemir is in a neutral base liquid, so no sting at any dose.

Anyway, Tiggy gets 0.5u BID, so the 5 pack of Levemir lasts us more than a year. Sometimes we've been able to use the cartridge to the last drop before it seemed weak. (evidenced by higher BG readings than "usual")
 
Excellent info I will aim to use the levemir -hopefully next week is a busy grooming week (meaning more $$$ avaialble )and i can get both a monitor and the better insulin for her .
 
A couple of lines below the logo in the upper left hand corner of this page is the "User Control Panel." Click on it and when it comes up, select "Profile." Put your city, province, country, in the field labeled "Location." Your location will appear to the right on all your posts and save you the trouble of answering the question again and again.

You can find info about home testing above if you click on the topic, "Feline Diabetes FAQ- newcomers, start here!" Once you get your meter and start testing, you can share blood glucose test results with us. Go to the FDMB Index Page, click on Tech Support, then click on the topic, "How to Create Your Own SS and Publish It in Your Signature." If you enter your test info into this spreadsheet you will be sharing it with all of us.

Lana
 
Dear Cilla, and, of course, you too, sweet Calli,

poodlewoman said:
Holy crap its a lot to take in !!!! Think Im gonna have to start printing stuff out and give her her own binder to keep it all straight !
Click to expand...
Yup.

poodlewoman said:
Damn If I hadnt maxed out the friggin credit cards on one of my dogs recently I would just get it but Im damn strapped .Im also gonna talk to the vet about a prescription for Lantus .
Click to expand...
It sucks being strapped, doesn't it? Yup...

poodlewoman said:
Oh cool - I didnt even ask about presription -I just assumed ? Anyway yeah its $119.16 for the 3X 5ml vials.Thats for latus -sounds like the levimir is cheaper then ???
Click to expand...
Nikki rescued me on Lantus. She was on it for 18 months or so. She would occasionally yeowl about 15-20 minutes after her shot. I asked a few human diabetics who take Lantus about that. They said it burns sometimes at the injection site a little while after the shot. Nikki's been on Levemir for at least two years now. I love Levemir. Better yet, Levemir loves Nikki!



Long ago and far away I was blessedly and cursedly owned by a cat named Gizmo. She was a one-person hellion from the moment she graced my life at eight weeks of black kitten fluff age. Her family nicknames were Cujo, Gizzie Blair, and The Spawn Of Satan. She was diagnosed extra sweet shortly after her 14th Birthday. She taught me volumes about dancing with a sugar cat for four years. Diabetes didn't take her. Being like 90, she simply decided her work here was done. I miss her to this day. Why? She taught me to be brave. She taught me to think outside the box. She taught me to always be in the present moment. She taught me to dance... (Fortunately, we both had a fondness for Motown...)

And, about a year later, she sent Nikki to rescue me and my heart. Nikki is quirky. I'm good with quirky. At least Giz sent me a cat who actually eats cat food!

Giz defined picky eating. She would want me to suggest parmesan cheese sprinkled on whatever food you're giving Calli. Giz would say stinkifying food helps an appetite. Then again, I'm more of a Baytril AB mom. Yes, there are potential side effects; but, it is the most tummy friendly AB I know and, therefore, trust.

Did I mention there is nothing like dancing with a sugar cat? There is a bond that develops that you can't even begin to imagine; and, trust me, Cilla, I have a great imagination! It just happens and you just smile each and every day. You celebrate Calli walking more steps -- and she will. You celebrate each and every day because each and every day is a celebration! You dance!





You have cursed probably equal to my eight years and change of typing out loud on the FDMB. I honestly believe you're good to dance!

Welcome to the place you never, ever wanted to be; but (and sometimes Buts are good!) will be blessed for having found.

Love and countless encouraging hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
Well it turns out a freind is diabetic and recently got herself a new meter and she is giving me her old one with about 10 test strips still left ! So at least I can start testing her over the long weekend -how great is that !!! Can I just say I LOVE Facebook !!!put it out there and boom someone comes to the rescue.
 
Dear Cilla, and, of course, you too, sweet Calli,

poodlewoman said:
Well it turns out a freind is diabetic and recently got herself a new meter and she is giving me her old one with about 10 test strips still left ! So at least I can start testing her over the long weekend -how great is that !!! Can I just say I LOVE Facebook !!!put it out there and boom someone comes to the rescue.
Click to expand...
It is awesomely great!

I've never done this; but (and you already know about Buts...), I'm going to welcome you the Vampire Club early. Warm and knead her ear, put on a dab of Vaseline, and you will celebrate a tiny bead of blood. And, you will find yourself smiling because, now, you're proactive. Now, Calli will be safe.

And, just think? You didn't even curse!

(Well, not yet...)

Love and continued countless encouraging hugs!
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz...
 
I do like to be pro active and love being the one in control of my furkids health issues. It stresses me out way less to be the one in control than have the vets be in control(just went through that with one of my dogs as she was in the ICU at guelph and I couldnt be there for her -wow talk about stress -I was surgically attached to my phone for 11 days waiting for the update calls !)
I can and have done alot of stuff with my animals that many pet owners would not be able to do or have the knowledge /guts to do so giving needles /sq fluids /getting blood -none of this is any big deal for me. Funny I call the techs at the vets vampires all the time. LOL Now ill be one myself-hey vamps are cool these days right!! LOL
 
Dear Cilla,

We're keeping you.

Love and encouraging hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me not to throw up getting blood... Okay, and who also taught me to not be needle-phobic...
 
Cilla,

You sound like me, no fear and will do anything for their pets. Good for you and glad you were able to get a meter and starter strips. If you haven't tested yet, there are several tips we can offer to help you make the test successful.

1) warm the ear, you can do this by using a warming sock - take any sock you have put 1/4 cup of oatmeal, rice or beans in it. Knot the top. Place in microwave for 15-30 seconds until warm. Then hold behind ear to warm it up.

You can also keep it there when poking (especially if free hand) poking, so you don't poke your finger.

2) when poking, you want to poke the outer ridge of ear, between edge and vein. here is a pic:

sweetspot.jpg


You can poke from the inside of ear or outside, really up to you what works better.

3) if free handing, hold the lancet at a 45 degreeish upward angle and poke that way. You don't want to pierce or go straight on the ear. you may need to poke more than once to get the blood to pool. like this:

101_0669.jpg


4) if you use the lancet device - set it to the deepest setting and you may want to remove the cap for better handling.

5) if you have petroleum gel, put that on the ear before poking, and the blood will pool/bead up on the gel and you can test from there.

let us know how you do and what other help you may need.
 
Thanks Hillary -Just sat down to have my supper and go over the vamp procedure before trying it for the first time ! These are excellent pics and great desciption -wish me luck ! :o)
 
Sucess !!! Her BG reading was 21.4 before her shot . It is down from the 23 it was fri -at least its heading in the right direction ! Is that a good rate of decline ??? And when should I do another reading ? Guess Id better print out a spread sheet !!!
 
blood sugar normally goes up and down all day and night.

we eat -- the food is processed and blood sugar level goes up.
we exercise (assuming normal insulin levels) and the insulin transports the sugar into the muscle for energy -- which is used up and blood sugar goes down
Normally the pancreas produces the insuiln, but if it can't --- then we need to inject some to help out

In diabetics, there is not enough insulin, so the sugar keeps swirling around in the blood stream until it gets to the kidneys and gets peed out. The kitty is hungry all the time, because it's body is screaming for energy -- and the sugar just gets peed away.
 
Calli has decided to eat on her own. The secret ? Tripett ! Canned green tripe . I know my dogs think its crack so I figured lets give it a try . She could be eating more but its nice not to have to shove it in her mouth !
 
Glad to hear that you joined the vampire club. Congrats on successful tests. And happy to hear she is eating. It's a start and that's what matters.

To ensure she is getting enough water, you may want to add extra water to her food. Not sure if it works with tripe - but thought I'd mention it.

Oh and you asked about how often should you test:

Always before each shot. And then if you can get spot checks in during day or night. all information is helpful to see what's going on. I'd say, without going crazy - +2, +5, and +8.. What that means, is + # is the number of hours after shot is given, using a 12 hour clock.

since we are all in different time zones, it's the easiest way for everyone to speak the same language and understand what's going on. Also, it's how the spreadsheets are designed. If you go to the tech page, there is a link to help you set up a google spreadsheet.

And depending on your schedule, you can vary the times of testing and how frequent you test. Also, seeing where the BG's are going will help you decide if you need to test more or less.
 
Dear Cilla, and, of course, you too, sweet Calli,

We're definitely keeping you.

Love and continued encouraging hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz...
 
Great the reading this morning just said "HI " ??WTF I fed and shot but will take another reading in 2-3 hrs . Its a Homemedics Truetrack but I dont have a manual for it-guess I need to go look it up online ? Ive got a little kit put together with supplies so I can easily take stuff out to the grooming shop with me without having to search for things .
 
So read the manual and it says that message is for over 600 ?? She is not comatose but she is abit depressed this am -will keep testing and if this are not right Ill call the vet . Gotta go work now !!!(and watch kitty while I do that !
 
Dear Cilla, and, of course, you too, really sweet Calli,

I remember my first meter "HI" with Giz. I actually said to myself, I don't remember the meter ever greeting me before. Then, it sunk in and I got the message...

The second time it was August and hotter than hell and the power was out. I was testing her by both flashlight and candle light and it said friggin HI. This time I knew it wasn't greeting me. Nope. Had her insulin safely tucked between two yogurts in a little Igloo LunchMate cooler. Shot her and then cooled us both down with a washcloth... Well, technically, I probably said lots of things that are truly unprintable here. I do honestly remember my first word was, Perfect! Why? Because we were in the dark and it was like 5 thousand degrees of heat and humidity and I was scared for Giz. Apparently Perfect seemed the perfect thing to say...

Yet, we amazingly and magically danced for four years!!!!

It's good to be organized and not have to search for things.

I'm keeping you and Calli forever and a day.

Love and continued encouraging hugs for you both,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me to dance with steel-tipped sugar toe shoes...

PS: Maybe you could call or download the manual...
 
It must have indeed been HIGH because 2 hrs post injection it was 21.7 ! I made sure she ate and have shoved food down her throat a couple time this am. I also gave her more sub Q fluids and she seems to be doing okay. Decided to keep her in the house and just check on her cuz the grooming shop might stress her and she doesnt want to pee when out there. I put a call in to the vet about possibly increasing her insuline ?? Will get her feedback before I do anything on my own for now. Gotta get more test strips-down to one - hoping at least one client pays cash today !!! If not ill have to visa . Keto strips-the pham I went to on sunday didnt have them in stock or I would have got them .
 
Calli had a bad evening .The pain from the nuopathy was bad -Her #'s were high so I guess more glucose being deposited in the muscles ? She could hardly stand and was crying so I gave her a light dose of tramadol (was what I had on hand that is cat safe ) so she was pleasantly doped up -poor baby . Had to shove food in her mouth -pre shot # this am was 30.2 . Gave her some fluids because she isnt drinking either - had to help her pee -got a sample and no K's TG .Wondering if I should ask the vet for B12 shots ? Is the injectable more effective ?? Feeling discouraged and stressed about her being in pain -thats hard to take !
 
30.2 is pretty high. I might repeating past questions but did she have a full blood work up?

Another question...you say you've been doing her food at home for years..is it balanced for phosphorous, calcium, taurine, etc.? Just grasping at straws here...

I think that I'd bump the dose up to 1.0 unit now that you are starting to test and considering those numbers...

Jen
 
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