Hi! New here, kitty is prediabetic?

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MarianneG

Member Since 2012
I am SO thankful for this forum!  The other night (2 am) I was packing for a trip and came back into the room and noticed my female rescue kitty of 5 years, Poulet, was practically falling on her left side in the rear while playing with her housemate, Chicken, who is 10 years old and also a rescue. She was not acting like she was in pain, in fact she acted as though she wasn't even falling. *nothing to see here, I'm fine!*. I immediately thought OMG she's had a stroke!! 

History: I adopted her from the Pound in LA.  She was about 3 months old, and weighing 3 pounds, very lethargic. After adoption they held her to have her spayed and vaccinated. After she was spayed she developed a fever and had to be out on fluids, antibiotics and a fever reducer for two weeks before I had ever the chance to take her home. She was 2 1/2 lb at this point. Turned out she had been in a fight and the bites created abscesses. Her fever spiked before each one burst. Long story short and $2,000 later, Poulet came home.

She and Chicken had always eaten Eukanuba dry  (I know, bad, but I did not know at the time) until I started them both on Wellness dry 6 months ago, the Wellness Core dry about 2-3 months ago. Then I started supplementing with Wellness wet and then switched to Wellness Core Indoor dry with supplemental wet.  I had no idea dry was so bad for them, nor did I know that grains were bad for them. Well, since the incident four days ago and a trip to the ER vet at 2:30 am, they are STRICTLY both on Wellness wet with 5-7 carbs per can. She gets a little over one can split up 2 to 3 times a day (approx 220 calories, she is slightly overweight and weighs 15.5 lb). Chicken has always been skinny, weighing in at 7 lb but very small framed. He gets about 120 cals but I'm presently upping the amount.

Poulet is a bit chubby but not considered obese, she was 17 lb at one point so being 15.5 right now is good (exercise!) but she could still stand to lose another half to 1 lb, slowly. She used to consume a considerable amount of water and urinated a lot for as long as I can remember. However the input/output amount seems less since being put on an all wet diet.

Anyway, at the vet they ran her BG (212 mg/dl) and it was really not as high as expected if the left leg is experiencing peripheral neuropathy. An hour after she arrived at the vet she was only limping on it, no longer falling. Not all the way to the hock every time but still apparent. Her potassium was borderline low, 3.5 mmol/L. 

She still scratches with the leg, can still jump on to the bed and sofa with mild wobbliness on the one left leg. The vet feels she may have slight atrophy of the left leg as well.

She doesn't seem to be in pain, the vet sent her home with a pain reliever for the first three days just in case it was a musculoskeletal injury. But I literally walked out of the room for 10 seconds and came back to her flipping on the floor. She seems to either be better in some way, or more than likely has learned to balance and compensate, since I'm sure reversing neuro, if that is what it is, will take quite a while.

I was instructed to have a fructosamine test performed this week. I will not opt for a curve to be performed until after the fructosamine test comes back. She will have her present BG tested on her follow up as well, although I'm sure it will not read true due to stress .

 I didnt know dry food dehydrates cats and causes then to drink more until recently. In fact, the er vet didnt advise anything, I only made changes after my own research. Plus the grains, I'm sure, increased her glucose levels.

We are at a holding pattern until she can get in for the fructosamine test. She does NOT seem distressed or in pain. In fact, she has higher energy. She seemed to be starving all the time before but now not as much as she seems satisfied after her wet meals. 

The vet said he expected her BG to be way higher, but may only be elevated due to her extreme stress for the car ride to the vet at dark thirty in the morning. But still 212 is not 74-159.  

I am wondering if her levels are still not too high if the diet change and methyl b12 will reverse her problem ( which btw is not definitive at this point).  We are still in the diagnosis stage since her numbers are not as high as cats which usually come in with peripheral neuropathy. 

I was going to buy a human glucosameter however it was $75 for 100 test strips,plus the lancet, and meter just to perform a home curve. But think I'm going to wait until the fructosamine test comes back. I hate to bring her to the vet again but I know I have to. They had to anesthetize her to get a blood draw from her neck because she was moving too much and a little pudgy. Ugh, I'd hate to have to do that again.

I'm just so glad it wasn't a saddle thrombus or stroke. Also, she snores. Not sure if that's just because of fluid or anatomy but she didnt do it when she was younger and thinner.  In fact, she "snores" when awake and really, really relaxed, but not when fully alert, playing, etc.

Any feedback is hugely appreciated. I hate not knowing. I'm hoping she will not need insulin. Even if she does, the numbers and the past diet causes me to believe diet correction will correct it, or at the very least lower the amount of insulin she will need, if at all.

The only thing I am truly worried about is that now that she is on strict low carb, and her BG is probably naturally lower, is she at risk for being too low (sans injections) not having the high carb diet she was used to. 
 
The only thing I am truly worried about is that now that she is on strict low carb, and her BG is probably naturally lower, is she at risk for being too low (sans injections) not having the high carb diet she was used to.
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Without insulin, she won't go too low just due to the change in diet. Cats actually have zero need for carbohydrates. They can turn protiens and fats into all the energy they need, so carbs are pretty much useless to them. This is a great site I've bookmarked that does a great job of explaining that.
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
She'd have to have some sort of condition (and I don't even know that one exists) that would be causing her pancreas to produce too much insulin in order to become hypoglycemic all on her own.

That BG number the vet got, while not "normal", sure isn't bad, and much lower than most kitties when first diagnosed. And I would think that diabetes would have to have been going on for some length of time for neuropathy to occur. If they've ruled out physical trauma as the cause of what's going on with her hind leg, it does sound like something nerve related, but neuropathy from diabetes doesn't sound logical, right?

I looked up snoring, and it looks like it could just be a "weight" thing?
When Cat Snoring Is Normal

Like humans, cats experience different levels of sleep. During REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep your cat's brain activity levels are higher. Twitching paws and whiskers or sudden eyelid movement often occur at this stage. When your pet is in non-REM sleep she is in a state of deep relaxation, and is more likely to snore. This is a similar pattern among humans. Certain physical characteristics can make your cat more susceptible to snoring. Overweight cats and breeds with flat faces and short noses are more likely to snore during a cat nap. Such breed-related snoring is often a sign of Brachycephalic Airway Syndrome, a harmless condition affecting mainly Persian, Himalayan and exotic short-haired cats.

When Snoring Is Cause for Concern

In some cases, snoring is more than just a sign of your cat's deep relaxation, it's a sign of illness or other physical problems. Snoring along with nasal discharge, sneezing or sores may indicate congestion due to an upper respiratory infection. Loud snoring coinciding with noisy breathing and coughing while your cat is awake could be signs of a polyp or tumor growing in your pet's nasal passages. Another potential source of your cat's snoring is an allergy to inhalants, food, bacteria or parasites. This condition can trigger a response in her autoimmune system, resulting in constricted nasal passages.

For many cat owners, the initial sound of their pet snoring can be strange and somewhat surprising. While this type of sleep behavior is not widespread among cats, it is generally considered a harmless activity. In some cases, particularly overweight and short-nosed, flat-faced breeds, snoring may become a long-term sleeping behavior. However, if your cat's snoring is accompanied by other unusual physical or behavioral changes, a visit to the vet may be in order.
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http://www.vetinfo.com/cat-snoring-normal.html

On the human meter. Walmart just started selling one called a "Prime" and it is under $10 I think. I just read that the strips are $9 for 50 strips, so there are definitely lower cost options for home testing.

Any feedback is hugely appreciated. I hate not knowing. I'm hoping she will not need insulin. Even if she does, the numbers and the past diet causes me to believe diet correction will correct it, or at the very least lower the amount of insulin she will need, if at all
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You may be very fortunate and have yourself a potential "diet controlled" diabetic kitty. But even if she is positively diagnosed as a diabetic, and ends up needing insulin, you've already greatly improved her condiditon by switching to a low carb wet diet. If she needs insulin, she'll need less than she would have if she was still a dry food eater. And don't feel bad. Pretty safe to say that not very many of us had any idea how bad dry food is for cats. I know I sure didn't have a clue.

Welcome to FDMB!
Carl
 
Welcome! Bob seems to have covered most of your questions and I think you are doing a good job!

One thing I would like to add is getting a meter and start testing, it is the only way you are going to know for sure. While the 212 is not bad it is still not normal and why wait and put her though all that at the vet's again, when you can do at home? It is MUCH easier testing on the ear! You can do this! any problems and we are here to guide you .....

Once you have some numbers, then you will know if the neuropathy is coming from the higher blood glucose #'s. Knowledge is power and this will help you feel more in control if you know if she is diabetic or not. Why put her through another fructosamine test when you can get the numbers yourself at home without putting her out?

Good luck and any questions please ask.
Nancy and Payne
 
I agree with Nancy--testing at home to see if she needs insulin is a much better idea. Stress could certainly raise her BG to 212 at the vet, especially if she's at the higher end of normal because of her few extra lbs (Bandit was ranging about 20-40 points higher than a typical cat when he went off insulin because he was carrying around an extra lb or two). Just remember that a human meter usually runs about 30 pts lower than an animal meter, so the normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120.


Testing at home will be far less expensive than a fructosamine and more revealing. Also, if your cat ends up being a diet controlled diabetic without needing insulin, then you will still want to have a meter on hand to test occasionally. Bandit is diet controlled and I test him once a month or every two weeks or so.
 
What kind of meter kit costs $75???

Relion Micro costs $10 at Walmart, Confirm around $15- and the strips are the cheapest at $36/100 at Walmart and $72/250 if you buy from ADW. Sometimes you can buy strips online through e-bay or on craigslist. There is the newest meter called Prime but it is too new to tell how it goes with felines. you might have to ask for both at the pharmacy counter as some WM have them out and some don't.

Stay away from the meters that have True in the name as they are the generic brand and do not read feline bg's well, neither does the Freestyle Lite.

You will need to purchase lancets in size 26 or 28 for the first box as the higher numbers are the thinner lancets and doesn't leave a very big hole. They cost less than $5/100. I use one lancet a day, syringes you should use only once.
 
Wow! Thank you got the detailed responses! What a wonderful welcome from such a great forum :)

I, too, thought (and was told) 212 wasn't considerably high for a kitty that would be suffering from neuropathy. That's why he just couldn't say, well, you have a sugar cat. It's just a mystery right now but for some reason I'm leaning towards it being such due to the weight, prior diet, etc.

However, I bought the Confirm meter today and lancets (only had 33g, hence the little amount of blood) strips and it doesn't even give me any number, just "low".   I was 112 two hours after a candy bar (lol) but for her, after several sticks, one with warm raw rice in a sock and a hissing and spitting fit, I think I got enough blood for her test. Would have been nice to get more but she really didn't bleed much. Still, low according to the meter is below 20 mg/dL and if the Meter is off 30 pt lower, then she'd be at the most 50, which is still 24 points lower than the lowest in the normal scale.  Perhaps I did not get enough blood. I got a good amount the first time but the strip dislodged in the struggle and it errored, it has to be in first. So that stick was wasted.

So now I'm back to square one. I'm going to try again later on, an hour after she eats. Of course, she'll be torqued again, lol.  She definitely feels it and she didn't even want her treat right away afterwards. I got the cold, furry shoulder for about a minute.

She is still showing weakness in the left leg.  Still on the Wellness diet. I looked for Core wet but Petco stopped carrying it. I looked at all the other high-end foods there and Wellness rated higher on Binky's.  I'll look into the other recommendations. And thank you for the nutrition site! I knew, only after reading this past weekend, that carbs were not at all necessary but I only have Wellness wet on hand or in the stores near me I'll look into better options.

Her water input and urine output are both slightly lower since I  86'ed the dry food.  

Oh one more comment, I read that low potassium can cause nerve damage and she was borderline low when I took her in. I'm just hoping its not kidney failure related. She had that high fever for almost the whole two weeks during her vet stay when she was young.  Hoping that didn't cause damage. 

Basically it looks like another vet trip, but I will try to get another bg reading tonight. 

Thank you all SO much!!
 
Oh one more comment, I read that low potassium can cause nerve damage and she was borderline low when I took her in
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My cat Bob had low potassium for months. I am not sure about the damage to nerves, but I do know that it causes overall muscle weakness. He never showed "neuropathy-like" symptoms (no walking on hocks for example), but he was lazy and lethargic and couldn't climb up on chairs, the sofa, or the bed. He spent three months at least at "floor level". I gave him fluids with added potassium, and that slowly improved it so he got into the low/normal range. His symptoms weren't exactly like Poulet's, but it sure did affect his mobility.

Is she showing any sort of "hypo" symptoms? The "lo" reading may be from not enough blood on the strip. The lowest I ever got on a test was a 42.

Have you watched any youtube vids on testing? Here's a really good one, and you'll see that he recommends two quick pokes in the same place (not exactly the same, but close to each other). I tried that and it worked really well. If you search for "feline diabetes home testing" there's lots of them out there, some made by members of FDMB!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

Carl
 
I would suggest getting larger lancets- 31 is tiny! And gives small holes. Until her capillaries get growing in the ears there will not be a lot of blood unless you hit the vein- then it will look like a murder scene :o

And, rather than trying to catch the blood with the strip off of her ear, scoop it up with a fingernail first and lightly pinch the ear. Then get out the strip and put it in the meter until it asks for the sample. All of the below I have done and rued:
1- if there isn't enough it can read low/error
2- if you put the sample on before it asks it can read error
3- if you dump the blood on the strip rather than letting it 'sip' it can read low/high/error

And the cold shoulder will only last until she gets used to it. Cats don't like anything new and will object just to show they can :lol: .
 
That was a great video, thank you :). Truth is, I thought "how hard can it be?" so I hadn't watched a video until just then. Welllll after that and earlier looking at the sweet spot diagrams on the site, I know that I was doing it far too close to the middle of the ear. Ooops, no wonder she was upset. My mistake.

She was normal, is normal, as far as behavior. Normal energy, appetite, just in general. So I don't think she was too low as far as how cats go. It's either the meter or lack of blood. 1:15 to go before the next test. Crossing fingers!

Thank you all again :)
 
Hmjohnston, I'm laughing still about the protesting, simply because they can. Yes, she's like a teenaged daughter. At least she's not like Chicken, who has a "tick" when he gets irritated. If I verbally scold him he starts rapidly, half-winking one eye as he stares at me, totally irritated with me. So much attitude for a little kitty. And if I give him a very, very light swat on the butt and shoo him away as I say, "don't give me attitude, mister" he meows loudly and then goes and attacks HER! My little Napolean complexed kitty. They act like they have it so bad around here ;)

Thank you for the tips, hopefully the next test is successful. I admit it the blood drop was more swiped than sucked up in the attitude-ridden scuffle.

BTW, the Dear Mom letter from the cat is SO true. I bothered the heck out of her for the first four days. And today is only the fifth day. She's not all the way on her hock but she's wobbly if she does put all her weight on it.
 
I posted an update in the wrong thread.

Poulet had a 47 mg/dL reading last night, 2 hours after her meal. I saw that another lady had readings in the 50's on her ReliOn Confirm. She didn't seem off, or lethargic. So this is good. I hope. No high readings except at the vet. I feel I should test the same meter next to vet's meter to see where I stand on inconsistencies.

I still have to get The Zobaline. It's funny, I now obsess over the cats (more than before). If she sleeps too long, I wake her up to see if she is alright ;). I notice they take a long nap after they both eat and wonder if they did that before when they were on dry free feed and one wet food treat in the AM. The Dear Mom letter hits home! ;)
 
That is a good reading- but REALLY EARLY!!! :shock: :?

Wait- are you even giving insulin at this time- I couldn't find that in the posts? What were her other tests like over the evening? If not she might be broken already just with the diet change... :mrgreen: (If so, when was her shot?)

Human meters run 20-30 points lower than pet meters but 40-50 on ours mean good things if there is no insulin working. (Some good things with insulin but not at +2 after a shot :shock: ) If you want to test the alpha against yours do it with the same drop of blood.

Just remember that she will ALWAYS be a low carb kitty now- no dry- at all- for the rest of her long life. If you do collar tags you can have that on there- DIABETIC- Canned food only!
 
She hasn't had insulin yet, thankfully. She had the ER vet visit because her rear end was spontaneously unstable until after an hour of being at the vet. Then she was just "limpy" when she put weight on it. When he tested her, she was 212 but felt it was possible she was "transient diabetic" so that's why he advised the fructosamine test this week, which she has not yet had.

I bought the meter and supplies as a precaution after considering her urine output and water intake while on dry, the slight weight problem and then the spontaneous neuropathy. I googled the symptoms, watched some videos of cats with neuropathy and found my way here to you wonderful people :) The vet said he could find no signs of injury but prescribed her there days of pain meds just in case, she hasn't shown any signs of pain throughout the whole ordeal though.

He ruled out a saddle thrombus, said a CT (or MRI?) would be needed to determine any slipped discs possibly causing it but first wanted to be sure it wasn't a long standing glucose issue. Truth is, my window is getting smaller to determine if she did have high bg the last 10 days due to time elapsed. The vet advised 3-5 days to wait to see if her leg gets better. But it really hasn't. I accidentally put her down on her left rear leg and it have out and she fell to her butt :(

I'm wondering if I should even bother with the fructosamine because I can test here rather than put her through it, but then I'll never know. Besides, the end result is still the same: wet food forever! Like you said.

My kitties are indoor only; chipped but not collar tagged. I'm just not sure what to do. The only change I did that week was switch to Indoor Wellness Core dry which was higher carb, which I had on hand when I ran out of Wellness Core regular. I did notice her lying down a lot in the kitchen the week before as though the effort was too much, like she does now since she lowsided but attributed it to the heat (it's so much cooler on the tile).

I hate not knowing for sure. And I can't stand to think it was my fault in feeding her dry to begin with. These kitties are the only "kids" I have. Other than my two pet rats lol. (talk about high maintenance, rats take the cake in that category).
 
If you think that there is value in knowing what her BGs have been like over the past 2-3 weeks, then you should have the test done. Home-testing will be of value going forward, so any future BG tests at the vet are pointless, but the test might help to explain what is going on with the back end weakness issue. Or rule out something.

And I can't stand to think it was my fault in feeding her dry to begin with.
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Lots of people, myself included, have felt that way. But all we were was ignorant, and there's no crime or fault in that. We all bought into the hype, heck, it says stuff like "100% nutritionally complete" on the bag, and there's so many custom formulas like "indoor cats", "senior cats", etc, that how can people suspect that the stuff could possibly be bad? It sounds like they are custom made for whatever sort of kitty we have. And it's so much easier to feed dry. They can munch all day long, it doesn't stink up a room, there's basically no clean-up required, and cats seem to LOVE IT! Of course they do. It's junk food! Would a kid rather have a big old bowl of spinach or broccoli, or a heaping portion of pudding, or ice cream?

So, there's no blame for just not knowing any better. If people know dry food is garbage and has long term negative impact on kitty health, but keep feeding it anyway? Yeah, that's an issue and something that places blame on the owner.

Carl
 
Just did another test, it's been a few hours after a meal, 45 mg/dL. Tempted to check the skinny Chicken's bg but I don't want to lose an arm.

It just seems that if Poulet, in fact, has peripheral neuropathy due to bg levels, a simple change in diet couldn't possibly alter her levels this fast and this steady so soon? Well, only one option, the vet. And Zobaline.

Carl, you're so correct. I know it logically but the guilt still hangs there, ugh. Thank you for your kind words :)
 
Hello and welcome to the board! :)

I wanted to 'weigh in' since my kitty Stella had neuropathy and I didn't see that anyone who responded to you said they had actually dealt with that issue. With that said, I am NOT an expert with feline neuropathy...I just have a feline that I nursed to recovery successfully from the condition.

FYI: With nueropathy Stella could no longer jump up and down off of chairs, beds, desks etc. She could only take a few steps and fall to her side to rest. She was having many 'accidents' because she found it difficult to walk to and get inside of the litterbox. It seems to me it may be a sprang and not neuropathy. If you think about humans, when we are overweight it adds a burden to our entire body and as a result some overweight people need the assistance of a walker, a wheelchair or crutches. It seems to me that perhaps your overweight feline may have jumped down from something and twisted the muscles. Too bad you don't know for sure, because in that case I would put it in a splint so the muscles have a chance to heal. From personal experience I twisted my ankle on an airplane during turbulance a year and a half ago and was told my ankle would never be the same. It isn't. With your feline, if it was a twist...it will forever have the problem come and go...especially if it overweight with extra burden.

You may decide to treat your feline as though it does have neuropathy and none of the treatment would be harmful. It sounds like this is the route you are taking and I commend you! Wet food is #1. If you read my signature it states what I was doing to get Stella to recovery. I also gave her (regular) B injections once a week to jumpstart her energy and I did notice it assisted along side of the zobaline. Vitacost also offers a 5000mg version that I took and gave to my kitty...so it did double duty in my household :)

So, if it is nueropathy you have done amazing research and you are on your way. If not...the extra good care and nutrition will assist your feline in shedding the pounds. Whatever the case may be I would like to commend you for doing the research and taking such amazing care of your furry family. Best of luck!
 
Thank you all so much again! So her limp is better, way better and she has been running around. I bought ketone strips and she was negative. I, on the other hand, was 160+ mg/dL ugh, but I'm on a diet (TMI, I know, but the comparison was profoundly different). Her glucose levels are still low and I've stopped testing her because of it. They now don't eat as much wet at one sitting but demand several meals a day (no more than four, just less). They'll actually walk away from it. However, Poulet has decided it must be warned if its been in the fridge. Wonderful.

I cannot thank you all enough. I'm hoping your kitties are well and stable :) I know having a sugar kittie is a huge undertaking, but I also know the love we have for our cats allows us to feel its no trouble at all. Non-cat people are obtuse and insecure if you ask me. They always seem to require accolades that are easily obtained rather than freely gifted after a trusting bond has been made. I don't know, I just think that cats are incredible companions. :) way cooler than dogs!
 
About the food- yes, I can see how they would want to eat less per meal- canned food is denser, even when you add water to it, than dry- dry is air.

Dry food is candy filled air- like popcorn but not as nutritional- and it takes a lot of dry to fill up the cat. But it doesn't last long and the cats go back (think Chinese food :lol: )- they haven't received the nutrition to keep them full.

Canned food, however, is more nutritious and denser and, not being filled with air, fills them up. They still graze through the day but they don't eat (or poop) as much. And adding water- that is still a substance heavier than air. We have a drink with our meal to help aid in digestion and a weight loss trick is to drink a cup of water 15 minutes before eating- for the purpose of filling us up before eating.
 
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