Hi! I'm a Newbie & would like to introduce myself

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donna & sam siam

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My name is Donna. We recently took in a sweet little siamese cat that our neighbor just abandoned. We named him Sam Siam (as in Dr. Seuss "Sam I am". :-) When we first took him in we noticed a very sore paw. We thought something was stuck in it, but to make a long story short, after visits to the vet and MUCH research on internet we found out he has Plasma Cell Pododermititis. Not a great thing to have and may never go away. Cost us BIG bucks to get it under control. Then I noticed he was peeing like crazy, in the cat box constantly. Since my hubby has had Type I Diabetes for 40 yrs I got suspicious of the symptoms. Back to the vet. Yep, diagnosed with Diabetes. Knowing a lot about Diabetes already because of my husband I knew this would be a serious commitment, along with $$. Unfortunately due to complications with his Diabetes my husband is on disability and we are on a very tight income. Now what, I thought?! We had already fallen in love with Sam and I knew it was going to cost money that we don't have. Oh well, not a choice, he needs us so we are going to do the best we can.
 
Oops... must have pushed the wrong button...not finished with the story.
Anyhow, back to the internet for more research. Since we already had the Lantus & syringes, & Lantus seemed to be a good starter choice, I decided to do what I could with what I had. Been testing & giving insulin for almost a week now. Started with 1.5 iu (he is 13 lbs) because I read this amount in a testing protocol. Bg was just not going down so I increased till I was at 3.0 iu. Mistake!! I talked with Lori today and she told me to get on here immediately and get some advice. I will post the details of what has been happening on the Lantus forum that she recommended (if I can find it...new you know!) I guess the biggest mistake I made was only testing him 3x per day. I KNOW better and know that bg can fluctuate a lot during the day, but I have had to use my husbands test strips and he really cannot spare them since he tests several times a day himself. Holy cow, without insurance those things cost a lot!! Lori is going to send me 100 for my husbands old Accu chek meter and so this will help a lot as I can test more often and get a curve on him. (Huge thanks Lori!) Yes, I am stressed like all newbies, but my biggest concern is the money. We just don't have it to spare, and we have already spent several hundred because of his pododermititis issue!! The vet wonders if maybe the antibiotics caused it to flare up. I hadn't noticed him peeing so much in the beginning. In fact, the first night we had him he went 14 hrs without peeing! We will push ahead though and hope to find deals on test strips. We have both an older accu chek advantage meter, and my hubby uses a Breeze II, if anyone knows of more strips we can get cheap.
So that's our story. I want to say thank you ahead of time for any of your helpful advice to see us through this time. It is obvious by reading the posts on this forum that you are all very kind and loving people.
~Donna & Sam Siam
 
Hi Donna and Sam

First off take a deep breath, this does not have to break the bank at all...I have 13 cats of which 2 are diabetic and I know all about money being tight, since we live on my husband's single income as I'm back in college.

First off, other than the insulin your expenses should be fairly low. Because I'm betting your husband already has a glucometer, and the good news is that he and Sam can share that as long as your husband doesn't mind sharing with a cat. The only difference is that while your husband tests his finger, you will be testing Sam's ear, but a human meter is absolutely fine to use for a cat.

Second what insulin did your vet prescribe for Sam? If your husband is using either Lantus or Levermir these again a great insulin for cats and again your husband could probably share with Sam..unless your vet puts Sam on PZI which is an animal only insulin. Both of my diabetics either were/are on Lantus. But a cat takes such a very small dose it really won't tap into that much of your husband's insulin if you should go that way.

Lastly, diet...You aren't going to need the special prescription food...My one guy went into remission eating just good old-fashion Friskies pate-style canned food. But as you already know carbs and diabetes don't mix, and all dry food is way too high in carbs for a diabetic kitty. You want to feed something that is under 10% carbs, and there are many commerical cat foods out there that fit that bill...A lot of us feed Friskies pate-style, 9-lives pate-style or even Wal-Mart's Special kitty on the cheaper side of things. Just want to stay away from anything that says gravy or grilled etc.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
LOL looks like we were typing at the same time.
Lantus is a great insulin...as far as meters go...Walmart has a wonderful little meter that is a whopping $9 and strips are like $30 for 100. The meter is called the Relion Micro and that is what I use for Maxwell since he has been in remission and off insulin for over a year now, the other nice benefit of that meter is I can pick up very small batches of strips so I don't have to have a bunch of strips around when I'm only spot checking him a couple times a month.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Oh man, I just typed a bunch & must have forgotten to push submit. Aaaarrrgh!! Let's see if I can remember. I have Sam on Trader Joe's canned. Found it to be less expensive than high end brands (still way more than I am used to paying). Tried Fancy Feast but can't understand why people say it's cheaper. I pay 59 cents for a 5.5 oz can of TJs & the same for a 3.5 oz can of FF at Walmart. I will definitely look into your suggestions!
Ok, I'll admit it, I put Sam on Lantus myself. Just couldn't see paying another $55 for the vet just to tell me to put him on insulin. After much research I found that Lantus was an insulin of choice for cats, and since we already had it along with the other stuff, I decided to go for it. Hopefully it will work. I'll keep in contact with my vet as to what I am doing. She is very good.
As for his numbers. The first time I tested him he was 475. Gave him 1.5 iu Lantus. I usually test him at about 6 - 6:30 am and the same time in the evening. I also try to test him about 10 pm. Here are his numbers for the past few days. 325 am, 226 (I was so excited!), then 522 at 10 pm. :-( Next day, 402 so increased insulin to 2.0). Later numbers that day were 346 & 356. Next day numbers were 528, (Increased to 2.5 probably not a good idea), 387 & 409. Next day 350, (110 Coudn't believe it!!) & then back up to 324 at 10 pm. Today 425 & 284 so far. Decreased insulin tonight to 1.5. Worried I might have increased too fast. Any suggestions would be very helpful. I'll try to get a curve on him this weekend.
Thanks!
 
Since you are pretty much doing this solo we usually advise a starting dose of either .5 to 1u twice a day..even that 1.5 might still be a little high for him and that could be why you are seeing those really high preshot values. I know Maxwell was 485 when he was diagnoised but never went higher than 1u twice a day before he went off insulin completely.

Since you are home testing you can set up a spreadsheet and plug in the numbers from your testing and just share those with your vet rather than drag Sam in for testing, that will keep her in the loop as well as money in your pocket...Yeah with 13 cats I can't see where Fancy Feast is cheap, plus I refuse to open that many 3 oz cans a day...lol. Nice thing about both Friskies and Special Kitty is that they come in 13 oz cans for right around a $1 per can even with 13 that still is only 6 cans per day that fits our budget much better. If you haven't seen this yet here is the lists that we use when picking food for our diabetics...I just print it out and take it with me to the store when stocking up on kitty food. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html the carbs are in the third column.

BTW I have 3 siamese and a Himalayan...gotta just love those Meezers!

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Hi Donna,
You mentioned that you talked to "Lori" today? Was that Lori as in "newbie kits" Lori? Did you see the stickied thread up towards the top of the page about "Newbie Kits"? If you go there, you can PM Lori and see about getting some strips, another meter, and other "starter supplies". Usually all Lori asks is that you pay for postage, and make a donation if you can but not required... she may have some strips available that will work with the meters you already have.

Carl
 
Hi Donna,
I am guessing that the recommendation for starting dose you read involved the cat's "ideal" weight? Since it's a little difficult to determine what "ideal" weight is for most cats, we recommend starting at no more than 1U of ANY insulin.
Just as for humans, insulin should not be dosed by weight for cats.
Please see the Pet Diabetes wiki for explanation of the Somogyi Rebound effect. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Rebound

This page on what blood glucose levels mean in cats may be helpful also. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_sugar_guidelines

Feline Diabetes is manageable on a tight budget. You are many steps ahead of the game because you understand a lot about diabetes which others who begin this journey don't.

And I agree about Fancy Feast being expensive! But many cats like it and although the "grilled" varieties are not good for diabetes maintenance, get a few cans of those to have on hand. They are at least 18% kcal of carbs and are helpful to raise hypoglycemic BGs so should be part of a "hypo tool kit."

Hope this helps.
 
Just wanted to say welcome and you already are steps ahead on diabetes - good for you and your Sam baby!

Hang in there, this does not have to take lots of $$. Do you have a petsmart around? I found that my girls actually like their brand of Soph. cat. .38 per 5.5oz can and there are different flavors that meet the low carb list from binky.

I purchased the relion meter because the strips are very affordable. My Bean is in remission - diet controlled - since 5/24! So, perhaps this could be you one day? ;-)
 
Hi Donna, I'm so glad to see you posted. I am very concerned about that dose on the low carb food and the former infrequent testing. I hope someone here will help you with that.
I can get a freind to come over to this thread and help you set up a spread sheet.

Carl, I did speak to Donna after she inquired about the strips.
I did'nt advise her on her 3unit bid lantus other than to say,,,,'wow, please post about that on the board, preferably on the lantus board'
Seemed awfully high.

Donna, your strips won't be going out till Monday morning. I'm so sorry but yesterday got unusually busy and I could'nt get to the PO in time. Feel just awful about it cause I have a 'policy' of you order it and I ship it...same day!

Hugs and Best of luck in the sugar dance.
Expect a post or look for a private message from Marjorie and Grace about the spread sheet.

Lori
Newbie Kits
 
Though I'm not an expert with Lantus (Maggie was on Levemir), I also think you started with too high a dose and increased it too fast. In my (uneducated) opinion, you need to back off to .5 or 1 unit and hold that dose for at least 5 days - unless Sam goes too low, of course.

I also wonder if Sam's other condition is causing any pain. Pain and stress can cause bg's to spike. Some meds can also cause increases in bg numbers. These factors may need to considered when figuring out insulin doses.

PS: some people buy strips a lot cheaper on ebay. If you do that you need to pay attention to expiration dates.
 
With Lantus or Levemir, you need to hold a consistent dose for several days unless it is obviously Too High -- it can take up to 7 days for the cat to respond to a new dose.

This is called NDW or new dose wonkiness
 
Hello Donna & Sam,

I was reading this post and saw your comment about the plasma cell pododermatitis. I am wondering how they figured this out. My civvie Ittle Sista is aprox. 6-7 months old. She has been treated for yeast infection in the ears at about 3-4 months old. Then in August, she went to the er with a swollen pad on left front foot, but the er or the regular vet could only guess why it was swollen and she was limping. The er tried to asperate (sp) in 5 different places and could get nothing. The regular vet thought that the other cat could have bitten her and it got infected?? Still do not really know. Now, at the end of November, she has been seen for roden ulcer on her mouth. This time the vet said allergies, and gave her a steroid shot. She will not be getting another one due to the possibilites of diabeties. I am looking for alternative solutions.

I wanted to know how your vet dx the plasma cell pdodermatitis and how they treated??? I have looked and read many articles about this today since reading your post and some of the images look just like Ittle Sista's foot. I am thinking that this is what that was all along? as well as the yeast infection in the ears?? My civvie Slappy has constant ear problems and the vet already said it is probably allergies and has prescribed hydroxyzine for her. I have not given it to her yet as we are/were trying to get healthy from a bout in July of not eating, etc.

Sorry this is not much about your question, but it seems you are educated on the foot issue and thought I would pick your brain.

Thanks for any advice you could give
 
@ Pheobe,
But...do we all agree that in one week the raise from 1.5 to 3u is too much? That it may be wise to go back and start over at 1u? Or am I the only one who thinks that?
Donna had mentioned to me that most days she only got her ps numbers.
Lori
 
Wow! I haven't been on-line all day and I was so surprised by all of the WONDERFUL and VERY HELPFUL advice so far. So, first of all, to all of you who have taken the time to give me such kind help so quickly, THANK YOU SO MUCH! I will definitely look into the food suggestions as those really sound helpful. Lori, NO WORRIES about the strips! You are beyond kind to provide them, so no worries at all. I will just steal my hubby's a few more days. :-)

So here is an update. Today Sam's numbers were much better. Last night and this morning I dropped his dose down to 1.5 (This was before I read your advice to go down even lower). But thankfully Lori scared me enough (in a good way) that I knew I should drop down right away. His bg was 217 at 7:30 am. I was able to get a few more readings in than normal today. Checked him at 9:30 am, was 221. 12:30 was 186. 4:00 was 201. 7:00 was 407. I restrained myself and took everyone's advice to give him 1.0 this evening even though it was high. I will try to get more readings taken tomorrow as well, but plan on staying with that amount for the week as suggested to give his body time to adjust. I will be off work starting Wednesday so will be able to check more often. Yeah! Again, thank you soooo much!!

A question about food. Sam is 13 lb. How often do most of you feed? I know very well that a diabetic needs to eat small amts often, but with working, just isn't possible. I feed him once in the morning about 6:30 or so, then again at about 4:30 when I get home. I'd like to space it out 12 hrs but he wants to eat as soon as he sees me in the morning and is famished when I get home. I usually try to give him a low carb snack about 10 pm. Some leftover chicken, or an egg or something. Any advice would be helpful.

I usually can't get on the computer until evening so don't feel like I'm not responding if you post. I WILL READ THEM ALL VERY CAREFULLY and take all advice seriously. Your experience is invaluable!

~Donna & Sam Siam
 
Donna is your Sam a scarfer? Does he eat everything you put down right away?
My Tom was like that. It is harder when you have a scarfer to give mini meals all day when your not home so you just feed when you can.
On the other paw, If Sam can get his food watered down some to stay fresh and moist thru the day, he can eat it as he wants. I used to always add water to Tom's bowl of canned foods. Mix it up to a little gravy and serve.
Some folks freeze a cube of food and leave it out so it will defrost and be available in a couple of hours.
I never did that, but some cats found that to be a fun hockey puck and bat it around the house :lol:
Lori
 
Ms. Donna,
Have you checked into a timer feeder? Alot of folks use those on this site. I never did. I just leave out a generous helping in the am before I leave for work, watered down and pick up when I get home - approx. 11 hrs later. If any is left, I throw it away and start over - might I say, the minute I walk thru the door - lol.
I offer a serving when I get home, and reup the food when I go to bed. If any is left over when I get up, it goes in the trash and repeat.... usually there is not.
The only problem I have with this is that I have 2 that eat out of the same bowls so I am not for sure how much they are each eating. But if you only have one furry family member, it is easier to do it this way and even with a timer feeder.
Hopefully, this helps!
How is he doing this am????
 
Thanks for the suggestions Ohbell & Lori. Ok, so now I need a pep talk. His bgs were in the 200s yesterday. Gave him 1.0 @7:15 even though it had spiked to 407. At 10 pm it was 381. Tested this morning @ 6:45 & was 455. Gave 1.0. Just tested at 9:15 and spiked to 536. I want to do what everyone is suggesting, and I am going to try and get extra readings today, but I'm concerned since it's so high. Should I stay on track with the 1.0? I guess since I already gave him his morning shot I will just have to hang in there no matter what the readings since he won't get his shot till evening. ??? Thanks for everything!
 
I am thinking you are using lantus right? I was not a lantus user but after reading here daily, I think the protocal is to keep that dose for 3 days, but hang tight cuz you will have other more experienced folks help ya out.... Seeing higher numbers suck tho! :-(
Glad you will be home for curves...
Do you have ketone testing strips on hand? you can usually get those at walmart or any pharmacy. Stick it under pee or in puddle and keep an eye on ketones... pretty easy to do with one furry member in the home.
 
Donna, did you get with Marjorie and Gracie to form a spread sheet?
And did you find the lantus room? I can go find it and put a link up for you. They like for you to arrive with a spread sheet tho so they can see exactly what you are doing at a glance.
I'll be back with a link and hopefully you have talked with Marje.
Lori
Ok, here is the link to the Lantus Room where they know the use of lantus on kitties inside and out.
viewforum.php?f=9
 
Thank you Lori. I really wasn't sure where to post regarding Lantus so this will help. Marjorie got ahold of me about the SS but I probably won't be able to get anything done till this afternoon. It's 10:30 here in WA & will be leaving in about an hour. Won't be back till after 3. I'll try to work it out then. Have to admit though that when I looked over Marjorie's SS it kinda freaked me out. Soooo much info! Hope I can whip up a simpler one, just don't have time to do so much!
 
Donna, Marjorie is a special person....not everyone does what she does believe me!
You can do just a few tests a day and get by.
That is all
Lori
 
Donna

when I looked over Marjorie's SS it kinda freaked me out. Soooo much info!
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol:

The SS itself is VERY simple and Lori is right...you won't need to test as much as we do. Gracie is very young, we are trying to be aggressive with her treatment, she likes to throw us curve balls on her BG, and we manage her curve with food and it helps us to know what we fed her when so we can see the effect it has. Most people don't do all of that so don't be freaked by Gracie's SS. Also...there are two of us managing her FD so it is much easier than if just one person is doing it. You'll get a feel for what you want to put in the Remarks sections, etc.....that part of it is very personalized. Once you get your feet on the ground and feel more comfortable with the whole process (which we will ease you into), then you can later look at other SSs.

It is important to note that many of us on the tight regulation protocol test fairly often but not everyone does or needs to. So take a deep breath and don't worry about any of that now.
 
Ok, I'll stop freaking out! You girls crack me up and I love you already! Update on Sam's numbers. Like I mentioned, I gave him 1.0 this morning. His bg have been as follows: 6:45 am-455, 9:15 am-536, 11:20 am-540, 2:45 pm-570. Kinda thinkin I should go back to 1.5 this evening since they have remained so high all day and yesterday remained mostly in the 200s. Won't do it though till I get another opinion. You guys know so much more about this than I do, but I do know that those numbers are very alarming.
 
Donna please call Marjorie and get that spread sheet up. It is the only way you can get help evaluating. And it won't look anything like Marjorie's ok. It will just have a few numbers on it.
Once you have that sheet you can head over to Lantus Land.
I agree about the dose increase but here we find that .25 at a time packs a lot of punch.
Perhaps you can go up at .25 intervals.
Every 3 or 4 days.
I agree the numbers right now look too high.
It is a marathon, not a sprint. Nothing happens fast. Or it should'nt anyway.
Hugs,
Lori
 
I found the spreadsheet to use. Will contact Marjorie after I get dinner in 1 1/2 hrs or so. Got started trying to set it up but got lost. I'm sure she will be of great help.
 
Can you get it linked to your signature so it's always available to us?
 
Ok, so I got Sam's bg SS up. It's amazing how much I am learning in just a couple of days. A huge thanks to Lori & to Marjorie for spending her time getting me set up and for all of her encouraging words and words of wisdom. As you can see by the SS Sam is in trouble tonight but I am going to wait for his bounce to level out before making changes, and of course getting advice from y'all. I really think his morning shot didn't go in so hopefully I will see his numbers down later tonight. I will post on the Lantus site as well. Learning so much!
 
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