Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long story)

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jeniblue

Member Since 2012
Hi. My name is Jenny and my kitty’s name is Timmy. He is 10 years old and we live in San Francisco, CA. I have just signed up on the message board, but have been lurking about reading posts for a couple of weeks since my baby was diagnosed with high blood sugar.

It has been a terrible roller coaster ride so far. I have gotten a lot of good information here, and have a vet whom I trust, but my little boy is still not doing well. I want to post his story so far, and see if anyone here has suggestions, advice, or observations that may help me get him stable. (Warning: this is long. But, I don’t want to leave anything potentially useful out. So, thanks in advance to whoever takes the time to read this.)

Timmy’s troubles became apparent about 6 months ago with visits to the vet for tummy troubles and an ear problem. He has a possible food allergy, and has had stinky loose poo off and on since I adopted him 9 years ago. This time though it was pretty bad. He visited the vet twice for the ear problem. There were no visible signs of injury, ear wax or infection. We tried a topical antibiotic, but the ear problems kept recurring. He also has feline herpes which flares up periodically. The vet suggested the recurring ear problem could have something to do with the herpes.

He switched to eating Hills Prescription Diet DD (caned mostly with some kibble) about February after the initial vet visit for ear. The food seemed to be great. His poo was normal for the first time in years. The ear troubles came back though, and Timmy began to just not seem “well”. This started in about April or May. He was listless and not his perky self. He was thumping his tail a lot and his posture seemed to be uncomfortable. I also noticed he became obsessed with drinking from the bathtub faucet and was emptying his water bowl two or three times a day.

On a Friday about three weeks ago, I made an appointment at the vet for Monday. His ear was still bothering him and something just wasn’t right. I came home that night from work to find him hunkered down with his right eye glued shut and gunk oozing out of it. My boyfriend and I rushed him to the emergency vet.

The doctor there observed he had ulceration on his eye. He’d probably inadvertently scratched it while trying to scratch his ear, which did have an infection. We received cream for his eye, another cream for his ears, and a cone (What a nightmare that was!) to stop him from scratching. And, oh btw, ... all that extra drinking and fur dander, he probably has diabetes. We should test for that. They did and he had a blood glucose level of 497. They ordered a fructosamine (sp?) test and had the results sent to my regular vet.

That Tuesday we met with my regular vet to go over the results of his blood tests. His sugar levels indeed were elevated for the three weeks previous, as they were that day. (They were again n the high 400’s.) He had also lost two pounds since April. (He is now 12 lbs. A little overweight, but not alarming.) She suggested we start him on a low dose of insulin, observe him and bring him back in two weeks for a glucose curve. She was wonderful, explained everything thoroughly, and demonstrated how to give an insulin shot. She had a cat with diabetes several years ago, and was very patient with questions and advice.

We started the insulin dose, 1 unit of Lantus twice a day, immediately. Within a few days Timmy seemed much better! The doctor suggested that it takes time to get cats regulated and that we might not see any changes for a few weeks, but the change in Timmy was noticeable within a day. This was Tuesday/Wednesday. He was playing like his old self, purring, and drinking much less water, and waking me up at 4 am like always. Until Saturday night.

He was very very very listless. He wasn’t eating much. He seemed waaaaaaay too sleepy. Then in the morning on Sunday he was ok-ish again. Until the evening. He was glassy eyed, non responsive, seemed off balance and seemed to be shivering like he was cold. I wasn’t sure if this was a full blown hypoglycemic episode. It wasn’t exactly what the doctor had described, but it was not right. I ran and got the Karo syrup and some food. Timmy licked the syrup right off my fingers and ate some wet food. He seemed a bit better and got up to eat and drink. I was awake all night watching over him. We took him to the vet the next morning.

They checked his glucose right away. It was around 400. The doctor advised us to skip his insulin dose that night and switch to one dose a day, and schedule a glucose curve for the next week. He was OK for the next week, but still didn’t seem great. He was periodically very sleepy and glassy eyed. He was eating ok, and drinking, and peeing, but not purring, playing, or getting on the couch with me like usual. He also began sleeping in weird places. (I suspect he is tired of being poked, and prodded, and observed constantly, and is trying to find a place to get away.) He isn’t jumping up to his usual hiding spots though. These are low places like under the couch or chairs, or in corners.

He had his glucose curve on Tuesday. We fed him and gave his insulin just before we brought him in. His blood glucose was initially quite high, in the 400’s. It stayed there until almost 5:00 pm when it dropped to around 200. The doctor suggested keeping him on the one dose a day, as we didn’t want him to dip too low and he seemed to be responding to the insulin slowly and late in the day. The next night Wednesday however, he had another hypo like episode. It was much less severe than before. I didn’t rush for the syrup this time, but fed him some junk food Friskies that he likes, which seemed to help. I was awake again all night watching over him.

Thursday morning I called the doctor. She said she is concerned that he may not “truly be diabetic”, and is experiencing a rebound effect from the insulin. Or, is going in and out of remission. She is more concerned with him dropping down too low at night. We are now trying no insulin, close observation, and a glucose check and urine test next week. He is also taking an oral antibiotic, just in case there is some inner ear or stomach infection that could be interfering.

Thursday and Friday Timmy was just fine, but yesterday and today he is acting like he feels crummy again. He is listless and just seems weak. He is tail thumping, and can’t seem to get comfortable. I am at my wits end. I feel so bad for him. I am guessing this is the result of an unstable blood glucose level. But, it could also be the ear infection or tummy troubles from the antibiotic.

I am looking at his diet, and slowly phasing out the kibble entirely, as well as those crappy treats he likes so well. (I was using them to let me give him his shot. That is a whole other story. He HATES having anything done to him, and has been a pain about the whole routine.) I am letting him have a few pill pockets duck version daily for his medicine. I am hesitant to change his wet food right away do to the food allergy issue. I am trying to slowly introduce a different venison canned variety that is higher in protein.

I suppose I should talk to the doctor about a different type of insulin? Could that make any difference? He is on about as low a dose of Lantus as possible. Why would that be making his blood sugar dip so low at night, then jump back up in the morning? Strangely enough, in the morning is when he acts most “normal”. If he is indeed feeling crummy because his blood sugar is high, wouldn’t he be feeling yuck then and not at night? I suspect the right course of action just now is to keep him off the insulin until Friday and proceed as the vet suggested. However, the change in his behavior is noticeable. I am worried about the possible dangers of too high blood sugar as well.

I also know that at some point I need to learn to monitor his blood glucose at home. I am dreading that because of the expense, I am already hustling to figure out how to pay the bills I currently owe. And, as I said he HATES having anything done to him. Medicine, nail trimming, even brushing are a struggle.

Thanks so much for reading this and for being here. I am still scared and struggling with understanding this. It helps to know there are others out there who have survived a similar situation, and me chart a course.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Welcome. Testing at home is a lot less expensive than having a curve done at the vet. Also BGs at the vet are frequently elevated to to vet stress. Also, home testing helps avoid vet vet visits.
Very few cat can get by with one a day dosing.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Hi Jenny and Timmy - welcome!

As you have probably read, we all test our cats at home. We want to know before every shot that they are high enough to give insulin to, and we test midcycle to see how the insulin is working - how low they are going. We know that lots of cats are stressed at the vet, and stress raises glucose levels, so we think our home numbers are more accurate. There is a lot of stress for you in shooting blind, because you have to guess how the cat is feeling, and they are so good at hiding pain and discomfort.

Many people here have been able to test difficult cats, even ferals. The trick is to find a treat he loves and reward him every time. We would be glad to help you in this process.

Once you know his levels, you'll be able to tell if the dose is too high or too low. And you'll immediately see that dosing once daily doesn't work. Cats metabolize insulin faster than dogs or humans. It only lasts 12 hours. So Timmy might be going lower during the 12 hours after the shot and then be high the second 12 hours. It must feel like an awful roller coaster.

If you would like, we'd love to help you start testing at home. That would be a good first step to finding out how he is doing.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

The best thing you can do for Timmy at this point is learn to home-test. Cats can and do go in to remission and I suspect even with the values in his blood glucose that the vet has tested, that Timmy may be headed in that direction since he may be having multiple hypo events. I am surprised the vet did not mention the possibility of remission to you.

There is not that much expense to blood glucose testing. The strips are the most expensive part and if you check Wal-Mart their reli-on brand has the cheapest strips and the meter is good quality.

1U is not as low of dose as possible. You can give it in drops, but you need 3/10cc syringes with half-unit markings. You can check at pharmacies for that particular size. California does not require a prescription for syringes, although you may be asked for one at some pharmacies, according to this chart. http://www.isletsofhope.com/diabetes/state-law/state-prescription-laws.html

Here is the link to show you how to give micro-doses. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=34424#p360982 But you must learn to home-test immediately, not at some point. A severe hypo could mean thousands of $$ in vet bills if you are giving insulin blindly, so it is far more expensive to not test than to test. Would you give insulin to a diabetic child without knowing what their blood glucose is?

As for food allergies, please consider a raw diet. Food allergies could be from many things that are put in to commercial cat food, not necessarily the main protein sources. BTW< the high carbohydrates in that Hill's DD food is probably how Timmy developed diabetes. The first ingredients are plant based and anything in it with "powdered cellulose" is going to be extremely high in carbohydrates. If you have removed this food, that is possibly why Timmy is experiencing his possible low blood glucose.

Timmy's blood glucose is probably roller-coastering from the low BGs. When his BG goes low his body (liver) tries to protect him from hypoglycemia by sending a surge of stored sugar. (Very simple explanation) His pancreas still needs support to maintain proper blood glucose levels, so he really needs to be back on very small amounts of insulin. Just stopping the insulin cold turkey is not going to help and can make things worse. If he stops eating and has any type of infection he could be very prone to ketone development because he is not receiving insulin.

Please get a glucometer, if you need links to watch videos on how to home-test, we can provide them or just search on YouTube. We can help you with the insulin dosing. Most of us here learned to determine how much insulin is needed for our cat from their blood glucose results, just like human diabetics do. If his blood glucose is currently over 200, he needs insulin, just maybe a very small amount.

I know this is a lot to take in, but we have exceptionally experienced members here and even a section devoted to using Lantus for diabetic cats. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9 Lantus is an excellent insulin, please do not consider switching from it.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Try the Relion Prime glucose meter from Walmart. Relion is Walmarts own brand and their glucose meters are accurate and the strips are cheap. The Relion Prime is fairly new and the strips only cost $9 for 50 so its really affordable to do home testing.

Also the Walmart 0.3ml syringes are good as they have half unit markings which work well for smaller cat doses where you may have to do quarter unit increments to find the right dose.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Hi Jenny,
that relion meter is the one so many here are using so if you can afford that one, you should get it right away.
If the price is still making you nervous, look up at the top of this page , there is a picture that says home testing kits.
Click on that. They will send you one just for the price of shipping.
The only thing I don't know about that is they may send you one like I have, my strips are almost 50 cents each.
so don't get an Accu-chek avia.

Here is a link about home testing.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm
Since you are already giving insulin, you really (really) need to start home testing asap.
Every time you give him a shot , it is the same thing as driving with a paper bag on your head. You don't know nailbite_smile
And you've already had a couple of hypo /near hypo events, you have a higher chance of doing it again.
I know its hard to do the testing. We all do. And one by one we teach each other how important it is to do it.
It can save your kitty's life. And from what you've described , he may have used up some of the 9 lives.

You will want to test at least 3 times a day. Before each shot and somewhere in the middle. Kitty's blood sugar drops
to its lowest point there and that's how you judge how well the insulin is working and when to change dose amounts.
After you get the hang of it, you will test more and you can do your own curves and save money. The vets charge a lot
to do a curve and the cat is all stressed out being left there all day.
Testing is how you will know what dosage your cat needs to be on and when it's time to go even lower.
Someone already mentioned the microdosing.
There are people here giving there cats the equivalent of a single drop/ twice a day.
Lantus pretty much has to be twice a day. It only last for 12 hours especially if it's being given one time a day.

Here's a good place to learn about the food issue.
http://www.catinfo.org/
Since you have an allergy issue, the raw food would be good if your cat will eat it.
That website tells you how to make your own.
But be sure to tell us/ask us before you suddenly change the food because if you tried the low carb option, your kitty
could have another hypo, his glucose levels will drop from the food change and you might not even need to give him
insulin. So , please, learn first, ask questions, and get help so your cat doesn't have anymore dangerous reactions.

Since your cat has two infections, that could be the reason why he's jumping up and down, needing insulin one moment and not needing it the next.
So, I am feeling very good about how much help you can get right here from FDMB.
I'm so glad you found this site.
So . Welcome and join us and let's get your cat in a better place.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Lantus is a great insulin for cats, so I would urge you to stick with it a while longer. 1u of insulin is not a low dose for cats; it's the average dose for cats. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need more than 1u of insulin, and many need less than that. Changing the diet can drop blood glucose levels as much as 100-300 points. As others have pointed out, the numbers obtained at your vet are not going to be accurate, and you can't base dosing decisions off them. Remember that cats are very small animals, so they need to be very finely dosed, with changes to the dose made in .25u increments, not whole units. Sometimes they need even finer dosing than that.

A raw diet does help a great deal with allergies, but if you can't do raw, a controlled commercial diet will also do. The most common food allergies are grain, fish, beef, and chicken, so if you feed a low carb Turkey, Venison, Rabbit, or Duck canned food then you shouldn't have any issues. You can also slowly introduce the other protein sources back in afterwards to determine what he's actually allergic to, and that would also give you more food options. EVO, Merricks, Nature's Variety Instinct, and Natural Balance all make low carb foods with novel protein sources.

Lantus has an 84% remission rate in newly diagnosed cats when dosing decisions are made via the tight regulation protocol with home testing. That means you need to test at least 3 times a day--once before each shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin, and at least one mid-cycle check (lowest number of the cycle, the nadir), to determine how the insulin dose is working. This method works--I've had three out of three cats I've personally helped treat go into remission using this method, including my own.

I know you're worried about your cat tolerating the testing, and it may seem impossible to you, but trust me--even fractious cats come around after a week or two as long as you give a low carb treat after every test. Bandit does NOT like things done to him, and he hates being held or restrained, and fought me tooth and nail the first two weeks. I had to wrap him in a blanket and put him in a basket to test him. A few weeks later he not only tolerated it, he came running when he heard the meter beep on. Cats have very few nerve endings in their ears, so once they get used to the testing/treat, they are perfectly fine with it.

Here are some educational materials for you and your vet. I would print out all of these and discuss them with your vet. Here are the American Animal Hospital Association diabetes guidelines, which state that "Home monitoring of BG is ideal and strongly encouraged to obtain the most accurate interpretation of glucose relative to clinical signs. Most owners are able to learn to do this with a little encouragement, and interpretationof glucose results is much easier for the clinician (218)."
http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf.

Here is the Lantus dosing protocol with the 84% remission rate: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf, and some more general information on Lantus that states "When SID [once a day] dosing is desired or demanded, it is important to note that better glycemic control and higher remission rates will be obtained with BID [twice a day] dosing. SID dosing only provides similar control and remission rates to lente BID)." http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link5.pdf

Finally, here is the study that established the high success rate for Lantus, a low carb, canned diet, and adjusting the dose via daily home testing:
 

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Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Welcome Jenny and Timmy!

One thing I wasn't sure of- are you using separate syringes or the pen syringe cap that comes with the lantus pens? That might be why you thought 1u was the lowest the pen could go. We don't use those pen syringes but buy the real syringes instead- Wal-Mart Relion brand is $12/100- make sure you get the ones with 1/2u markings- open the box before you buy them as they are sealed in packs of 10 to make sure they are the correct ones. With them you can even do drops of insulin on a 12/12 schedule.

Doing home testing is not as expensive as relying on the vet to do curves. Just remember that you don't have to buy the expensive alpha track meter from the vet- I believe it is over $100 and the strips cost about $1 each.

Many of us use Relion Micro ($9) or Confirm ($15) , they just came out with the Prime (??)- two weeks ago so we don't know how it goes for cats yet. Bayer and Accu Viva are good as well. Stay away from anything with the name that starts with True as those are bad for cats, so is the Freestyle Lite meter that takes the butterfly strips- both are inaccurate and can lead to trouble and costly vet visits.

The strips... however... those are where the manufacturers get you! Find the cheapest strips that you can afford and find easily to test as often as you want to. Micro/Confirm strips are $36/100 at Wal-Mart. Or, if you can buy in bulk ADW has them $72/250 ($.28 each). All on here usually test 3 times a day, most test more and I test around 7- usually at night. I worked it out that I save $150/month by using Relion Micro and getting the strips at ADW rather than purchasing the alpha track meter.

Also, the Relion strips you can order on-line through ADW- they ship FAST even without expedited shipping or you can buy at the store if you run out before the order comes in the mail. Alpha track strips you can't do that- ordered through the vet office or on-line. other meters you can purchase strips on-line through e-bay or craigslist- but watch the expiration date and carefully read the ratings of the sellers.

Good luck!
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

OMG. Thank you so much. This is a lot of information to sort through. I feel a little overwhelmed, but I am so relieved to have something to really get me oriented. I have an appt with the vet tomorrow, but am trying to get in today. Just waiting to hear from her now. I mentioned home testing, and she said there is a vet tech there that home tests his cats who can give me a demonstration and help me get started. They seem to be under the impression that most people don't want to do this. Not that I WANT to do this, but I just don't see that there is another choice.

The vet did mention the possibility of remission. It could be that Timmy is going in and out of it. I haven't completely changed his food yet, still half and half, but that could be having an effect on his glucose levels. I think that is why she wanted me to stop giving him the insulin altogether. I can see though that he is obviously not ok without it just by his behavior.

In regards to raw diets, I tried that once a few years ago as a friend strongly suggested it and makes her own. Timmy, however, would have none of it. Literally went on hunger strike fo two days. He does however love the fancy feast classic beef feast. I have begun giving it to him 50/50 with the Hills and so far no problems. I am pretty sure it is chicken he has problems with, but not 100% sure.

The syringes I use were given to me at walgreens along with the prescription. The are not blue capped, they are orange and look like the needles my grandfather used. They match exactly the one the vet gave me. She told me to make sure the syringe they gave was identical. I don't know what they are called, but I am giving the smallest amount marked on the needle. I will ask the vet about dosage.

Thank you again for all the information. I have printed out the reference materials for the veterinarian and will read over all the advice again carefully. Is there anything else I should ask about or talk to the vet about? Thank you Thank you again.
 
Re: Hi from Jenny and Timmy (Warning this is a super long st

Hi Jenny and Timmy!

They seem to be under the impression that most people don't want to do this. Not that I WANT to do this, but I just don't see that there is another choice.
My vet recommended (actually insisted on) home testing using a human meter, and even told me to go with the Relion due to the low cost of the strips. However, I have talked to a half dozen local vets since Bob became diabetic who do not advise home testing. Each one of them gave me the same reasoning as your vet. It was their opinion that most people would choose to not home test, and their fear is that people will decide to PTS the cat rather than "go through the trouble" of home testing. I didn't quite know what to say to that, other than to tell them that if they had a client who felt that way, please feel free to share my phone number with them. One person has called me, and she decided to home test instead of "surrendering" her kitty.

Your vet actually prescribed a good logical starting dose for Timmy. What it sounds like is that they just weren't aware that smaller doses will work. Instead of having you shoot once a day, they should have shown you how to draw up .5u of insulin and shot that twice a day. That would most likely have avoided what sounds like hypoglycemic events that Timmy has suffered. There really isn't any insulin that will be as effective when dosed only once a day for cats. They metabolize insulin twice as fast as humans do.

If your syringes have orange caps, then it sounds like they are U100 syringes, which would be the right ones for Lantus. It also sounds like they have only full unit markings and not half unit ones? They are probably U100, .3cc syringes. You can get the same ones, but with the added half-unit marks which will make smaller doses easier for you.

The fancy feast classic beef is a great choice. All of the FF classics are low carb. I think there are at least 8 different flavors, and even if you have to stay away from the chicken ones, you will still have plenty of variety.

Carl
 
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