Hey..so i'm not sure Miel is gonna last much longer....

Status
Not open for further replies.
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
I would ask the vet why is he giving this prognosis and if there's something else besides the CKD stage 2 , because stage 2 is really something they can live with and have a very good quality of life


HCT is the ratio of the volume of red blood cells to the total volume of blood which in his case is a low but not terribly low still in a treatable range if you act soon, so I would also ask the vet why is he saying he has severe anemia

Basically I think you need to ask the vet to clarify the prognosis a bit more
Click to expand...
Ok. Good to know i will ask when i go get the fluids and vitamins. Thank you.
 
I’m not sure why your vet feels Miel is on death’s door because his numbers don’t indicate that. His CKD is early stage 2...in fact, not even to the point were you’d give daily Subq fluids. His phosphorus is at a great level.

I agree with Larry that it looks like he has regenerative anemia which makes me wonder if he’s got a mycoplasma. Does he go outside....ever any issues with ticks or fleas or mosquitos? I’d ask my vet about these things because it doesn’t look like the CKD is causing this anemia but at 21% on his hematocrit, he probably feels pretty bad along with the pancreatitis (see below).

He also needs a potassium supplement but this has to be dosed by the vet. Many use NOW potassium gluconate but, again, you must work with the vet on this and get it precisely dosed and monitored because too high of a potassium level is as bad as too low.

It’s not common to see high magnesium in cats although cats with advanced CKD can have it but his kidney values don’t indicate that at all. I’d definitely question the vet. Do you use any laxatives with him because they can cause high magnesium. I’ve looked at literally hundreds of labs and this is the first high magnesium I’ve seen. You said he is “barely eliminating”. Do you mean peeing because urinary blockages can also cause the magnesium to be high. Fluid therapy can help with high magnesium but it’s important to figure out why it’s high. It would also be best to have his blood pressure checked as magnesium levels can affect the BP.

While CKD cats often have issues with potassium, I wonder more if this is not CKD related since he’s not in a very advanced stage. Insulin can cause the uptake of potassium from the blood into the cells leaving a lower potassium level but it’s not typically that low so I still believe it’s due to something else. The wobbliness is likely attributable to the low potassium. He will feel better if you can talk to the vet about this ASAP.

As soon as I saw his labs, what popped out to me is pancreatitis. He has the symptoms and cats with pancreatitis will feel really bad. You might want to read THIS post on pancreatitis which discusses symptoms and treatments. He would benefit from Subq fluids for pancreatitis and also pain meds like buprenorphine as well as an anti nausea drug such as ondansetron. I’d discuss all of this with my vet after you read the post on pancreatitis.

He also has a bit of protein in his urine which should be addressed at some point. It might or might not be of significance.

If your vet doesn’t respond to treat the above...all of which are treatable...I’d find another vet. From his labs, I just don’t see that he is at the point that he will only live another month but he needs the anemia, potassium, and magnesium and pancreatitis issues addressed immediately with some meds and supportive care.

Many vines and hopes your vet will be more proactive.
 
Last edited:
Marje and Gracie said:
I’m not sure why your vet feels Miel is on death’s door because his numbers don’t indicate that. His CKD is early stage 2...in fact, not even to the point were you’d give daily Subq fluids. His phosphorus is at a great level.

I agree with Larry that it looks like he has regenerative anemia which makes me wonder if he’s got a mycoplasma. Does he go outside....every and any issues with ticks or fleas or mosquitos? I’d ask my vet about these things because it doesn’t look like the CKD is causing this anemia but at 21% on his hematocrit, he probably feels pretty bad along with the pancreatitis (see below).

He also needs a potassium supplement but this has to be dosed by the vet. Many use NOW potassium gluconate but, again, you must work with the vet on this and get it precisely dosed and monitored because too high of a potassium level is as bad as too low.

It’s not common to see high magnesium in cats although cats with advanced CKD can have it but his kidney values don’t indicate that at all. I’d definitely question the vet. Do you use any laxatives with him because they can cause high magnesium. I’ve looked at literally hundreds of labs and this is the first high magnesium I’ve seen. You said he is “barely eliminating”. Do you mean peeing because urinary blockages can also cause the magnesium to be high. Fluid therapy can help. It would also be best to ave his blood pressure checked as magnesium levels can affect the BP.

While CKD cats often have issues with potassium, I wonder more if this is not CKD related since he’s not in a very advanced stage. Insulin cat cause the uptake of potassium from the blood into the cells leaving a lower potassium level but it’s not typically that low so I still believe it’s due to something else. The wobbliness is likely attributable to the low potassium. He will feel better if you can talk to the vet about this ASAP.

As soon as I saw his labs, what popped out to me is pancreatitis. He has the symptoms and they will feel really bad. You might want to read THIS post on pancreatitis which discusses symptoms and treatments. He would benefit from Subq fluids for pancreatitis and also pain meds like buprenorphine as well as an anti nausea drug such as ondansetron. I’d discuss all of this with my vet after you read the post on pancreatitis.

He also has a bit of protein in his urine which should be addressed at some point. It might or might not be of significance.

If your vet doesn’t respond to treat the above...all of which are treatable...I’d find another vet. From his labs, I just don’t see that he is at the point that he will only live another month but he needs the anemia, potassium, and magnesium and pancreatitis issues addressed immediately with some meds and supportive care.

Many vines and hopes your vet will be more proactive.
Click to expand...
Ok ...that is a lot..i will try to answer..no laxatives. He has a hard time pooping tho. Can you summarize the mycoplasma.i am having a hard time understanding it all with the stress..yes fleas of course. What do i do about it? He was severly dehydrated i dont know why. Like i said i am getting all that stuff from the vet, but this so goddamn overwhelming and so much stuff tied in with also giving insulin, it makes me feel like im gonna go insane and do not have the strength to manage all this. He only leaves his box to eat and pee. Thanks.
 
mirnta said:
Ok ...that is a lot..i will try to answer..no laxatives. He has a hard time pooping tho. Can you summarize the mycoplasma.i am having a hard time understanding it all with the stress..yes fleas of course. What do i do about it? He was severly dehydrated i dont know why. Like i said i am getting all that stuff from the vet, but this so goddamn overwhelming and so much stuff tied in with also giving insulin, it makes me feel like im gonna go insane and do not have the strength to manage all this. He only leaves his box to eat and pee. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I would imagine the lethargy is the anemia. That really needs to be addressed immediately.

Mycoplasma...also referred to as Hemoplasmas...are parasites transmitted by fleas, ticks, mosquitos. They can cause feline infectious anemia which is usually treated with an antibiotic like doxycycline and also possibly a blood transfusion.

The CKD and pancreatitis can cause dehydration. Subq fluids on a temporary basis can help him feel better. I’d be surprised at a vet that wouldn’t have given him Subq fluids while he was there.
 
My simple understanding is it is a bacteria problem given from an infected flea or tick. It can be treated with anti-biotics .
Anemia, lethargy, lack of appetite are among the symptoms.

Pancreatitis can be treated with fluids and pain relief.

You are not going to go bonkers @mirnta . We shan't allow it & you can lean on all of us no matter what.

Are you able to use another vet at all? .
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I would imagine the lethargy is the anemia. That really needs to be addressed immediately.

Mycoplasma...also referred to as Hemoplasmas...are parasites transmitted by fleas, ticks, mosquitos. They can cause feline infectious anemia which is usually treated with an antibiotic like doxycycline and also possibly a blood transfusion.

The CKD and pancreatitis can cause dehydration. Subq fluids on a temporary basis can help him feel better. I’d be surprised at a vet that wouldn’t have given him Subq fluids while he was there.
Click to expand...
ok. Thanks.
Is there a test for mycoplasma or should i just mention it? Will antibiotics wreck his lil body when he's already so sick?
 
PussCatPrince - GA said:
My simple understanding is it is a bacteria problem given from an infected flea or tick. It can be treated with anti-biotics .
Anemia, lethargy, lack of appetite are among the symptoms.

Pancreatitis can be treated with fluids and pain relief.

You are not going to go bonkers @mirnta . We shan't allow it & you can lean on all of us no matter what.

Are you able to use another vet at all? .
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it cuz i am falling apart....he has been my vet for ten years but if he doesnt wanna help, i can...
 
mirnta said:
ok. Thanks.
Is there a test for mycoplasma or should i just mention it? Will antibiotics wreck his lil body when he's already so sick?
Click to expand...
Yes, the lab that did his blood tests, Antech, has a PCR test for it.

ECID when it comes to antibiotics but if that’s what he needs to feel better, isn’t it worth a try? Some cats tolerate them well; some have issues but can take them anyway.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Yes, the lab that did his blood tests, Antech, has a PCR test for it.

ECID when it comes to antibiotics but if that’s what he needs to feel better, isn’t it worth a try? Some cats tolerate them well; some have issues but can take them anyway.
Click to expand...
Ok i will ask for it. He doesnt handle them well...he pukes and gets the runs pretty badly..
 
mirnta said:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it cuz i am falling apart....he has been my vet for ten years but if he doesnt wanna help, i can...
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised. I would be too & worse. This was often me -----> images.jpg You feel free to be this way too anytime you like.

Have another chat with your vet. If he has been with you guys for ten years he should know you enough to give a little breathing space with this & offer some further guidance whatever that might be.

Marje and others have offered some good sound help and suggestions here.

Perhaps write down what you wish to ask or suggest. I always had to do that in case my voice & reason failed me . Hopefully he will be open to taking a good long look & be helpful to you & Miel. Wonderful name and avatar by the way.

I know Miel is not at all comfy right now and this is a dreadful thing for you to see and feel for him. It hurts more than anything. I suppose it's about making sure of all your options for you both. Then when all corners have been checked and all avenues looked at - then you make a decision on what you will do for Miel.

I'm in New Zealand and it is now nearly 7pm just so you know I haven't just written this and bogged off.
 
If you've never done subQ fluids or syringe feeding before, things that seem like an act of desperation and/or awful for a cat, it doesn't have to be that way.
Many people here have done subQ so you'll get lots of good advive and I'm sure there must be a lot of Y-Tube videos.
Syringe feeding does not have to be "force" feeding. It takes patience and although this is not scientific it requires love and maybe even a leap of faith.
That's another thing we can all help you with.
One very quick story. Noah's brother Andrew was very ill when we brought him home. Being locked up at the vet was too much trauma. Our vet had faith in us that we could syringe feed him and get his meds into him and we did. His nickname was Bright Eyes, those eyes came back and he lived many years after that.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the double post.
Physical pain and appetite never go well together. Noah had rotten teeth that could not be pulled and he detested oral BUPE so I used a transdermal BUPE on him for years. It made his life more than just tolerable.
In Canada this stuff comes from a compounding pharmacy and has a short shelf life.
 
JanetNJ said:
Here's the info about the anemia.

http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm

At an hct of 21 it's on the boarder of being ALMOST severe. Under 20 it needs to be treated with aranesp. Right now you can give b12 and possibly iron. If they suspect pancreatitis the treatment is sub q fluids (the 80 bun suggests your cat could be dehydrated... Probably from eating and drinking less lately), bupe for pain, and something for nausea such as cerenia.

Potassium supplements are needed as well.

I think if these things are addressed you'll see your cat perk up.

There's a great group on Facebook called Cats with Chronic Renal Failure that may be helpful.
Click to expand...
That info is fine for anemia caused by CKD but that’s not what is going on here with Miel. His lab tests indicate his anemia is regenerative, not non regenerative which is what you see with CKD. B12 is not likely to help and ESAs like Aranesp aren’t given for this type of anemia.
 
Noah & me (GA) said:
If you've never done subQ fluids or syringe feeding before, things that seem like an act of desperation and/or awful for a cat, it doesn't have to be that way.
Many people here have done subQ so you'll get lots of good advive and I'm sure there must be a lot of Y-Tube videos.
Syringe feeding does not have to be "force" feeding. It takes patience and although this is not scientific it requires love and maybe even a leap of faith.
That's another thing we can all help you with.
Click to expand...
We did this VIDEO showing how to give Subq fluids at home specifically for FDMB members but it’s posted on YouTube and has been very, very popular.

How is Miel today?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
That info is fine for anemia caused by CKD but that’s not what is going on here with Miel. His lab tests indicate his anemia is regenerative, not non regenerative which is what you see with CKD. B12 is not likely to help and ESAs like Aranesp aren’t given for this type of anemia.
Click to expand...
Ok I'll delete
 
Noah & me (GA) said:
If you've never done subQ fluids or syringe feeding before, things that seem like an act of desperation and/or awful for a cat, it doesn't have to be that way.
Many people here have done subQ so you'll get lots of good advive and I'm sure there must be a lot of Y-Tube videos.
Syringe feeding does not have to be "force" feeding. It takes patience and although this is not scientific it requires love and maybe even a leap of faith.
That's another thing we can all help you with.
One very quick story. Noah's brother Andrew was very ill when we brought him home. Being locked up at the vet was too much trauma. Our vet had faith in us that we could syringe feed him and get his meds into him and we did. His nickname was Bright Eyes, those eyes came back and he lived many years after that.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that info!
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Regenerative anemia is cause either by internal bleeding or that the red blood cells are dying before the mature or that they are dying prematurely like from mycoplasma. Is the stool black? If so that could be due to an internal bleed in the upper GI tract and the blood is black since it is digested.
Click to expand...
Internal bleeding from what? It does appear to be darker.....?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
That info is fine for anemia caused by CKD but that’s not what is going on here with Miel. His lab tests indicate his anemia is regenerative, not non regenerative which is what you see with CKD. B12 is not likely to help and ESAs like Aranesp aren’t given for this type of anemia.
Click to expand...
What does regenerative mean? He is ok today..he is eating tons of wet food which is awesome. And he seems a little more alert and walking around some. Still very wobbly tho...i am in the process of moving so this is all really stressful.
 
When you're so sick even your hair hurts no one wants to even hear the word food.
If he's eating that is fantastic. I've had the odd cat that thought moving and car rides were great fun but it's more likely he feels a bit stressed. Have a little talk with him, "Miel, you know you're coming with momma and that I love you right?" :bighug:
 
mirnta said:
Internal bleeding from what? It does appear to be darker.....?
Click to expand...
Any kind of GI insult and it’s typically not just dark but black like tar. And that kind of consistency as well.

mirnta said:
What does regenerative mean? He is ok today..he is eating tons of wet food which is awesome. And he seems a little more alert and walking around some. Still very wobbly tho...i am in the process of moving so this is all really stressful.
Click to expand...
It means he’s still capable of making new red blood cells as opposed to non regenerative anemia like you see in more advanced CKD where they are not able to make new blood cells.

Have you spoken with the vet?
 
mirnta said:
Thank you. He is hanging in there. Seems more alert today which is promising and he is eating wet food!! Hooray!
Click to expand...

I am so flippin' well pleased to hear from you. :bighug: & I am mighty happy to read he is eating.

I agree. Moving is stressful .

If you have a moment do try and speak with your vet & clear up a few things. No-one here wants you to feel despair like that. Especially if there is something that cold be helped and fixed. It could be the infected bite thing and therefore treatable anemia so a bit of treatment would see Miel tickety boo.

Did you do the fluids and stuff that the vet gave you? Did he give you pain meds too ? Don't mean to ask a trillion questions. Just that you're one of us and he's one of the boys.

Anyway. Please do keep popping in to let us know how everything is.
 
Hello everyone thank you for writing. He *seems* to be doing much better. He scarfs down wet good now. Maybe part of the problem was he just didnt wanna eat his old food anymore? My vet is willing to proceed anyway i would like. Since moving was a nightmare i havent gotten the fluids and vits yet but soon. He is much more active, and stands more. Still wobbly. I feel pretty positive cuz he seemed to be at death's door and now at he alert and moving more. Vet soon. Thanks for all your advice.
 
mirnta said:
Hello everyone thank you for writing. He *seems* to be doing much better. He scarfs down wet good now. Maybe part of the problem was he just didnt wanna eat his old food anymore? My vet is willing to proceed anyway i would like. Since moving was a nightmare i havent gotten the fluids and vits yet but soon. He is much more active, and stands more. Still wobbly. I feel pretty positive cuz he seemed to be at death's door and now at he alert and moving more. Vet soon. Thanks for all your advice.
Click to expand...

Your vet sounds good @mirnta .

Try and get the fluids pronto as these are quite important. Maybe join that in with a vet visit too as it will help the vet to see Miel as he is now . You can then go through again where things stand with Miel & what your options are.

So pleased to read that ATM he is feeling better enough to move around and eat. Add a little water to his food to help hydration a little bit.
 
Hi everyone....sorry i didnt update sooner..i moved and it was all waaay too overwhelming for me i had to take a break.
Ok! I have learned to give fluids at home! Scary but cool. He is also on vitamins. He is doing so well it's amazing. He went from never leaving his box and falling over every time he walked to: he walks all the time, rarely loses balance, goes outside, grooms more, but not enough, eats like a CHAMP, i have a new loft bed and he climbs the stairs with relative ease. He has gained over a pound! He is almost back to normal. I have learned to bathe him, another scary thing i conquered!! The only issue right now is he is creating too much pee and cant hold it in all the time, and leaks. :( sucks..i have reduced fluids some. Will have check up in a couple weeks. According to my vet he should be dead in two weeks!! That is not gonna happen. I'm really proud at what ive accomplished. There is hope. Thank you everyone for helping me.
 
mirnta said:
Hi everyone....sorry i didnt update sooner..i moved and it was all waaay too overwhelming for me i had to take a break.
Ok! I have learned to give fluids at home! Scary but cool. He is also on vitamins. He is doing so well it's amazing. He went from never leaving his box and falling over every time he walked to: he walks all the time, rarely loses balance, goes outside, grooms more, but not enough, eats like a CHAMP, i have a new loft bed and he climbs the stairs with relative ease. He has gained over a pound! He is almost back to normal. I have learned to bathe him, another scary thing i conquered!! The only issue right now is he is creating too much pee and cant hold it in all the time, and leaks. :( sucks..i have reduced fluids some. Will have check up in a couple weeks. According to my vet he should be dead in two weeks!! That is not gonna happen. I'm really proud at what ive accomplished. There is hope. Thank you everyone for helping me.
Click to expand...
Fantastic there is such an improvement!!!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top