JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
It doesn't go down and stay down 12 hours. it's a curve. it is at it lowest usually around 5-7 hours after the shot and then will usually climb back up.
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He's going to die,
- Thread starter Queed
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Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
Please stick with us. We can get you and your kitty feeling better. There's so much to learn about treating feline diabetes and it takes time to get there. I suggest you read some of this about ProZinc to get a better understanding:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.165103/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/
Yes, ProZinc is a longer acting "in and out" insulin but its duration can vary from kitty to kitty and even within the same kitty dose to dose. The typical BG profile after a dose, if plotted on a graph, would give a smile-shaped curve. The BG would be higher at the start before the insulin kicks in (generally around 2 hours after injecting - but that's variable), drop slowly to its lowest level called the nadir (usually - but not always - in the 5 to 7 hour range post injection) and gradually rise to a level similar to where it started once the shot has worn off. This is called the "duration" and it can vary from 10 to 12 hours or longer. You can see that I've said "generally" and "usually" and "variable" a lot. Insulin is a hormone involved in many processes and the kitty's response can - and will - be different dose to dose. Some cats (the exceptions I'd say) are very consistent and moderate in their response. Most are variable and will work hard at keeping you guessing.
We can help you learn more so take a deep breath and start to read those guidelines slowly. Ask a ton of questions.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.165103/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/
Yes, ProZinc is a longer acting "in and out" insulin but its duration can vary from kitty to kitty and even within the same kitty dose to dose. The typical BG profile after a dose, if plotted on a graph, would give a smile-shaped curve. The BG would be higher at the start before the insulin kicks in (generally around 2 hours after injecting - but that's variable), drop slowly to its lowest level called the nadir (usually - but not always - in the 5 to 7 hour range post injection) and gradually rise to a level similar to where it started once the shot has worn off. This is called the "duration" and it can vary from 10 to 12 hours or longer. You can see that I've said "generally" and "usually" and "variable" a lot. Insulin is a hormone involved in many processes and the kitty's response can - and will - be different dose to dose. Some cats (the exceptions I'd say) are very consistent and moderate in their response. Most are variable and will work hard at keeping you guessing.
We can help you learn more so take a deep breath and start to read those guidelines slowly. Ask a ton of questions.
Sharon14
Member Since 2015
The 600+ number you saw this AM may have been a bounce which means his bg dropped a bit lower than he’s used to so his liver released glucose to bring it back up. The only way we can tell if this is happening is for you to get some midcycle tests when you can,and plot them on the spreadsheet. I know with working that can be difficult, but do you think you can get some extra tests at night and curves on the weekends? Also, when you get a chance, read the links Kris gave you. They explain how the insulin works and how we determine dosage.
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Member Since 2011
Anette, insulin is a hormone normally produced by the body - it is NOT a chemical medicine like a pain killer or app. stimulant. Giving 4 units isn't going to drive it down like taking 4 aspirin instead of 1. If kitty doesn't NEED 4 units, it's hurts NOT HELPS.
Queed
Member Since 2018
He was diagnosed June 6, we have been on 3 insulin’s, we have worked our way from .5 to 4 units over this 4 month period with no results, when I have skipped just to see what happens it goes to 500 or 409 , that’s why I was trying one unit , I thought it was working, I only did it for 2 shots, and he was 430 , 3.5 hours after one unit and food last night until this morning, back over 600.
Queed
Member Since 2018
I had read somewhere that you can miss their happy place , since by the time we were switching to prozic we were up to 2 units, that’s why I just tried 1unit yesterday
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
Here's my suggestions:
1. Get our spreadsheet up and going. Here are the Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet
2. Add the information like you see in our "signatures" (the stuff that shows up under our comments) like: Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems or meds? and a general location. Add the link to your spreadsheet too. This keeps us from having to ask the same questions over and over or scrolling back through the entire thread trying to find details.
3. Try giving 3U every 12 hours for several days and get as many tests as you can in....Always get Pre-Shot tests and then (if at all possible) get at least 1 mid-cycle test on the AM cycle (like 5-7 hours after the shot) and on the PM cycle, get at least a "before bed" test....if you work during the day and can't get mid-cycle tests on the AM cycle, try to get at least 2-3 tests on the PM cycle. Do a full curve on a day off (test every 2 hours for 12 hours)
While it's true that too much insulin can look like not enough, we don't want to drop all the way back to 1U now.....If 3U proves to be too much, we'll be able to tell within a few days if you get those tests in.
If you need help setting up the spreadsheet, let me know. I can do it for you in about 30 seconds once I have some information. Just click on my sign on name and choose "Start Conversation" to send me a private message.
Just my opinion....how about changing your user name? While we all agree Diabetes Sucks, let's go for something more positive! You're in the right place now and I'm sure we'll be able to help you figure things out and get your "extra sweet" kitty as healthy as possible! (and we'd still like to see your kitty! We know they can look pretty "rough" at first, but they're still beautiful in our eyes)
1. Get our spreadsheet up and going. Here are the Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet
2. Add the information like you see in our "signatures" (the stuff that shows up under our comments) like: Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems or meds? and a general location. Add the link to your spreadsheet too. This keeps us from having to ask the same questions over and over or scrolling back through the entire thread trying to find details.
3. Try giving 3U every 12 hours for several days and get as many tests as you can in....Always get Pre-Shot tests and then (if at all possible) get at least 1 mid-cycle test on the AM cycle (like 5-7 hours after the shot) and on the PM cycle, get at least a "before bed" test....if you work during the day and can't get mid-cycle tests on the AM cycle, try to get at least 2-3 tests on the PM cycle. Do a full curve on a day off (test every 2 hours for 12 hours)
While it's true that too much insulin can look like not enough, we don't want to drop all the way back to 1U now.....If 3U proves to be too much, we'll be able to tell within a few days if you get those tests in.
If you need help setting up the spreadsheet, let me know. I can do it for you in about 30 seconds once I have some information. Just click on my sign on name and choose "Start Conversation" to send me a private message.
Just my opinion....how about changing your user name? While we all agree Diabetes Sucks, let's go for something more positive! You're in the right place now and I'm sure we'll be able to help you figure things out and get your "extra sweet" kitty as healthy as possible! (and we'd still like to see your kitty! We know they can look pretty "rough" at first, but they're still beautiful in our eyes)
Rachel
Member Since 2013
Annette, I promise that we can help you! Please take a look at what everyone has said and let us know what you think! We can help you figure things out if you work with us.
If you'd like, feel free to come visit in the Prozinc forum too. There are plenty of people who use the same insulin you do and it might help you to see some of their stories and how their kitties are doing. I know when I first started, seeing other people who were using the same insulin and seeing how their cats were doing helped me learn a lot about how to manage things and made me feel hopeful and like I could do this! The link is here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/ . Just reading through some of the information at the top and seeing what others are doing might help you feel better too.
If you'd like, feel free to come visit in the Prozinc forum too. There are plenty of people who use the same insulin you do and it might help you to see some of their stories and how their kitties are doing. I know when I first started, seeing other people who were using the same insulin and seeing how their cats were doing helped me learn a lot about how to manage things and made me feel hopeful and like I could do this! The link is here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/ . Just reading through some of the information at the top and seeing what others are doing might help you feel better too.
Jeff D / Sketch
Member Since 2017
First sorry for what you are going through it is always difficult when our fury friends are not doing great. Second there are a ton of knowledgeable people here to help with dosing questions etc.
The Fancy Feast pate should be great...maybe you can pick up a few cans at the store to get him started until the Chewy order arrives? Anything lower in carbs may help somewhat.
I might additionally recommend giving him sub Q fluids at home to help with hydration and make him feel a bit better. It is easy to do and can really help the kidney issues out as well as help with the absorbing the insulin into the system. If you haven't already you can contact your vet and they can set you up initially and get you started.
Queed
Member Since 2018
Yes ! Thank you, I give him 100cc every other day.
He's over 600 this morning and tonight, that's as high as the meter goes.
Queed
Member Since 2018
Yes she did it for me ! I can see it, I got the sheets app, but nothing from google yet , I think I need to get google to? This is all making my head spin, I was just temporarily locked out, every time I come on it's like I have forgotten my password! I just need to sleep I think. I did pick up a b-12 for him today.
Sharon14
Member Since 2015
Awww Queed, we’ll help your mom get you back in shape! He sure has a sweet face Annette! If it’s asking for your password every time you log on, be sure to click the ‘stay logged in’ As for the spreadsheet, Chris can answer that question. I had to have someone do it for me!
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
You don't necessarily have to get the email from Google.....as long as you can open the spreadsheet and sign into Google, you should be able to make entries.
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
I love his long whiskers!!!
Queed
Member Since 2018
He is just wasting away we have been trying to get below 600 since June 6
He is sooo sweet, wants to be in your lap all the time or following like a dog, has never started a fight or had fear of dogs, just always rubbing on everyone
That saddle look he’s got is because I shaved his hair in June to make sure I wasn’t missing. The vet thought that was why it wasn’t working but I’ve got 9 rescue cats buried, from 16 to 21 years old all died of (put down) at the end stage of kidney failure, two from cancer and on of heart disease. And all I treated for as long as they were able to eat and get around, so shots were no problem for me, I did miss ( go through) once but I knew it. I’m glad his hair is growing back. And he likes baths, thank goodness because he was very greasy about 2 months ago.Attachments
PussCatPrince - GA
Member Since 2017
Aw. He's a lovely fella. Such a handsome face. 
Phoebes (GA)
Member Since 2017
Him stretching on your leg tugs at my heart strings. What a sweet face. I'm partial to tabbies! sending you healing vines. Chin scritches for your sweet guy. 
those are for you
sending you healing vines. Chin scritches for your sweet guy. those are for you
Queed
Member Since 2018
He wants me to pick him up and hold him all the time. He’s such a babyHim stretching on your leg tugs at my heart strings. What a sweet face. I'm partial to tabbies!
Jeff D / Sketch
Member Since 2017
He wants me to pick him up and hold him all the time. He’s such a baby
He's a cute guy...Stay positive! I believe animals are very perceptive as to what their humans are feeling. Instead of thinking he is going to pass away...think we are going to get you dialed in and then you will start gaining your weight and strength back! He needs to know you are secure that you can help him. Cats have incredible spirit and will to survive let him know you feel the same.
Queed
Member Since 2018
Thank you, it’s been 4 months, I’m just so frustrated about it. He sat in the shed with me while I made his concrete grave marker, I was crying, and then I got mad and took him to a different vet right then , on a Sunday at emergency prices, just for another opinion, I have definitely had my weak moments these past 2 weeks, I’m afraid organs could be damaged by now. It’s my first cat to ever have diabetes, I never knew it was so difficult to get under control.
Jeff D / Sketch
Member Since 2017
Please get rid of that grave marker...thats just negative karma!!! If things reach that point there will be time to do that...plus him seeing you upset is disturbing. Lets get this turned around. People diabetics can also have a hard time getting under control.You had said he is also an out door cat...could he be sourcing some other cats high carb food in your neighborhood??? Someone that may be free feeding there cats or dogs dry food???
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
See if your vet can give you some ad recovery perscription food. It's high in calories. Literally let your cat eat as much as it wants. Poor thing needs weight.
While 3-4 units might seem like a lot, to you, honestly he needs what she needs. My cat needs about 8 units at the moment. It'S just how it is.
How much does she weigh? 100 ml may be too much of hes under 10 lbs.
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
Can you set up a signature with basic info? It would help us not have to ask the same questions repeatedly.
Click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed, age, insulin type, food you're feeding, meter you use, and any other health concerns and medications. Then save.
Click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed, age, insulin type, food you're feeding, meter you use, and any other health concerns and medications. Then save.
Queed
Member Since 2018
Oh no! He doesn’t roam. He’s in an enclosed area, fenced with his own 10x12 insulated building, furnishings, electricity, and heat. He can stay in or go into the fenced in yard when he wants, he has a buddy out there with him. We have coyotes bad around here, so they cannot run free.
Queed
Member Since 2018
Annette, he looks so sweet
I am sooo unfamiliar with computers, I was up till 1 am and filled out his entire labs on a Copy of the spread sheet
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
I think what you have to do is copy the URL (web address) from the top of the page when your spreadsheet is open then go to your signature and paste that URL into your signature text box. To do that go to your name in the upper right of the FDMB page, click on it and select signature in the drop down menu. Paste that URL into the text box, click save and that should do it.
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
good job getting the signature up. Now go back in and put the url address of the spreadsheet
The weight management food is not only too high in carb, but intended for cats that are trying to lose weight. When are you switching to fancy feast? When you do, please feed as much as he wants. One can if the food he's getting now may not be enough calories for him to put weight back on. Plus unregulated cats sometimes need more food because their bodies can not properly utilize the nutrients in the food so they can be starving even though they are eating.
Queed
Member Since 2018
View attachment 39453
I’m am feeling like a COMPLETE idiot right now, I have been trying for hours to figure out how to share the labs with you all, his BG was over 600 at 7 am now at 10:30 am he is 382 ! We are on a 4 hour drive, my boyfriend said he will try to figure it out when we get to the hotel, he said maybe it cannot be done from and iPhone and I think I accidentally deleted his real file, but I still have the copy with all his labs on it.
It says link sharing is on
I’m am feeling like a COMPLETE idiot right now, I have been trying for hours to figure out how to share the labs with you all, his BG was over 600 at 7 am now at 10:30 am he is 382 ! We are on a 4 hour drive, my boyfriend said he will try to figure it out when we get to the hotel, he said maybe it cannot be done from and iPhone and I think I accidentally deleted his real file, but I still have the copy with all his labs on it.
JanetNJ
Member Since 2016
Good that you turned link sharing on, but you have to put the link to the file in the signature. Like do you see in my signature I have a link that says CC'S spreadsheet? So when someone clicks on that link they see her spreadsheet. We need you to put the link in your signature so we can see it. Does that make sense? Yes you can do it with your phone.... That's what I usually use. In your spreadsheet click the three dots in the upper right. Then choose share and export... Then copy link.
Come back to fdmb and go into your signature. Then paste the link and save.
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JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
Poor kitty needs food! As much as he can eat.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
I put in my two cents over on your ProZinc forum thread.
PussCatPrince - GA
Member Since 2017
You've done a fab job getting your signature and spreadsheet up and running. I can see all the details and the lab.
Well done you.
Well done you.
Queed
Member Since 2018
Thank you ! I’m soo sorry about your Prince. . It never ever gets any easier. I have buried so many and it’s always devastating for me. Qweed is gobbling up this Fancy Feast like he has been starving since June on the prescription diet, and I guess he has been. This morning his BG is 412 ! Do you think I should stick with 4 units? I haven’t given him any yet,You've done a fab job getting your signature and spreadsheet up and running. I can see all the details and the lab.
Well done you.
Kris & Teasel
Member Since 2016
I answered on your ProZinc thread.
Veronica & Babu-chiri
Member Since 2016
Hi, I'm glad it appears that he's starting to react to the insulin and you are seeing some low numbers that is very good news!
Have you started switching the food (maybe you already mentioned it but I didn't saw it sorry if I missed it)?
I've just took a look at the labs you added to the SS, when you have some time could you please also update the reference range to the ones the lab your vet used has, just to make sure we are looking at them correctly, thanks in advance
And looking at his kidney values I think you will have to start considering looking after his kidneys (his creatinine is a bit high ) specially you should start thinking about lowering his phosphorus, vet and the lab will probably tell you phosphorus it is in normal range and it is but is a little bit higher than you would like it to be to protect his kidneys so try to start looking at Dr. Lisa's list (http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf) and find some food (comercial not prescription ) that is low carb (under 10% in this list) and low phosphorus (under 250 if you can get under 200 is even better)
Also he would also benefit if you can give him some B complex supplement specially B12
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