Here we go again

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by George and Bert, Sep 17, 2020.

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  1. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Greetings and good wishes to all. Over the past 25 years that I have had cats, this is number three sugar cat newly diagnosed this evening after I had some strong suspicions this week. Meet my boy, Artemus, a small for his breed, Norwegian Forrest Cat. I have always had multiple cats in the house and at the moment down to seven. It has been years since I have had to treat since my other two went into remission and never looked back. I have used all types of insulin, but the one I favor is Lantus. At one time you could get it in pens, but as I remember they changed the dose and can no longer be used for cats. The vet suggested Vetsulin. We did not discuss price, but online it is about 1/5th the price of Lantus. Are there any new dry foods? I have never been able to get this one to eat canned or any wet. I rely heavily on diet. Since this boy will be tough to shoot I hope to find some magic elixirs.I am awfully rusty on this. Artemus' number was 400 at the vet office. If I used Vetsulin any suggested starting dose. This is assuming he will let me stick a needle in him. He is a fighter when he sense things and at 77 I am no longer sharp of eye and quick of hand. Thank you all, I look forward to your sage advice.
     
  2. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Welcome back, sorry for the circumstances haha.

    Don't use Vetsulin, especially since you already prefer Lantus. Vetsulin barely gets 3-5 hours of duration.
    They sell Lantus in pens still, most of us buy from Marks Marine Pharmacy out of Canada, they're cheaper there. It's cheaper than Vetsulin in the long run as well.
    If your vet needs convincing there's the 2018 AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats that lists Lantus as the preferred insulin of choice for cats. Vetsulin only for dogs.
    Low-carb dry - there's Dr Elsey's and Young Again. And I think EVO? They're expensive though.

    Wish you well with Artemus, sounds like he's going to be a handful!
     
  3. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Lantus is a better insulin for cats than Vetsulin. You still can use the pens, you would use them like miniature vials by using a syringe instead of the pen needles. By doing this you can get smaller dose changes such as 1/2 unit.

    There are a couple low carb dry foods. However I will let the other members tell you their names. My cats have not had dry food for years and I don't want to give the wrong names.
     
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  4. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    my boy was given vetsulin and I am embarrassed to say I considered PTS he was so miserable-he was depressed wouldn't move around just sad all the time and I thought if this is a cat with diabetes what are we doing wrong!
    Enter lantus! a new everything and I was elated:smuggrin: 6 years later my boy is 21 :cat:
    My boy was back!
    Dry foods that are low in carb are Nulo---Dr Elsey chicken under 5% and salmon under 10% --also young again
    fancy feast classics are all low wet food and cost friendly:bighug:
     
  5. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    Thank you all for the reply. Much appreciated.
    I have had two on insulin over the years and both on Lantus.
    At the time (Last one was two years ago) I was considering Levimir (sp), but he went Hypo and came out OTJ for good. My first sugar cat, Bert, also went OTJ. I was using pens the last time, but heard they doubled the strength and were unusable.
    EVO was a blessing for stubborn dry foodies. But the company selling out to P&G set the path to the product's end. I have ordered some YA (thanks for the reminder) I totally forgot I used it when EVO went away. Also order some Wysong Epigen starch free ( they claim almost zero carbs.) Considering Dr. Elsey's "Clean Protein" at 4%. Of course, I am working this little stubborn boy toward wet by mixing it with his favorite kibble.
    Since i am positive this diabetes is caused by a Depo shot, I believe the proper diet will cure him. Thanks again. Bert in photo. I wish I would have thought to put a black bow tie on him for the photo.
     
  6. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Oh my that would have looked dashing!
     
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  7. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    He is a handsome boy!
     
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  8. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Good to know about EVO. I never had to use the low-carb dry so wasn't sure. Good luck switching him over - I've got a pair of youngins that I'm trying to switch to wet and they'd rather go hungry than eat wet. :rolleyes: Luckily they're not diabetic. Hopefully a diet change is all he needs!

    Bert's a cutie - big fan of tuxedos! :D
     
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  9. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Oh, that sounds so familiar, Jayla. Here are some excerpts from Saoirse's journal:

    While being treated with Caninsulin:

    "Lethargic, grumpy, withdrawn (often on floor behind curtain) during periods of Caninsulin peak action. Tries to hide in most inaccessible place she can find after pre-dose feeds and looks to be avoiding the injection which she knows comes next. Protests and tries to wriggle away when I am trying to give her the injection. Really doesn't like the insulin therapy. Mood/sociability markedly better when insulin dose wearing off: it's like having two different cats."

    Following suspension of Caninsulin treatment (but still in need of insulin):

    "AM +5 reading is +77 since last Caninsulin dose. Marked difference in sociability and mood since BG lower **without ** Caninsulin - no peak-action lethargy, low mood or withdrawal. Happy throughout whole day instead of the 2-3 hours prior to next dose being administered. Caninsulin helped BG but Saoirse was fairly miserable for about 16 hours a day. (No wonder she kept trying to hide when her next dose was due!) I think diet change has done more to help Saoirse than this particular insulin: it's too harsh on her system."
    Some cats get on just fine with Caninsulin/Vetsulin but Saoirse wasn't one of them. Like you, Jayla, for a time I was considering the best thing to do for her. When she was initially diagnosed I was so relieved that there was insulin available for cats. I'd found FDMB so I had learned that diabetic cats can do really well and I had hope. Then I saw how my beloved girl was on Caninsulin, and I thought to myself that if this was how her life was going to be from then on, then it was no life at all and I'd sooner let her go than see her so wretched and ill every single day. :(

    Thankfully...

    After day 2 on Lantus:

    "Overall mood & bearing better than on Caninsulin. Interested in surroundings. Purring more, 'balletic' grooming. Relaxed sleep with dreaming instead of looking wiped out."
    Lantus gave Saoirse her life back. (((Saoirse))) My heartfelt thanks to whoever created it, and to FDMB for telling me it existed.


    Mogs
    .
     
  10. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    Thank you so much, Bert has a way about him. He never complained about a test or a shot and seemed to like vet visits..found them interesting. I have a whole lot of stories about Bert, but they don't belong on this forum. But I must write this as encouragement. At eight years old Bert got Eosinophilic Granuloma ( Itchy bumps). My first time to a vet and I had to get a Dog vet. He gave Bert a too strong Depo shot. Three days later I rushed him back to a different vet, a Cat vet. He said Bert would most likely not make it due to Ketoacidosis with severely high numbers. Bert was motionless and unresponsive in the cage they put him in which was in the back part of the hospital. They let me sit there with him several times a day. I would softly pet him and talk to him rubbing food and water on his mouth. He was getting some meds and fluids sub Q, but they thought it was over for him so they didn't do much. By the end of the second day I could detect some purring and by the third he was eating and drinking what I hand fed him. By the fifth day the vet asked if I were willing to give him daily injections. I knew nothing about how to do it, but I said of course..yes! Then I found the original FDMB and learned how to give the shots and tests. As I remember that was around 2007. All our kitties are precious.
     
  11. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Fantastic! You may share any stories here OR on the Community forum. it says no cat health posts but stories are fine.
     
  12. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    The vet gave me a hard time last night because I would not accept Vetsulin. They don't like me very much because I do a ton of research prior to going for the visit. They don't like that I balk at the treatment selection and I choose to guide the event. If I trusted them, I would most likely follow their course of action, but I don't. As an example, I waited for the call regarding the blood tests and expected a possible diagnose of diabetes, but hoped I was wrong. After I rejected the Vetsulin I asked him to write a scrip for Lantus. You might think he was paying for it. But here is why the distrust... I asked if Arty had Pancreatitis. He replied he didn't test for that! Am I right for being critical about that? Go ahead, I can take criticism. I would rather be wrong and corrected than wrong and sticking to it so I can be wrong many more times. :)
     
  13. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Does your vet know this is your third diabetic kitty? It's not like you dont know what to expect.:rolleyes:

    I'm not sure if a regular blood panel show every illness. When it comes to pancreatitis I have no clue.
    The bottom line is you are paying THEM They work FOR you.

    I dont know why Vets have to have power trips with every customer. I was lucky but everyday I read here someone being dismissed. :mad:
    j
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  14. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I'm sure you must know about getting the Lantus at Marks Marine in Canada
    Just in case you don't I'll post it below
     
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  15. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Many members buy it from Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada.
    This will save you a lot of money. Try to get the U-100 syringes with half unit markings, we increase and decrease by 0.25 units.
    These 5 solorstar pens will last you a year depending on the dose you will give
    The expiration date is on them , keep in the fridge and they will be good until you start to use them probably has an expiration date of 2022 or 2023 Lantus Solostar CARTRIDGE 5x3ml per box (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100iu/ml 15 ml $159.99 USD



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Lantus Solostar PEN CAN (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) *single pen open box* Brand 100iu/ml one pen 3 ml $49.99 USD
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Lantus Solostar PENS 5x3ml per box (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 15 ml $164.99 USD
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Lantus VIAL Insulin (10ml per vial) (temp. gauge. ice pack, express-air mail) Brand 100u/ml 10 ml $110.99 USD
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Pancreatitis probably isn't tested unless kitty is lerhargic/not eating, and even then you might have to poke them with a stick to get them to check. I know my vet didn't bother, even when I specifically asked so I had to go elsewhere. Your mileage may vary though.
     
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  17. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Your vet should be grateful they have a client with experience and care. Sigh, guess they don't like people having the know-how.
     
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  18. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    You might want to change your signature stating it's Artemus now .
    Do you plan on setting up a spreadsheet for him?
     
  19. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
      • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
      • Add any other text, such as
      • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
      • DX: Date
      • Name of Insulin
      • Name of your meter
      • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
      • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
      • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
      • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
      • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
      • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
    Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.


    tap on your avatar where it says your name ,then hit profile page ,tap on that ,then go up to the very top, upper right hand side and tap on your name ,it will bring down a drop box, tap on signature, the signature will be under settings, tap on the signature then and you can start to add what I posted above, make sure you hit save ,
     
  20. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
  21. Gill & Mac (UK)

    Gill & Mac (UK) Member

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    Aug 19, 2020
    What a lovely story - just shows how your devotion and determination saved a beautiful kitty ! Truly inspiring
    Arty is so lucky to be with you & so are your other kitties - did you say 6 more ? what a lovely furry purry household that must be.
    Gill
     
  22. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    I think he is coming around. He got me a discount for Lantus. I told him I had two cats go OTJ on Lantus. Then he asked me what type syringes I wanted. :)
    I think he was surprised with my confidence for a cure. As compared to what it's like for a new patient. Don't ever want to go through those doubts and fears again. After a while you sense you can handle most things or get help on here. It's rarely easy, but most of the time, manageable. Vets tend to treat the illness and not the cat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
    Reason for edit: hit the button by accident.
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  23. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Sorry if this was offensive:(
     
  24. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    Thank you. The issue with me is I'm on the New Jersey Coast and MM is on the opposite coast. Too long in transit.
     
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  25. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    Thank you, Gill. A house of Love and Peace for sure. Except when Butter feels things are too boring. Then, he makes his presence felt by chasing all the others around the house. After an hour of robust exercise they all retire to their favorite spots. I love his spirit and would never want to change it. Just a gfew years ago he was a Feral beating up on all the cats in the area including a 25 pound black cat who he put in the hospital. Andy and Butter have been inside with me for two years now. You could not get them to go outside. Andy looks like a small Bear.
     
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  26. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    No, of course not. Not an issue. I appreciate your and other's comments.
     
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  27. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
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  28. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    Thanks, I'll try. Not really literate about posting. I don;t even knbow if I am doing this right. I seem to be answering the wrong posts. lol
     
  29. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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    Aug 5, 2013
    A general comment: First, I want to thank all of you for posting here. You all are so kind.
    On Tuxedos, there used to be so many around and now you hardly see them here where I live on the New Jersey coastline.
    Also, is anyone using Basaglar in lieu of Lantus brand. According to my druggist it is $150 less a vile and pens are $250. i'm waaiting tosee what you all have to say prior to purchasing one of them.
     
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  30. Sandi & Whisper

    Sandi & Whisper Well-Known Member

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  31. George and Bert

    George and Bert Member

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