Henry diagnosed - 3ml or 10ml vial of lantus

Karrie and Henry

Karrie and Henry

Member Since 2020
I'm an old member and mom to angel Maverick. Henry was diagnosed today and his BG is 24. I will be doing the lantus protocol (most likely tight regulation). I can get a 3ml syringe from the vet for 45$ or a 10ml from the pharmacy for $85. Can you guys let me know if I should get one or the other?

I will be coming back to speed on all things related to feline diabetes, but between meetings today and running to get supplies, I won't be able to do this until late tonight - I will create a profile and a spreadsheet. Henry is in bad shape. Thank you.

Henry
11yrs, short hair
 
Sorry to hear about Henry's dx. Where are you located? $45 for a single syringe sounds expensive, but vets usually do mark up their prices in my experience. If you can pick up insulin at your pharmacy, I'd ask if they sell pen refills, ie just a pack of cartridges, or a pack of pens. Those usually come in a package of 5 (5 x3mL), and for most of us are the best deal because you will be able to use each 3mL cartridge (or pen) to the last drop. The cartridge refills are less expensive than the pens.

THe 10mL vial, which I have used, is good stored in the fridge for about six months once you've opened it. You'll likely have leftovers by the end of six months that will have to be tossed. But it still sounds like a better deal than the single pen from the vet. Of course, this ultimately depends on Henry's dose and whether he goes OTJ or not.

If you have time, I'd shop around. Costco, Walmart for example tend to have better prices. I'm in Canada and have bought from https://diabetesexpress.ca/
 
Thank you so much. I am in Canada (Ottawa) also and will check out that web site. It will be expensive to get started, with his BG so high I have to get everything right away. I will add the website to my favourites and read tonight and this weekend. I'm going to go with the 10ml vial. Thank you!
 
What are you feeding Henry? Was a diet change to low carb diet attempted to see if his diabetes can be controlled without insulin?
(I presume that since this is not your rodeo, it was? :) )
 
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Thank you for your replies. I posted a brief history on the health forum. I don't believe there is time to try a food adjustment. The vet thought his problem was neurological or arthritis - previous blood word said that kidney and BG level was fine. I found a lump in the muscle on his back leg and worried it was cancer. Brought him back and the vet said arthritis was the reason why he was walking on his on the haunches of one leg. Yesterday, I noticed he kind of smelled and looked between his legs and it turns out he has been leaking urine and his groin area has urine burn and the area is a bit swollen and red. He is walking completely on his haunches with difficulty. We did more blood work and he said he is diabetic with a BG of 24. I don't know what triggered it, the cartrophen injection two months ago maybe? He went downhill within a week of that injection. He went from one bad leg to walking all the way on his hocks and he had a body tremor for weeks. I didn't take him back for a second shot.

He is 100% kibble and I will do my best to switch him to wet food. With Maverick it took months. I am going to try and switch him right away to a lower carb kibble - he's on a seniors formula. But we are in Canada with few options - I'm looking at Go! solutions carnivore chicken, turkey and duck -I am calling the company when they open in a half hour for the carb level which I've read is around 16%. And I'm going to work very hard at converting him to wet food. He has always drank and peed a ton - the blood work has always been normal.

If you guys believe I should wait before administering any insulin, please let me know.

Karrie and Henry
 
Linking your post in the Health forum here:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/old-member-new-cat-henry-bad-shape.247344/

I am sorry he is so badly off. Did the vet test for ketones?

Did the vet not think that walking on his haunches could be neuropathy? Was he tested in March for diabetes? Was he ever treated with steroids?

There are low carb kibble options but not all of them are available in Canada:
Young Again Zero Mature
Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein
Epigen 90
 
Thank you I posted first in the health thread.
The vet ruled out diabetes on the second visit - he didn't test or redo blood work that I recall. He may have done a hand reading.

I immediately thought diabetes in October which is why I brought him in. He was just walking on the hock of one leg at the time - the one that I felt a lump on in March. The difference from March to now is night and day. One week after that cartrophen he was having trouble with both legs.

Never treated with steroids. He has been on antibiotics for an upper respiratory infection he just won't clear. This started last February. I will update the health thread with this info. He's had three courses of azethromycin (spelling).

Thank you for the food recommendations. I'll try and find them.

Karrie and Henry
 
You don't need to post on both threads. Just here is fine.
I have linked this thread to the one in Heath/Main :)

The upper respiratory infection can also cause increased BG numbers.

I would try to switch him to a lower carb kibble first and then start insulin. Only if there are no ketones in the picture. You could check the latest bloodwork to see if he was tested for ketones. If not, you could buy ketone testing urine strips and test for them at home.
 
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Thanks again. I hadn't thought of ketone strips and will add that to my pharmacy order.
I won't give him insulin for now, just test. I'll also test for ketones.
He won't eat wet food and fingers crossed he will eat Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein. I have a two pound bag ordered for curb side pickup. It's the only one I could find locally. Thank you for the suggestions.

With Maverick back in 2010, I had to go to five vets to find one that would support me testing from home and I finally had to beg a vet to read the protocol and she agreed. This time around the vet said that he knew the vet personally that was involved with the Queensland protocol and fully supports it. I am working from home for at least another 3.5-4 months. I don't know what the latest is on this and will be spending the weekend reading stickied posts and linked information.

Thank you. I am so glad this board is still around and helping so many people.
 
KellyKelly said:
He won't eat wet food and fingers crossed he will eat Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein. I have a two pound bag ordered for curb side pickup. It's the only one I could find locally. Thank you for the suggestions.
Click to expand...
Dr. Elsey's chicken flavour is less than 5% carbs. The others are around 9%.

You can buy Young Again here, but it's much more expensive in Canada than in the US:
https://jlcm-enterprises.myshopify.com/

One more thing to add to the pharmacy order would be methycobalamin B12 (not cyanocobalamin). That may help with his walking on his hocks if it indeed neuropathy.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/
 
Hello and welcome from BC.
KellyKelly said:
I don't know what triggered it, the cartrophen injection two months ago maybe?
Click to expand...
No, not that. Neko was on regular cartrophen for her arthritis and it didn't impact her BG. I had a civvie on cartrophen that I tested periodically (on prednisolone) and it didn't impact him either.

If Henry won't eat the low carb dry food, some people have had success with air dried (Ziwipeak) or freeze dried raw which has some crunch.
 
A couple of deep breaths! You can do this. Not a great deal has changed since you managed Maverick's FD. The Aviva meter is fine.

This post will help you to get everything set up -- signature, spreadsheet, etc.
 
Thank you for all of your help. Should I start a new thread in the Health forum since it was advised not to give him any Lantus?

Do you have any advice for me on when and how often to test Henry so you guys will have the data to know whether he needs insulin? These numbers may not be in anyway meaningful as I don't know when they were taken in relation to eating. The vet appointment was 5pm Thursday and blood was drawn. Results provided on Friday was 24. I home tested him at 4pm yesterday and he was 20.5. After a full night and most of today with only low carb kibble (Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein Chicken recipe), I tested him at 6pm today and he was at 13.5.

Henry has food available 24x7. I will have to set up a camera in the spare room to find out his eating patterns. The food is shared between him and my other cat Victoria (14yr old). I could for example, close the room up for two hours (or what ever is recommended) at the same time every day to get a reading.

I have the ketones test strips but am still trying to get a urine sample.

I have my signature and spreadsheet set up, which I guess isn't needed until/if he starts on insulin. I noted asymptomatic heart enlargement. It was found when I hired a mobile groomer about five years ago and they noted Henry's tongue turned blue before they even started to work on him. Back in March they were going to do xrays of his hips to help diagnose his walking on his haunches and I asked for one of his heart also. They only managed to do the heart one because he was getting too stressed. It showed enlargement but no other symptoms.
 
Wow! That is quite an improvement in numbers. It might take a few days for the numbers to fully reflect the food change. So I would give it a week on the Dr. Elsey's and get a couple of tests every day - different times on different days.

I don't see anything on your SS yet. Just pick a time you would give insulin at (if and when you start) say 7am or 8am etc and use that as the AMPS time and enter your test results based on that. Did I make sense?

Also, rather than free feed, you may want to get him used to structured meal timings so if you have to start him on Lantus, he gets used to the idea of eating more in the first half of the cycle and not eating 2 hours before his shots.

Here are Tips to catch and test a urine sample
 
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