Help

Status
Not open for further replies.
MacFang Mom

MacFang Mom

Member
This site is new to me. My kitty was diagnosed with diabetes Sept 2023. We started his insulin but he was still eating a lot. The vet advised me on just giving doses without checking his bloodwork or changing his diet. His blood glucose was 338 and he was urinating a lot. He is 12 years old and weighed 18 lbs. and now weighs 16.4 lbs. He is a big cat, not a fat cat but he has definitely slimmed down. However, I started testing his blood sugar after the vet had me increase his insulin to 2 doses of 8 units each of Glargine morning and evening. I felt like 8 units just did not seem right, so I started testing just since 7/5/2024. The vet does not seem like he knows what he is talking about. He had me start giving my cat, food mixed with green beans as well and I was going through 1 can a day because it is low carb. He just seems to get worse and worse. Today he is still eating and peeing but very very lethargic and doesn't climb on anything anymore. I told the vet his numbers were up in the 500s and he said, okay, we should bring the dose all the way down to 6 units in the morning and evening. That did not help. I am now giving him 7 units in the morning and evening with numbers in the 400s. I stopped giving him the green beans as of Sunday and finally he is in the 300s. I am at my wits end right now and feel so uninformed and just following the vets advice but I doubt he knows what he is doing. Help
 
MacFang Mom said:
This site is new to me. My kitty was diagnosed with diabetes Sept 2023. We started his insulin but he was still eating a lot. The vet advised me on just giving doses without checking his bloodwork or changing his diet. His blood glucose was 338 and he was urinating a lot. He is 12 years old and weighed 18 lbs. and now weighs 16.4 lbs. He is a big cat, not a fat cat but he has definitely slimmed down. However, I started testing his blood sugar after the vet had me increase his insulin to 2 doses of 8 units each of Glargine morning and evening. I felt like 8 units just did not seem right, so I started testing just since 7/5/2024. The vet does not seem like he knows what he is talking about. He had me start giving my cat, food mixed with green beans as well and I was going through 1 can a day because it is low carb. He just seems to get worse and worse. Today he is still eating and peeing but very very lethargic and doesn't climb on anything anymore. I told the vet his numbers were up in the 500s and he said, okay, we should bring the dose all the way down to 6 units in the morning and evening. That did not help. I am now giving him 7 units in the morning and evening with numbers in the 400s. I stopped giving him the green beans as of Sunday and finally he is in the 300s. I am at my wits end right now and feel so uninformed and just following the vets advice but I doubt he knows what he is doing. Help
Click to expand...

I am sorry you are going thru this and you are right, most Vets have no idea how to treat a cat with diabetes, there are I am sending you a link on many brand food you can choose from the third column of the chart are the %'s of low carb foods, they should be between 0-10% carbs, your decision of home testing was a very wise one, it is very important to test before each dose also in order to help you here's is information for you below; we are here for you and in no time you will see your cat flourish, read a lot, and trust the expert member is this forum, no concern is a small concern I will also tag other members to help you with dosing and about the insulin you are giving :bighug::cat::cat:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/


https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
FOOD CHART CHECK CARBS/ FF
 
Last edited:
Hi and welcome to the forum.
8 units is a large dose of insulin to give a kitty.
I have some questions for you :)
  • Was your kitty diagnosed a year ago?
  • How was the insulin dose increased?
  • How often are you testing the blood glucose?
  • Are you using a pet or a human glucose meter?
  • What food are you feeding him now?
  • Are you testing for ketones in the urine? If not, could you go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy today and test the urine for ketones please? I am concerned about the lethargy. It could be from the blood glucose dropping to low or from ketones.
  • Are you testing before every dose of insulin and during the cycle? It’s important for us to see how low the dose is taking your kitty. It is possible he is dropping low during the cycle and then bouncing back up again.
  • Do you have more blood glucose data you could share with us.? I am going to ask @Bandit's Mom if she could set up a spreadsheet for you today so we can get to the bottom of what is happening.
Continue to make sure he eats well. This is important:)
Bron
 
  • Was your kitty diagnosed a year ago? Yes
  • How was the insulin dose increased? after a week or so, the vet said to increase based on his peeing, drinking, and eating habits.
  • How often are you testing the blood glucose? today I've already tested him 6 times.
  • Are you using a pet or a human glucose meter? pet meter. VQ Pet tester
  • What food are you feeding him now? Fancy feast in the morning and whenever he is begging (vet said to feed him) and dry Purina Dietetic management on an automatic feeder just for during the night with a tsp or thereabouts every 2/3 hours after 11pm.
  • Are you testing for ketones in the urine? If not, could you go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy today and test the urine for ketones please? I am concerned about the lethargy. It could be from the blood glucose dropping to low or from ketones. His blood glucose measures in the high numbers. I just saw your message now, I'll have to go out tomorrow to see if a pharmacy has this. I found a link in the post above about his lethargy possibly be because of needing Vitamin B12. I've ordered that on Amazon, can't find it locally. He has a temperature today. After I posted my question, Fang started panting and felt warm, so I cooled him down with wet papertowels, he slept and seemed less anxious and breathing is better. He is in front of a fan now.
  • Are you testing before every dose of insulin and during the cycle? It’s important for us to see how low the dose is taking your kitty. It is possible he is dropping low during the cycle and then bouncing back up again. Today's numbers at 7:48am he was 389 / 21.589, I gave him food 1/2 of 3 oz. can and 7 units glargine. 9:49am he was 392 / 21.7557 - he ate other 1/2 of 3 oz can. 11:28am he was really weak but ate another 1/2 of 3 oz. can. 12:17pm, his blood glucose shows 327 and he felt warm, cooled him off. 5pm his blood glucose was 417 / 23.1432 and 7:11pm it was 409 / 22.699 and administered 7 units with 3 oz. can of food. he was hungry after just a half can.
  • Do you have more blood glucose data you could share with us.? I am going to ask @@Bandit's Mom if she could set up a spreadsheet for you today so we can get to the bottom of what is happening. I have been writing this down on sheets of paper but need to transfer the data to a spreadsheet.
 
I see you have managed to set up the Spreadsheet. That’s great.
We will need to see several days of blood glucose (BG) data to form an opinion about what is going on.
Yes please get the Ketostix tomorrow and test Fang’s urine.
How do you know he has a temperature? Did you take it? If so what was it?
I am concerned he has been panting and is lethargic. I think you might need to take him to the ER to see what is wrong.
I’m glad he is eating well.
Please keep posting. I am concerned about your kitty Fang.
 
MacFang Mom said:
  • Was your kitty diagnosed a year ago? Yes
  • How was the insulin dose increased? after a week or so, the vet said to increase based on his peeing, drinking, and eating habits.
  • How often are you testing the blood glucose? today I've already tested him 6 times.
  • Are you using a pet or a human glucose meter? pet meter. VQ Pet tester
  • What food are you feeding him now? Fancy feast in the morning and whenever he is begging (vet said to feed him) and dry Purina Dietetic management on an automatic feeder just for during the night with a tsp or thereabouts every 2/3 hours after 11pm.
  • Are you testing for ketones in the urine? If not, could you go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy today and test the urine for ketones please? I am concerned about the lethargy. It could be from the blood glucose dropping to low or from ketones. His blood glucose measures in the high numbers. I just saw your message now, I'll have to go out tomorrow to see if a pharmacy has this. I found a link in the post above about his lethargy possibly be because of needing Vitamin B12. I've ordered that on Amazon, can't find it locally. He has a temperature today. After I posted my question, Fang started panting and felt warm, so I cooled him down with wet papertowels, he slept and seemed less anxious and breathing is better. He is in front of a fan now.
  • Are you testing before every dose of insulin and during the cycle? It’s important for us to see how low the dose is taking your kitty. It is possible he is dropping low during the cycle and then bouncing back up again. Today's numbers at 7:48am he was 389 / 21.589, I gave him food 1/2 of 3 oz. can and 7 units glargine. 9:49am he was 392 / 21.7557 - he ate other 1/2 of 3 oz can. 11:28am he was really weak but ate another 1/2 of 3 oz. can. 12:17pm, his blood glucose shows 327 and he felt warm, cooled him off. 5pm his blood glucose was 417 / 23.1432 and 7:11pm it was 409 / 22.699 and administered 7 units with 3 oz. can of food. he was hungry after just a half can.
  • Do you have more blood glucose data you could share with us.? I am going to ask @@Bandit's Mom if she could set up a spreadsheet for you today so we can get to the bottom of what is happening. I have been writing this down on sheets of paper but need to transfer the data to a spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I see you have managed to set up the Spreadsheet. That’s great.
We will need to see several days of blood glucose (BG) data to form an opinion about what is going on.
Yes please get the Ketostix tomorrow and test Fang’s urine.
How do you know he has a temperature? Did you take it? If so what was it?
I am concerned he has been panting and is lethargic. I think you might need to take him to the ER to see what is wrong.
I’m glad he is eating well.
Please keep posting. I am concerned about your kitty Fang.
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
Thanks for adding some data.
If you can continue to get a preshot BG and at least one test in during every cycle, we will be able to tell if Fang is getting too much or not enough insulin. It is possible Fang might be bouncing. We will only be able to tell by seeing some more BG data.
I am going to give you an explanation about bouncing.
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I see you have managed to set up the Spreadsheet. That’s great.
We will need to see several days of blood glucose (BG) data to form an opinion about what is going on.
Yes please get the Ketostix tomorrow and test Fang’s urine.
How do you know he has a temperature? Did you take it? If so what was it?
I am concerned he has been panting and is lethargic. I think you might need to take him to the ER to see what is wrong.
I’m glad he is eating well.
Please keep posting. I am concerned about your kitty Fang.
Click to expand...

Thank you. He felt warm. I did not take his temperature. I called the emergency pet hospital and they said to monitor him for the day and night and if he is still panting or breathing too much, to take him in to them. I just moistened him down again and he stood in front of the fan. He was hungry again. Possibly this bouncing effect. Argh, this is such a pain.
 
Thank you so much for adding all that BG data. It’s very helpful. Do you think you could get at least one test in every pm cycle? What we are looking for is big drops.
So far I can only see a few drops into yellow which could trigger a bounce as he’s not used to being in lower numbers any more, but there are no drops into lower greens, which could indicate the dose is too high. So I don’t think you have reached the best dose yet.
The dry food you are feeding is high carb… 18%.. so that is contributing to the higher BGs.
Do you think you could eliminate the dry food and substitute low carb wet food for overnight? It sounds as if you have an auto timed feeder. You can use those for canned food.
Or if you are in the US there are about three low carb dry options.
If you think you might try swapping the dry overnight food for low carb, don’t increase the dose again yet and you will need to monitor the BGs quite closely during the swap over in case the BGs drop. Do the swap over several days … not too fast. And we don’t want him not wanting to eat. It’s important he eats well.
I’m going to ask @Wendy&Neko to look at the SS and see what she thinks.
 
Hello and welcome.

There are a couple cells at preshot time, such as Aug 31 and Sept 1, where the units is blank. Did you skip the dose or ? If you do skip the dose, write "skip" in the cell, so we know that's what happened instead of just forgetting to enter the data. Lantus/glargine is a depot style meaning that the results can be cumulative so a skip or reduced dose impacts the numbers, which is good for us to know.

My cat's dose went above 8 units, some cats need more insulin. But we need to make sure the dose was arrived at safely.

For Fang's breathing, count the number of complete in and out breaths per minute when he is at rest. I used the timer on my phone for that. The number should be in the 20-30 range.

Lethargy isn't caused by low B12, but his gait or inability to jump may be. It's called Neuropathy, see this post: Feline Diabetic Neuropathy

The green bean suggestion is odd, haven't seen that one before.
 
I counted 28 complete breathes for 1 minute. He is laying right up against a fan which I left on all night for him.
I think what happened around 8/31 and 9/1 - I was running low on testers and my mail was running late to my area.
His gait and not jumping is definitely happening, he doesn't even come upstairs anymore, just stays downstairs.
How often should I be feeding him if his numbers are so bad? I am just so confused and need all the guidance I can get. I feel like I'm doing such a bad job and it's giving me anxiety.
 
You are not doing a bad job at all. You are doing a great job helping him. Some cats take longer than others to regulate especially if the advice from a vet has not been the best.
It sounds as if he has neuropathy which is common in diabetic cats. My Sheba had it. It will improve when the BG numbers return to normal. You can also give Zobaline tablets which you can get from lifelink.com

You need to feed him regardless of the numbers. Withholding food will only cause other problems. He will be hungry because he can’t absorb all the nutrients in the food when the BGs are so high. Give him good meals before the insulin and then give snacks during the cycles.
keep posting and asking questions. We are here to help.
 
Thank you. I definitely think it's neuropathy as well. I'll look into getting Zobaline tablets, but I've ordered liquid Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin which only arrives on Monday some time. Ok, so if I order Zobaline, it will only get here next Thursday. Do you think I can give him both or is it the same thing? I'm also stopping dry food completely and see where that takes us and I've stopped the green beans and carrots that the vet advised to give him.
 
Zobaline which is methyl B12 is not the same is vitaminB12 Methylcobalamin so they can both be given but I would consult the vet about the vitaminB12 Methylcobalamin…the vet most likely will not know about the Zobaline. They don’t stock it.
Only the Zobaline will help the neuropathy.
Just do any swap over of food slowly and monitor the BGs closely when doing it. And make sure he is eating well still. We don’t want him reducing his food intake.
If you could document in the remarks column of the spreadsheet the swap over of food, that will help us a lot thx.
 
Ok, I put a call in with his Vet, see if he will return my call. He is not giving me much confidence. I'll get the Zobaline too just in case tonight. I'll take anything at this point. Poor baby.
 
MacFang Mom said:
Ok, I put a call in with his Vet, see if he will return my call. He is not giving me much confidence. I'll get the Zobaline too just in case tonight. I'll take anything at this point. Poor baby.
Click to expand...
Yes definitely get the Zobaline. That is the one that will help the neuropathy. I used it with Sheba. It doesn’t work immediately. It takes time and the BGs need to come down. But it should happen. It took about 6 months for Sheba to improve
 
I finally was able to get hold of his Vet and he is seeing him tomorrow. He will look into Zobaline and the B12 M.. supplements and he is thinking of attaching a freestyle libre device to him.
 
MacFang Mom said:
I finally was able to get hold of his Vet and he is seeing him tomorrow. He will look into Zobaline and the B12 M.. supplements and he is thinking of attaching a freestyle libre device to him.
Click to expand...

Be aware
The FreeStyle Libre is not reliable, the sensor is supposed to last 14 days, however in many times it last less 5-8 days they tend to read Low BG's inaccurately, and when it reaches 300 BG or more all you are going to read is HIGH from the monitor, although they are guaranteed it takes 48 hours to arrive, and when you call for replacement you cannot say is for your cat, or they will not replace the sensor, is best to have an extra one on hand, so you will not miss any BG testing and they also tend to fall quite easily, and the sensors are expensive, believe me, that is what my Corky left the hospital with, I was insane with fear and stress, if you do decide to use the Libre, see how your Vet places the sensor, you do not need to have the Vet place it , it is very easy to do, most of the members use a human monitor like the ReliOn Premier and strips . Hope this information helps you decide. Hope McFang gets better soon:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
MacFang Mom said:
I finally was able to get hold of his Vet and he is seeing him tomorrow. He will look into Zobaline and the B12 M.. supplements and he is thinking of attaching a freestyle libre device to him.
Click to expand...
Just be aware most vets don’t know about methyl B12 (Zobaline) and he might dismiss it or get it mixed up with the vitaminB12 Methylcobalamin which is no good for neuropathy
Please don’t be put off by that. Zobaline does work.
 
JL and Chip said:
Can you describe this disorientstion further? What is he doing, or how is he looking/acting?
Click to expand...

He was walking in circles and I'd put food in front of him and he would not see it. I took him to the Vet on Friday. They said I should start from the beginning with 2 units in the morning and evening. And no food after insulin. I've updated the ss. The vet wants me to switch to Hill prescription wet food for gluco or multi. Thoughts?
 
Why have you gone back to 2 units?
That is not a good idea. Please go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from the pharmacy so you can test for ketones in the urine.

can you please set up the signature please so we can see information on Fang. We can’t keep going back through all the posts. It’s too time consuming. Thx. I’ll send link how to set up signature

And please DO FEED DURING THe CYCLES. telling you not to feed us very bad advice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top