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Dds35day

Member Since 2019
I just started using the freestyle libre and I am surprised and don't know how to deal with the bg readings. She started out the day before breakfast around 100 and I didn't inject. She eats small amounts of FF regularly throughout the day. She went up to 165 by 3:30 when I went to work. I leave FF out for her but she only nibbles when I'm not home. When I got home her bg was 298. I gave her dinner and her usual two units of Lantus. Then we woke up at 1:00am and her bg was 73 so I gave her several tablespoons of FF. She woke me up at 4:00am for food and her bg was 50. I quickly fed her FF for about 30 minutes and her bg went up to 63 and then 87.
I really need help. My previous vet just did occasional spot checks so I had no idea. I was injecting her with two units when she could have been really low. If she hasn't woken me up last night at 4:00am I don't know what could have happened.
She has been losing weight for several months and we have tested her for everything. The specialist said we need to see if her diabetes is causing it.
Do I need to set the alarm overnight so she doesn't get really low. I really appreciate guidance. I am very surprised.
 
Hi and welcome

It was a good catch I'm glad everyone is ok giving him food was the way to go but I do strongly suggest that you prepare a hypo kit (https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/) so that you can have something like karo ( conr syrup) that has a lot more carbs and that acts faster that FF that is low carb and do read this information regarding hypos https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

For the look of it it seems that you need to lower the dose, actually according to the protocols that we use here with that 50 reading you got you definitely have to lower the dose and also because of the fact that you are not being able to shoot twice a day, you can get familiar with the protocols later ( this is the link for the Lantus protocols https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/)

I haven't used the freestyle libre but for what I read it tends to not be very accurate especially in low numbers so it may be a good idea to practice taking glucose test with a regular meter

It would help if you could give us some more information and share with us the readings you have been getting other than the ones from last night there's an spreadsheet we use for that (here's the link on how to set it up but if you need help let us know so that someone can help you do it https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/)

I know is a lot of information all at once but do feel free to ask as much as you need/want

Regarding the loosing of weight, yes diabetic cats when not regulated ( that is when their diabetes is out of control) do tend to loose weight because the high levels of glucose in their blood do not allow the body to asimilate the food nutrients as well as it should but once regulated they recover
 
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Dds35day said:
Do I need to set the alarm overnight so she doesn't get really low. I really appreciate guidance. I am very surprised.
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For now and untill you start learning how his body reacts it would be a good idea to at least ckeck him about two hours after his shoot to make shure he's ok and not starting to go low
 
Thank you. I am totally overwhelmed. I will get the items at the store. I only have two days data and will send a full week as soon as I have it. She was at 298 yesterday evening so I gave her the two units. You think I should reduce to 1.5? I really have no idea what I am doing and I am mortified that I have been hurting her by not managing her diabetes..it seems like this may be why she is losing weight, don't you think?
Thank you.
 
Dds35day said:
Thank you. I am totally overwhelmed. I will get the items at the store. I only have two days data and will send a full week as soon as I have it. She was at 298 yesterday evening so I gave her the two units. You think I should reduce to 1.5? I really have no idea what I am doing and I am mortified that I have been hurting her by not managing her diabetes..it seems like this may be why she is losing weight, don't you think?
Thank you.
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Hi and Welcome to the group. This is all pretty new to me as well and I can totally relate to the overwhelmed part. I felt like I was drowning, and this place was the life guard who saved me.

Those BG numbers aren't that bad imo, with the help from the experts here I am sure you'll get her diabetes regulated in no time! A really good thing to do is setup your signature with info about your kitty, like when she was diagnosed, her name, age, what kind of food she is being fed, insulin type, etc. See mine below as an example. This way people don't ask the same questions over and over!

We can be new at this together, I'll see you around the forums. My name's Kyle. :)
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Hi and welcome

It was a good catch I'm glad everyone is ok giving him food was the way to go but I do strongly suggest that you prepare a hypo kit (https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/) so that you can have something like karo ( conr syrup) that has a lot more carbs and that acts faster that FF that is low carb and do read this information regarding hypos https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

For the look of it it seems that you need to lower the dose, actually according to the protocols that we use here with that 50 reading you got you definitely have to lower the dose and also because of the fact that you are not being able to shoot twice a day, you can get familiar with the protocols later ( this is the link for the Lantus protocols https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/)

I haven't used the freestyle libre but for what I read it tends to not be very accurate especially in low numbers so it may be a good idea to practice taking glucose test with a regular meter

It would help if you could give us some more information and share with us the readings you have been getting other than the ones from last night there's an spreadsheet we use for that (here's the link on how to set it up but if you need help let us know so that someone can help you do it https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/)

I know is a lot of information all at once but do feel free to ask as much as you need/want

Regarding the loosing of weight, yes diabetic cats when not regulated ( that is when their diabetes is out of control) do tend to loose weight because the high levels of glucose in their blood do not allow the body to asimilate the food nutrients as well as it should but once regulated they recover
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I can't thank you enough. I am going to do everything suggested. She has been losing weight and was actually put on Chlorambucil, tested for EPI, thyroid levels, lots of blood work but not until I went to an IM specialist did she say she thought it is her diabetes. I am horrified that I have hurt her but at least now I know the cause and can do whatever I need to to help her. My old vet who treated her for 18 years did not suspect her diabetes. I thought she was going to die.
Thank you more than I can say.
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
Hi and Welcome to the group. This is all pretty new to me as well and I can totally relate to the overwhelmed part. I felt like I was drowning, and this place was the life guard who saved me.

Those BG numbers aren't that bad imo, with the help from the experts here I am sure you'll get her diabetes regulated in no time! A really good thing to do is setup your signature with info about your kitty, like when she was diagnosed, her name, age, what kind of food she is being fed, insulin type, etc. See mine below as an example. This way people don't ask the same questions over and over!

We can be new at this together, I'll see you around the forums. My name's Kyle. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. This is literally a life saver
 
Dds35day said:
Thank you. I am totally overwhelmed. I will get the items at the store. I only have two days data and will send a full week as soon as I have it. She was at 298 yesterday evening so I gave her the two units. You think I should reduce to 1.5? I really have no idea what I am doing and I am mortified that I have been hurting her by not managing her diabetes..it seems like this may be why she is losing weight, don't you think?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Yes with the numbers you are getting I and with the little data you have I would consider going even to 1 unit, let his body get used to the insulin with 1 unit for about 1 week and after that slowly very slowly if he needs more insulin start raising it it would be best if you change doses in 0.25 units but that would depend on the readings you get we would have to check before raising the dose

And it is quite probable that the weight loss is because of diabetes, specially since you have already checked for other issues, diabetic cats do loose weight
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Yes with the numbers you are getting I and with the little data you have I would consider going even to 1 unit, let his body get used to the insulin with 1 unit for about 1 week and after that slowly very slowly if he needs more insulin start raising it it would be best if you change doses in 0.25 units but that would depend on the readings you get we would have to check before raising the dose

And it is quite probable that the weight loss is because of diabetes, specially since you have already checked for other issues, diabetic cats do loose weight
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Thank you so much. It will do this evening. If she has another reading like she did yesterday evening at 298 I should still go down to 1 or try 1.5 for one night? My syringes don't measure in quarters or even halves.
 
Dds35day said:
Thank you so much. It will do this evening. If she has another reading like she did yesterday evening at 298 I should still go down to 1 or try 1.5 for one night? My syringes don't measure in quarters or even halves.
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I suggest you give 1 unit because you need to dose based on the numbers you saw during the whole cycle more specifically on the lower numbers you saw and that was around 50 not on the pre shoot number, that one is used to make sure is safe to give insulin but not to dose
 
As for the syringes you may be able to get syringes with half unit marks ( I'm not sure where you are) and that makes dosing easier so get them if you can, for dosing the 0.25 increments you will need to eyeball the dose no matter what syriges you use, I know is not ideal but we have to adapt since syringes were designed for humans and larger doses

Here's some information about syringes and measuring small doses ( sorry I know more information) https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
No need to thank us just keep us posted on how he's doing, lower his dose and monitor him to keep him safe and ask all you need
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I will do. She is my family and for months I have been trying to find out what is causing her weight loss. Nobody thought of diabetes. I am very grateful for the guidance to decrease her dose. I knew it was wrong for her to tank overnight but didn't know what to do because her late evening bg was 298. I am recording everything in my imperfect way but the BG level, shots are there. I realized she basically free feeds FF wet. I can't exactly capture how much she eats because she eats, stops and comes back twenty minutes later. Is this acceptable? It came about because she vomited her whole life if she eat more than a quarter cup or less. So I give her that and when she's ready so rings the bell (me) for seconds
 
Dds35day said:
I realized she basically free feeds FF wet. I can't exactly capture how much she eats because she eats, stops and comes back twenty minutes later. Is this acceptable? It came about because she vomited her whole life if she eat more than a quarter cup or less. So I give her that and when she's ready so rings the bell (me) for seconds
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As long as she is unregulated and not overweight ( which if she's been losing a lot of weight I don't think she is) I would say you can feed her all she wants in the way she is used to so that you do not upset her stomach
 
Thank you. She also has ibd and is on budesonide. She is ravenous and insists on food every 45 minutes or sooner. I pray this helps.
I will do absolutely anything I can for her that doesn't cause her any more discomfort.
Thank you very much.
She went into one of her closet hideouts for a nap.
 
Dds35day said:
She is ravenous and insists on food every 45 minutes or sooner. I pray this helps.
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It's ok for her to eat when ever she's hungry, just try if possible not to give her food two hours (or as close to that time as possible given her circumstances) before her shoot time so that the reading you get before giving insulin is not food influenced and you know is safe to shoot

And let us know how she's doing and how last night went
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
It's ok for her to eat when ever she's hungry, just try if possible not to give her food two hours (or as close to that time as possible given her circumstances) before her shoot time so that the reading you get before giving insulin is not food influenced and you know is safe to shoot

And let us know how she's doing and how last night went
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Last night was much better. I did lower the dose to 1 unit. I woke up at 1:00 and 3;00am and it was somewhat high. Ranging from 215 at 1:00am to 247 at 3:20am should I give her 1.5 units at night? This morning I gave her 1.5 and her numbers are high: 214, 252 and 187. Should I give her two units in the morning. Yesterday morning her numbers were around 144, 179, 160 after the very low overnight. I am grateful for the guidance.
 
Dds35day said:
Last night was much better. I did lower the dose to 1 unit. I woke up at 1:00 and 3;00am and it was somewhat high. Ranging from 215 at 1:00am to 247 at 3:20am should I give her 1.5 units at night? This morning I gave her 1.5 and her numbers are high: 214, 252 and 187. Should I give her two units in the morning. Yesterday morning her numbers were around 144, 179, 160 after the very low overnight. I am grateful for the guidance.
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Ok let me try and give you an idea of how Lantus works, the thing is Lantus needs consistency to work best, dealing with diabetes is a long sometimes very long process, you need to be very very patient and we want her blood glucose numbers to start going down kind of in a slow manner this means that even though her numbers may not be ideal you need to go slow so you do not change doses every time you shoot based on the readings you are getting in just a few hours, you need to hold the dose at least 3 days ( 6 cycles) even if her numbers are high because you need her body to get used to the dose and the depot to form ( I'll try and explain the depot latter ) sometimes depending on her numbers it could even be more days, actually since she probably was in a very high dose I and you have been changing doses frequently (sometimes from one shot to another) I would recommend as mentioned before that you keep her in 1 unit for at least 5 days to allow her body to stabilise unless she drops to 50 or lower, if that happens you reduce the dose to 0.75 units if not and after the 5 day period you will evaluate if she needs to increase the dose or not (I'm considering the tight regulation protocol since she has the freestyle libre and you can get a lot of readings when you take it off this may need to change)

Regarding the depot that I mentioned earlier Lantus is slowly absorbed by the body over a longer period than regular insulin, it has an extended period of action. These insulin tends to display a cumulative effect, meaning that what happens in one cycle can affect the next cycle, or even cycles over the next several days. This is this action that allows Lantus to create those beautiful, flat curves, but it needs time to acumulate and really take effect that is why is best not to change doses unless her blood glucose gets too low, Here's more information about that https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/what-is-the-insulin-depot.150/
 
That's ok we all have been there you should have seen me when Babu and I started this whole business we were a mess he even hypoed really scary stuff
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
That's ok we all have been there you should have seen me when Babu and I started this whole business we were a mess he even hypoed really scary stuff
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Thank you. I just was reading some of the information and I think I did get it all. I understand that I should not change the dose in response to numbers each time. I need to do this correctly so we can find out if this is why she has been losing weight and stop it. I did my signature and saved the spreadsheet format. Will work on filling it out. I am really a dumb newbie
 
Dds35day said:
Thank you. I just was reading some of the information and I think I did get it all. I understand that I should not change the dose in response to numbers each time. I need to do this correctly so we can find out if this is why she has been losing weight and stop it. I did my signature and saved the spreadsheet format. Will work on filling it out. I am really a dumb newbie
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There's not such thing as a dumb newbie just newbie, and this diabetic stuff is complicated takes a bit to get the hang of it but you are doing very well a lot better than me at first for sure and yes do remember that diabetes does cause cats (and humans ) to lose weight because too much glucose in your blood does not allow the cells to get the nutrients they need, and that is also the reason they are always very hungry, their bodies are asking for food even when they just ate because it needs the nutrients it is not really getting, but once they get regulated even if they do not go into remission and need the insulin that goes back to normal and most of them do regain the weight they lost, well Babu did not recover all the weight just part of it but that is because he's really difficult with food :rolleyes:
 
Thank you. So if she is having numbers within the normal range consistently she should stop losing weight? She is scaring me. We tested for everything but no one suggested her diabetes. She is very skinny now. I am going to try to do everything right. The first few days I scanned her every ten minutes...
I appreciate you explaining that there is not an immediate connection to dose and glucose levels. I had thought it was. Tomorrow I have to work all day and I hate leaving her so long. I leave a lot of FF out but she doesn't eat much when I'm not home. Will her bg be ok?
Thank you.
 
Dds35day said:
Will her bg be ok?
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Monitor her today during the day and tonight for a while and if her blood glucose levels are not too low she would be ok, it is dangerous when they get to low but if they are high as long as they don't have ketones which she unfortunately doesn't have it's not really risky probably just a bit uncomfortable for her but don't worry little by little her numbers will come down
 
You might want to set up a spreadsheet so members can see how the lantus is working and how low Biddy is dropping and can give you advice.
If you have trouble setting it up I will tag Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom to PM you and she will set it up for you. Look for her message up top where it says inbox

Here is the link if you want to give it a try, it will also explain how the SS works
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
You can order the U-100 syringes with half unit markings here
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/5739/ulticare-u100-vet-rx-half-unit-syringes-31g-3-10cc-60ct
Just call them and tell them what syringes you want and they will contact your vet , your vet can fax it over, give your vet the heads up. Ask for refills also, then you can just order the refills yourself. These make it easier when you have to increase or decrease by 0.25 units ,you still have to eyeball quarter units but its easier to do with half unit syringes
Give them this code
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10% off your next order!
 
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For your hypo kit
For your hypo kit you want some
Med and High Carb food and some honey



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Thanks
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I am really anxious about this because she has lost a lot of weight and I didn't know what I was doing wrong. I am very concerned about stopping the weight loss asap because she is getting really too skinny. So when I see high numbers I worry she will continue to lose weight.
What will be necessary before she would stop losing weight.
At 1 unit her numbers are around 250 but I am scared of giving more for fear of another low reading. This is very difficult because I feel like her life is in jeopardy because it has been uncontrolled so long. I really didn't know anything about managing this and really messed her up.
Thank you very much.
 
Dds35day said:
I am really anxious about this because she has lost a lot of weight and I didn't know what I was doing wrong. I am very concerned about stopping the weight loss asap because she is getting really too skinny. So when I see high numbers I worry she will continue to lose weight.
What will be necessary before she would stop losing weight.
At 1 unit her numbers are around 250 but I am scared of giving more for fear of another low reading. This is very difficult because I feel like her life is in jeopardy because it has been uncontrolled so long. I really didn't know anything about managing this and really messed her up.
Thank you very much.
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Hi Dayna! Welcome to FDMB! :-)
I can help set up your spreadsheet. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.

Lantus dosing is based on how low it takes the cat. Newly diagnosed cats will "bounce" to higher numbers when they start seeing lower numbers. Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver".

Unregulated diabetic cats cannot process their food which is why they lose weight and are constantly hungry. Once their blood sugar starts getting controlled, they regain the weight and the clinical symptoms of diabetes (excessive thrist, hunger and urination) will reduce.
 
Welcome to FDMB!!

There is a lot of good information that people have posted. The beginning of this process can be more than a bit overwhelming. You have learned how to deal with your cat's IBD. You can just as readily learn how to manage Biddy's feline diabetes (FD). It really does get easier!! There are any number of people here with a great deal of experience both with feline diabetes and other conditions. Let me do a bit of summarizing what's been posted and add a few things, as well.
  • First, there is a ton of information in the sticky notes about Lantus at the top of the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilar board.
  • The helping us to help you post will provide most of the fundamentals for getting started.
  • Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle (i.e., the nadir). You don't base the amount of the dose on the pre-shot number.
    • That said, you don't want to shoot a lower number until you have a little more experience. How low you shoot depends on which dosing method you choose.
  • There are two dosing methods that we use - Tight Regulation (TR) and Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). They differ in terms of how frequently you increase the dose, the point at which you decrease the dose, and how low you can shoot. TR has published research to support its use. SLGS was developed here and has been used for almost 20 years.
  • We are very numbers dependent. Having a spreadsheet will allow you to keep track of Biddy's progress and let the members here follow along and offer suggestions about dosing. Please take Bhooma (Bandit's Mom) up on her suggestion re. getting your spreadsheet set up. I'm one of those people who will not offer any suggestions without being able to see an up-to-date spreadsheet since it's just not safe to offer advise without seeing the data.
  • Biddy's weight loss: Along with thirst and excessive urination, weight loss is a symptom of diabetes. Insulin is responsible for transporting the end product of food metabolism, glucose, into the cells. If your cat's pancreas isn't producing enough insulin to accomplish that, despite eating ravenously, the glucose is floating around in the blood stream and not "feeding" your cat. As a result, you cat is losing weight. Once numbers are in a better range, your cat will begin to gain weight.
    • Food: Please make sure the Fancy Feast your giving Biddy is low in carbohydrates. Not all foods are created equal. This is a chart that lists most of the canned foods available in the US. You want to select foods that are under 10% carbs. (Most of the people here use foods that are in the 5% range.)
    • IBD and food: You may want to consider novel proteins and/or a novel protein raw diet. I have an IBD kitty. Prior to his diagnosis, I had fed Gizmo a diet of either chicken or turkey. It turns out that poultry, beef, and fish are often proteins that are associated with IBD. I now feed a partial raw diet of pork or venison (along with a pre-mix that supplies the supplements needed to make the raw food nutritionally complete) and ZiwiPeak venison or rabbit and lamb canned food.
    • Timed feeder: It's a huge job to be feeding your cat every 45 min. You may want to consider a timed feeder. It will allow you to sleep at night!
Please let us know how we can help. The members here are very generous with their time an knowledge.
 
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