I don't know what to do anymore. My Polarbear age 11 now was diagnosed with Diabetes a little over a year ago. He has been very difficult to manage. We have never seen improvements in his numbers and right now I am giving him 10 Units of Lantus a day and he is still in the 300's. His only focus now is food and water and he drinks a ton. His litter box is another story, I basically live in one. I can't stay on top of it and I clean the box 1-2 times a day. If I don't he will track litter/pee/poop everywhere in the house and on his paws. He has no interest in playing and he is now on Prozac for behavior issues that also escalated since this diagnosis. He has been urinating on the floor no matter how clean his box is. I know that he is not going to get any better and the Vet has said that I've done a lot already and there is a 10% of cats that is difficult to manage. My heart says it would be ok to let him go, but then again I feel like I am throwing him away and giving up on him. He's not on his "deathbed" so I am conflicted with what to do. I am looking for some personal advise please someone help me.
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- Thread starter Serenb85
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rhiannon and shadow (GA)
Member Since 2012
This is my best advice.
It sounds like you don't want to give up.... not yet. It is not true that he can not get better.
He can. It doesn't sound like your vet deals with Feline Diabetes that much.
All of us here can help you.
If you would start posting daily.
Let us set up a spreadsheet for you. Or if you can.... http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
We are a small community who want to help others deal with this and improve their cats lives and well as their own.
We have all kinds of tips because we all deal with it.
Ask questions. We've got suggestions.
We need the spreadsheet to see the data and advise on dosage and schedules. Depending on how often you are testing, there may be things
going on. We want to see the numbers.
There is someone who can do this for you if I tag her. She doesn't mind.
There are high dose conditions that Polarbear probably needs to be tested for. It would explain why he needs more insulin than average.
@Wendy&Neko
@Sandy and Black Kitty
They know more about that and can also tag others who are also dealing with high dose kitties.
I'll check back on your reply.
and here's a hug.
We've been where you are.
It sounds like you don't want to give up.... not yet. It is not true that he can not get better.
He can. It doesn't sound like your vet deals with Feline Diabetes that much.
All of us here can help you.
If you would start posting daily.
Let us set up a spreadsheet for you. Or if you can.... http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
We are a small community who want to help others deal with this and improve their cats lives and well as their own.
We have all kinds of tips because we all deal with it.
Ask questions. We've got suggestions.
We need the spreadsheet to see the data and advise on dosage and schedules. Depending on how often you are testing, there may be things
going on. We want to see the numbers.
There is someone who can do this for you if I tag her. She doesn't mind.
There are high dose conditions that Polarbear probably needs to be tested for. It would explain why he needs more insulin than average.
@Wendy&Neko
@Sandy and Black Kitty
They know more about that and can also tag others who are also dealing with high dose kitties.
I'll check back on your reply.
and here's a hug.
We've been where you are.
Jan Radar (GA)
Member Since 2015
The first thing I want to say to you is welcome to the very best place that you never thought you'd be. I'm so glad you found us. 
Now take a deep breath and know that we can help you as there are many wise experienced people here who very generously give their time to help others with their kitties.
We all remember how we felt when we just didn't know what to do to help our furry friend feel better and regain some quality of life.
If you can answer a few questions, it will help us to help you.
Are you home testing Polarbear's glucose levels? How did you arrive at a dose of 10 units of Lantus?
Now take a deep breath and know that we can help you as there are many wise experienced people here who very generously give their time to help others with their kitties.
We all remember how we felt when we just didn't know what to do to help our furry friend feel better and regain some quality of life.If you can answer a few questions, it will help us to help you.
Are you home testing Polarbear's glucose levels? How did you arrive at a dose of 10 units of Lantus?
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
Hey , there and welcome! We can help. Rhiannon suggested to get an spread sheet up and going so we can see what is happening, that is if you are home testing. If not, let us help you learn how and start so that we how low the dose is taking PolarBear and to keep him safe.
ETA: I didn't want to assume you were home testing in case you are having the curves done by the vet. But, hope that you are.
ETA: I didn't want to assume you were home testing in case you are having the curves done by the vet. But, hope that you are.
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Welcome to you and Polarbear.
I am sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time getting Polarbear regulated. Perhaps you could give some more details about your kitty. How much does he weigh? How much should he weigh? How large a dose of Lantus was he started on? Does he have any other health issues? Has he had a complete medical exam with blood tests, urine tests, etc.? Has your vet submitted the special blood tests to find out if he is insulin resistant or may have acromegaly? (I don't recall the exact name of these tests, but I know that other people here will be able to guide you(@Wendy&Neko; @Sandy and Black Kitty ).
I see just now that Rhiannon has given you most of this information already. We are glad that you have found this forum.
I would just like to add that often vets are not knowledgeable about how Lantus--a depot insulin--works; they are used to the older insulins, which are very different with regard to dosing procedures. Therefore, cats can be started on too high a dose and have their dose raised by their vets too frequently and by too large an amount. Too much insulin often results in high numbers.
Be sure to read the informational notes at the top of the Lantus & Levemir Forum (the "Stickies"). Begin with the one entitled "New to the Group". Lots of info. here. Don't think you have to learn everything at once!
Welcome again! (what is your first name?)
I am sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time getting Polarbear regulated. Perhaps you could give some more details about your kitty. How much does he weigh? How much should he weigh? How large a dose of Lantus was he started on? Does he have any other health issues? Has he had a complete medical exam with blood tests, urine tests, etc.? Has your vet submitted the special blood tests to find out if he is insulin resistant or may have acromegaly? (I don't recall the exact name of these tests, but I know that other people here will be able to guide you(@Wendy&Neko; @Sandy and Black Kitty ).
I see just now that Rhiannon has given you most of this information already. We are glad that you have found this forum.
I would just like to add that often vets are not knowledgeable about how Lantus--a depot insulin--works; they are used to the older insulins, which are very different with regard to dosing procedures. Therefore, cats can be started on too high a dose and have their dose raised by their vets too frequently and by too large an amount. Too much insulin often results in high numbers.
Be sure to read the informational notes at the top of the Lantus & Levemir Forum (the "Stickies"). Begin with the one entitled "New to the Group". Lots of info. here. Don't think you have to learn everything at once!
Welcome again! (what is your first name?)
Th
Thank you so much for your support! He was a 17lb cat and has lost weight since. He is now 14lb was 12 at one time when his sugars were elevated. I check his sugar levels 2-3 times a week both in am and pm. His average is 270-400 always. We started with Lantus because I was told it is the best. We started with 2 units daily and then have increased it over the last year. His sugars have never budged maybe a 150 here and there, but ultimately he has always been high. We have treated him for UTI's twice the first time I saw a difference but only for a moment, then this last time I didn't see any improvement. He is a large cat and always has been. The vet has wondered if he has acromegaly but the test is 300 dollars. However, I know if the test is positive there is not much to do except a treatment that can cost 6000 dollars which I do not have. I've already discussed changing the type of insulin, but I just don't know. He eats a wet food diet that only has 3-5 carbs and more protein. I wanted to decrease the amount of food we give him, which is 2 cans a day, but when we do he goes crazy! The amount of water he drinks and has been drinking since being diagnosed is ridiculous. .
Thank you so much for your support! He was a 17lb cat and has lost weight since. He is now 14lb was 12 at one time when his sugars were elevated. I check his sugar levels 2-3 times a week both in am and pm. His average is 270-400 always. We started with Lantus because I was told it is the best. We started with 2 units daily and then have increased it over the last year. His sugars have never budged maybe a 150 here and there, but ultimately he has always been high. We have treated him for UTI's twice the first time I saw a difference but only for a moment, then this last time I didn't see any improvement. He is a large cat and always has been. The vet has wondered if he has acromegaly but the test is 300 dollars. However, I know if the test is positive there is not much to do except a treatment that can cost 6000 dollars which I do not have. I've already discussed changing the type of insulin, but I just don't know. He eats a wet food diet that only has 3-5 carbs and more protein. I wanted to decrease the amount of food we give him, which is 2 cans a day, but when we do he goes crazy! The amount of water he drinks and has been drinking since being diagnosed is ridiculous. .
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
Hello and welcome!
I am very glad you have found your way to this Board - a lot of knowledge and care is here for you and your kitty!
Welcome and ask any questions. Please do not feel discouraged with high numbers.
You are in the right place to found a solution!
I am very glad you have found your way to this Board - a lot of knowledge and care is here for you and your kitty!
There many on this Board whose cats were diagnosed with Acro but do not treat it. I am tagging here @Bronx's dad , @Sharon14 two people who I know deal with Acro and diabetes successfully but there are also others who will also be happy to share their knowledge/ approaches to caring for Acro cats at home - I cannnot remember all of the names now.
Congrats on having this vet! From what I hear the majority of the vet community believe that Acro is too rare in cats to deal with.
I strongly doubt that a few tests a WEEK can provide you with reliable average number. If you start testing more often and record the results you might see much different picture in a couple of weeks.
Welcome and ask any questions. Please do not feel discouraged with high numbers.
You are in the right place to found a solution!
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
So glad that you are home testing. Let's get you testing more than a few times a week so we can get the whole picture as to what is happening during each cycle. It is possible that he is going lower and you aren't catching those numbers and are only see the bounce numbers. Below is a explanation of bouncing in case you aren't familiar with it.
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
The most important test are the pre shot to make sure it is safe to shoot insulin and then a +2 (2 hours after the insulin injection) is a great test to have an indication as to how active the cycle will be. If the +2 test is the same number or lower than the pre shot number then it could be an active cycle meaning you will see downward movement and more monitoring could be necessary. Also if you can get some where around the middle of the cycle which is the nadir or lowest point the insulin takes him in that cycle. Those numbers are important to get as we base the dose on the lowest point the cycle is.
Can we get you to set up a Spread Sheet ( SS) so it will help you to see trends and patterns and it will help us to help you. Also if you could set up a signature with pertinent information like : date of diagnosis (DX) age of PolarBear, which insulin, meter you use : human or animal meter, food you feed, time zone you re in, and any other medical conditions and anything else that you'd like to share, other pets in the home, etc and it needs to fit in 3 lines. Then you can link your SS into your signature for us all to see.
If you have trouble setting up the SS just yell and someone can help ( won't be me as I am a tech mo-mo)
Good job in all ready feeding a low carb wet diet. And Tanya tagged some peeps with high dose kitties to help guide you as well.
In case you don't understand the SS here is an explanation on how to use it and to interpret it. :
AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)
The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot
At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over
Keep asking questions as that is how we all learned !
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
The most important test are the pre shot to make sure it is safe to shoot insulin and then a +2 (2 hours after the insulin injection) is a great test to have an indication as to how active the cycle will be. If the +2 test is the same number or lower than the pre shot number then it could be an active cycle meaning you will see downward movement and more monitoring could be necessary. Also if you can get some where around the middle of the cycle which is the nadir or lowest point the insulin takes him in that cycle. Those numbers are important to get as we base the dose on the lowest point the cycle is.
Can we get you to set up a Spread Sheet ( SS) so it will help you to see trends and patterns and it will help us to help you. Also if you could set up a signature with pertinent information like : date of diagnosis (DX) age of PolarBear, which insulin, meter you use : human or animal meter, food you feed, time zone you re in, and any other medical conditions and anything else that you'd like to share, other pets in the home, etc and it needs to fit in 3 lines. Then you can link your SS into your signature for us all to see.
If you have trouble setting up the SS just yell and someone can help ( won't be me as I am a tech mo-mo)
Good job in all ready feeding a low carb wet diet. And Tanya tagged some peeps with high dose kitties to help guide you as well.
In case you don't understand the SS here is an explanation on how to use it and to interpret it. :
AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)
The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot
At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over
Keep asking questions as that is how we all learned !
Hello and welcome!
I am very glad you have found your way to this Board - a lot of knowledge and care is here for you and your kitty!
There many on this Board whose cats were diagnosed with Acro but do not treat it. I am tagging here @Bronx's dad , @Sharon14 two people who I know deal with Acro and diabetes successfully but there are also others who will also be happy to share their knowledge/ approaches to caring for Acro cats at home - I cannnot remember all of the names now.
Congrats on having this vet! From what I hear the majority of the vet community believe that Acro is too rare in cats to deal with.
I strongly doubt that a few tests a WEEK can provide you with reliable average number. If you start testing more often and record the results you might see much different picture in a couple of weeks.
Welcome and ask any questions. Please do not feel discouraged with high numbers.
You are in the right place to found a solution!
Hello and welcome!
I am very glad you have found your way to this Board - a lot of knowledge and care is here for you and your kitty!
There many on this Board whose cats were diagnosed with Acro but do not treat it. I am tagging here @Bronx's dad , @Sharon14 two people who I know deal with Acro and diabetes successfully but there are also others who will also be happy to share their knowledge/ approaches to caring for Acro cats at home - I cannnot remember all of the names now.
Congrats on having this vet! From what I hear the majority of the vet community believe that Acro is too rare in cats to deal with.
I strongly doubt that a few tests a WEEK can provide you with reliable average number. If you start testing more often and record the results you might see much different picture in a couple of weeks.
Welcome and ask any questions. Please do not feel discouraged with high numbers.
You are in the right place to found a solution!
In the beginning I was checking his sugars everyday. I do check and do a curve check when I change his insulin doses. The last 4 months I changed it to 2-3 times a week because I've known what his sugars have been running.
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
That sounds like good amount of data to look at!
Would you please consider setting a spreadsheet and recording the results from the past in to it as suggested in the posts ## 2 &8 ?
Less guesswork and more accurate analyzing is done when one is able to see the chronology of cat's responses thru a period of time. As I posted earlier - you are not alone in this complex situation!
Having speadsheet filled with whatever results you have on Polarbear so far will enable experienced folks on here to assist you better.
I am the one who can do a spreadsheet for you if you like. Just send me a private message as I need some basic info. To send a PM, click on "Marje and Gracie" under Gracie's photo to the left and then "start a conversation".
Just to be clear...is he on 5u twice a day or 10u twice a day? Without a SS, we can't be sure but there is always the chance he might be overdosed and that's why you are seeing these high spot checks and then a 150. A SS will help us immensely .
Just to be clear...is he on 5u twice a day or 10u twice a day? Without a SS, we can't be sure but there is always the chance he might be overdosed and that's why you are seeing these high spot checks and then a 150. A SS will help us immensely .
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Gill & George
Member Since 2015
Hello, and welcome.?
So sorry you are having a difficult time with regulating Polarbear.
You've been given some great advice, I would reiterate that getting the spreadsheet set up will be the best/quickest way for us to help you and polarbear, please don't despair.
One question from me,
What are you feeding Polarbear?
So sorry you are having a difficult time with regulating Polarbear.
You've been given some great advice, I would reiterate that getting the spreadsheet set up will be the best/quickest way for us to help you and polarbear, please don't despair.
One question from me,
What are you feeding Polarbear?
Welcome to Lantus and Lev Land!! This truly in the best place you never wanted to be.
Just to clarify what we mean by testing frequently.... First, look over the sticky notes at the top of the board. They will help you get your bearings here. There's a huge amount of information in the sticky notes and the learning curve can be rather steep. We use two systems for managing a cat's diabetes -- Tight Regulation Protocol (TR) or Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). TR is based on research and has been published in one of the leading feline veterinary journals. It has a great track record for getting newly diagnosed cats into remission. SLGS was developed here prior to there being any dosing protocols to follow and has also done well at getting cats regulated or into remission. TR is the more aggressive of the two approaches. You will want to read these methods through and decide what will work best for you and Polarbear.
With both of these methods, you need to get a test at pre-shot times. You also need to get at the very minimum, one additional test during both the AM and PM cycles. If you look at the spreadsheets that are attached to our signatures, you'll see that some of us (like me) are testaholics. Others do not test as frequently. With Lantus, dosing is based on the nadir (lowest number in the cycle). So, if you are only getting tests at pre-shot times, you may be missing low numbers. As Bobbi was suggesting with bounces, you can see a high pre-shot number, a drop to a point where a dose reduction is warranted by nadir, and a bounce back into the stratosphere by the next shot time. If you didn't test during the cycle, you miss the need for the reduction and because the pre-shot numbers are high, you end up increasing.
To be honest, we are very data oriented. There are several of us who have been here for quite some time and we rely on members' spreadsheets to understand how their cat is responding to insulin. Lantus and Levemir are very different from other types of insulin. If your vet has indicated that you should adjust the dose based on the pre-shot numbers, there's a good chance that your vet is more comfortable with other insulins like ProZinc (which is also a good insulin for cats). The mechanism is different for a depot type of insulin like Lantus vs ProZinc so the dosing approach is also different. Many vets treat all insulin the same.
Please let us know if you have questions. The people here are very generous with their time and knowledge. We would love to hep your get Polarbear to a better place.
BTW, the test for acro isn't that expensive. Perhaps with shipping costs (the test is run at the vet lab at Michigan State University) the amount is higher but the test for acromegaly (IGF- 1) is $55 and for insulin auto antibodies (IAA) is $17 (this latter test is for insulin resistance). The blood needs to be shipped overnight. It may also depend on what your vet charges you for a blood draw.
Just to clarify what we mean by testing frequently.... First, look over the sticky notes at the top of the board. They will help you get your bearings here. There's a huge amount of information in the sticky notes and the learning curve can be rather steep. We use two systems for managing a cat's diabetes -- Tight Regulation Protocol (TR) or Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). TR is based on research and has been published in one of the leading feline veterinary journals. It has a great track record for getting newly diagnosed cats into remission. SLGS was developed here prior to there being any dosing protocols to follow and has also done well at getting cats regulated or into remission. TR is the more aggressive of the two approaches. You will want to read these methods through and decide what will work best for you and Polarbear.
With both of these methods, you need to get a test at pre-shot times. You also need to get at the very minimum, one additional test during both the AM and PM cycles. If you look at the spreadsheets that are attached to our signatures, you'll see that some of us (like me) are testaholics. Others do not test as frequently. With Lantus, dosing is based on the nadir (lowest number in the cycle). So, if you are only getting tests at pre-shot times, you may be missing low numbers. As Bobbi was suggesting with bounces, you can see a high pre-shot number, a drop to a point where a dose reduction is warranted by nadir, and a bounce back into the stratosphere by the next shot time. If you didn't test during the cycle, you miss the need for the reduction and because the pre-shot numbers are high, you end up increasing.
To be honest, we are very data oriented. There are several of us who have been here for quite some time and we rely on members' spreadsheets to understand how their cat is responding to insulin. Lantus and Levemir are very different from other types of insulin. If your vet has indicated that you should adjust the dose based on the pre-shot numbers, there's a good chance that your vet is more comfortable with other insulins like ProZinc (which is also a good insulin for cats). The mechanism is different for a depot type of insulin like Lantus vs ProZinc so the dosing approach is also different. Many vets treat all insulin the same.
Please let us know if you have questions. The people here are very generous with their time and knowledge. We would love to hep your get Polarbear to a better place.
BTW, the test for acro isn't that expensive. Perhaps with shipping costs (the test is run at the vet lab at Michigan State University) the amount is higher but the test for acromegaly (IGF- 1) is $55 and for insulin auto antibodies (IAA) is $17 (this latter test is for insulin resistance). The blood needs to be shipped overnight. It may also depend on what your vet charges you for a blood draw.
Hello and welcome from me too. My kitty had too high dose conditions, both acromegaly and IAA (insulin auto antibodies). She didn't get up to 10 units in dose, but we've had some get as high as 60 or even more twice a day. High dose cats need however much insulin they need. The latest research has shown that one in four diabetic cats has acromegaly, and from what you are describing, it is a possibility. The tests for acromegaly (called the IGF-1 test) and IAA are only done at Michigan State University in North America. Not sure where you are, but the tests do cost more if you are in Canada, like I am, but mostly due to the shipping costs. There is also the cost of a blood draw in there, so it's more than just the MSU test costs.
Most people don't get treatment done for acromegaly cause there is both cost of the treatment, and travel involved for most of the types of treatment. There is some research done on medical drugs that might help, but it's still in the research stage. The best way to help an acrocat is to safely increase to a dose that will help them by spending most of their time with the blood sugar under renal threshold which will give their kidneys a break. That's more or less around under 200. That will also help the litterbox issue. You can also surround the litter boxes with puppy pee pads to catch anything that falls over the edge. Have you tried Feliway plug ins? They can help with litter box issues. Getting him in blood sugar numbers will also make him feel better and feel more like playing. Testing, as the others have suggested, is key to increasing to a safe good dose.
Squalliesmom
Member Since 2015
Welcome to FDMB! I am glad you found us!
I am so sorry you have gotten so discouraged. Big (((hugs))). Please let us help you and Polarbear. It's not true that he can't get any better; cats are the only animal whose pancreas, which produces insulin, can repair itself! A small percentage of kitties even go into remission! We can help you get Polarbear better regulated so his pancreas can start to do some healing. I can't promise remission for him, but I can tell you that you can absolutely make his, and your, life easier and happier. I won't add any more advice at this point because you've already got enough to get started and we don't want you to feel overwhelmed. Please ask any questions you have, any time, there is no such thing as a stupid question here at FDMB and there are some extremely knowledgeable folks here to help you.
I am so sorry you have gotten so discouraged. Big (((hugs))). Please let us help you and Polarbear. It's not true that he can't get any better; cats are the only animal whose pancreas, which produces insulin, can repair itself! A small percentage of kitties even go into remission! We can help you get Polarbear better regulated so his pancreas can start to do some healing. I can't promise remission for him, but I can tell you that you can absolutely make his, and your, life easier and happier. I won't add any more advice at this point because you've already got enough to get started and we don't want you to feel overwhelmed. Please ask any questions you have, any time, there is no such thing as a stupid question here at FDMB and there are some extremely knowledgeable folks here to help you.
Supurrkitten
Member Since 2017
Listen to all these folks. I do not know what I would have done without them. You have been navigating these waters alone for a year, that is rough. This is an island and you can have a community of support here 24 hours a day. Don't give up hope yet. These folks will do so much for you it is amazing. I have never met people in real life so dedicated to helping cats.
I don't know how you found this board, but it is where you want to be.
"Do or Do not, there is no try." - Yoda, Star Wars
"If you are going through Hell... Keep going." - Anonymous
I don't know how you found this board, but it is where you want to be.
"Do or Do not, there is no try." - Yoda, Star Wars
"If you are going through Hell... Keep going." - Anonymous
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