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Matthew J

Matthew J

Member Since 2017
Help! Our 13 yr old furr-baby was recently diagnosed with advanced stage diabetes and we have been going through hell the last few weeks (not to mention a whole lot of cash) we have been giving him his insulin as prescribed and changed his food to prescription diet m/d and he's still not showing improvement.. after a check up at the vet he said his glucose levels are still too high so he increased his dose of insulin and we almost lost him from hyperglycaemia.. back to original dose, continues to loose weight even tho he's eating and drinking.. we fear if we don't get this under control we will not have him with us very much longer.. any suggestions???
 
Oh my! Don't worry, we have lots of suggestions that can help bring your kitty's diabetes under control-- it is an absolutely overwhelming diagnosis and disease at first, but it really is very manageable.

The very best thing you can do to start to get things under control is to learn to home-test for blood glucose levels. It's the best way to keep him safe and to figure out the correct dose. Often cats get stressed at the vet's office, which leads to high BG levels, which leads to a recommendation of a too-high dose. Once the cat gets back to the home environment, too much insulin leads to a dangerous crash, which you have already experienced. If you set the dose based on the everyday BG levels, it is much much safer. Also much cheaper!

Next thing: food. Needs to be low-carb, as cat's BG is highly food-influenced-- it is essentially impossible to control a cat's diabetes without addressing the food aspect. If you tell us which part of the world you are located in (UK?), we can give specific recommendations. The m/d canned is fine, the dry however is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat (plus we can recommend cheaper options!). Very important: do not change food before you start hometesting!!!!! When you go to a completely low-carb diet, insulin needs can drop precipitously and immediately-- you need to be monitoring to make sure that your kitty stays safe during this time.

You are in the best place you could possibly be. There are tons of very knowledgable people here, able to offer support and advice.
 
Hi Matthew. I'm sorry your boy is having a tough time.
The first step is to start home testing. My vet told me at the first vet visit when we adopted Morris that we need to get a meter and home test. He said the numbers are artificially inflated due to stress when done in the clinic. That we needed to base the dosage of insulin on the numbers we are getting at home. Not only will this keep your cat safe from a hypo event but you will also save $$ doing your own testing and curves.
Morris was started on m/d also but I never even finished the first case of food because it is actually too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. Technically you can feed it but then you have to give more insulin to counteract the higher carbs. This costs you more because of the higher cost for the food plus more money for insulin. There are many "grocery store" brands of food that are lower cards and less money.
The people on FDMB are great and can help you a lot. Hang in there. It will get better!
 
Hi Matthew!! Glad you made it over from the Facebook group and sorry I haven't had a few minutes to come by and welcome you!!

If your post starts to drop down the wall, please comment on it and it will bring it back to the top so you'll get more eyes on it!!
 
We did our first home test tonight and we got a reading of 33.3 after a meal.. we are giving him 2 units of Caninsulin twice per day when he eats..
 
I see that you live in Canada

You might want to consider changing to a more gentle and longer acting insulin than Canisulin.....it's mostly for dogs (thus the "cani" prefix) but a lot of vets use it because they are used to using it (they see more diabetic dogs than cats)

It tends to drop the blood glucose fast and early in the cycle and then wear off before the next shot time.

Lantus and Levemir are both human insulins available at any pharmacy and are both much gentler and longer acting. In Canada, they're over the counter too! You just have to ask for them! Here in the US, we have to have a script

We also have a spreadsheet we all use here to keep track of the numbers....It's a very valuable tool in our toolbox and we really depend on it.

Here are the Instructions for setting up the FDMB spreadsheet....since you're in Canada, you'd use the "World" spreadsheet using a human meter (I know you have a One Touch Verio IQ meter)

Another key to getting the best results possible (On any insulin) is reducing the amount of carbs the cat is eating. A lot of our Canadian members feed the Fancy Feast "Pates" that are all low carb and fine for diabetics (but there are other foods available too)

As long as you're able to test, you can start transitioning off the higher carb foods and on to a low carb food.....it's just like human diabetics....if they keep eating potato chips, they're never going to get much better and will require larger amounts of medication......the one big difference in cats though is that they have the unique ability to have their pancreas heal and resume working again!! But to give it the best chance at healing, you need to restrict the workload (less carbs) and use the insulin to give the pancreas a "break" to do it's healing

Not all cats can go into remission, but a good low carb diet and a good insulin will give you the best chances!!
 
Ok second time testing went a whole lot smoother than the first time thanks to all of you and your hot tips and advice... we got a reading of 33.3 yesterday (after meal on 2 units of Caninsulin) this morning his reading dropped a bit to 32.6 (after meal on 3 units of Caninsulin) we have removed the dry food from his breakfast also and will try only wet food today to see how it goes.. Question tonight should we do the reading before his next injection, after or both???
 
For safety, you always want to test before you shoot, especially with an insulin like Caninsulin and a dose of 3U-- if you shoot, and then it turns out he was too low, it could be very dangerous (Caninsulin acts fast, and can produce dramatic drops).

Now that you've got testing down :), please do get some mid-cycle tests in today. As mentioned before, changing the food to low-carb can have a dramatic effect on BG numbers-- to keep him safe you need to know what is going on between shots to make sure he isn't going super-low. I really can't emphasize this enough.

The low point of Caninsulin is generally somewhere around 4-6 hrs after the shot, so if you can get a test in around that time that would be great. If it's possible to get something before then, too, around 2-3 hrs after the shot, that can give you an early warning of any big drops.

Congrats on the testing success!
 
Nice! Congrats on the testing. Generally you test before the am food and insulin injection and again just before the pm food and injection. You don't feed any food the two hours before each test. These numbers , AMPS (AM pre shot) and PMPS let you know if your boy's BG is high enough to safely give any insulin. They also let you track how he is responding in general. I do not know about Caninsulin as I use a different insulin. On mine, Prozinc, we also try to grab a mid cycle number to show how low the dose of insulin is dropping the BG. This mid cycle number is just as important for us in determining what dosage of insulin to give.

Since you are changing his diet to a lower carb one you will definitely want to stay on top of the testing. Chris mentioned the spreadsheet we use to track the numbers. You'll really like it once you start using it.
 
Hi Matthew. I suggest you transition to wet food slowly over a period of a week or so by lessening the amount of dry food each day rather than withdrawing it all in one day. The switch to wet food from dry can have a very dramatic effect on the BG levels and the dose of insulin is likely going to have to be reduced. With Caninsulin where drops in BG can be fairly quick and dramatic, making food changes gradually will allow you to adjust as you go without any big and possibly scary surprises. It also lessens the possibility of any GI upset. Slow and steady wins the race in this game whether it be diet or insulin dose changes.
 
Hi Matthew. Had forgotten my password here.
Wow! Great job getting your first bg!

I would suggest finding how low Jaxson is dropping on his current dose before removing his dry food...especially if no one is home watching him. It might be best to wait until you or someone else is watching him if you are going to completely remove the dry suddenly. His dose is dependant on his diet...lowering carbs can have the same effect as increasing insulin. Take it slow, and try to do it while your able to check his bg, or at least while someone is able to keep an eye on him. I'm assuming you're not home in the day...one of you're posts mentioned that you leave dry food out for him in the day.

There are 2 numbers that are very important to find. His pre shot number...before food and insulin. And his low number (the most important number)...every cat will hit their low point (this is referred to as nadir) at a different number of hours after their insulin, and different insulins will have different effects. This number is usually found by running a curve test (especially if you are not home to be able to spot check through the day). There are different ways to run curve tests over different periods of time, but the most common seems to be a 12 hour curve...testing every 2 hours for 12 hours...beginning with preshot, ending with preshot. Keep in mind food will bring bgs (blood glucose) up...so you will want to note any food intake during the test. Curve tests seem to be more reliable if done during the day...there are some factors that make night time curves wonky, and unreliable. Most vets will remove food when they run a curve test...I can't do this...most people seem to recommend they eat normally through their curve test. A lot of info and "trends" can be caught through a curve test too...to help you know how the insulin is effecting Jaxson.

I'm not pushing you to do this immediately, you may want to start with some preshot tests (this is something you will want to get used to doing before every injection, best to test before the food before the injection) to get used to testing first, if you can do some spot checks at times mentioned above will help you get an idea of how low he might be going...it's just the next step to obtaining the info you're going to need to help Jaxson. I would ask questions about curve tests...just to be sure you get the best info on it...and the more advice you get from different people, the more confident you will get with what you are doing.

I don't know much about caninsulin...we used lantus. There are people here on the fdmb that will be able to help you understand the numbers, and the patterns you will see with caninsulin. I can't guide you with insulins, or doses...I just don't know enough (dosing suggestions specifically are not usually allowed on the Facebook page, that kind of recommendations is best given on the message board where there are multiple experienced people watching and giving advise in case someone giving you advise has missed something and may not be giving you good advice)(and still educating yourself, so you can make good informed choices is your best way through this. You know Jaxson better than anyone else here)...just trying to help you get started on getting the info specific to Jaxson that will help you help him...his numbers will show how he's reacting to the insulin and dose...from there you will be able to help him more and more!
You are on your way! The first BG reading is a milestone for diabetes! Great job!
 
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Completed first pre test tonight and got a reading of 33.3 again pre-meal, pre-shot.. just gave him his 3u of Caninsulin and will test again in an hour to see where we're at.. I attached a pic of Jaxson also he's so skinny and frail it breaks my heart...
IMG_5575.JPG
 
He looks a lot like China did when we first started (picture in her Profile in my signature)

It's heartbreaking but once you get some better control, he should start to gain back some weight
 
Poor fellow, he looks like my cat Coco Bolo except for weight difference. I sure hope he gets healthy again. It's great that you are able to test BG easily as it's so important with diabetes. I can only offer encouragement not advice because i'm very new to this also. Lots of good info on this board if you can find time to read through some if the old posts. There's also a forum on caninsulin/Vetsulin that you may want to look at. That's what my cat Smokey is taking.
Best of luck, Dhana
 
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