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Brittney

Member Since 2016
Am I totally crazy to come home from the vet and hear that my cat has diabetes and NOT want to start her on insulin? Has anyone ever just made dramatic changes in their cats diet FIRST before starting insulin? Emmy is urinating more volume than normal and she has lost some weight (although she was overweight so she is not too thin). She's happy, and bright eyed, and energetic and I am SCARED to death that starting this radical treatment of insulin shots 2x a day, and a weekly, full- day at the vet for them to test her levels etc, seems like it will just freak her out and make her emotionally distressed (she is a very shy skittish cat and being around anyone freaks her out a LOT).

I know I am ignorant, I am not a doctor, I don't have a medical degree, I have tried to goole search as much as I can but I don't have very much time to make a decision on how to start her treatment. I feel skeptical of the vets advice and not sure what's best for my Emmy and what is best for the vets pocket. Just to diagnosis her today with Diabetes cost $600 in blood tests, urine test, glucose spot check, office visit etc.

Please tell me anything you have to offer here from your experience.
 
Hi, Brittney. Welcome to you and little Emmy.

First up, you've found a great place to get help.

The prospect of giving insulin can be very scary and overwhelming to contemplate but it is definitely do-able once one gets over the initial shock. :bighug:

Can you give us a little bit more information:

1. Did your vet check Emmy for ketones? If yes, what was the result?

2. How high is her blood glucose level?

3. What diet is she currently eating?

4. Has the vet recommended a different diet? If yes, please let us know which food.

5. Which country are you located in?

6. What has the vet advised you about in terms of starting insulin treatment?


Mogs
.
 
I hope you'll answer Mog's questions as they will help us help you.

But just a quick reassurance, you can test your kitty's blood glucose levels at home, eliminate those scary trips to the vet and stay on top of her doses and levels, keeping her safe. Some people do change diet before starting insulin - if the levels are in the lower ranges. If they are high, it may be wise to start it sooner rather than later.
 
Thanks for your message Mogs, it's already a relief just to know I can tell someone this.

I guess this is a lot of my problem. The vet told me her glucose test was "very high" and the preliminary urine test also showed a definite positive diagnosis for diabetes. She started talking about ordering insulin for 2x daily injections, prescription food, and that she would show me how to inject etc. and to be completely honest I started crying, broke out in a sweat and had to leave so that I could make it home before having a total melt down. She said the more detailed blood work and UA test results would be ready tomorrow, and I plan to call her tonight with my husband (who is much more calm cool and collected than I am) to have another conversation about treatment plan- which is why I am trying to educate myself as much as possible on our options before then. So to answer your questions: I don't really have any specific answers:

1) There was a ketone test but I do not have the results.

2) according to the vet her spot glucose test was "very high" but this is in regards to figuring out what was wrong with her so that's relative.

3) About 8 months ago I switched my two cats from a diet that consisted of free-feeding with kibbles and bits, and a 1/4 can each of fancy feast wet food at night, to the same process but with "Natures instict grain free healthy weight dry food", and "fussy cat ocean fish wet food" . My dominate male has always made feeding really hard on my skittish female which is why free feeding has worked for us. Both cats put on weight when we moved across the country and I made this switch in their food after realizing I was feeding them "junk food" and wanting them to have healthier more nutritious food.

4) the vet said right away to end dry food and switch to only wet food, a prescription diabetes food 2x a day (she was out of food and had to order it so I don't have the exact name but I believe it's science diet).

5) Los Angeles, CA USA

6) The vet said start insulin 2x a day with injections, bring the cat into the vet 1x per week to monitor dips in blood sugar to help make adjustments in the dose until we regulate. Does anybody use alternate forms of insulin? like in the food etc?

Additional: I will do anything for this cat. I would literally run into a burning building to save her, I will drain my life savings before even considering PTS, and even then I would rather become homeless together on the street then lose her (okay yes this is dramatic) but my reason for saying all of this is to make sure I get the point across that I want what's best for her and I'm not suggesting that no treatment for the sake of being selfish financially or emotionally. She's sitting on my lap right now- the same baby I have had for ten years nothing at all seems off or wrong with her, she's so happy, and cheerful and I guess I am just scared of what will happen when I take this dramatic step to introduce insulin into her body 2x day, and start forcing her on weekly car rides, and loud vet appointments, and pricks and needles.

Hopefully I will know exact numbers tomorrow.
 
Brittney, we completely understand your anxiety but at this point the best thing you can do is stop and b r e e a a t h e. Feline diabetes is quite common and very treatable for a dedicated care-giver - which you very obviously are. If you take some time to read the Stickies on this board giving you the basics of FD, you will see how it all works. It may take a short while to get your head round it all but really - we have ALL been where you are now and this board is testament to the efforts of owners of healthy kitties around the world.

So that's my suggestion - acquaint yourself with the basic theory, talk to the vet about specific treatment, then come back here and ask any questions. It IS a journey, for sure, but those of us who care so much about our kitties do what is needed willingly and to the best of our ability, and I know you'll take on board what's needed to bring your baby back to good health.

Wishing you the very best!

Diana
 
Welcome Brittany and extra sweet Emmy! Oh how I remember that melt-down. I think the majority of us did the same thing so you're definitely not alone! Diabetes is definitely a treatable condition - after getting the basic steps of the sugar dance under your belt, you'll find it's SO much easier than you think it is right now. If it were hard, we wouldn't have adopted Dakota, that cute guy as my avatar already diabetic when we already had our 'extra sweet' KT.

HUGS and HUGS and yep, BREATHE!!!! If this MAJOR needlephobic can learn to give shots, pokies and everything needed then anyone can. Heck, I literally fainted when they were going to draw blood from me and I saw the needle first....doctor didn't believe me until he had to pick me up off the floor.
 
Thank you to all of you for the support. You're right, I need to BREATHE. I think a lot of my confusion stems from my lack of understanding in the science/biology field. I've spent the last hour reading the pinned articles understanding what's happening in the body (cellular function) which has helped me feel more in control already. My questions for you now:

1. Stress induced BGC's? I mentioned Emmy is very very skittish.. (one time she pee'd on my lap when she heard a door slam down the hallway...) This is a big concern for me with her in the clinical setting. Has anyone else had a big issue with this?

2. when you all found out your baby had diabetes, did you immediately start insulin (like same day?) has anyone done a food switch (off of dry and totally onto recommended wet) for a few days before starting insulin, to see how that effected the levels?

3. Those of you with multiple cats. My other cat is a 18lb. Male. He is huge, and although he is a big cat, he is on the heavier side of healthy weight. Since I will be switching Emmy over to this new food, I think I should switch them both over. Would love to hear any opinions on this?

THANK YOU for being here for me.
 
Please know you are not alone. When my cat was diagnosed in May I was devistated. I literally cried on and off for the next 12 hours. No joke. There is so much to learn and get used to that first week. It gets so much easier.

And cats can possibly go into remission. My cat did after four months of treatment.


Your best course of action is #1 switch to all wet Fancy Feast classic foods. Grain free doesn't mean carb free. If your cat is a kibble lover like mine there is an awesome food you can only buy online called Young Again Zero carb. You can ask them for a free sample at Youngagainpetfood.com

#2 get a glucose meter and do readings and curves from home. It will save you the money and your cat the stress of office visits. I use the Alphatrak 2 meter because I like having the same one as my vet, but of cost is a concern most here use a human Relion meter.


You can do this, I promise. And when your cat starts feeling better in a few weeks it will all be worth it.
 
Hi Brittney! I'm sure this diagnosis is overwhelming--Winnie was already diabetic when I adopted her, and I felt overwhelmed by all the info with weeks to prepare!--but you're in a great place for advice.

Stress at the vet could have driven Emmy's numbers up. Before I switched Winnie to a cats-only vet, she would go up 100+ points when she had to deal with dogs in the waiting room. That's why it's so important to home test Emmy's BG, so you can figure out her "real" numbers when she's calm and at home. Otherwise, a vet-recommended insulin dose based on a curve at the vet could be too high.
Home testing was probably the most frustrating thing to learn, but it was well worth it, and now it's second nature for both Winnie and me. This site has a ton of very helpful guides.

For your second question, Winnie was diagnosed in foster care. The vet did a food switch for a week before starting insulin, just switching to Fancy Feast Classic (no need for the fancy prescription diet! although some people have had problems with FF recently, but we haven't). It brought her down from 415 to 300, and then they started insulin. If Emmy has ketones, though, starting insulin is more urgent.

Finally, I think it would be much easier to switch them both at the same time, since that prevents Emmy from getting into high carb food. Talk to your vet about what portions/calories to give your other cat to have him lose weight at a healthy pace.

You and Emmy are going to be just fine! You can do this!
 
Brittney, BREATHE. When first hearing dx it is very overwhelming. Diabetes is much easier to manage and treat then some of the other stuff.

You don't need prescription food. Wet pate or classic is fine. Small frequent meals throughout the day is fine and actually better than just 2 meals a day. Fancy feast is a popular one here. Dry food should be eliminated. BUT you need to home test if you are already giving insulin before removing it.

Some people do try diet first, while waiting for their insulin to arrive (better prices in Canada) but you need the vet to write a script.

We can advise towards the most affordable places to get insulin, syringes, meters, strips and all feline diabetic supplies. There are many tips as to feeding, scheduling, especially if you work or go out and not sure what to do.

Once you have your follow-up at the vets, come back here and let us know how you are going to treat. It's a good idea to get copies of the records especially the lab work.
 
Diabetes is very treatable. It is a good idea to start by changing food to low carb or a raw food diet before starting insulin. There are lots of good low carb foofs at the stores. You don't need expensive prescription food.
The first thing you need to do is to buy a human glucose meter. That way you can do the testing at home. It's been shown that the stress of going to the vet can raise the BG 100-200 points. Take some time to read the different forums here. There is so much to learn. Welcome to our group.
 
Brittney we are in the same boat! My cat Malcomb is about 12, had been quite over weight and suddenly things started happening and I had a sinking feeling diabetes could be why. Well, that was confirmed and today vet office said they will order insulin and then want me to come in to learn how to do shots. Then when I asked about monitoring blood sugar I was told a few weeks after starting insulin I would need to leave him for a day to check over blood sugar. Money is a huge issue for me but I want to do what is right of course. And I will have to somehow afford this. I don't even have a credit card to throw it on! Anyhow, I certainly understand your stress, Malcomb cried all the way to the vet and wet in the cage. I feel very worried and overwhelmed but keep telling myself I CAN DO THIS! Probably more so if I find a part time job to add to my hours! Anyhow, good luck, at least there is great support here and that means a lot!
 
You are in good hands here. And you can handle this. When my first kitty was diagnosed in Feb 2014, I was overwhelmed and a mess. I cried everyday. I didn't think I could test or give injections. But I learned how to do it. And in fact last June I adopted a cat knowing she was diabetic. So now I have two diabetic cats. I test both of them every day and give injections every day.

Yes, you have a lot to learn but you will learn it and you will get tons of help and support here.

You are going to amaze yourself!
 
Hi Brittney,

As mentioned above some people do switch to low carb food before starting insulin BUT contrary to some of the suggestions given above it is NOT always a good approach to delay start of insulin treatment in order to do any required diet change first; the decision as to when to initiate insulin treatment must be based on a holistic assessment of the cat's diabetic and overall health status.

Food transitions need to be done gradually over several days to reduce risk of GI upsets. Nausea and inappetence are a problem for any cat because of how the feline metabolism works but for diabetics it is even more important that they keep eating regularly (their bodies are already struggling to use nutrients properly). Also, depending on the cat it may take a few weeks to complete the food transition.

Given that the food transition could take a bit of time, sometimes it is not appropriate to wait to start giving insulin. Delaying treatment can lead to greater risk of a diabetic starting to produce ketones. (Not to scare but to inform you - presence of ketones can quickly lead to a cat developing diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially life-threatening complication of diabetes.)

Diabetic cats are at greater risk of developing ketones:

1. If the cat's BG is in a high range. (Your vet should have done a fructosamine test as part of his diagnostics to check Emmy's average BG over the last few weeks to get a better picture of her diabetic status. This test result won't be affected by vet stress.)

2. If any infections or other illnesses are present at time of Dx.

3. If the cat is underweight.

4. If the cat's appetite is questionable. (If any signs of nausea these need prompt treatment.)

If the cat is already producing ketones then insulin treatment should be started straight away in a clinical setting until the cat is clear of ketones and stable.

Armed with all the test results, your vets should be able to give you a fuller picture of Emmy's status when next you meet and then you will be able to make a better informed decision about when Emmy needs to start her insulin treatment. (Tip: Bring an orange with you to the injection tutorial; they're great to practice on - far less scary than trying it first on your kitty!)

For some cats the diet change alone can be enough to tip them into remission (i.e. a cat whose blood glucose levels can be controlled with low carb food and who does not need daily insulin injections). However, most cats who have been eating a diet too high in carbs prior to diagnosis (Dx) typically need both the food change and insulin at start of treatment.

The choice of insulin can have a significant influence over the cat's chance of achieving remission. According to the findings of the Roomp-Rand study newly diagnosed feline diabetics stand the greatest chance of remission when treated with long-acting insulins (Lantus or Levemir). These insulins are quite expensive in the US but they can be purchased much cheaper from Canada with a written Rx from your vet (details here).

Key to successful treatment is to not start at too high an insulin dose and to make dose adjustments in small increments (e.g. with Lantus the recommended starting dose is 0.25 IU per kg of ideal weight unless the cat is underweight in which case the dose is based on the cat's actual weight at time of Dx; dose adjustments are done in increments of 0.25IU.) It takes a bit of time to regulate a cat but the 'low and slow' approach to insulin treatment is generally the safest and most effective way of hitting a 'good dose'. Some vets increase the dose too quickly (e.g. by 1 IU at a time) and this can result in 'skipping over' the dose that would best suit the kitty at that point in its treatment (and which may actually result in BG numbers going higher and therefore impede progress toward good regulation).

As others have already advised, home BG testing is the best thing you can do to keep Emmy safe on insulin. Some vets advocate home testing, some are completely against it. Emmy is your cat; you get to make the decisions about how to monitor her during treatment. Home BG testing will also give you much better information on how Emmy responds to insulin treatment and how effective the dosing is for her. Home testing will spare Emmy the stress of unnecessary vet trips for curves and will give BG readings that are true to Emmy's everyday BG status in the home setting, not falsely elevated by vet/travel stress. Home-run curves therefore provide a sounder basis upon which to determine effective, safe insulin dosage. Recording BG test results using the FDMB spreadsheet will also help you to track the safety and effectiveness of each insulin dose, and will thus be a great aid to you and your vet as you work to improve Emmy's regulation.

When you go to pick up a glucometer and test strips be sure to pick up some urine test strips for monitoring ketones at home (e.g. Keto-diastix). I would recommend daily ketone testing - especially in the early days. Many US members recommend Walmart's Relion Micro and Confirm meters. They only require a small blood sample and the test strips are affordable. Human meters need to be used with a cat-specific glucose reference range. We can provide you with details here when you need them. More suggestions on which supplies to purchase can be found in the hypo toolbox forum sticky. Be sure you have honey, karo, or liquid glucose in the house.

Healthy, non-diabetic cats (civvies as we call them!) can also benefit greatly by switching to a species-appropriate, low carb diet. The best site on the web for information on the fundamentals of good feline nutrition is vet-authored site catinfo.org. We also have food lists here which give info on carb level (and, I think, phosphorus levels) for a broad range of commercial cat foods. Most members here seem to opt for Fancy Feast Classics patés and, IIRC, Friskies patés. A few tins of FF gravy lovers are useful additions to a hypo toolbox.

Once a cat has started insulin treatment then no food change should be attempted unless the cat is undergoing daily home BG monitoring and only when you are in a position to monitor BG closely during the transition (e.g. over a weekend). The switch to low carb food may quickly and significantly lower BG levels and therefore the insulin dose would very likely need to be adjusted downwards (fewer incoming carbs for the insulin to work on). There is more reading about safely transitioning insulin-treated cats to a diabetic-friendly diet on catinfo.org's feline diabetes page.


Mogs
.
 
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Brittney we are in the same boat! My cat Malcomb is about 12, had been quite over weight and suddenly things started happening and I had a sinking feeling diabetes could be why. Well, that was confirmed and today vet office said they will order insulin and then want me to come in to learn how to do shots. Then when I asked about monitoring blood sugar I was told a few weeks after starting insulin I would need to leave him for a day to check over blood sugar. Money is a huge issue for me but I want to do what is right of course. And I will have to somehow afford this. I don't even have a credit card to throw it on! Anyhow, I certainly understand your stress, Malcomb cried all the way to the vet and wet in the cage. I feel very worried and overwhelmed but keep telling myself I CAN DO THIS! Probably more so if I find a part time job to add to my hours! Anyhow, good luck, at least there is great support here and that means a lot!

@My cat Mal

Hi, If you start your own thread we can help you with anything from best place to get insulin to how to get urine sample if you need to.

There is a charge card called Care Credit that's great for pets. Your vet must accept it though so ask them. Each charge is interest free for 6 months if charge is over $200. It's been a life saver for me this year. I'm still paying off May and June's. And no interest. I had to use it September and October. It never seems to be zero lately. And some human doctors like eyes and dentists accept it. It was great for my glasses.
 
Hi,

I just finally heard back from the vet. She said that Emmy has elevated liver and pancreas enzymes but nothing that's "unexpected" with a diabetes diagnosis. She wasn't able to send me the actual labs (until tomorrow). She strongly recommended starting insulin today and is suggesting two units of Glargine as a starting dose.

I feel VERY nervous about this. I wanted to get Emmy adjusted to an all wet food diet for a few days before starting insulin as I have read from multiple sources the dangers of adjusting food and insulin at the same time. Additionally, I feel uneasy about this recommended dose of 2 units. I told her I wanted to start very small with the dose and her response was "this is a very standard starting dose that I recommend." As far as delaying the start of the Insulin she just thinks that the food change and insulin start are not a big deal. I am taking Emmy back to her this evening to learn how to administer the insulin, and learn how to use the BG monitor (I bought the one from Walmart that many people here suggested).

I am so torn between listening to what the doctor is telling me to do and trusting her, and making my own choice based off of things I've read on the internet.

Negative results for Keytones, and BG level from yesterday were in the mid 400's.
 
Hi,

I just finally heard back from the vet. She said that Emmy has elevated liver and pancreas enzymes but nothing that's "unexpected" with a diabetes diagnosis. She wasn't able to send me the actual labs (until tomorrow). She strongly recommended starting insulin today and is suggesting two units of Glargine as a starting dose.

I feel VERY nervous about this. I wanted to get Emmy adjusted to an all wet food diet for a few days before starting insulin as I have read from multiple sources the dangers of adjusting food and insulin at the same time. Additionally, I feel uneasy about this recommended dose of 2 units. I told her I wanted to start very small with the dose and her response was "this is a very standard starting dose that I recommend." As far as delaying the start of the Insulin she just thinks that the food change and insulin start are not a big deal. I am taking Emmy back to her this evening to learn how to administer the insulin, and learn how to use the BG monitor (I bought the one from Walmart that many people here suggested).

I am so torn between listening to what the doctor is telling me to do and trusting her, and making my own choice based off of things I've read on the internet.

Negative results for Keytones, and BG level from yesterday were in the mid 400's.
I would start the insulin right away. Are you going to test at home? If you are worried do 1 unit as you transition to wet, but I strongly suggest testing at home so you'll know if it's enough.
 
Does anyone know where


Emmy weighs 14 lbs.
we started a dramatic food transition yesterday under the Vet's advice. From free feed dry food (natures instinct grain free) with very small portion of fussy cat ocean fish wet food (1/4 of a small can 1x daily) ------------> to wet only FFC x2 a day approx 300 calories per day
 
Emmy weighs 14 lbs.
The following is intended as a comparative guide for information only. I am not a vet. It is NOT dosing advice.

Roomp-Rand Tight Regulation Protocol (TRP) starting dose calculation would be as follows:

TR Protocol starting dose recommendation for Lantus (insulin glargine) = 0.25 IU per kg if BG as measured on human glucometer is less than 360mg/dL (based on cat's ideal weight UNLESS cat is underweight in which case current weight is used as basis for dose calculation).

Based on an assumption of ideal weight and BG <360mg/dL (human meter), starting dose for 14lb/6.36kg cat on TRP would be 6.36 x 0.25 = 1.6IU Lantus (probably rounded down to 1.5IU).


Mogs
.
 
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we started a dramatic food transition yesterday under the Vet's advice. From free feed dry food (natures instinct grain free) with very small portion of fussy cat ocean fish wet food (1/4 of a small can 1x daily) ------------> to wet only FFC x2 a day approx 300 calories per day
As far as delaying the start of the Insulin she just thinks that the food change and insulin start are not a big deal.
Are you home testing yet?

If not, Roomp-Rand study recommends a starting dose of 1.0 IU BID (for cats not previously treated with another insulin).

I've attached a PDF file with the published, peer-reviewed Roomp-Rand study at the end of this post. I suggest printing it out, discussing it with your vet and perhaps leaving her a copy for her to study in her own time.

Also here is a link to the article on Feline Diabetes from Dr Pierson's vet-authored site, catinfo.org, discussing safety concerns about transitioning diets in diabetics:

catinfo.org Feline Diabetes Page

The above article discusses the issues that must be considered when transitioning the diet of a diabetic cat receiving insulin.

Maybe it might be an idea to print out copies of both of these documents to use as a basis for discussion about treatment approach with your vet. The authors are qualified veterinary professionals so they don't fall into the 'stuff wot I found on the internet' trap. They merit serious consideration.


Mogs
.
 

Attachments

The vet tonight decided to change initial starting dose to 1u (which makes me happy) after our BG test was 248 at the vet on my monitor and 311 on hers. (yesterday before changing to wet food it was 413). Tonight, 3 hours after the vet tested, I tested her again before dinner 238, and 1 hour post dinner 234.

This seems strange to me? I was expecting these numbers to jump or change after her meal or be higher than this (aren't these somewhat "normal" readings for a cat?) we have NOT started insulin yet.
 
The vet tonight decided to change initial starting dose to 1u (which makes me happy) after our BG test was 248 at the vet on my monitor and 311 on hers. (yesterday before changing to wet food it was 413). Tonight, 3 hours after the vet tested, I tested her again before dinner 238, and 1 hour post dinner 234.

This seems strange to me? I was expecting these numbers to jump or change after her meal or be higher than this (aren't these somewhat "normal" readings for a cat?) we have NOT started insulin yet.
Are you using a pet meter or human meter. Those are much better numbers, but still above normal. I'm glad she lowered the dose, and I'm super glad to see you are home testing! Well done!
 
The vet tonight decided to change initial starting dose to 1u (which makes me happy) after our BG test was 248 at the vet on my monitor and 311 on hers. (yesterday before changing to wet food it was 413). Tonight, 3 hours after the vet tested, I tested her again before dinner 238, and 1 hour post dinner 234.

This seems strange to me? I was expecting these numbers to jump or change after her meal or be higher than this (aren't these somewhat "normal" readings for a cat?) we have NOT started insulin yet.
Way to go Emmy! And way to go Brittney for figuring out testing so quickly!
"Normal" for a cat on a human meter will be anywhere from 50 to 120. 200s is still higher than we'd like, and it's hovering around the renal threshold, but it's much better than 400s!
Someone else may be able to contribute on whether Emmy's numbers should be higher post-meal. Winnie usually spikes pretty quickly after eating. It may be that Emmy's pancreas is still doing some work, even if it isn't at full capacity.

How is Emmy doing today? And how are you hanging in there? You're doing great :bighug:
 
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