help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat Mya

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kphowe

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Hello I am a new poster. I posted on the health forum and was invited to post on this forum since my cat is on PZI. The cat I have is a stray cat, that walked into the petstore that my daughter works at. This was back in Oct 2011. Mya was very sick when she was seen by the vet, she only weighed 6lbs and had an infected uterus that needed to be removed right away. The vet was unsure of her age, but felt she was older. My daughter took her home, and was feeding her dry food. Mya's weight increased to 9lbs, but then she began to vomit and loose wt again, back down to 6 lbs. On Jan 26th she was diagnosed with diabetes BG 400, her liver was also enlarged. The vet prescribed canned hills w/d and PZI insulin 1 unit bid. I took Mya home with me this time. It took 3 days to get the insulin as it had to be compounded. Her sugars for me have been consistently high 300 s to 400's. I read the book Raising Cats Naturally and decieded to change her and my other cats to a raw diet. I started feeding raw on Jan 30, This was comercial "Natural Instinct" chicken flavor. I then bought a meat grinder, but was only able to make one batch, befor the grinder broke. So Mya was fed homemade raw for about 7 days, then it was back to the comercial raw. Mya has gained wt she is almost 8 lbs. no more vomiting and playful. However her sugars had been unchannged. The first curve I did required me to up the dose of insulin to 1.5 u, this was on 2/18. On 2/27 Mya's AM her sugar was 109, so I held her insulin but feed her the same amount of raw food as usual. That PM her sugar was 369, so I gave her the full 1.5 u. The next morning her sugar was 89 ( fed her a little more than normal) and again held her insulin. The pm sugar was then 417, so I decreased her insulin to 1.25 In case of somogyi effect. I felt like we were moving in the right direction when her sugars were low in the am, but now I do not know what direction to go. I did reduce her Insulin dose back to 1 U as of 2/29. I have also repeated the curve this weekend. As of 3/4 All my cats are back on the homemade raw diet (New grinder that can grind bones). If anyone has any advice to offer I would love some. I have attached my spread sheet. I just got it up and have put in all the numbers from 2/18. Also Mya eats about 2 oz twice a day.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hi and Welcome!

I responded to your posts on Health. Glad you are here. I am glad you lowered the dose so you could shoot twice daily and not skip.

Your curve today looks very nice - blues all day long! The evening number is high but is likely a bounce as she hasn't seen that many blues before.

I would stick with the one unit for a few more cycles and see how she does. If you want, post daily with your numbers so we can get to know you and Mya. There is a breakfast club am east coast time when people post, and again it's busy about this time in the pm.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hi And Welcome!
Glad you came here and we look forward to getting to know you and Mya better
What is your name....
I took a peak at your SS
great job....
The only thought that I had was maybe since you are now feeding a raw diet
that maybe one unit could be too much
I was thinking maybe drop to .50 for one cycle to see how she does
and maybe that will help you gt a better idea of what to do
In lloking at the SS her preshots are mostly pink and red
so I am thinking maybe she is going too low during the day then boucing high at pmps
Just my thoughts...
I look forward to getting to know you both!

Denise and Shakes
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Howdy and welcome to PZIville! cat_pet_icon

If you haven't figured it out yet, you're going to meet tons of great folks here! One of the things I like best? All the wonderful folks freely sharing their experience! It's fantastic!

One of the greatest suggestions I've received here? Breath. :lol: It's so easy to forget, getting all wrapped up in caring for our fuzzy loves, ya know?

I know you were asking about dosing. I tend to be a bit heavy handed with dosing so I'll let those less heavy handed deal with dosing suggestions. ;-)

Don't hesitate to ask questions. We're all here to help our kitties. :-D
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hi and Welcome to out little corner of FDMB.

I'm going to agree with Denise and think you should reduce your dose to .5u so you can stop the big swinging up and down, and be able to shoot 12/12.

I look forward to getting to know you.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Welcome to PZI land :)
I'm Donna and my sugar kitty is Asher. Your first name is? Sorry if I missed that over on Health, I don't get there as often as I should.
We look forward to getting to know you and your kitty
:YMHUG:
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hello from Jenn & Baxter we live in Houston, Texas.
I am not one to help with dosing, but I sure know how to be a cheerleader :RAHCAT.

When I made my homemade food. I used my mini cupcake/muffin/brownie bite pan. It has 24 2oz molds. I would pure the food in there & freeze it. Pop them out & store it in larger freezer ziploc bags. It took up less room in my freezer then containers.


If you have any questions just ask & you will get answers. ;-)
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hi KP and welcome!

I'm Lu-Ann and my boy is Grayson.

Like you, in the beginning we were having some marathon cycles for a while... we ended up reducing his dose several times, which helped put him into more of a 12 hour cycle. Since then it's been increased again, as he wasn't getting enough insulin. Sometimes it takes the kitties (and us) a little while to find their rhythm. Once we do, you'll see a nice graphic curve from your numbers. In the meantime, it may be a little crazy.

I commend you for doing the raw - I don't cook much, so Grayson gets what Fancy Feast makes! ;-)

We look forward to seeing you around the board - post any questions, and if you'd like to, most of us do a daily update of our little ones' progress.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Thank You everyone for your replies, I am grateful for any and all help I can get. Sorry I was unableto reply last pm, but I had to take my dog to the vets. So Mya's sugar this am was 379. but than at hour +4 she was 186. We have a vet visit tonight and I have a feeling she will want to increase it again. I want to try another curve this weekend. Oh and my name is Karen sorry for not saying that earlier. I work full time M-F so it is difficult to check mid day unless it is a weekend, so I try to do at least 1-2 checks after her pm dose. I am going to order some syringes with 1/2 doseing to see if that will help. Also I was looking at some of your SS and noticed 2F I think for 2 units into the fat, is that correct? I know the absorbtion is different in the fat as opposed to sub Q tissue. I am torn with her AM sugars still being high, but I know Mya is not the only kitty this is hapening too. I guess I can be thankful that she seems to be acting normal. She does however have some sneezing, and her breath is bad, so I was going to see about getting her a dental cleaning and maybe some Lysine. One of my cats had the herpes virus when he was 3 months old ( he is now 2) but I know they can still shed the virus and if Mya's imune system is at all compromised she could easily contract it.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Pay really close attention to Mya's breath. Does it smell like acetone or nail polish remover? Or sweet, almost fruity? I know my breath gets bad if I get a cold. But since she's sneezing too, that could be a concern.

With one or both of the above conditions, you need to check for ketones, as those can be symptoms. Ketones need to be caught early to prevent her from going into DKA - extremely hard on a cat, and expensive to treat. Testing is real simple and inexpensive: You get a bottle of ketostix at the pharmacy ($10 at Walgreens, $6 at Walmart), and hold the test strip under their urine stream. Grayson makes big pee pies, so if you don't catch it from the stream, you can dip the stick into the "pond" of urine. Other tricks to capture urine - will elaborate if you need us to. Compare the color of the strip to the scale on the bottle. If it's more than a trace, you need to check w/ your vet.

This is something that can come up fast, and if you catch it quickly, it will be to everyone's advantage. Testing for ketones is being proactive for the health of your baby!

Good luck!
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Glad to see you back, Karen.

Lu has you well covered on ketones.

2f means a fat dose of 2 units - a smidgen (scientific term :mrgreen: )more than 2

A drop to 186 at +4 shows the insulin is working. If she were my cat, I would stall until the weekend when I could get a curve, before changing dosage. Too much insulin is more dangerous much faster than too little.

Meanwhile, any tests you can get are valuable data. As you go out the door, in the door, before bed.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

So Mya had a vet visit last night and all was well, no fruity breath, or signs of DKA, just needs a dental. But we have to wait 2 more months so she can put on some more weight. she is up to 7.9lbs now yah....... her ideal weight would be 9.2lbs. I let the vet know that I had decreased her back to1 unit because she had dropped to low on 1.5 and I was not able to give 2 shots a day. She was fine with that. I was very surprised to see a 203 :-D this am given how stressed at the vets she was last night. But I am also trying to find a different spot to inject to see if that makes a difference. I let the vet know about this forum and told her she should recommend it to her other diabetic cat owners. I think this is a great forum with lots of great advice and will keep posting. Have a Great Day everyone
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

I hope you can watch her today. A number near 200 at preshot is usually a sign to reduce again. It can mean that she went quite low overnight . Keep an eye on her numbers, particularly midcycle.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

No, I was not able to watch her, I had to go to work I am a nurse and in charge of a large department so its difficult taking off. My husband did come home at lunch time and said she was sleeping but woke up and purred when he got near her. He does not feel comfortable checking her sugar. She may have dropped some, since her PM sugar was high. This weekend I will check her curve again and see about dropping her dose. She is acting fine, no worse for the ware. She is running around this am playing.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

I forgot. You have the difficult work schedule. One thing you can do is to always leave out some food, so if she feels herself going low, she can eat. The curve should give us some good data and a plan to proceed.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

ok so it seems that since I started Mya on homemade raw her sugars are back in the 400's in the mornings and evenings. I plan on doing a curve tomorrow (unable today, I have other obligations) so hopefully we can get the full picture. I also have a website to a pet nutrionist to see if maybe I can get a diet specific for Mya.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Good morning Karen -

I'm not experienced w/ the raw diet. Perhaps you should open a new thread entitled "Need help w/ Raw Diet" or something to the effect of "BG results from Raw Diet" on the health page. That would open it up to more folks than the Prozinc crowd.

I checked out Mya's spreadsheet, and it appears she gets some really good numbers when you shoot into the lower preshots. Nothing too dramatic - nice numbers. And I know it's frustrating to see some reds and pinks, but eventually they will come down. You may need to increase the dose on those numbers, but I can't tell you how much. I know the goal is to get to the "magic number" slowly, so maybe increasing by .2 or .25 every couple of days would help you find the number that keeps her pre-shot about the same, both in AM and PM.

Of course we all want to see our babies get regulated NOW, but finding the right dose is more important than the speed at which we arrive there.

Good luck!
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hello,
So I did increase Mya's dose last night to 1.25u, we will see how that goes. She was in the high300's this am and the low 400's this pm. I have also posted on the health site to see if anyone feeds homemade raw. Im even thinking of changing to low carb. Do you have any suggestions? I have printed out the list of canned foods from Janet and Binky.

Karen
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Lots of us feed Fancy Feast classics, Friskies, Wellness or Merrick - basically what she will eat and what you can afford.

It seems like the food changes have made her numbers bounce around. The curve you got looks inverse, which often means too much insulin. She did seem to get better numbers at the lower dose. Once the food stabilizes and you have a few more numbers to look at, it may be easier to see whether she needs to go up or down in dose.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Is it normal that she seems hungry all the time? I feed her twice a day, about 2-3 oz at each meal. She is also very aggresive towards my other cats. Im afraid she will hurt one of them since she has claws and they don't.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Unfortunately, yes. Her body is not processing the food and she is literally starving. Getting her numbers into more normal ranges will help with that. While we don't advocate overfeeding, it is suggested that you feed her more than you normally might. As she becomes regulated, her appetite and food consumption should decrease.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hi Karen..

Sorry, I am late introducing myself and welcoming you to our group--I was away over the weekend! My name is Kim and I have a heard of diabetics--My cat, Kitty; a DCIN foster cat, Chewy; and my dog, Sally! I know....it is hard for me to believe too!!!

I am going to look over your post and try to familiarize myself with you and Mya.

As far as your question regarding food-- it is very normal for newly diagnosed diabetics to be extremely hungry. I would feed Mya what she wanted. You might have to adjust the insulin to accomodate the increased food, but with time, as she becomes more regulated the hunger will subside.

Good Luck to you and Mya!
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hi Karen,

I feed semi-raw to Kitten, it's been great for her, but she is extremely responsive to EVERYTHING, food, carb content, insulin. You can take a peek at her ss, we switched to the semi raw 2/24 pm, and you could see the difference on the next curve. You may have to keep decreasing your dose, we went from 1u down to 0.1u or 0.05u very quickly. If you don't mind making the food and feel like you can stick with it, I think it's a great diet.

Cathy
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Cathy,
When you say semi raw, does that mean you are cooking it, or mixing it with other food. If you dont mind could you share your recipe. I do all raw now.
Karen
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Kim,
I know how much of a challenge it is for me with one diabetic cat. My hat is off to you. How do you stay sane? Not to mention the cost of supplies. I thought I was busy with 5 cats 2 dogs and fish. I did have a rabbit but found a very good home for it. I get called the cat lady :lol: Keep up the good work.

Karen
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

hi Karen
I just took a peek at your SS
Looks good, see that you raised which is good
maybe you could try for some night time numbers to see how things are going at night
on the new dose.
:mrgreen:
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Thats my plan for this pm. Since she has been on the increased dose for 2 days now. I will not be able to do a full curve until the weekend.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

kphowe said:
Cathy,
When you say semi raw, does that mean you are cooking it, or mixing it with other food. If you dont mind could you share your recipe. I do all raw now.
Karen


I use the Dr. Pierson recipie that was listed earlier this thread, I seal the chicken at 350 for around 20 minutes to kill off anything on the outside, but it's still raw inside and not mixed with other food. The Dr. has guidelines for increasing the amount of skin in the food to help gain/lose weight, which might be good for you too.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Thats the same recipe that I use, but I remove the skin and have not baked it at all. I think I will try to leave on some skin and bake it a little. I still think this is the best type of food. I do go through alot since Im feeding multiple cats.

Thanks
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

So I did some checks last night, but was only able to do 3. She did not drop below 200, and this am she was back to 420. I'm using the one touch ultra glucometer. I will hopefully be able to do a full curve this weekend. Maybe I need to get a new prescription for the PZI, I have had it since January 30. But I thought it was good for at least 3 months and I do keep it in the refrigerator (only take it out long enough to warm up).
Have a Great day everyone.
 
Re: help with regulating the amount of insulin for my sweat

Hello All,

Sorry I have not been on lately. But I changed Mya's diet from raw to wellness 4% carbs. She has been on this since Friday am feeding. It also has more calories and seems to hold her better between feedings. (she is not as hungry and searching for food).(she gets a whole can split in two 5.5oz total) I did a very long curve today and want a little advice. With the numbers I have, Ithink I should increase to 1.5u. Only did up to 11:30 pm as I have to get some sleep, need to get up at 5 am to get ready for work.
Thanks in advance, Karen and Mya.
 
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