Help with Reading Chart

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Kathleen and Fred

Kathleen and Fred

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Wondered if someone could look over this chart on Fred and see what I'm missing. The numbers seem to be all over the place. Fred has been OTJ for weeks at a time, and then back on again, with numbers usually no higher than the mid 200's. But, lately he's up in the 300's and I'm getting worried. He's not showing any signs of distress and I'm trying to say on top of things with diet and testing, but he may need additional Vet care. I've had such mixed experiences with them, however, that I'd rather get your advice before going that route.

Just so you'll understand my chart, the numbers under the dates represent the number of days since first diagnosed and (if there's another number) the number of days OTJ during this event. No "little" number means he's getting insulin (ProZinc) and the amount of insulin is indicated under the test number. The top numbers in colors indicate how much insulin the Vet has recommended based on the testing range. I try to stick to that amount.

Recently, I got new test strips (Micro Relion) and a new bottle of insulin ($100.50!! and i never use it all because they say it goes bad in 6 months!).

Maybe this is normal and I should expect the higher numbers as time goes by, but there may be something I need to take care of right away.

Your advice is much appreciated.

Kathleen & Fred
 
Hi Kathleen - sorry to see you guys back here! From what it looks like on your chart you are kinda dosing as needed vs every 12 hours. Since his numbers seem kinda high lately, I'd try to stick to a strict 12 hour dosing schedule. I can't really tell what dose will be best for him right now, but there is a big difference between the doses you are trying (none, 1u and 2u). It could be that he needs a constant 1.5u or something similar. When you start seeing lower numbers, but still diabetic numbers (those between 130 and 190), you might try micro dosing (doses below 1u). When people micro dose all the way down to no dose, it usually results in a stronger and longer OTJ.

If I remember right, you guys are on PZI or prozinc, right? Or am I crazy and you are using lantus :lol:
 
It's freaky how much Oscar looks like Freddie!! -- big eyes and all!!

Thanks so much for your input. I was coming to that conclusion, but I've always been afraid of over-dosing and causing hypoglycemia. Yes, he's on Prozinc. Previous months have seen him go as much as 30 days at 90-170 with no problem. I usually credit higher numbers to something "bad" that he eats -- like holiday ham!!

Also, Fred likes to eat often -- about every 4-5 hours. I try to give him about 2-3 oz. at each feeding, attempting to keep the blood sugar steady. I'm retired, so I can do this fairly easily.....although it keeps me tethered to home! Maybe I'm feeding him too much and too often. How do you feed Oscar? Is he OTJ? Some how I just feel it's related to his diet. I can't afford the expensive stuff -- I can only go as high as Fancy Feast (on sale). But I try to keep to the pate and not the gravy's.

Question: Should I just shoot 1 to 1.5u every 12 hours for a few days without testing, then begin testing again? What if the numbers are high, like the 310 we go this morning? Should I shoot more.

I'm not frantic this time. We've been down worse roads before. He's showing no signs of any distress -- not even urinating a lot. It's just a numbers game and I'd like to beat it.

Thanks so much for being there for us!!

Kathleen & Freddie
 
Also, Fred likes to eat often -- about every 4-5 hours. I try to give him about 2-3 oz. at each feeding, attempting to keep the blood sugar steady. I'm retired, so I can do this fairly easily.....although it keeps me tethered to home! Maybe I'm feeding him too much and too often. How do you feed Oscar? Is he OTJ? Some how I just feel it's related to his diet. I can't afford the expensive stuff -- I can only go as high as Fancy Feast (on sale). But I try to keep to the pate and not the gravy's.

Question: Should I just shoot 1 to 1.5u every 12 hours for a few days without testing, then begin testing again? What if the numbers are high, like the 310 we go this morning? Should I shoot more.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is over feeding. Many small meals like that is actually better than two big meals. It means less stress on the pancreas. My kiddos get about 1oz of food 6 times a day for what its worth. If he is eating 2-3oz that often without gaining a lot of weight though, it means that you are feeding his diabetes more than his body. Fancy feast is just fine. Many people here feed that and many have gone OTJ. Oscar isn't OTJ yet - but he is down to around 0.5u right now. My other sugar kitty - Yoda, is OTJ. You can take a look at his chart to see how we micro dosed on Lantus. You won't shoot the numbers quite the same on Prozinc, but I do think you should try to micro dose your way down the best you can.

I personally would go to 1.5u every 12 hours, but I wouldn't drop the testing part of the routine. You need to know if things kick in all of a sudden (which kitties like to do time from time). Start with the 1.5u twice a day for a few days (minimum of 3 I'd say) and we will go from there. Depending on his numbers, you can increase after that. If he starts getting low numbers for any reason, back the dose down to 1.25u.
 
Fred's weight stays around 16 lbs. He's a big, tall boy, but not fat -- more muscular. I've never understood how much food to feed any of my cats. If you have a formula, I'd appreciate that.

Sometimes I switch to 9-lives and Special Kitty (Walmart) if the flavor is on the "approved list". And, sometimes I just get what's on sale. I can't see a big difference in his numbers either way.

Fred likes to eat at 7am, 2pm, 7pm, 11pm and 4am....yep, I have to keep food in the bathroom for this morning snack, so I don't have to go down to the kitchen. He will "nag" me until he gets his food. At that rate, would you recommend 2oz at each feeding? When I have to be away, I'll leave a frozen cube (about 1-2 oz) on his plate for during-the-day-feeding.

Your point about "feeding the diabetes" in interesting and I'm not sure if I'm doing that. I'll try the 1.5 Prozinc at 7am and 7pm and see what happens -- regardless of numbers. I'll test and send you the results at the end of this week -- probably Friday. Then, we can see where to go from there.

Thanks for hanging in.....maybe one day I can be helpful to someone else!!

Kathleen & Fred
 
One more thing....I was reading Yoda's chart and see the improvement with Lantus. Is there any good reason to try that instead of Prozinc?

Also, is it necessary to test, then feed, then shoot? Does there have to be food on the stomach before giving the insulin? What if he's gotten into some food before the test period -- say an hour before -- which may cause the numbers to be higher. Do you still give the insulin at the 12 hour interval?

I may not have gotten all the instructions right from the beginning, and the Vet gave me those insulin numbers, e.g., 300 give 2u; 200 give 1u. I need better understanding of how much to give at each level, as we, hopefully, go back down to OTJ.

thanks again...

Kathleen & Fred
 
I personally don't have a formula for the amount to feed. I just go by whether my kitties are gaining or loosing weight. I feed enough to keep their weight about the same.

The Lantus seemed to work really quickly for Yoda, but that's not to say that the prozinc wouldn't have eventually worked. I had someone sending me donated lantus since Yoda was a foster kitty at the time, so I decided to switch both Yoda and Oscar over at that time. There are many that have gone OTJ on prozinc, and there are also many that have switched from prozinc because they weren't happy with how it worked.

As far as the sliding scale dosing your vet suggested - there are also a handful of people on prozinc that use a sliding scale, but to have the doses be that different (1u vs 2u) is not normal. Usually a sliding scale will be like 180-150 = 1u, 150-250 = 1.25u, 250-350 = 1.5u, above 350 = 1.75u.

Definitely post up your numbers for Fred when you have them ready! I'll try to keep checking back in on this thread :-D
 
thanks for hanging in....I'm going to give this test period a chance to kick in. So, you might want to check in on Thurs. and I'll post his chart and number, then you can tell me what you think.

One other thing...I've always tested, then fed, then shot. Since I'm giving several little meals throughout the day, does it really matter when he eats in relation to the every-12-hr-testing/shot? Or should he have not eaten for, say 2-3 hours before testing/shooting?

Fred's weight is holding steady at 16 lbs.

Check for our numbers Thursday PM.
 
Test, feed, shoot all within like 15 min. You should try not to feed about 3 hours before shot time so the number isn't food influenced.
 
OK, here are the results of the little 4-day test. I've created a chart that should show everything, including my notes. I wasn't able to stick with feeding and testing/shooting exactly on time, due to my schedule this week. But the method of shooting 1.5 every 12 hours seems to be working.

I was a little afraid to shoot 1.25 this evening due to the below-diabetic number. My syringe only shows whole numbers, so .50 and .25 are difficult and I have to eye-ball it. I'm still not sure how much food to give him because there are days when he just seems ravenous!! This evening was one of those days, probably because of the interruption in the feeding schedule. What does "feeding the diabetes" mean?

Anyway, please take a look and let me know what you think. If this is good progress, please let me know the next steps. I think this idea of sticking to one level and gradually lowering it makes sense instead of the sliding scale approach. My only fear is hypoglycemia. Maybe I'm over sensitive to that.

Thanks again for hanging with us!!

Kathleen & Fred
 
Hi Kathleen (and Fred)
I just read this thread for the first time. Wish I'd seen it sooner. Your dosing of Fred reminds me of how I dosed Bob at times (as far as adjusting amounts based on PS results). I was sort of winging it before I joined this board.

Couple things. You asked about a formula for how much to feed. This is a very simple one I found here. There are others that are more complex. It isn't how many oz. he eats, but how many calories he's consuming. Some canned foods are just higher or lower in calories, so it really depends on which brands and flavors he gets every day. The basic formula is - in order to maintain current weight, he needs 20 calories per pound of body weight per day. So if he's 17 pounds, then 340 cal per day.
Are you familiar with Janet and Binky's food charts? If not, there's a link in my sig that will take you there.. Not only are the carb/fat/protein %s listed, but also how many calories in a can are on there.
What you could do (if you're obsessive like me, for instance) is check all the calorie numbers, and write them on the side of the can. Then stack cans on the shelf that total about the right amount of cal per day. You could then call Fred over and say "Look Fred, this is today's menu! You can eat this and this and part of this today, okay?" At which point Fred will say "Oh wow Mom! I am really really impressed with your organizational skills! Now, while you are standing there, why not pop the lid off one of those cans, dump it in my dish and FEED ME, cuz I'm kinda getting hungry down here....I swear I'll love you forever!"
Bob and I have conversations like that all the time. :lol:
Carl in SC
 
Kathleen,
I also had to "eyeball" the .25 increments on my syringes. With u40 syringes, I found the .25 easy, but increments smaller than that were guesswork for me.
One tip to relieve some of that "is this too much" anxiety. If there's any way to do so, see about getting at least one test in the middle. With PZI, Fred should nadir around +6. But if the question at the PMPS point is "too much?", the best test to do would be around +10 or +11. When put alongside the PMPS (+12) number, that will tell you if Fred's BG is going up or not. It it is rising, then the 1.00 tonight would be okay. If it isn't going up from +10 to +12, but actually dropping, then there would be reason to hesitate. I found (and everyone here would most likely agree) that mid-cycle tests just give you a lot better sense of the total picture with regard to how Fred is reacting to the insulin over the course of a cycle. It'll give you more confidence when adjusting a dose in small increments, and give you more of an idea of what to expect from that dose.

"Feeding the diabetes". Especially at the beginning, when kitty is not regulated or on insulin for long, he would have a huge appetite. That's because diabetes prohibits him from gaining all the nutrition he needs from normal amounts of food. So people are encouraged to feed him as much as he wants to compensate. Eventually, the appetite will revert to whatever is "normal", and they just won't eat as much. You can feed him often, and as much as he wants, providing you don't let him gain a lot of weight once he's getting over the diabetes. At that point, if he insists on more food, you can just feed him "better" foods. Something that will satisfy his hunger without giving him too many calories or fat.

When I look at his SS, those numbers look really great to me, and I would keep the dose at 1.5 unless his BG keeps throwing you those low "do I shoot or not" numbers. To me, it doesn't look like Fred will be on 1.5 too long. You may see reason to reduce him again if things keep going as well as they seem to be. If he does show you a "low" like he did tonight, do what you did tonight. Reduce the dose rather than skip a shot. As long as you have some level of confidence that a reduced dose won't push his BG too low, then shoot. If you are kind of unsure, err on the side of caution, and be ready to test him 2, 4 or 6 hours after dosing to see how low his BG goes. Have a hypo kit ready just in case. If things start to go bad and freak you out, then post here immediately. There is always someone on line late/early that will be able to help. From what I've seen, the hypo-type stuff only seems to happen at 2am (or maybe it's because that's usually when I'm on to see it!)
Looks like you and Fred are doing great!
Carl in SC
 
It's been a long day and I'm only taking in about half of what you've written -- which appears to be really great information. I'm really interested in getting this diet business under control, since I think that will ultimately help his number. I really can't afford the expensive or raw foods, so I'll start checking the cans for caloric and ingredient content. I have the Janet chart, but that's not always what's on sale!!

Tomorrow, when I'm fresher, I'll read over your comments again. Don't be surprised if you hear from me again. I'm beginning to see that the "sliding scale" system doesn't work as well as the "micro" system. Fred's been OTJ as much as 50 days at a time, but it always came back. Maybe with this system and better diet, we could not have to shoot for longer periods -- I never believe it can be beat altogether.

Thanks again.....keep checking in.....I may have more questions.

Kathleen & Fred.....who got his very own can of Fancy Feast tonight!!
 
I was able to read your comments this morning and actually take in the information !! Sleep helps. Fred was at 139 this morning without the need for a 4am feeding. I gave him a big breakfast (5oz) to see him through a day when I won't be here to give little snacks. I'll leave an oz or 2 in frozen cubes, so he can snack if he gets hungry during the day. I'm hoping to get him off these little meals, simply because my new schedule won't allow me to consistently feed him that way -- although I think it's good for him.

About the feeding, if he's getting little meals every 4 hours and I try to test at the mid-point, won't that mess up the BG numbers -- how will I know if he's going up or down? Another argument for 2 to 3 bigger meals.

Thanks for the reminder about the calorie intake. I had forgotten that and will check the numbers on the site you suggested. Also, what do you consider "normal"? I've received so much information about when to shoot, when not to shoot, what is and what is not a normal reading. My vet says anything between 70 - 170 is normal. On this site, I've been told that he's still in a diabetic state at 130-190. When are the numbers too low to shoot? When can I consider him to be OTJ, safely? (with testing, of course.) Also, does his size make a difference? He's a big (not fat) male with lots of muscle. He could probably gain a few more lbs and still not be fat. He looked thin at 15 lbs -- ribs showing!

Well, getting over an earthquake and getting ready for "Irene"......better stock up on cat food. Forget the bread and milk!!

Thanks,
Kathleen & Fred
 
For you, I'd consider anything below 150 would be a "Wait to Shoot" number.... not necessarily a don't shoot number. Wait to shoot means to hold off food and insulin until you see his number start to rise on its own. I believe that any number over 150 is a non-diabetic number. Most kitties that are OTJ are often below 100 90% of the time. My Yoda doesn't go above 80.

Since you have been getting lower and lower preshot numbers (which is awesome!), try to get a spot check or two in between shot times. Try for +6 reading, if you can get it, try to get a +4 and +8 also. This will give you a good idea of how low he is going on that 1.5u and if you need to adjust down the dose just a bit.
 
You can consider him OTJ when he has gone 2 weeks with numbers below 150 all on his own. But if he is riding 130-150 the whole time, it would be better to micro dose (literaly a drop of insulin) to get him into more green numbers. In an OTJ trial you really want to see more numbers below 100 than above 100.
 
Kelly & Oscar said:
For you, I'd consider anything below 150 would be a "Wait to Shoot" number.... not necessarily a don't shoot number. Wait to shoot means to hold off food and insulin until you see his number start to rise on its own. I believe that any number over 150 is a non-diabetic number. Most kitties that are OTJ are often below 100 90% of the time. My Yoda doesn't go above 80.

Since you have been getting lower and lower preshot numbers (which is awesome!), try to get a spot check or two in between shot times. Try for +6 reading, if you can get it, try to get a +4 and +8 also. This will give you a good idea of how low he is going on that 1.5u and if you need to adjust down the dose just a bit.
Click to expand...

Need a little help, here. when you say "hold off food and insulin until you see his number start to rise", do you mean not to feed him that test period? Also, "any number over 150 is a non-diabetic number".....I thought anything UNDER 130 was non-diabetic. Fred, when OTJ, didn't seem to feel as well when he was under 100.

This morning we tested at 145 and I dropped the dose to 1.25 (as best as I can determine with no markers on the syringe). I'm also trying to regulate his food, giving him more in the AM and less little meals, then more in PM. These will be the times I'll be home coming up this Fall and I need to get him used to this schedule. He seems to like the bigger meals rather than stringing them out.

One last thing, I've always colored my charts to my liking, but I noticed you mentioned "Green" numbers. Is there an official color code that would help others to read my charts?

I'll be home with hurricane Irene tomorrow, so I plan to make that a multiple test day. If we're still standing, I'll check in with you later!! Thanks again.

Kathleen & Fred
 
Sorry, I was typing fast the other day. You are correct, anything over 150 is a *diabetic* number :o !

Green numbers refer to the color coding of the spreadsheet template we use here, it is an easy way of saying a double digit number (one below 100).

The wait to feed/shoot is if you test at normal shot time and he is below 150. If that happens, wait to fed him and test again in 30 min to see if the number is going up or down. I would never shoot a dose into a number that is still going down. You wait to feed because food will always make the number go up, so you want to see what his body is doing without the influence of food.

Stay safe with that hurricane! I hope I clarified what you were asking about :-D
 
Thanks for the clarifications. I'll go back to Yoda's or Oscar's spreadsheet and take note of the colors so I'll be reporting out the same info. I just picked the colors that "spoke" to me!! I think Fred will be under 150 soon now. I'll keep testing for a week or so to be sure it's consistent. Sure would be nice to be able to go away, even for a day, but that won't happen until he's stable.

Just came in from cutting tree limbs off the house before Irene can cause more damage. Richmond is not on the coast, so we're only expecting higher winds and more rain than a normal storm. But, the people at the beach have already been evacuated. 'Tis the season!!

Look for us in the next week or so.

Have a good weekend!
 
Can you take a look at this chart and tell me if it's time to "micro dose". I'm trying to control the calories and the insulin and not sure when to go OTJ entirely or to go down in dosage. If Micro is the way, what numbers do I look for in order to give 1/2 then 1/4, etc.
 
I'd like to test Freddie at +4, +6 and +9 to see his "direction". But, I give little meals throughout the day. Won't this interfere with the numbers?

Here's my latest test chart.

Thanks,
Kathleen & Fred
 
Some mid cycle numbers will really help you see what is going on with the insulin when given and his numbers if not. The small meals might change the numbers a bit, but if that is his pattern (small frequent meals) then that is what I would deal with. Mini doses may be in your future, but more numbers would really help.

Your chart is really difficult for me to read - very small and faint. Not everyone is willing to download a chart onto their computer - one of the reasons the one we have on site works so well. It can be shared with everyone. Any chance we could help you see it up? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
I'm not quite sure how to set up the SS everyone uses. Is there a place I should go to plug in the numbers. I set mine up for my own tracking without much thought to sharing. But, since it seems I will need to do that in order to get the proper advice, please let me know how it's done and I'll set it up right away.

thanks for sticking with us!!

Kathleen & Fred
 
Kathleen, try that link I gave you. It has the instructions for accessing and publishing the spreadsheet. If you have any trouble, send me a pm and I will try to help.
 
Hi Kathleen! Sorry I have been away for so long - I had some kidney stone issues and just had surgery last week to remove the stones finally. ugh!

Fred's numbers are looking great! I'd try going down to 0.5u BID and hold it there unless the numbers make you reduce from there. Get in a spot check between shots when you can so we can make sure this dose is safe. I think 1u may be too much, and the numbers around 9/7 indicate that he is not ready for no insulin. How has Fred been doing lately?
 
I was wondering where you were! So sorry to hear about those horrible stones -- worse than child birth, they say. Glad to have you back here.

I'm sending the most recent chart for Fred. I haven't had time to put it into the "acceptable" format, but the colors are right. (: He's going a little off, just now. I'm trying to switch over to a raw food diet (commercial - Nature's Variety, Instinct in cans and medallions). I'm doing this because I'm fighting on two fronts -- diabetes in Fred and allergies in Lucy. It's expensive, but, if I can see any improvement for either of them, I may decide to make my own food. I'm also cutting down on portions. 1/4 cup 4 times a day seems to keep everyone happy. I'm also putting in a little regular commercial food to make the transition easier.

I just can't seem to get to the point where I can start micro-dosing. The numbers won't cooperate!! Meanwhile, Fred's happy as a clam -- no issues. It's Lucy that seems to struggle with sniffles and itching.

Thanks for looking this over.

Kathleen & Fred
 
Still looks to me like 1u is too much. You want to find a dose that will let you dose twice a day. Going between 1u and no insulin is a big change to deal with. Try 0.5u for a few days in a row. If that makes the numbers creep up, then try 0.75u twice a day. We have to find a dose slightly lower than that 1u that will let you keep dosing.

With this micro dosing, it is helpful to switch over to u100 syringes and use a conversion chart. This will allow you to accurately dose in 0.2u increments.
 
Thanks so much for the info and the chart. I had tried these u-100s in the past but was told I could really get into trouble with them, so I quit.

Just to be sure I'm looking at this correctly, If I used to give 1.0 (U-40), I would now give 2.5 (u-100); .5 (u-40) = 1.0-1.5 (u-100); .25 (u-40) = 0.5-1.0 (u-100); .75 (u-40) = 1.5-2.0 (u-100). The chart didn't give exact conversions, so I'm assuming you'd go in the middle of the marks for u-100.

I'll have to get these syringes from the pharmacy. My vet doesn't carry u-100. I hope the needle is as sharp and thin!! In the meantime, I think I can eye-ball .5 on the u-40 syringes. .25 and .75 will be trickier.

I'm now seeing what you're trying to tell me....down dose AM & PM gradually until the body begins to accept less insulin and picks up on it's own. My problem is that I see a big number (like this AM - 244) and I rush for the syringe and 1u to bring it down. Then, the PM is lower and I feel vindicated. But, it doesn't help in the long run. This gradual stepping down may be the best method. How will I know when to do down a notch?

Thanks again for the chart and direction.....hope you're feeling better!

Kathleen & Fred
 
The am number is likely higher because you skip the shot in the pm due to the lower number. It is a vicious cycle!

If you did go with u100 syringes, you would start dosing the prozinc in 0.2u increments. 0.2u prozinc = 0.5u in a u100 syringe. So 1u of prozinc is 2.5u of insulin in a u100 syringe. I would advocate starting with a 0.6u dose if you got u100 syringes. You won't get into trouble as long as you print the conversion chart and always look at it every time you dose. It is much more accurate than estimating those micro doses on a large u40 syringe.

You can get u100 syringes very cheaply at walmart. Ask for the u100 3/10cc syringe that has a 31 gauge short needle and 1/2 unit markings. With a small capacity like that, they can print half unit markings on the syringe, so there is no guessing where that 0.5u line is. A box of 100 usually costs me around $13. If you get this kind of needle, it will actually be thinner and shorter than the u40s you are buying from your vet.
 
OK, I'm going to get the syringes from Walmart tomorrow. Let me get this straight....I'll start dosing AM & PM at 1.5u on the 100u syringe (0.6 on the u40 syringe). I will do this dosing for about a week (?) regardless of numbers....but what if they go below 100 or over 300? That's where I panic. Actually, I don't think this will happen, but just wanted your advice.

What can I expect from this dosing and when should I start to reduce the dose? Do I go down to 1.0 and then to 0.5 at a certain point? And, when do I stop the insulin all together?

Final question...have you noticed in your cats (or others you know about) that a raw food diet helps diabetes significantly? So far I'm not seeing much change.

Looking forward to your response!!

Kathleen & Fred
 
Don't dose regardless of numbers, especially if they are too low. Reduce the dose if the number is below 150. If the nadir (low point) is below 50, reduce the dose by 0.2u (of a u40 dose) OR 0.5u in the u100 syringe. If you start seeing consistent numbers in the 300 range (which I doubt you will see) then up the dose by 0.2u.

Most of us feeding a raw diet make it ourselves, and that is where I saw the biggest difference. We supplemented with the Nature's Variety raw for a while, but saw the biggest difference when I started making it and feeding only that. The only difference in ingredients I know about is that the Nature's Variety contains stuff like apples and carrots and such.
 
Got the syringes.....numbers last two days in 180's & 190's so this morning he got a shot with his new orange syringes (!) at the 1.5 dosage. I'll work with that for a while and bring it down by small increments as the numbers drop.

Just to be clear.....if his numbers get close to or around 100, I should NOT does, correct?

I've read the info on raw food and would like to get started, but the initial outlay of grinder, supplements to food and the raw ingredients themselves seems a little daunting right now. I'm going to make that my project for October. Meanwhile, I'm paying quite a bit for the Nature's Variety food. I feel better about it than the 9-Lives, etc., but it's very expensive.

When you say you saw a difference in your cats, do you mean in the BG levels, general health or other things. I'm trying to decide if it's worth the trouble. Lucy's allergies haven't cleaned much on the mixed raw diet (have to use up the old stuff), but we're not strictly free from allergens even with that food. She's the one I'm hoping will benefit from raw. Freddie would eat pillow cases, if you put them in gravy!!

Thanks so much. I'll be checking in on this progress. Any further information (other than the sites I have) on the raw food situation would be appreciated.

Have a great weekend!

Kathleen & Fred
Kelly & Oscar said:
Don't dose regardless of numbers, especially if they are too low.
Click to expand...
 
Definitely don't give a dose if numbers are near 100 - there isn't a lot of wiggle room on numbers going lower before they go too low.

Once I started making my own raw food I noticed all my kitties' personalities blossoming. They just had more personality. Their coat colors deepened, their fur became softer, and they just seemed healthier. Oscar's numbers were phenomenal when I first switched, but now we are back to the same song and dance. (sorta - just at a lower dose now)
 
So far so good with the new syringes. Fred's running between 100-150 and mostly around 130. I'm not shooting near 100. But, I down-dosed to 1.0 this morning at 130. Hopefully, we'll be in the "green" before too long.

As for food, I'm going to use Nature's Variety in cans and medallions exclusively until it runs out -- about 4 more days. I want to see if it makes a difference in Fred. The others like it -- except for rabbit. Nobody seems to like rabbit!! Then, I'll start introducing the commercial stuff (9-lives, etc.) and see where his numbers go. As you say, everything seems to work for a while and then, out of the blue, the numbers jump up. Guess that's the difficulty of this disease. But, at least we're controlling it somewhat.

If they only knew how much trouble we go to in keeping them well and safe!!

I'll post his numbers again next week for you to see.

Many thanks,
Kathleen & Fred
 
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