Help with nutrient profile conversion to ME

[bettyandhank]

I have some nutrient profiles I could use some help converting.
I requested them in ME values/% calories from Protein,Fat,Carb ....and as a second option dry matter if those were not available.
If dry matter was supplied, I asked to provide P, F, C, fiber, ash, moisture... as well requested phosphorous values.

After a few attempts I finally got some info....they cannot provide it as ME as it is not available. (of course)

Attached are the files they sent me - forwarded from their research dept.
1) The jpg. is for the treats
2) The PDF for the 'moist meals'

In the body of her message she added that 'The cat treats are 29.5% carbohydrates'
but did not specify if that was represented as DM, As-fed, etc. ...

I followed up to ask if it was 'as-fed'... she relayed 'yes' after contacting research.
But they appear to be referenced as 'as received' which I have never heard of. (is this the same thing?)

I am never confident when trying to do conversions. I just don't do it often enough...but I got somewhere around 27.5-29.5 carbs....assuming i did it right with the correct info.
Would someone mind double checking for me?

I would love to get some confirmation, see what you get, etc.. Maybe 'as-received' is something different thus needs to be converted differently?
Ultimately I am wanting ME/% of calories from carb. as I was trying to get in the first place.
...and how much % is it per treat? maybe its not as bad as it seems and the amounts are skewed without it being ME?

I have have the treats already as I bought them thinking they were LC as I recalled several people using them. But if my calculations were right, then they are not.

I have not tried to run the tender moist yet, I got those later...not sure if all needed info is there... but if someone has an idea of ME on those too it would be great. They look interesting

tagging a few people i think may be good at this: @Ann & Tess @Elizabeth and Bertie @Sienne and Gabby .........who else?

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Betty,

You can use the online Scheyderweb calculator to do most of the calculation.
To do that you need to know the percentages of; protein, fat, ash, fiber and moisture (and from my quick look at the info provided it looks that you have that there).
When you put those percentages into the calculator here it will give you (amongst other things) the 'calories from carbs per 100g' and the 'total calories per 100g':
http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

Then, to get the percentage of calories from carbs you grab a calculator and do this:
Divide the 'calories from carbs per 100g' by the 'total calories per 100g' and then multiply by 100. Tada!

If you need more help do please ask. Am writing this post in haste but will be back later.

Eliz

 

[bettyandhank]

OY! Hi Elizabeth. I did that already...hence looking for a second opinion since i still am uncertain if I did it right.

I am not sure what 'as received' is? .....that may skew the result if it needs a conversion on its own?
and/or if further calculations need to happen to get it to ME/% of calories.

I promise if I felt 100% confident in my conversion capabilities I would not post here asking for second set of eyes/confirmation.
But since not...I WOULD SO LOVE ANOTHER OPINION from someone who perhaps does this more often or feels confident they did it right for the correct results.

What do YOU get?

Let me re-phrase. Can someone someone please tell me the % of calories from protein, fat and carb using the attached nutrient profiles provided by the manufacturer?

thanks!

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Betty,

I'm struggling to read the JPG because my old eyes aren't great with close vision but I think I'm seeing: Protein, 20.11, Fat, 10.5; Fiber, 0.8; Ash, 4.5; Moisture, 35.3. And when I run that through my own carb calculator (which is slightly different to the Scheyderweb) I get that the percentage of calories from carbs is 38.7%.

Just going to have a look at the other food now....

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

...And on the second food...
There is no figure for fibre so I've had to count that as zero (but it would be higher than that); but the other figures that I can see are: Protein, 44.1; Fat, 11.5; Ash, 6.12; Moisture, 27.44. And on my calculator that comes out as 13.1% calories from carbs.
(Please correct me if I've read any of these figures wrong. I was up at silly o'clock this morning and my brain is tired out...)

In addition to the calculation itself it's helpful to look at the ingredients list.
Be aware of any sources of carbs, ie, peas/potatoes/lentils etc; that might give a clue as to whether a food may or may not be suitable. For a low carb food we really want to see that it is as close to 100% meat as is possible. This is important because sometimes the figures given by the manufacturers seem a bit whacky. For example, I've seen treats that only list pure meat as an ingredient; but when you run the analysis from the manufacturer through a carb calculator they can come out as way higher than zero carb.... Very confusing....

Edited to add: If you'd like me to email you my calculator (very basic Excel sheet) just PM me your email address.

Eliz

 

[bettyandhank]

Hi Elizabeth-

Was offline doing some other things... sorry just got a little frustrated. I bought these well over 2 weeks ago, then it took 2-3 rounds, emails and follow up calls to get what I did get from manufacturer. When I ran the calculations, not knowing if these were as-fed or not, I was getting 28-29 carbs..but since the Sheyderweb asks for GA values, I wasn't sure if I was even getting accurate results, or if skewed.
On top of which I had seen many folks on here that fed this treat saying it was LC, so I doubted myself and my calculations.

And the 28-ish% was already bad enough..and it turns out it's worse after converting to ME! these are close to 39% carb. NO WONDER he loves them!
I was already doubting i'd done it right when they came in at what was already a high 29.5

Since they are treats, do you still factor the same 39% PER TREAT? I guess they'd have to eat gobs to impact. truth is he likes them so well I'd hoped to use them as food toppers. THAT would not be a good idea.

SO
1) does the Shederweb calc (which I have used in past) still work if the input is AS-FED or DRY MAtter vs the GA they ask for?

2) what is 'As-received'?..have you heard of this?


Thank you so much for your helpful input. I will try to get the missing fibre amounts form the manuf.... they truly are making me work for it. This will be the 4th or 5th time I've had to follow up...i had asked for both fiber and phos.
The last formula you gave me with the shederweb to convert to ME really helps ...I had not realized that was a way to do it. I used to use janet/binkys old excel..

I am awaiting one from a different manuf...so hopefully it will be clearer and I will be able to figure it out. I may still may ask for your confirmation if that's ok with you.

thanks so much!

 

[bettyandhank]

I sent an umpteenth follow up request for the fiber. will see what they say.

So disappointed that re: the treats.. that everyone thought were low carb (and giving to their FD's) are so high at nearly 39%!
i saw the potato in the ingredient list, but since so many had mentioned them as LC, assumed/hoped it was a neglible amount like the rice in friskies pate.. guess not!