Help With Glucose Meter and Hypoing

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For those just coming in.. here is the summary

last shot
9:00am Monday-4 units PZI
35 @ 5:00pm ( +8 )
28 @ 10:00pm (+13 )- no evening shot given
37 @ 12:030 (+15.5 )
31 @ approx (+17 )

meter tested on civie at 69

kitty also hypo'd new years eve, had been on 5 units pzi, treated at er, given same dose since

dextrose and food and carbs have been given, and still not coming up above 40.

Have advise take to ER to get further assistance.
Cat is currently sleepy and irritated with shots.

They are in Tuscon, Arizona.

Have I missed anything?

Have you been able to get another test yet?
 
An extended hypo will look like this when the liver has no more reserves to kick in and help.
I really, really think you need to call ER and head to them...this is dangerous. Please...you tested and got a normal number on your other kitty.

What is you kitty doing now?
How is her behaviour? have you called the vet for their thoughts?

Please keep trying to give food and dextrose mixed....you need to bring those levels up
I am sorry to jump in and be so bossy,but I know what those 20s look like...I am worried.

((((hugs)))
 
I have added the 911 to the heading to bring in more eyes, I suspect they will all echo me however.....
the ER is your friend when you can not bring levels up safely at home.

You did great getting last test by the way.

Keeping hopeful thoughts here for you.
 
okay, I am back - drops done. The only difference between the Relion ultra and the micro, that I am aware of is that the micro requires a smaller amount of blood for the testing. They are both reliable meters with good reviews. Most meters on the market have a 20% -/+ accuracy. That means, conceivably with your reading of 28 she is anywhere, in actuality, from 22.4 to 33.6. Both of which are still too low. Right now, I suggest that you use an eyedropper, or a syringe and squirt about a teaspoon of it, (dextrose, honey, or syrup), into her mouth (slowly, of course), and head out to the vet.

I have to agree with Kimmee that she is not rising at a safe level, and Spice likely needs to go to the veterinarian right away where she can be closely monitored and perhaps given IV dextrose.

I also agree that you should never, never let them push you into high doses again. You know now how to check her bgl yourself. You can safely monitor at home and gradually increase her from 1 unit if need be.

And, don't forget - dropping the dose means feeding only low carb foods to keep her levels normalized.
That Hill's food was likely keeping her alive on those 10 units a day simply because it is so high in carbs. It is/was a vicious cycle - feed hi-carb food (pouring gasoline on the fire of diabetes) - then shoot hi-dose of insulin to counteract the hi-carb food. Kitty's body reacts and liver dumps glucose to try and keep from going hypo - and this has been happening to her over and over again until Spice just could not cope anymore - so she crashed for the 2nd time in less than 2 weeks.

It will be so much easier for Spice to achieve a semblance of normalcy in her bgl readings if she is fed only lo-carb food - and given a very low dose of insulin to start. And slowly increase the dose ONLY if needed by .25 to .5 units at a time.

But - REMEMBER - please do not switch her to lo-carb food unless you are going to drop that insulin dose to 1 unit or less to start.

And, just to let you know, Stormy's last hypo event was a full 24 hours after his previous dose of insulin. And he was on micro doses by that point. So cats can hypo for hours after that last shot sometimes.

~M
 
yes her other test is done 28 .

Give you a little history. I just bought the monitro today.

Her insulin since th new years eve hypo

4 units on 1-2-09 9 am
3.5 units on 1-3-09 12 pm
3.5 units on 1-3-09 11 pm

and the list goes on but she has not had the 4 units until today.
 
i was under the impression that the hills prescriptive wet was low carb. and i switched her to that diet after the hypo on new years eve and i sprinkle friskies special diet dry food over it
 
no i haven't called the vet because there is no money since her last incident and they will not work with a paymnet plan.
 
does it matter on the ear where you test could that be giving me false numbers.

Spice is acting fine. She is just pissed.
 
Is there another ER you can call who will let you do payment?

Okay, you need to give her more food and rub that dextrose, karo syrup, whatever you have, onto her gums and mix in food. Let's get really serious about raising these levels.

What is her current behaviour?

Tuna does not have any real carbs, do you have anything else she will eat that does? What about crunchies, or temptation? ice cream, beef gravy, etc...

Anything you give her should have some sugar mixed in with it.

feed her the combo of food and sugar, if won't eat, rub on gums, and then give about 10 minutes and get another test.

Does that all make sense?
 
Anywhere on the ear should be the same. Could you test yourself and see what the level is?
That will confirm if is working or not.

Is Spice usually cranky?
I had a beautiful tortie long ago named Spice :)
 
i have been rubbing raspberyy jelly on her gums. and she has been licking it up.

She is acting just fine. just pissed.
 
Spice's mom - what is your name, please? And I understand about vets and not having any money to go see them, too. Boy, oh boy do I understand!

The Hill's RX diets substitute the fat content with carbs to lower the calories, but bulk up the feeling of being full. It is 30% or so in carb content. The Friskies Special Diet dry is also high in carb content, (Its first ingredient is Ground yellow corn), but it is low in things that are bad for renal issues - like phosphorous and magnesium. BUT dry food is counter productive for kidney/bladder issues, too. And corn? a HUGE no no for sugar kitties.

Right now, however, feed her every bit of the Friskies kibble that she will eat until she is beyond this crisis.

Once she is past the crisis - put it away and don;t let her have any ever again unless she is in another hypo crisis. That is, IF you are going to lower the dose of insulin going forward.

~M
 
Not wanting food is really worrying.....

Good okay so you know the readings you are getting are real...well done, poor other kitty :) A good friend to give up blood for Spice.

How long has it been since Spice has eaten some food? The tuna and bread was about 40 minutes ago?

Need to try and entice with anything, throw open the cupboards, try parmesan cheese on top, try warming wet food with warm water, try yoghurt, try literally anything and eanwhile work on another test and get her some dextrose...she should be starving, not wanting to eat is a symptom.
The body knows it needs food to raise the levels so not eating is a problem.

My Spice was also a calico tortie, looked a lot my avatar pic of " Abby"
 
tajana340 said:
well she really likes the friskies special diet wet beef and chicken.
Click to expand...

The CANNED (wet) Friskies Special diet in beef and chicken is a fine food for a sugar baby. Its an excellent choice, as a matter of fact. It is the kibble, (dry), Friskies Special diet that is a bad, bad choice for any cat.

~M
 
Hi guys, I cross posted this thread in the PZI forum.
So hopefully PZI users will will help with the insulin she is using.
 
tajana340 said:
i am wondering if this unit is not accurate since it is the relion ulta and not the relion micro meter
Click to expand...

The meter is most likely accurate. I have been using the ultima for years. See if you can get your cat to eat some more food.
 
You have to.....move bed, get serious...brain damage can happen at these prolonged lows.....hiding is a symptom, not eating a symptom, lethargy etc...worried for her.

need suagr/food asap...
really want an ER.
 
she is eating the friskies wet special diet beef and chicken with dextrose from the vet sprinkled over it.
 
tajana340 said:
she is eating the friskies wet special diet beef and chicken with dextrose from the vet sprinkled over it.
Click to expand...

She is eating that now? good. You said that you had some of the Friskies Special diet kibble, too - yes?
It is good to feed the high carb foods in a hypo crisis like this. If she will eat some now - that would be good.
Later, though, when this is all over - don't let her have the dry food once you drop the insulin dosage.

~M
 
Good eating is really good.

I misunderstood? You had said earlier she was sleepy and then not interested in food and then went under bed.....

main thing is food and sugar, and test. really glad to hear she is eating.
 
just rubbed jelly on her gums


she was sleepy because i wouldn't let her sleep and she just came out from under the bed a few mins ago

she is licking herself
 
she is not going to let me test her and my roomate is gooing to take over. I have to get some shut eye.

Will let everyone know what happens and she is eating again.
 
Please have room mate help you get a test before bed, it is so important to know that she is coming up and hasn't dropped down any further.
Can your room mate log into this board as you for help need be?
 
no i don't think he will.

I am sorry.
 

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I agree here - she really needs to be monitored till you see a rise in BG levels.
Knowing that she is eating isn't going to tell u she is at a safe number.

Please retest and if ur roommate can take over for u here that would be great.
 
tajana340 said:
she has been eating all nite long
Click to expand...

I am heading to bed, but wanted to clarify this one issue. She has been eating little bits of food all night and getting the dextrose off and on all night, and now the jelly, too. The deal is that Spice is going to have to keep this up until she crests above 70. What I have seen from the bgl readings that you are posting is that she starts to rise - then the bgl falls again.

That is happening because there is too much insulin in her body and her liver cannot cope anymore. It, (the insulin), pretty much has to sort of wear out, (for lack of a better term), now. In the meantime, you have to help Spice cope by giving her high carb foods and testing her frequently to make sure she crests to a safe bgl #.

You cannot change the insulin amount that she had before - in the past - but you can change the dose to a lower dose, (start at 1 unit), moving forward so that hopefully this will not happen to her again. Moving forward, You can put her on that canned Friskies Special Diet beef and chicken and let that be her only daily diet and you will have made a sound, safe choice of food for your diabetic kitty. Ditch the Hills, ditch the kibble - and just feed her the canned Friskies.

I know that you are scared, and stressed, and tired. But you have done a WONDERFUL job tonight of helping Spice while she is in crisis. You will continue to do a wonderful job with her - I just know it.

You have my phone number now - if you need to have a quick question answered, please don't hesitate to call.

I leave you in very capable hands with Kimmee and the others that are now coming online.

~M
 
Sweetgrass&theFurries said:
If you can;t get a test, I would bundle her and some dextrose and food and head to the vet;. She still is too low to let it ride and you don;t want to risk the effects of extended hypoglycemia.
Click to expand...

agree with kimmee. please read

also PLEASE keep in mind
Posted by: Jess & Earl (IP Logged)
Date: December 11, 2007 08:17AM

That there are physiologic symptoms that you cannot see so hypoglycemia should always be addressed i.e. you need to get the BG up if you are looking at LO or <30, even in a cat that has only one or two of the milder symptoms. Hypoglycemia can affect their blood pressure, heart rate, heart rhythm, etc and SEIZURES CAN BE NON-CONVULSIVE. I wish that everyone knew that. Brain cell death occurs with severe hypoglycemia regardless--the cat does not have to be seizing uncontrollably, nor, as peer-reviewed published medical studies show, does a seizure have to be "big" for brain damage to occur.

Now the consequences above are unlikely to occur in many of the milder episodes we see on this board: the cat's BG is 40, they eagerly eat their food, next BG is 53, then 62, etc. My point is to stress the need to take action when presented with a very low BG regardless of the cat's history, lifestyle, or previous experience. Unfortunately, cats do not have the capacity that dogs have to store a large amt of glucagon in their liver (glucagon converts to glucose as needed) so they may have even more trouble avoiding damage from an insulin overdose. Keep in mind that the insulin we inject may continue to act long after the animal's BG has gone too low (our own insulin wouldn't do this) so the animal has to continually work to keep its BG up ... meaning that you may see symptoms only when the cat or dog is having trouble matching the extent or duration of the drop caused by the injected insulin.

Hope this helps rather than confuses!

Jess
Entire thread here
 
I just read this thread and wanted to comment on the Relion issue. I have used the Relion meter for years, first the Ultima and then more recently switched over to the Micro....never had a problem and love the Micro, uses a very tiny amount of blood.

Day before yesterday I opened a new box of strips. It had new packaging that read "Confirm/micro test strips for use with ReliOn Confirm and Micro blood glucose meters only." The very first strip out of the box gave me a 65. I fed a bit of gravy to bring my Morris up since I was going out and congratulated myself that his dose reduction was working. Then after waiting 30 minutes, I retest and he was 278, then 308 five minutes later....no way was that a food spike! So the 65 was a false reading and Morris had a nice mc snack. When I came home two hours later he was 270. Then yesterday morning he w as 69 and 83 within minutes of each other at +8 and 106 at AMPS. At +2 he was 309 in the left ear and 225 in the right ear, one minute apart!!! No way!!!!

I took the strips back to Walmart and they put me on the phone with the tech support people, who agreed to send me a new package and the control solution, but my main concern was that the strips be reliable. They said that occasionally the strips are mishandled during shipping, getting either too hot or too cold, and they become unstable and produce errors. That's why they offer the test solution for free by just calling the 800#. I didn't know that, but I do now.

Even though the other cat tested at 69 does not prove inconclusively that the meter is working. Some of my readings were probably correct but who knows which ones?

Just imparting some information here, and hope it is of some use. Hope that sweet Spice is OK and her mama comes back to update shortly.
 
I use the reli on micro as well and over time have found that unless the right amount of blood is sipped by the strip you will get irregular readings. For example, if the drop is too small I get a very low reading, when that happens I retest and usually get a higher reading, when the blood drop is too big and the strip doesnt start sipping slowly from the side of the blood drop but is just pushed into too large a drop I get an irregularly high reading and must retest. The same thing happened with my contour, the amount of blood and the speed the strip sips it up can affect the reading.........just so you know.
I know about sore spots from testing, Poor Pippin has a bloody mangled tail a lot and we sometimes move to the toe pads to give it time to heal. If you warm the foot first and test on the side of a toe pad you can usually get enough for a test if the kitty will let you!
I hope after all you have been through this night that you will dramatically reduce his dose and that he is seeing safer numbers this morning. That is a very large dose and should have been reduced when he hypoed on New Years, it could also be that his pancreas is kicking in and adding to the equation.
 
Well done, Mary and Kimmee.... I do hope kitty is doing fine this morning.

May I just say one thing... Right after Sundance went diet controlled she did maintained a 1.8 (32) for a day. She then stayed at about 2.2 (39) and sometimes under for quite a while. I'm hoping that this kitty just has a super working pancreas and that she's not in trouble hypo-wise. I know her numbers were lower, but that could be meter variance too.

Looking forward to an update.

tajana340, please check in and let us know how everyone is... and also remember, no more than 1 unit insulin and only if she is above 200... Please let us know before you give another shot.
 
I hope she's doing well this morning!

Just a quick comment about the diet -- this cat is getting M/D, not W/D. M/D is only moderately high in carbohydrate; it's Hill's version of a low-carb diet.
 
Just seeing this.
Oh what is going on here?? Jeee... It's so amazing that all of you are helping so much! Incredible!
Well done..

I hope this kitty is okay.
 
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