Help with dosing please

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RochellenTiggs

RochellenTiggs

Member Since 2017
help.... I am new to this and have this guy he's on lantas and was started end of April he was originally on 2 units then he got sick and was at vet for mild uti they put him on purina over weight management food and said he was managed without insulin and not to test :( he was not acting right so I did and sure enough he was high sugars and I ran curve vet then said shot 1 unit twice a day and no need to test sugars well I have been pre shoot and continue to do so ... last night he was 11.6 and I gave one unit and he started to crash and I had to sugar and temptations intervene and today he was 16.9 and I have .75 a unit and now it's even pre shoot and it's low 9.3 and I am scared to shot I feed but need help and wonder if the low carb fancy feast is enough to manage him ? Help please
 
RochellenJelly said:
help.... I am new to this and have this guy he's on lantas and was started end of April he was originally on 2 units then he got sick and was at vet for mild uti they put him on purina over weight management food and said he was managed without insulin and not to test :( he was not acting right so I did and sure enough he was high sugars and I ran curve vet then said shot 1 unit twice a day and no need to test sugars well I have been pre shoot and continue to do so ... last night he was 11.6 and I gave one unit and he started to crash and I had to sugar and temptations intervene and today he was 16.9 and I have .75 a unit and now it's even pre shoot and it's low 9.3 and I am scared to shot I feed but need help and wonder if the low carb fancy feast is enough to manage him ? Help please
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Ok. Breath. Try to relax for your kitty. You can do this. Are you doing TR or SLGS?
 
Yong said:
Didn't mean you needed to post one for his situation tonight. If you need help with an active hypo situation, BG reading below 2.7. I'm going to keep other replies on your other thread.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-need-dosin-help-please.178570/#post-1972179
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I know now I made this before you responded and clarified yhev
GinnyBarr said:
One is tight regulation and one is start low go slow. When you have a chance they're are threads at the top of the Lantus forum. Picking one will.help you and help us help you. Why did you reduce to .75?
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becausehw crashed last night going to 3.2 at 4 hours post shoot
 
Ginny, it is "too soon" in regards to knowing what is the way to go with Jelly Belly. I know Rochelle is feeling very overwhelmed (and yes, she needs to breathe! heehee)

Rochelle, TR is "tight regulation" and SLGS is . . . hmmmm . . . "shoot low, go slow"? (I'll go check the stickies to confirm ;) )
 
Darcy and Lebowski said:
Ginny, it is "too soon" in regards to knowing what is the way to go with Jelly Belly. I know Rochelle is feeling very overwhelmed (and yes, she needs to breathe! heehee)

Rochelle, TR is "tight regulation" and SLGS is . . . hmmmm . . . "shoot low, go slow"? (I'll go check the stickies to confirm ;) )
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I know the feeling. It's so overwhelming in the beginning.
 
There are two protocols. Are you feeding any dry food? If yes you would follow SLGS. If not you have a choice to make. Lantus dosing is based upon the low point in the cycle, the nadir. You seem to only be testing before shooting except for last night.
 
Darcy and Lebowski said:
Ginny, it is "too soon" in regards to knowing what is the way to go with Jelly Belly. I know Rochelle is feeling very overwhelmed (and yes, she needs to breathe! heehee)

Rochelle, TR is "tight regulation" and SLGS is . . . hmmmm . . . "shoot low, go slow"? (I'll go check the stickies to confirm ;) )
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I'd feel better giving advice if I knew what she was gonna use.
 
GinnyBarr said:
Can you test often? Stay up late if necessary?
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We were up till 4 am last night and I was in hospital night myself being sick and I am exhausted but need to make sure I do right thing for him .... so let's clarify I will not shoot tonight but take sugars again and then start fresh in am ?
 
GinnyBarr said:
I'd feel better giving advice if I knew what she was gonna use.
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I don't know what that means I will do whatever someone tells me last advice I had and was following was shooting one unit twice a day checking sugars pre shoot and giving one unit after he had eaten and if bs was above 11.3
 
Good. Now please tell me what you are feeding. I love the name by the way!

Are you only feeding low carb fancy feast? You need to have karo or honey and some high carb food around in case Jelly drops too low tomorrow. What did you feed last night when her numbers dropped?
 
RochellenJelly said:
We were up till 4 am last night and I was in hospital night myself being sick and I am exhausted but need to make sure I do right thing for him .... so let's clarify I will not shoot tonight but take sugars again and then start fresh in am ?
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If you're not gonna shoot tonight, he most likely won't need any sugars. Test him again in an hour and just keep an eye on him. His number isn't very low, it's a great number.

What are you feeding him?
 
GinnyBarr said:
Can you test often? Stay up late if necessary?
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Rochelle participated in her first Pajama Party last night ;) With 3 kids, 2 dogs, and 2 other cats, OH, and she just got out of the hospital for a major asthma attack, I doubt she's ready for a second Party! LOL
(Sorry Rochelle! Hope you don't mind ;) heehee)

The woman is tired!
 
GinnyBarr said:
Ok great. I highly recommend the TR method. It takes a little more dedication, but it has the highest rate of kitties going into remission. Take a look at the TR thread. Tight Regulation. You shoot low numbers, so it takes some guts, lol, but we are all here to help you.
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"Shoot LOW to stay LOW" baby! ;)
 
GinnyBarr said:
Ok great. I highly recommend the TR method. It takes a little more dedication, but it has the highest rate of kitties going into remission. Take a look at the TR thread. Tight Regulation. You shoot low numbers, so it takes some guts, lol, but we are all here to help you.
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I am petrified of low miners and as of June 1 I am in classes all day 9-4 that's why the 8 am and 8 pm dosing schedule I can't monitor him all day once in school so what would that mean
 
tiffmaxee said:
Good. Now please tell me what you are feeding. I love the name by the way!

Are you only feeding low carb fancy feast? You need to have karo or honey and some high carb food around in case Jelly drops too low tomorrow. What did you feed last night when her numbers dropped?
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A couple weeks ago I'd given Rochelle an emergency kit with corn syrup, and a few tins of "contraband" wet food. (Sorry Rochelle, I must confess, I ate the chocolate bar that was meant to go in the kit . . . I'm weak )
 
While shoot low to stay low can work, there's always the danger she will drop. You don't need a pj party tonight. Get some rest. I wouldn't test except maybe a before bed test. Without insulin she won't drop. Leave food out if you can do that where the others won't get to it. Sweet dreams.

Oh and you can remove the 911.
 
tiffmaxee said:
While shoot low to stay low can work, there's always the danger she will drop. You don't need a pj party tonight. Get some rest. I wouldn't test except maybe a before bed test. Without insulin she won't drop. Leave food out if you can do that where the others won't get to it. Sweet dreams.

Oh and you can remove the 911.
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I tried removing it don't know how
 
GinnyBarr said:
I'd feel better giving advice if I knew what she was gonna use.
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I think it might be a little early for you to be giving dosing advice :) Sorry but you shouldn't have to rely on someone picking a method to decide on dosing especially in this instance.

Let's remember that Rochelle is new here and the no shoot number for new members is 200 mg/dL or 11.11 mmoL. I think Rochelle likely posted here because she might not have gotten a response on Health. She doesn't have enough data yet to really have her shoot especially if no one can stay with her.

Rochelle...Elise is right....there's no harm in skipping this time.

A couple things to point out:
--he's clearing a bounce and so numbers might be expected to keep dropping a bit
--you just reduced him this morning and the depot from Lantus can last up to six subsequent cycles. That might not happen for every cat but he definitely has a depot to account for.

It's ok to edit the subject line to take down that you have a 911 by looking at the top right of the thread and clicking "thread tools" and then selecting the edit option. You can change the title or if you ever need to add a 911 or "?", select from the dropdown to the left of the subject.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I think it might be a little early for you to be giving dosing advice :) Sorry but you shouldn't have to rely on someone picking a method to decide on dosing especially in this instance.

Let's remember that Rochelle is new here and the no shoot number for new members is 200 mg/dL or 11.11 mmoL. I think Rochelle likely posted here because she might not have gotten a response on Health. She doesn't have enough data yet to really have her shoot especially if no one can stay with her.

Rochelle...Elise is right....there's no harm in skipping this time.

A couple things to point out:
--he's clearing a bounce and so numbers might be expected to keep dropping a bit
--you just reduced him this morning and the depot from Lantus can last up to six subsequent cycles. That might not happen for every cat but he definitely has a depot to account for.

It's ok to edit the subject line to take down that you have a 911 by looking at the top right of the thread and clicking "thread tools" and then selecting the edit option. You can change the title or if you ever need to add a 911 or "?", select from the dropdown to the left of the subject.
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I would never tell her how much to shoot, just if the numbers were too low to shoot. I'm not stupid.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I think it might be a little early for you to be giving dosing advice :) Sorry but you shouldn't have to rely on someone picking a method to decide on dosing especially in this instance.

Let's remember that Rochelle is new here and the no shoot number for new members is 200 mg/dL or 11.11 mmoL. I think Rochelle likely posted here because she might not have gotten a response on Health. She doesn't have enough data yet to really have her shoot especially if no one can stay with her.

Rochelle...Elise is right....there's no harm in skipping this time.

A couple things to point out:
--he's clearing a bounce and so numbers might be expected to keep dropping a bit
--you just reduced him this morning and the depot from Lantus can last up to six subsequent cycles. That might not happen for every cat but he definitely has a depot to account for.

It's ok to edit the subject line to take down that you have a 911 by looking at the top right of the thread and clicking "thread tools" and then selecting the edit option. You can change the title or if you ever need to add a 911 or "?", select from the dropdown to the left of the subject.
Click to expand...
Thank you I believe I did edit the title and I am now want to clarify this is what I need to be doing and understand
Lantas is a 12 hour cycle you start the day with a pre shoot bs and remove food 1-2 hour prior to testing his sugars and then if bs is over 11.2 I shot the .75 and then a mid cycle would be a blood sugar 6 hours after the insulin shot and that's the lowest he will go ??
Then I would repeat for evening and then if he was to ever have the crash symptoms I test every 39 minutes doing the intervening stuff (gravy temptations and corn syrup if needed ) a crash is anything under 2.2 ?
 
RochellenJelly said:
Lantas is a 12 hour cycle you start the day with a pre shoot bs and remove food 1-2 hour prior to testing his sugars and then if bs is over 11.2 I shot the .75
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Yes, if the BG is high enough to give that dose. Post here for advice if you're unsure.

RochellenJelly said:
a mid cycle would be a blood sugar 6 hours after the insulin shot and that's the lowest he will go ??
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That's the exact middle of the cycle but the lowest BG can float around in time a bit. As you gather more BG data you'll learn JB's patterns.

RochellenJelly said:
if he was to ever have the crash symptoms I test every 39 minutes doing the intervening stuff (gravy temptations and corn syrup if needed )
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You'd test every 15 or 20 minutes in a crash situation and you'd be feeding small amounts of gravy food or sugary syrup around these test times to control the BG level.

RochellenJelly said:
a crash is anything under 2.2 ?
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The "take action" number on a human meter is 50 or 2.8.
 
RochellenJelly said:
Thank you I believe I did edit the title and I am now want to clarify this is what I need to be doing and understand
Lantas is a 12 hour cycle you start the day with a pre shoot bs and remove food 1-2 hour prior to testing his sugars and then if bs is over 11.2 I shot the .75 and then a mid cycle would be a blood sugar 6 hours after the insulin shot and that's the lowest he will go ??
Then I would repeat for evening and then if he was to ever have the crash symptoms I test every 39 minutes doing the intervening stuff (gravy temptations and corn syrup if needed ) a crash is anything under 2.2 ?
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Just be aware, although "technically" the 6 hour mark "should" be the lowest, not all cats are the same. His nadir (lowest he goes) has not really been written in stone yet as you've got just the one curve to reflect on. So you may test him at +6, and he may have been lower at +5, or may go lower at +7. Really, the curves are the only way to figure out what his body is doing with the insulin.

Where did you get 39 minutes from?! Just curious ;) If you are having a pajama party after the boy has dropped down very low, then it is fine to test even 15 minutes after you first give hi carb food. If no results in 15 minutes, and the numbers are dropping still, you can do the corn syrup. But I don't *think* that 39 minutes is a magic number ;) (I COULD be wrong!)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, if the BG is high enough to give that dose. Post here for advice if you're unsure.


That's the exact middle of the cycle but the lowest BG can float around in time a bit. As you gather more BG data you'll learn JB's patterns.


You'd test every 15 or 20 minutes in a crash situation and you'd be feeding small amounts of gravy food or sugary syrup around these test times to control the BG level.


The "take action" number on a human meter is 50 or 2.8.
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Thank you so much so last night he wasn't crashing but it was low like 3.2 was lowest last night and I acted with gravy and syrup because it was only 2 hours after insulin and he was 4.2 and I knew it was going to go lower and we did a pjparty because of that fact he went only to 3.2 between 2:42 am and he's doing was 8;30 pm we were scaling back and he's also started the new low carb food as opposed to food from vet and I seem to think it's making numbers lower
 
Darcy and Lebowski said:
Just be aware, although "technically" the 6 hour mark "should" be the lowest, not all cats are the same. His nadir (lowest he goes) has not really been written in stone yet as you've got just the one curve to reflect on. So you may test him at +6, and he may have been lower at +5, or may go lower at +7. Really, the curves are the only way to figure out what his body is doing with the insulin.

Where did you get 39 minutes from?! Just curious ;) If you are having a pajama party after the boy has dropped down very low, then it is fine to test even 15 minutes after you first give hi carb food. If no results in 15 minutes, and the numbers are dropping still, you can do the corn syrup. But I don't *think* that 39 minutes is a magic number ;) (I COULD be wrong!)
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It was even half hour 30'minutes slip of finger not 39 minutes lol
 
RochellenJelly said:
Thank you so much so last night he wasn't crashing but it was low like 3.2 was lowest last night and I acted with gravy and syrup because it was only 2 hours after insulin and he was 4.2 and I knew it was going to go lower and we did a pjparty because of that fact he went only to 3.2 between 2:42 am and he's doing was 8;30 pm we were scaling back and he's also started the new low carb food as opposed to food from vet and I seem to think it's making numbers lower
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Yes, a switch to low carb food can certainly affect his BG. You'll want to test more during this transition phase.
 
Ok I have to have an example please like can you give me a schedule like I learn best that way so I'd pre test 8 am take away food 2hrs prior and then shoot .75 unit if it's 11.2 or higher then test every 2 hours for how many days.
Ugh his poor ears i am also not great and sometimes takes me two pokes and he hates it :( but then I will figure this out right
 
You might want to read through "Can I do TR with a full time job..Yes!" .....no matter which dosing method you end up using, there are some good tips for people who can't be home every day to test

If you usually shoot at 8am/8pm, then no food from 6-8 so that when you get the Pre-shot tests, they're not under the influence of food....then you feed/shoot (all within about 5-10 minutes)

You don't need to test every 2 hours every day....Even on TR if you can get both PreShot tests and 1 mid-cycle on the AM and a "before bed" on the PM, that's enough

On SLGS, if you can't get mid-cycles on the AM cycle due to work/school, you'd still want to get PM tests....at least the "before bed" test but (depending on what time you go to bed), if you can get a couple of tests like at +2 and +4, that's even better. Most cats do go lower at night so it's important for safety to at least get that "before bed" test in case he's dropping and you need to set an alarm for more tests later.

Then on your days off, you'd run a curve....Test every 2 hours for 12 hours or every 3 hours for 18 hours
 
How about this?

  1. remove all food at 6 AM
  2. test at 8 AM
  3. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  4. feed breakfast meal
  5. give 0.75 u insulin
  6. test again at least once around 5 to 7 hours after AM insulin dose
  7. take all food away at 6 PM
  8. test at 8 PM
  9. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  10. feed evening meal
  11. give 0.75 u insulin
  12. test once before bed.
This can be your routine going forward. The only thing that might change is the size of the insulin dose if the BG numbers warrant. You won't have to decide that yourself though. Just post here for advice. Your goal is to gather as much BG data as you can in the coming days so you can see what JB's response patterns are.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
How about this?

  1. remove all food at 6 AM
  2. test at 8 AM
  3. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  4. feed breakfast meal
  5. give 0.75 u insulin
  6. test again at least once around 5 to 7 hours after AM insulin dose
  7. take all food away at 6 PM
  8. test at 8 PM
  9. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  10. feed evening meal
  11. give 0.75 u insulin
  12. test once before bed.
This can be your routine going forward. The only thing that might change is the size of the insulin dose if the BG numbers warrant. You won't have to decide that yourself though. Just post here for advice. Your goal is to gather as much BG data as you can in the coming days so you can see what JB's response patterns are.
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Yes this is exactly what I need I will print this and follow it thank you
 
GinnyBarr said:
Well, you don't have to be rude about it. It's not necessary.
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I certainly didn't intend to be rude so I apologize if you took it that way but it is important that each of us know our limits in our knowledge even though we are very anxious to help.

Rochelle....let me see if I can tie this together for you.

When a member is new and collecting data, they are often posting initially on the Main Health Forum where the "no shoot number" is anything below 200 mg/dL or 11.11 mmol/L.

The reason is because none of us, including you, know how your kitty might react to a dose. By gathering some data by doing random spot checks, you can start to see how he might react to a dose.

In this forum, because it is more advanced and faster moving here (and we assume you will have "some" data), we don't really have a set "no shoot number" but we typically say that if kitty gives a preshot below 150 mg/dL or 8.3 mmol/L, that you should not feed him or shoot but should post here for help.

We can walk you through learning to shoot below 150 gradually and, if someone helps you shoot below 150, there is a commitment to stay with you or tag team so there is someone with you.

We also have methods that can help you learn to shoot those numbers just below 150 like stalling, shooting a reduced dose, etc.

Right now, it's best to try and get spot checks during the cycles so you can build a little data. It's also good for you to read information on the Main Health forum and at the top of this one.

At some point when you are feeling more comfortable, you can decide if you want to follow the Start Low Go Slow Method or the Tight Regulation Protocol. But there is no rush right now.

Does that help? Please let me know any questions you have about the info I've provided. And any time you have questions, just ask. We have a wealth of knowledge and members are happy to help.
 
I think I am going to follow the schedule someone posted and collect more data on Jelly and then do my homework and read these
Marje and Gracie said:
I certainly didn't intend to be rude so I apologize if you took it that way but it is important that each of us know our limits in our knowledge even though we are very anxious to help.

Rochelle....let me see if I can tie this together for you.

When a member is new and collecting data, they are often posting initially on the Main Health Forum where the "no shoot number" is anything below 200 mg/dL or 11.11 mmol/L.

The reason is because none of us, including you, know how your kitty might react to a dose. By gathering some data by doing random spot checks, you can start to see how he might react to a dose.

In this forum, because it is more advanced and faster moving here (and we assume you will have "some" data), we don't really have a set "no shoot number" but we typically say that if kitty gives a preshot below 150 mg/dL or 8.3 mmol/L, that you should not feed him or shoot but should post here for help.

We can walk you through learning to shoot below 150 gradually and, if someone helps you shoot below 150, there is a commitment to stay with you or tag team so there is someone with you.

We also have methods that can help you learn to shoot those numbers just below 150 like stalling, shooting a reduced dose, etc.

Right now, it's best to try and get spot checks during the cycles so you can build a little data. It's also good for you to read information on the Main Health forum and at the top of this one.

At some point when you are feeling more comfortable, you can decide if you want to follow the Start Low Go Slow Method or the Tight Regulation Protocol. But there is no rush right now.

Does that help? Please let me know any questions you have about the info I've provided. And any time you have questions, just ask. We have a wealth of knowledge and members are happy to help.
Click to expand...
needs
Kris & Teasel said:
How about this?

  1. remove all food at 6 AM
  2. test at 8 AM
  3. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  4. feed breakfast meal
  5. give 0.75 u insulin
  6. test again at least once around 5 to 7 hours after AM insulin dose
  7. take all food away at 6 PM
  8. test at 8 PM
  9. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  10. feed evening meal
  11. give 0.75 u insulin
  12. test once before bed.
This can be your routine going forward. The only thing that might change is the size of the insulin dose if the BG numbers warrant. You won't have to decide that yourself though. Just post here for advice. Your goal is to gather as much BG data as you can in the coming days so you can see what JB's response patterns are.
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@marge and Gracie this one
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Sorry....are you asking my thoughts on what Kris posted?
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No no I was saying that's what I was going to follow for right now while I educate myself on the other schedules and then make a decision and based on that' just tagged you so you knew what I was up to with him because you have been so helpful
 
RochellenJelly said:
No no I was saying that's what I was going to follow for right now while I educate myself on the other schedules and then make a decision and based on that' just tagged you so you knew what I was up to with him because you have been so helpful
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Ok...great!!! Thank you. Many of us have found that giving food at the same time as the shot is helpful as it distracts kitty. So you don't have to feed and then shoot. You can do it simultaneously.

Also, you might find you want to give some of his food when you shoot and some a couple hours later just to help when the insulin onsets.

By the way, since you skipped, if you want to adjust his shot time to something besides 8/8, tomorrow morning would be the time to do it. So if you prefer a 7/7 shot time, just test/feed/shoot within about 15 mins around 7 a.m. You will then just need to adjust the times on the chart Kris laid out.
 
Last edited:
HEY
Kris & Teasel said:
How about this?

  1. remove all food at 6 AM
  2. test at 8 AM
  3. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  4. feed breakfast meal
  5. give 0.75 u insulin
  6. test again at least once around 5 to 7 hours after AM insulin dose
  7. take all food away at 6 PM
  8. test at 8 PM
  9. if BG is 11.1 or higher, give 0.75 u - if lower, post here for advice
  10. feed evening meal
  11. give 0.75 u insulin
  12. test once before bed.
This can be your routine going forward. The only thing that might change is the size of the insulin dose if the BG numbers warrant. You won't have to decide that yourself though. Just post here for advice. Your goal is to gather as much BG data as you can in the coming days so you can see what JB's response patterns are.
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HEY I FOLLOWED THIS AND HE WAS SO LOW AT 8 95.4 WHAT NOW STALLED FED NOT COMING UP MUCH
 
Sorry nobody saw this. When younstall you don't feed. We want to know if he is coming up without food. What was his BG after stalling and how much after you fed him?
 
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