? HELP!! Threw up 2x after eating

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Govies mom (Karen)

Govies mom (Karen)

Member Since 2017
Amps 397 Lantus 1 1/2 u. Hello I'm not sure I'm doing this right I just started a spreadsheet from the 19th of July when I had a problem with her with the 52 reading. Hopefully if you look at that you can see where I'm going. I'm transitioning from Purina DM dry and I tried this once before about 6 months ago and that's why I went back on the dry although I'm convinced that that's not the way to go I'm trying this again I feed Fancy Feast pate three times a day I just started doing the amps and pmps testing.
 
The only consolation I have with this is I got up late this morning and if she's not right on schedule she'll throw up. She's been good and hasn't thrown up for quite some time so I'm a little concerned, although she is playing with her laser lite & she seems fine
 
Hi. I'm confused by your dosing. You seem to have been skipping around a lot. Who is advising you? Do you intend to follow a protocol? Did you stop the DM cold turkey or gradually?

I understand decreasing according to what your vet said but then you increased by 1/2 unit when it looks like he was bouncing. Around here .25 increases are the norm. It's also helpful to link condos. Since lantus is based on the lows it's important to get those +5-7 tests. Preshot s are important as youndnt want to shoot if too low and especially if not monitoring.
 
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Hey thanks for the reply. I'm new to doing this spreadsheet and I'm hoping I'm doing it all right, but I've been very well stabilized pretty much for the last year. However two things happened, on the 19th of July I got a BG at + 5 of 52. That was my last strip for my alphatrak meter. Not having money to afford those strips I got a human meter & stopped insulin as noted on my spreadsheet. However days later at the vet my human meter red 110 points lower than the alpha track. Prior to that I was on 3 units Lantus twice a day and I was testing every other day at + 5. Having had this scare older the cat showed no signs of hypo activity thank God on the 1st of August I did the spreadsheet and I'm trying to do the pre shot testing and weaning off of the dry food. The second thing I found in doing so was that I would say for the past 6 months I was steady at three units twice a day and I had some reading on the alphatrak below 300. Ranging from 147-250. Unaware that I was probably will not probably I was giving her too much insulin so now as of the 1st I'm trying to get this all straight
 
May I suggest that you read the stickies on dosing? I know you aren't new at this but I find it hard to imagine a cat being on the same dose for so long. I had to keep adjusting Max's dose and over the close to 4 years on this site see most people if not all do as well. I'm not at all sure what dose you should be at now but others might be able to help with that and then I suggest following losing either TR or SLGS. I'm sure you will figure this out.
 
Hi Govies mom, You will notice most folks here use human meters, the strips are cheaper. There is a difference in the reading, but when in the lower numbers, not enough to make a difference, the difference appears more in the higher numbers, but either way the cat is too high when you see those high numbers. If money is tight, you probably want to use the human meter.

I was a little confused too with the spreadsheet, I think this am you gave 1.5 units, but the dosage was changed multiple time in the last few days. Which makes it impossible to tell if kitty is getting too much or too little. You need to hold the dose longer, as it takes Lantus up to 6 cycles to build the depo when there is a dose change. He got a nice BG on the 08/01 during mid cycle. The higher numbers after that, is probably a bounce from the 169, which can also take a few cycles to clear. It doesn't mean an increase is needed. It's normal for the BG to jump up when a low BG happens that the cat isn't used to having any more. His body says wooo what is that, and bounces his numbers up. His body needs to get used to lower numbers that all.

The best advice I have at the moment is please please test before you shoot. Get mid cycle tests in when every you can, and before bed. Do a curve once a week if you can (I admit it I was terrible at getting my curves done).

good job setting up the SS and for reaching out for help. keep asking questions. I am sure more experience folks will provide input to you post through out the day. Take this time to look at some of the other posts, other spreadsheet, and review the stickies a bit at a time (lots of info, so read a bit at a time, ask question if you need clarification)
 
Here's the thing, under the Vets recommendation we were at the three units most recently until the 19th of July when I got the reading of 52. I called the vet he said no insulin that night to feed in 20 minutes and test again. Well I had no other strips so I fed her she seemed fine gave a little Karo and I got a human meter the rest is in my former message. So coming back to here, I read a lot of posts, the stickies and feeding info from dr. Lisa more than once. That said, I found contradiction everywhere I turnt. Yes I am a bit confused, but confident that I will find the correct solution. I thank God for this site as it has been a major eye-opener and instrumental in furthering my knowledge of this disease. As I said I'm starting fresh as of the first using the spreadsheet & the pre-shot testing. Please keep in mind that I I'm coming in at an angle with this because of the 52 reading on the 19th. So I have several things I'm dealing with in trying to get a regimen going. To add to it the reason I went up the half unit this morning was because the amps was almost 400. I did have a full set of labs done and tested for ketones on June 17th at my vet and everything came back good
 
Hey thanks Nat, in an effort to start fresh again, I have changed yes a few things.. such as my vet said to give 1/2 unit once a day, whereas I got responses from here to split it into doses being a quarter twice a day which made sense to me from the door. So that's what I did, that said, and mind you I'm still learning..didn't even know about the depot, I'm trying to make decisions based on the higher numbers I started getting. And now I'm not sure which is really frustrating to me most of all, is why that alphatrak which is supposed to be so good is reading much higher than the human meter I mean not 20 or 30 points it was 110 difference. So now I really really don't know which reading is true which really is the ultimate ruling for us to go by in a decision of how much insulin to give
 
Hello and welcome.
Govies mom said:
To add to it the reason I went up the half unit this morning was because the amps was almost 400. I
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Here we determine what dose to give, based primarily on how low it takes the kitty. The low point, or nadir, is somewhere in the middle of the cycle. Unless it's not - we are dealing with unpredictable cats after all. :cat: Hence we test before each shot, to make sure it's safe to give insulin.

Make sure you read the sticky not on the Insulin Depot. Lantus (and Levemir) are depot insulins, and it's much easier for us to figure out what dose to give once the depot is stable, and that takes roughly 6 cycles in a row on the same dose.

One other change I'll suggest, is to get some spot checks at night. Many kitties go lower at night and if we are trying to spot the lows, that's a good time to test. A before bed test is a good one.

The AT is closer to the human meter in lower numbers, much higher in high numbers. There is no translation from one set of numbers to the other though we do use 68 AT as the 50 on the human meter and the point at which we take action with carbs. Our dosing methods have been written using human meters, that and the test strips costs are the main reason people here use human meters.
 
Okay, in an effort to zero in on one thing at a time, here's a question. Concerning meters.. I got a reading on my human meter of 220, and from the same blood the alpha track read 339. Now to me that's a pretty big spread & frankly, I am totally at a loss as to where to go from there. Of course the vet said Don't listen to everything online and use the alphatrak it's meant for animals and so on. Any feedback on where I should go from that point other than what I did is greatly appreciated
 
Though I am still pretty new at this, I can say that I have learned one major thing, most vets have very little training when it comes to diabetes in animals. I have read enough on this site to know that I would probably trust advice here before I would my vets, mainly because there is a huge pool of experience here to learn from, where as your vet probably only has a handful of hours of training. You also can easily test for ketones at home, and while you are working on regulating (so getting higher numbers) it is good to test ketones regularly at home.

As the numbers get higher on the meters, the variance is greater, but at the lower end that is much more important for preventing hypos, they are much closer on numbers. Pay attention to the signatures of those on here who are helping, you will see what meters they are using the most.
 
Regarding the meter I think (of course is my opinion ) it really doesn't matter which one you use, you can decide based on cost (I understand pet meters stripes are more expensive than human's) or just preference, but since there is not really a way of comparing both you need to either use both separately (keep track of your results on both, I've seen some people in here do it )or stick to one so that you can then see how your kitty is doing, comparing them is not a good idea

Both me and my vet use a human meter because there are no pet meters where I live, and we have been doing ok, the protocols give you the guides using numbers on human meters
 
Meredith thank you my thoughts exactly I was just looking on everybody's profiles to see what meters they were using LOL. Later on this afternoon I'm going to Walmart and get me a ReliOn. Also with regards to the vets knowledge I couldn't agree with you more, being a stepdaughter of a doctor (human that is) myself, I definitely felt as though the vets advice was more in the order of 'take two aspirins and call me in the morning'. As I said for the past 2 years I was testing 5 hours after the am shot, every other day. As stated from quite a few members on this board and I strongly agree with, vets are not intensely schooled or have studied in-depth this disease. Now I am making a shift in my protocol and I have a lot of things coming at me at once. But the life of my little girl is at stake I means more to me then I can say as you I'm sure well know. Now I'm going to get the human meter later today I am still weaning off to Purina DM dry food it's been a week and I have just got done reading dr. Lisa's post yet again. As far as transitioning off dry completely. But I thank everyone for being there
 
Govies mom said:
here's a question. Concerning meters.. I got a reading on my human meter of 220, and from the same blood the alpha track read 339. Now to me that's a pretty big spread & frankly, I am totally at a loss as to where to go from there.
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First, I don't see that reading in the spreadsheet, so don't know when it was. 220/239 could mean something as far as how his numbers are trending this cycle, or not, depending on when it was. Second, 220 or 339 don't really matter much when it comes to our dosing methods. It's still too high a number. Your goal is to eventually get them into either mostly green on the human meter and some green/low blues on the AT. Of course, it's over time and our dosing methods will get you there in a safe manner.

Read the Start Low Go Slow method Sticky Notes as you would follow that one as there is dry food in the picture. SLGS would have you hold the same dose for 14 cycles or 7 days, unless he goes below 90. I might start with 1.0 unit, as he got a mid blue on that dose. And it's the starting dose for a kitty on dry food. At the end of the 7 days, you do a curve and evaluate the dose to see if you need to increase. Lantus will teach you patience. The nature of the depot means it's best to hold the dose for a while.
 
Hi Wendy that reading with the discrepancy was done at 2 p.m. on July 30th at the vet's office I pretty sure I put one or the other maybe on the spreadsheet I have to look but didn't know how to put both although I did I think put a comment about it
 
Sorry, I thought it was today's reading. We have had a number of people compare their human and AT meters with the same drop of blood to try to find a pattern. No dice.
 
Hey no apologies Wendy I'm glad you're there. But as far as the no dice comment, I figured that not even knowing anything about anything, however it leaves a highly important issue as to the ratio of insulin to the reading which is indeterminable, really, when you think about it..which is giving you the right reading
 
Hey thanks Veronica beautiful kitty my partial is Siamese actually but I have had one chocolate Point Himalayan in the past wonderful wonderful pets. However regarding your post I am going to get a human meter this afternoon and I'm going to go with the reading on that and I'm sure it's going to read lower than this AT. I'm going to totally discontinue the dry I made up my mind it's been a week and I've been cutting down a little by little. I'm going to stop completely by Sunday.
 
Ok so we had a +5 222 & pmps 379. Considering the replies and information from the stickies on the SL GS protocol, I shot one unit and we'll stick with that for the seven days as recommended. I will test more frequently in the days to come to get a better idea of her curve. I am slowly taking away the dry as I had said earlier however after re-reading dr. Lisa's transition notes I chose to take her advice of putting a little bit of dry down twice a day for 20 minutes and then taking it up. I was going to stop it completely this Sunday but I think I might need to carry it through another week while I get this BG and Depot figured out. Any suggestions for advice or comments is greatly appreciated thank you all
 
Hi Karen, sorry I missed your question when you posted it. You have gotten really excellent advice. The only thing I would add is to keep weaning her off the dry food; I know they really love it but it's like giving a human diabetic a box of donuts and telling them to dive in! Just do it slowly and gradually, because you may have to reduce her insulin dose as the carbs in her diet are reduced. Test lots!!! :):):)
 
Good morning Lucy..glad to have heard from you. So many questions and I just don't want to do too little or too much too fast or too slow that makes sense. As far as weaning off I was going to finish the whole bit this Sunday however I think I might stick it out another week because of what I learned about the depot and getting regimented on the SLGS protocol. Now I didn't give her any food through the night and I have a strong feeling when I feed her this morning she's going to throw up again because when she skips him me over she's not able to feed when she wants I don't know if she gorges it or what but she'll throw up. I just wish I had something to follow instead of my own mind and ideas from everyone..you know what I mean. Like, she's laying here with me now and she doesn't look comfortable she doesn't look happy she's not all curled up with her legs sticking out of her bed you know what I mean. I don't know if she's hungry or what, and the ears, the amount of times I'm picking her ear now last couple days. I mean there's tiny little red marks and I just can't imagine how often these people test and test and test and I understand the importance No Doubt but her ears I feel so bad I feel so bad
 
Govies mom (Karen) said:
Good morning Lucy..glad to have heard from you. So many questions and I just don't want to do too little or too much too fast or too slow that makes sense. As far as weaning off I was going to finish the whole bit this Sunday however I think I might stick it out another week because of what I learned about the depot and getting regimented on the SLGS protocol. Now I didn't give her any food through the night and I have a strong feeling when I feed her this morning she's going to throw up again because when she skips him me over she's not able to feed when she wants I don't know if she gorges it or what but she'll throw up. I just wish I had something to follow instead of my own mind and ideas from everyone..you know what I mean. Like, she's laying here with me now and she doesn't look comfortable she doesn't look happy she's not all curled up with her legs sticking out of her bed you know what I mean. I don't know if she's hungry or what, and the ears, the amount of times I'm picking her ear now last couple days. I mean there's tiny little red marks and I just can't imagine how often these people test and test and test and I understand the importance No Doubt but her ears I feel so bad I feel so bad
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Fortunately, their ears have very few nerve endings in the area where we test. It probably looks worse than it feels to her. Look at Squallie's spreadsheet, I test him a lot, and he still comes running to me every time the kit comes out (his favorite treats are his reward for the ear pokes, it's the only time he gets that particular type of treat)! After you have tested, hold the ear with a tissue, cotton ball, whatever you use, and apply gentle pressure for a few seconds; it helps stop the bleeding and keep the site from bruising. You can also apply a very thin coat of Neosporin ointment with pain relief to the site. Some people, me included, sometimes use the ointment before the poke as it helps the blood droplet to bead up instead of dispersing through the fur.

Lots of times cats will throw up in the mornings because their stomachs get too empty during the night, causing a build-up of stomach acid, and sometimes making them feel nauseated If you can't feed her a snack at some point during the night, or leave some food out for her (timed feeders work great!) try only giving her a bit of food at a time until her tummy adjusts to having food in it again. I have a morning barfer, too, although he barfs for lots of other reasons, as well...
 
Squalliesmom said:
Fortunately, their ears have very few nerve endings in the area where we test. It probably looks worse than it feels to her. Look at Squallie's spreadsheet, I test him a lot, and he still comes running to me every time the kit comes out (his favorite treats are his reward for the ear pokes, it's the only time he gets that particular type of treat)! After you have tested, hold the ear with a tissue, cotton ball, whatever you use, and apply gentle pressure for a few seconds; it helps stop the bleeding and keep the site from bruising. You can also apply a very thin coat of Neosporin ointment with pain relief to the site. Some people, me included, sometimes use the ointment before the poke as it helps the blood droplet to bead up instead of dispersing through the fur.

Lots of times cats will throw up in the mornings because their stomachs get too empty during the night, causing a build-up of stomach acid, and sometimes making them feel nauseated If you can't feed her a snack at some point during the night, or leave some food out for her (timed feeders work great!) try only giving her a bit of food at a time until her tummy adjusts to having food in it again. I have a morning barfer, too, although he barfs for lots of other reasons, as well...
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I'm in Walmart now getting a ReliOn confirm I believe that's the one you use correct
 
AMPS 387 +3 316. This was with my alphatrak 2 almost totally off the dry I put some down today to meal feed and no one wanted any yay! I got a ReliOn confirm meter at Walmart today, so if you're out there Lucy, any pointers would be appreciated because I know you use this meter. I know I'm going to have to change my spreadsheet to reflect the human meter which I'm sure I'll learn to do
 
Hi.

I'm not Lucy, but I'll chime in on the switch of meters. It's hard not to compare when you have both, but I recommend you put your AT away and only use as a back up, because comparing the numbers will drive you completely bonkers! The "accuracy" isn't as important as trends. Of course, you pay attention to lower numbers, but you're look for a range. Don't know if that makes sense.

On your SS, just add a blank line between the section where you used the AT and where you're starting the ReliOn, and write in it that you've switched. Please change that in your signature block, too.

Lucy mentioned a timed feeder. If you don't have one, they are a great investment. You can set it to give small meals through the night (or day when you're out), and have it turn to an empty slot two hours before shot time so that the PS number isn't affected by food. The one most of us use is the Petsafe Five Meal Feeder. It's available online and some Petsmarts and Petcos carry it, too.

One request I have for you is that you start a new thread, or "condo", each day. If you carry on in the same one, it gets too long to follow. We ask that you link your previous day's condo in your first post of the day, and that way others can easily look back at what has been said previously.
 
Yes I did read that in the sticky and chose to just follow this column I wasn't sure because we were on here very early this morning. I will start a new one just have to learn how to link it. Also when answering a certain person in a thread okay do I hit the little reply button under your post to quote what you said or just start another reply underneath like I just did?
 
I like to use the reply under the person post, if I am responding to what they said.

There are a couple other changes you will need to do to the spread sheet, as the conditional formatting rules to display the colors based on BG number are slightly different. Are you by chance comfortable with excel / spread sheets?
 
Marvin's Mom - Nat said:
I like to use the reply under the person post, if I am responding to what they said.

There are a couple other changes you will need to do to the spread sheet, as the conditional formatting rules to display the colors based on BG number are slightly different. Are you by chance comfortable with excel / spread sheets?
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Never did one but it really doesn't matter I'm pretty good with anything like that never did one of these either I usually get the gist of it in and can go by on my own. Of course except for this diabetes stuff LOL don't know I do without you guys. Just tell me what to do I saw the Excel option on my spreadsheet I mean I can always mess with it and and see what happened I just don't want to lose mine I got to see how to duplicate a plain sheet of mine because I got to do new one anyway since I changed the ReliOn meter
 
Govies mom (Karen) said:
Just tell me what to do I saw the Excel option on my spreadsheet I mean I can always mess with it and and see what happened I just don't want to lose mine
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Since you don't have much info yet, what I would do is download the human meter spread sheet, the conditional formatting will be correct for the meter you plan to use going forward.

Not to lose your previous data, I would either copy all the rows with data and past it in the new SS or Add a tab that only contains that information and paste it there.

If you want both on the same sheet, Just add a blank row below row 2. in that row enter Alph track bla bla bla.....
Then go to the row with the last day using the old meter, and enter the new meter information on the next row.

This would be quicker than fixing the conditional formatting, it is a pain and the google version makes it hard to make sure you caught all the needed updates, I accidently selected the wrong SS, didn't notice for months and I am still trying to correct all the issues, plus I use the global one so adds an other layer complexity :(
 
Squalliesmom said:
The Relion Confirm is a good meter, hope you have luck with it!
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Well there's a double entry for today's +6 entry showing the ReliOn reading almost 100 points lower than AT at 395. I started cutting down the amount of dry food as well as not leaving it out all the time I just putting it down two or three times for 20 minutes. Today I went to put the dry down for the first 20 minute session and none of them would eat it. I have two civies also. Now as I'm keeping to this regimen I do remember now that last time I tried to take the dry away, her numbers went up instead of down. Realizing this may be too soon to tell as I've been advised to keep the same dose through a 7-Day period. But I must say going through this day on all wet Fancy Feast pate, they're sleeping like babies cleaning themselves and seem very content. Last night however they were looking at me, tails in the air, meowing and I know there were saying Mom where's my crunchies? LOL and today, ended up being the cut off. Why even bother with the dry anymore at all? In my heart of hearts I feel it's the right decision I just hope they respond as I've been reading and learning and hoping that they will
 
Yes the pet vs human is slightly different, pet meter is higher. The lower the BG the small the difference between the two, the higher the BG the larger the difference is between the two meters. It is ok, as it give us the patterns, bottom line High is High, for lower numbers the difference is very small, so you can manage and monitor low numbers. My vet uses a human meter, seen a few people her mention that too.
 
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