Help!!! Squamee is dropping

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judy and squamee(GA)

judy and squamee(GA)

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Shot 1u at 7:30 am with amps of 253. At +4.25 she is 79. I think nadir is not for another 2 hours. I just gave her some food with gravy, and she ate some. Anything else for me to do?
 
To bring up the BG pretty quickly, if that's you aim, put a little maple syrup or Karo Syrup on Squamee's front paws. Test again after about a hour. Should bring the numbers up.

Kathleen & Fred
Diagnosed 12/24/10
 
79 is a normal non diabetic number
prozinc nadir in many cats is at +4, but could go as late as +8. In my experience the nadir gets later, the longer you are on prozinc but every cat is different.

I would hesitate to use syrup yet, unless it drops more, like under 50. so retest
 
I got some fast big drops when I started prozinc. I'm with Nancy - 79 is just fine... so far. Just keep testing at least every hour. Keep posting and I'll try to keep an eye on things here. And make sure she has food out to eat. Many times when they feel their BGs go down to quickly they will want to eat to self correct this.

Do have the how to treat a hypo instructions [sticky in the Health forum] printed out and read them just in case. But I have a feeling things will be fine but I can't promise that.

If this drop is a little more than you want at this time period, for your next shot you may want to reduce to .6u if you are using u-100 syringes or even .4u if the PS number is lower tonight. Then you can always work back up if you need to.
 
is it me or is this a beautiful #? i'm not worried, a quike drop is ok and is not likely to spell more quike dropping. i'm very very happy with this #.
tom's a fast dropper and that's why this is my take...
love your number :mrgreen: it's GREEN (on the spread sheet)
 
please update ss

you can add multiple numbers into the same box like this:

79
+ 4.5;
xx
4.75

and then hand color it green (highlight the box, then up at the top use color selector)
 
I agree green is good. :smile: But I just want to voice the background info that Judy's goals may be a little different than most here and the vet is a little worried about lowish numbers as related to the seizures Squamee has been having. I would expect that they might want to take things a little less fast than most here.

I know my goals with H were a little different than most here too - remission was not the goal. Heck I don't know what your goals are Judy. Whatever works for you and your kitty. :smile:
 
oh that's right, the seizures, i remember now. thanks.
as for goals. the only goals that are even reasonable is to see green each day at least once.
the rest is up to the cat no?
 
My goals with H were more focused on the PSs - keeping them as low as possible, ideally below 150. I didn't like testing and I never tested at night. So there was always going to be a period at night that I had no idea what was going on. And H would go on fairly sudden food strikes which made me always play things safer too. So I tended to aim for nadirs above 80 - they would occasionally go lower but never hypo territory as far as I knew. I don't know - that was just us.
 
Harley tends to drop at +4 than surfs through +7, if that makes you feel any better.

I would reduce the dose since you're trying to stay away from seizures.

I'm glad you decided to test befor +6. The gravy should bring her up. Are you still testing?
 
Sorry it took me so long to get back. +6 182. I don't know if that is because of the food with gravy (she didn't eat a lot) or the nadir was earlier than +6. I am inclined to shoot .4 or .6 tonight. What do you think?
 
I would go with .4u and err on the side of caution.

You can always increase later if that isn't enough.

She's probably coming up because of the gravy, you might see a higher PMPS # but don't react to it, it's the carbs and they will wear off.

When Harley started Prozinc his nadir was at +3, then moved to +5, then to +7, now he drops around +4 and surfs through +7 or +8. It takes awhile for the Prozinc to settle in.

I'm glad everything turned out ok.
 
Thank you,Rob. God, you must have done a lot of testing to find out all those different nadirs!!! It is very hard for me to do that---both because of my work schedule and Squamee's lack of cooperation. It is going to be anxiety provoking for me to not really know when her nadir is. Got to remind myself to keep breathing! And this is so complicated by her having a probable brain tumor and past seizure---I am not sure what is or is not harmful for her, or really what to expect.
My goals are to help her to be as comfortable as possible---and I find it quite a struggle to evaluate that.
 
i still don't understand why squamee was given high carb at that #. are we not trying to stay at least in the high greens low 100's. was this an apropriate time to high carb him?
just fill in my blanks for me.
 
The vet had told me to give higher carb food if she went below 150. So I got scared. Actually, in her history, she has gone as low as 35 without a hypo episode. But I don't know how this brain tumor factors in to anything.
 
I think you did OK Judy under the circumstances. That 150 number to be giving high carb food IMHO seems high. But you can make whatever decisions you need to make. Evidently Squamme did just fine at 79 [let alone 150] so that was a good test - you've gathered some good data. :smile:

I had just shared this with Robin and thought I would share with you too Judy:
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_glucose_level
 
Thanks for the link, Gator. I was just looking at it, and it supports my feeling that my vet is aiming at keeping her numbers too high. He originally told me that he didn't want her on insulin until she remained solidly in the 350 range. I had to convince him that I could do testing often enough to know if she was really dropping. My problem is that I just don't know how to factor in her probable brain tumor and prior seizure. When I asked him why he did not want her below 150, he said she was seizure prone and lower BG could be a problem. My gut says otherwise, but I am also afraid to ignore him. I have been learning a lot about diabetes here, but nothing about brain tumors. Maybe there is no interaction, and if she is going to have a seizure from whatever the tumor is doing, maybe she will have it irrespective of her BG level. But how do I know?
 
I'm sure its scary and frustrating to not really know what you are dealing with, but try to think positively. In my own life, I have really felt like that helps the outcome. :-D

I'm no doctor, but I have to wonder if there could be some other explanation for 1 seizure. Maybe she had a fever or was dehydrated at the time? I had an epileptic dog, I have an epileptic daughter, neither have/ had a brain tumor. Cody does have a slow growing pituitary tumor that causes his acromegaly and diabetes, but he's never had a seizure (or a hypo).

I'm sure most vets, including mine has a BG target of 150-250 for their diabetic cats. This does not lead to remission, but it does keep most cats in a zone safe from hypo emergencies and late night calls.(MOST owners don't test) Per my vets explanation, cats are tolerant of high bg, and if they stay in the lower half of that (under 200), they probably aren't hurting their other organs like kidneys too much, especially based on their relatively short life spans. I'm not saying this is what I believe, just what vets deal with/think.

Since Cody will never go OTJ, and acros can be hard to bring up from hypo, most of us "acro moms" target 250 -150. He's been cruising along diabetic for 3 1/2 yrs... ;-)

But again, 250-150 won't get you remission if you think that is a reasonable goal.

IMO you are fine either way- you have to be comfortable with what you are doing- and what your goal is- remission, or decent control; and how much testing your lifestyle allows.
I think you are doing fine! and must love Squamee SOOO much to overcome your fear of needles etc :YMHUG:

also, Looks like maybe a micro dose possibly is worth a try. maybe .8?
 
maybe below 150 you could offer low carb...or even medium carb, 12 or 13 carb cans.
 
The vet's idea of a brain tumor is not just based on the seizure. The symptom we have been struggling with for more than a year is a jaw/mouth/throat (?) eating problem. She tries to eat and then moves her jaw around like someone trying to get peanut better off the roof of her mouth, while rubbing the sides of her face with her paws. It comes and goes and as it gets more frequent she really eats very little. A year ago a vet in NYC did all kinds of test, found nothing and gave her a long lasting steroid injection. She became diabetic for several months, and then went OTJ in August. THe mouth symptom did not return till this August. She had dental x-rays and a rotten tooth was extracted, and that did nothing. Buprenex did not seem to make a difference. She had skull x-rays and an ultra-sound of her stomach which showed nothing.Vet put her back on steroids and she became diabetic again. Then she had the seizure and the vet decided this meant a brain tumor---which would explain both symptoms.

I have no goals relative to the diabetes. My interest is in helping her be as comfortable as possible. I am puzzled by her reaction to the insulin, as it seems to make her feel worse. I have no diabetic friends, or I would ask them what it feels like. Both last year and today she seems unhappy when the insulin is working, and gets to be more herself as it wears off (she sleeps a lot but with the insulin she goes under tables, beds, etc---and when it wears off she sleeps on top of things or is more around us.)

Once again, I appreciate all your responses and your concern.
 
I'm sorry to hear she is not feeling good. I have noticed that a lot of kitties who become used to higher numbers feel uncomfortable/anxious with a change to lower numbers, until they get used to them again. Maybe it would help if you went a little slower and dropped her initial dose so that the BG drop is slower /smaller. You can always work back up if needed. OOPs just saw you did drop to .4u. Hope it helps. ;-)

Wow, that's an interesting history... you have really tried to figure it out, and have some bizarre symptoms. Don't you just wish they could talk...

If the bupe didn't help, maybe she is not in pain. But if you think she might be in pain, another thing your vet could consider/research is a pain drug Cody recently started called Gabapentin. It is actually a human antiseizure drug, that is also used for chronic pain, especially neurological pain , I believe. It is fairly cutting edge for felines, and has no obvious side effects like bupe. Cody has seemed brighter and more active, and affectionate since he started it. ( Later stages of acro seem to involve headaches, bone pain, enlarged organs.) My vet recently came back from a conference where the presenter said she loves it. I agree.
 
Wow Nancy, that drug was just mentioned as a possibility for H's brother F who is not doing so hot right now. Thank you for mentioning it, I will make sure that is addressed with F. Did buprinorphine help Cody at all?
 
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