Help! PMPS 5.2?!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Hercule's mum, Aug 20, 2020.

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  1. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Hercs seem to be having high numbers today so I relaxed, and didn't measure after +4. Just checked his PMPS and is 5.2. Double checked with a second meter and it is green.

    I know I am supposed to stall and test again, but he is very hungry.... and I don't want o have him go any lower...

    What should I do?

    I am so confused, @jt and trouble (GA), you promissed chocolate helped!
     
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  2. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Let's give him 20 minutes without food and see what he does, okay? I know he's hungry but it's useful to find out if he's rising/dropping.
     
  3. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I gave him a small feed, am tempted to skip tonight's dose....
     
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  4. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Whenever you get what seems to be an "off" number you should always retest to make SURE before you change anything.
    IF you've already done that then I would tag a dosing helper. I cannot give dosing advice. Now the chocolate is another thing. One item in your hypo kit should contain chocolate. You have my permission to raid it. :p I would send you some but for two things England has superior chocolate and mine wouldnt make it through customs :eek:
    ;)
    I hope this helps. :smuggrin:
     
  5. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Sorry @Panic , I panicked! :oops: Is it still useful to read in 20 minutes? I am really sorry, I know that is what I should have done... I should be happy when I see green, but I usually just panic!:banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
  6. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jeanne! I should have eaten the chocolate instead of giving him food!
     
  7. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    You can skip or given a token dose (10-25% of dose now, which is 0.10 - 0.15 u). Next time try to make Herc wait it out, 20 minutes won't hurt him. ;)

    A retest now is just going to show an elevated number from the food - not really helpful at this point.

    On the 2nd and 4th he got green pre-shots too - did you stall and retest? It's very beneficial to record what you did in the remarks, so that way when you're faced with something like today you can look back and say "okay well, on this date he also had a green pre-shot, and this is what happened" so you can make educated judgments :)
     
  8. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    - which means that in today's remarks you want to put that you fed and didn't stall.
     
  9. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Not to worry you havent done anything one or another of us hasnt done. It will all sort out . Have that chocolate anyway. ;)
     
  10. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Yes. when he got green at AmPS before I did stall and retest. But I haven't seen at PM and just din't make any sense given the early numbers... so I panicked.
    Ok, I'll try and see if I can just get 0.1U measured in my U40 syringes.... I can't wait for my U100 order to arrive!
     
  11. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    VERY wise words!
     
  12. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Weird stuff happens sometimes! I once got a 42 (2.3) at AMPS which really threw me for a loop. :p

    Like Jeanne said, you haven't done anything we have't done ourselves! Better safe than sorry!
    Just make sure you keep everything in your remarks so you can go back and reference it for later use.

    Make sure you check him tonight at +2. I wouldn't be surprised if he heads up though.
     
  13. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @Panic ! So, that I understand a bit better.... I know that I should shoot below 11 (and Hercs is still to unpredictable to be adventurous at lower numbers..). So in an evening like today, is I had done the right thing and stalled without feeding him. Let's say I do see BG is increasing 20 minutes later, does still have to touch 11 for me to shoot? or is the pure evidence of increasing enough?

    Also, could I get your opinion on feeding schedule? I wonder if the lack of pattern is because I keep changing his feeding around... He is always hungry and beggimg for food, so when we started doing lots of testing he was getting some food after every test (so about every 2 hours). to compensate for the constant feeding I was giiving him about a tablespoon or 2 each time. We had a few crashes, and I read soemwhere about feeding more in the start of the cycle to reduce the crashing after the shot. So I started giving him a quite large portion before shooting (~80 grams), then another 50g at +2, 30g +4 and just tiny bits after tests. I'm wondering if all the food is what is masking the usual descent and whether I need to watch for a later nadir, or go back to a more equal division of food?

    Thanks for the help!
     
  14. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Hi, to be clear... Do you mean an increase after feeding or an increase without feeding...?
    When 'stalling' we're not feeding but waiting to see if the blood glucose rises on its own to a shootable level.
    If we've already fed then any number we get is probably going to be food-influenced and so may not be reliable...
     
  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Strewth! I'd have been reaching for the brown trousers... :nailbiting:


    Mogs
    .
     
  16. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I meant, if it does increase without feeding. I understand that means the insulin if wearing out if BG increases without insulin, but it would be unusual to jump from 5.3 to 11 in 20 minutes without food, no? So, my question is, does an increase without feeding is enough to go ahead and shoot, or do i need to see getting higher than 11 before shooting? I hope I am making sense....:oops:
     
  17. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    The advice to 'not give insulin below 11' is a general guideline for those new to feline diabetes, and for those who don't have much blood test data. Once people are used to testing and have a fair amount of data under their belt then they may well start to give shots below 11, and most will actually do just that. It all depends on the individual cat, their response to insulin, and on the caregiver's ability to deal with any low number situations that arise from shooting at lower numbers.
     
  18. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Just had a mini heart-attack - can you do me a huge favor and edit your spreadsheet at the top so it says Gluco Navii meter instead of Alphatrak? That's a big difference in advice when Alphatrak numbers are involved.

    With time, data, and experience you can start lowering that 11 no-shoot number. Part of that is asking yourself: can I stall? Am I going to be home to monitor? Do I have experience shooting a lower number? You wouldn't want to shoot a say, 7, without first having experience shooting anything below 11. You'd want experience shooting say 9-10 first. Heading out the door/going to sleep isn't the time to shoot a lower-than-average number.

    Are you using SLGS or MPM dosing protocol? SLGS has reductions being earned below 90 (5 mmol/L) and MPM has reductions below 50 (2.8 mmol/L). Either way, you have a bit of experience already shooting numbers lower than 11. I'd say you're beyond using 11 as your no-shoot number. See below where it talks about 8.3 being the no-shoot number.

    How to handle a lower than normal preshot number when following SLGS:

    How to handle a low pre-shot number with MPM:
    As for your question on feeding - if treats after testing makes Herc happy, keep it up! My girl was very indifferent to testing so I never felt like I needed to "reward" her every time, but many cats expect it. One thing you can do instead of giving FOOD food at treat time is to give little treats - freeze-dried chicken treats or my personal favorite, treat-sized pieces of baked chicken. I kept a small tupperware cup with her treats in them, and we would go to the fridge and I would hold the container out and let her "pick out" a piece after a test. Just a little treat, not a mini-meal.

    A mini-meal at +2 is a good idea for most cats on Prozinc, and then a couple more before nadir. I'm not GREAT at reading spreadsheets, it kind of looks like Herc nadirs somewhere between +5 and +7, so you might consider another snack at +4 and +6, unless someone has a better recommendation (perhaps +5 instead of +6). Maybe @Elizabeth and Bertie , @Critter Mom or @Deb & Wink can offer more precise advise on the feeding schedule?

    And then after nadir, just stick with the chicken treats (or whatever).
     
  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Welled up reading this. Beautiful...

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


    Mogs
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  20. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, Elizabeth! I wasn't sure how to deal with the fact that old numbers were in the alphat trak.... I changed, and made a note on top that those number were alphatrak 2. Hope that clarifies.

    That is alo my reading, which is why I was dumbfounded with his PMPS being so low...

    So, I do give him freeze dried treats after testing....:oops: and then he runs straight to his plate..... Have I mentioned he is a really big eater :rolleyes: ?? Usually I am not home, so I managed to feed him 2 or 3 times, But currently working from home (which is a blessing, with his dx), but I am weak... and he asks for food all the time!

    Err... when I am stalling, should I also withdraw the freeze dried treats?
     
  21. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    She was an absolute delight to have and care for...sniff.

    The edit is perfect, thank you! :)

    Sounds like he's trained you! :woot:
    My girl was like that too at first - that's why I kept giving her chicken treats instead to hold her over! Sometimes I would give in though and give her just a little. :oops:

    Yes, no food at all when stalling. Poor Herc!
     
  22. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes, stalling means not food and that includes treats :p
     
  23. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! He is really too smart for his own good!
     
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  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Soul cat. My heart goes out to you, Elizabeth. :bighug:


    .
     
  25. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I was just about to say the same thing. (Awwwwwwwwwwwwww?)
     
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  26. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    By the way... is the 5.2 low enough to merit a decrease in dosage? I believe not, but am doubting my abilities to make good decisions today....
     
  27. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    That depends - are you doing reductions at 5 or 2.8? If doing SLGS I would say possibly, but not 100% sure. That'd be a @Deb & Wink question :p
     
  28. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    @Panic - I am so sorry you have lost your companion.:bighug: It is always horrible, but sometimes more so. I have had a few beloved cats, but since I adopted Hercs, I cannot imagine not having him.... Hence, my constant panic on how to best treat him.... I would say he is like one of my children, but since mine own are teenagers at the moment, he is actually better than them. o_O
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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  29. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to follow SLGS until I feel more confident. I increase a tad bit his dose recently (to 0.6U since 17/08) and he had a couple of green points, but I tought only bellow 2.8 was the trigger with a human meter?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  30. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Bythe way, he has come up to 16.8 I was hoping to actually get some sleep this evening, but I'll make sure to stay up a bit more to get another reading and make sure he will be ok.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Love is ...

    :)


    Mogs
    .
     
  32. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Love is ... staying up for another hour for an extra chance to squeeze blood of you poor cat! :smuggrin:
     
  33. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing is..they seems to know it. :bighug:;):cool:
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    5.2 mmol/L times 18 = 93.6 mg/dL

    Not quite low enough to lower the dose, per the SLGS protocol.
    But you could chalk up the 3.6 mg/dL difference to meter variance, and go ahead and reduce the dose.
    I'm not quite the "stickler" for following the Prozinc dosing protocol to the letter.
    That is because, ECID. Every Cat is Different.

    Hercules actually earned a dose reduction back on 8/17/20 (17/8/20 in your date format). And you did not take it.

    So I do think you should do a dose reduction. Down by 0.25U please would be my recommendation.
     
  35. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. :bighug: Have yet to go a day without tearing up but I truly believe everyone here cared for and miss her too. We all get attached to the sugar cats here, just like Herc! :) Love is ...

    Okay, so just remember then - hold the dose 7 days unless he earns a reduction by dropping under 90 (5 mmol/L). That's at any time in the cycle.
    Congrats on the Deb-approved dose reduction! (and thanks Deb!)
     
  36. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Deb & Wink ! I will reduce his dose. I thought I should have reduced, and I wrote a message on the prozinc board that day, but I guess everyone was busy.

    The reason I was unsure is that overall his numbers has been mostly on the high side, and that day I double checked the 3.5 with a second meter, which gave 5.2. So, I worry I am overeacting to perfectly fine numbers and hence making him run high most of the time? I had just increased to 0.6 after spending 7 days @ 0.5U with values mostly above 14.
     
  37. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Doses can change pretty frequently, especially in the first few months.
    It's tough to roll with those dose changes, but you need to do them.

    I'm rarely on until after 8 pm east coast time, and only have about 1 hour on the message board before I need to do other things.
     
  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to say, Hercules is likely bouncing today and will have high numbers for several cycles. Hold the reduced dose steady, until the bounce clears or he drops below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L).
     
  39. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I really do appreciate your help @Deb & Wink , and I completely understand you are not always available. I am just still not quite confident to drive on my own, specially since every time I try I seem to dink the car.... :blackeye:

    He is up today, but not ridiculously high, which I take as a good sign! I'll hang in here for a while. :)
     
  40. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    OK, Hercules is likely to stay high for several cycles. Let's wait and see how long it takes him to clear this bounce and give you better BG numbers. His body is not used to those blue BG ranges, so it overreacts and causes him to go much higher. At least he isn't wearing black today!

    Remember that dose changes can be needed fairly frequently. You test plenty in the AM cycle to catch any low numbers. Doing ok in the PM cycle too. Just remember to get that "before bed test" in every PM cycle and you should be good.
     
  41. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    @Deb & Wink , thanks again.

    I am still having trouble recognizing bounces... his number while not going very low, are not really very high either....He seems to be staying on pink range. Do you think he is having a bounce?
     
  42. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I dont know but this post will BOUNCE your thread to the top of the list!
     
  43. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    The BG level does not HAVE to go really low, for a cat's body to overreact and think it needs to bring that BG number back up to what it's used to.
    So for some cats, even numbers down in the yellow colored ranges on the SS can be lower than the cat has been getting for some time, and cause a bounce.

    Black color coded numbers on the SS almost always means bouncing.
    Red color coded numbers on the SS usually means bouncing too.

    It's the relationship between the pre-shot and the lows (aka nadirs) during the cycle that lead to the bounce.
    If there is only a 10-20% drop, there may not be a bounce.
    If there is a 20% drop in the first hour or 2 of the cycle, that may lead to lows in the middle of the cycle and then the subsequent bounce.
    How hard and fast the drop happens determines how low a cat's BG levels will go and then rise up at the end of the cycle.

    Your cat drops from those pink colored coded ranges on the SS, down to the blues? Expect a bounce.
    Your cat drops from those yellow color coded ranges (or the pinks or reds) on the SS, down to the greens? Expect a bounce.

    Duration of the insulin also comes into play.
    Not all cats get the same duration from the different insulins.
    Duration can vary a bit from cycle to cycle also, as a cat eats or sleeps or plays more.
     
  44. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Wow Deb this should be a sticky somewhere . Too much for me to memorize. :bookworm:
    Actually more than 2 sentences are too much for my brain :rolleyes::p
     
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  45. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Deb & Wink -

    First-class tutorial, Deb. Extremely helpful.


    Mogs
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  46. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    thank for the tag I shoulda done that. ;)
     
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  47. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  48. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    hahahaaa Absolutely!
     
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  49. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Cut and paste it to a word document or something. I'll never be able to recreate what I said. :eek:

    I may not have everything right, but at least it's a start to help someone identify bounces.
     
  50. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    @Deb & Wink That is super helpful to know, thank you!

    I am afraid he seems to be unwell since his dose reduction :( I guess it can just be a coincidence.
    He is not eating with much gusto, his behaviour seems sedated. He peed a lake this morning, and i check for ketos with a stick. Doesn't seem to be any.
    I'm at bit of a loss :arghh: Anyone has any suggestions? @Critter Mom? @Elizabeth and Bertie?
     
  51. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Hercule's mum -

    Morning, Karen.

    I'm sorry to hear Hercules is somewhat out of sorts. I've never used Prozinc so I can't even an give an interpretation on his dose but hopefully Eliz and @Deb & Wink will be able to offer some good advice when next they're online.

    I'm glad you're checking ketones daily.

    WRT the apparent waning of appetite and difficulty eating his treat this morning, that's very much something to keep a close eye on. Is he pooping with normal frequency and do his stools have normal colour, odour and form? I'd also suggest monitoring Hercules for signs of nausea and/or discomfort after eating (e.g. hunched up into a tense 'meatloaf', seeking out a cooler floor surface to lie on). Here's a helpful resource:

    Nausea Symptom Checklist

    If nausea is an issue it needs to be tackled head-on and a cause identified.


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  52. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your message, Mogs. Needing a handheld....

    I am not checking ketones daily, but when I manage.... I recently lost Hercules daughter (I adopted both together), and adopted a new buddy for him a couple of months ago. So is hard to know whose bathroom's remains are whose.... I have been wondering whether he might be a tad constipated, but not sure how to tell :oops:

    I considered nausea, because he seem interested in food, but not quite willing to eat. I di just changed flavour of treat and food, and he ate, albeit without his usual gusto. So perhaps not nausea?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Glad Hercules has eaten a bit for you, Karen. As the advert says, every little helps.

    Are the food and treats part of his regular food choices, Karen?
     
  54. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm very sorry to hear about Hercules' daughter. :(

    :bighug:

    .
     
  55. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    I suspect this is part of why I am so anxious with Hercs. I just don't feel like I can go through this again so soon.


    None of the foods he is eating at the moment is part of his long food eating habits.... since he had to change to wet food and low carb. I bought the feringa cans in two flavours, and he wasn't eating one of them (aftyer wolfing down days before), so I tried anew can with a different flavour and that seems to be a bit more acceptable....

    The threats are all freeze dried stuff, but the difference is that the one he didn't eat is bigger chunks than the one that he did eat. Made me think about teeth issues, but when he was at the vet 2 months ago he had his teeth checked out, and there was no issues.
     
  56. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    If you keep a daily note of the quantity of poop deposited in the litter box every 24 hours then, regardless of which furchild contributed to the haul, it'll help you to spot quickly if there is a smaller amount than usual. Also, if some of the stools are narrower in diameter than normal, are very firm to hard in consistency - maybe more separate 'marbles' instead of long and segmented - that may be a possible indicator of mild constipation and underhydration.

    If you suspect constipation, then it's down to identifying which of your two might not be as regular as they should be. The best I can suggest is to move the litter box somewhere that you spend a lot of time so that you can catch each kitty in the act. If they're constipated they may spend a longer time than usual in the box, possibly digging around and 'pirouetting' more than usual, and you might see them straining. Here's a very helpful resource:

    felineconstipation.org

    Any time Saoirse or Lúnasa had constipation, the longer the time elapsed since the last poop, the more inactive and lethargic they became, and they looked progressively more 'unhappy' in themselves. They'd brighten considerably once they passed something.


    Mogs
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  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is, Karen... :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    .
     
  58. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Mogs! Ahhhh, what does the world comes to, when we discuss furbabies poo! :rolleyes::D

    But seriously, very helpful, I have seen a certain change in shape, but put down to the higher meat content of new diet.... I will plan a day of cat litter watch duty....
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  59. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    We're not afraid to discuss much here on the message board.
    There used to be a member years ago that would have "Poo Watch Parties", to let folks know the status of her kitty and the poo situation.

    Sometimes, adding a bit of fiber to the wet food helps.
    Do you have psyllium husk fiber where you live? Try 1/8 teaspoon added to the wet food.
    Or a generic form of Miralax may be a better idea. It's tasteless and odorless so your cat may not notice it in the food as much.
    The generic name is polyethylene glycol 3350. It is used as a laxative to treat occasional constipation or irregular bowel movements.

    I use both for my civie (non-diabetic) cat, since she is very prone to constipation. She gets some of these laxatives every day.
     
  60. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    hi @Critter Mom , @Elizabeth and Bertie and other Uk forum members....

    Does anyone know where I can find the psyllium husk fiber that Deb suggested above?

    I found miralax but in lemon flavour? not sure how that will go.... Any pointers very much appreciated, I think he definetely need some help on the stool department...
     
  61. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Af'noon Karen!

    I got mine on eBay. If it's urgent, Holland and Barrett do it (capsules) or other health food shops or chemists might carry it. eBay's way cheaper than the H&B.

    A little psyllium goes a very, very long way in a cat. I suggest starting conservatively.


    Mogs
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  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    You can get the unflavoured Miralax on eBay. Again, a little goes a long way.


    Mogs
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  63. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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  64. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both! your link is a good compromise between price and volume, Elizabeth!
     
  65. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    My cat gets 1/8 teaspoon, twice a day. But she has megacolon issues, so she needs more.
    My vet had us start at 1/8 teaspoon once a day, but that was not enough.
    The psyllium husk gets mixed into her wet food, with some added water.
    Your cat needs to eat the mixture pretty quickly, since it turns gummy and unpalatable pretty quickly.
     
  66. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    I ried putting on my coffee this morning to see what it tastes like before giving to the kitty. Had drank must of the cup thinking to myself, it doesn't change taste or texture, great! and then I reached the bottom of the cup and saw a coloidal puddle....:rolleyes::D

    A sprinkle a tiny bit over his food without added water.... does it need the water?
     
  67. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, the psyllium husk fiber gets mixed with water usually, to keep it from turning to a thick throat clogging gel. You have to drink the liquid pretty quickly.
    Another option, is to mix the psyllium husk fiber with a tiny bit of canned food, and let your cat eat that, before you give them the main meal.

    The other option is to use the Miralax which is tasteless and odorless. Again, only 1/8 teaspoon to start, and adjust as needed.

    I've always added water to my cats wet food. She is almost toothless, since she had stomatitis and had most of her teeth pulled before I got her. Basically, she laps up the food with her tongue.

    The added water helps to keep the food moister too.

    You could skip the extra water, but if your diabetic cat is peeing a lot, the extra water in the food can help to keep them hydrated.
     
  68. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks, i'll try adding some water. His food is not a pate but a mixture of chopped bits that I am a bit squirmish about it... so i confess I am a bit nervous about what happen if i add water :eek:, but I'll try.

    Would the effect of psylum be very obvious?

    Also, @Deb & Wink , if you don't mind could you give me some dosing advice, we seem to be in a bit of a rut.....I've increased his dose recently, but ot doesn't seem like is doing anything?
     
  69. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    You need to keep an eye on the size of the stools. If Hercules poops once every 24 hours or so, it may take a couple of days for you to see the effects of psyllium. It softens the stools but because they're more moist they may also start getting bigger (larger diameter). Add too much psyllium and you start getting jumbo poops (don't ask how I know this). If they do get larger, shave a little off the dose until both size and consistency of the stool are in the right ballpark. Bit of a sprag having to wait at least 24-36 hours or to discover whether you've got the dose right.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  70. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    @Critter Mom - I am really grateful for your answer, but......Argh! So just like figuring out the $£%&£@@ dose of insulin?

    Sorry, feeling down on the dumps. I think the insulin might have gone off? Isn't doing anything..... How does one know whether the insin has gone off (or the dose is wrong) without cracking a new vial of insulin (which could be a £60 mistake)?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
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  71. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    OMG Mods you are a poop expert !

    LOL I KNOW how you know this...I just could not resist. :p
     
  72. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I'm sorry Mum... I didnt mean to make light when you are feeling low. Please accept my apology. :(
     
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  73. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    No apologies needed, Jeanne! We must laugh, always! makes the hard going easier to mange :)
     
  74. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Pretty much, but it isn't quite so heavily nuanced and the results are more obvious. ;)

    On the insulin side of things I can't help because I've not used Prozinc. I'm tagging @Deb & Wink to ask her to have a look at Hercules' spreadsheet for you. If you've not already checked it out, there's a Prozinc insulin support group here. It might help you learn more about Prozinc and how to use it if you started following the progress of some of the kitties there.

    Goddess willing, tomorrow will be a better day.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  75. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks Mogs. Yes, I do keep an eye on some kitties, but I can't say it hashelped me much. It seems clear to me that I need to try to up the dose, but the fact that there wasn't a clear effect is what is making me unsure if it just mean I have to raise more, or there is something wrong with the insulin. He doesn't seem 100%, so I am not sure how long I should wait before I crack the new vial.... There has been a shortage of prozinc recently, so I fell worried about using it....
     
  76. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    On the psyllium husk fiber added to the food, if there is too much, it can give your cat runny diarrhea. Think of poops the consistency of pudding, and you get the idea that the amount of the fiber needs to be reduced. Easily passed, without the cat straining to poop is where you want to be with the amount of fiber.

    On the current Prozinc insulin dose, I think that the dose should be increased to 0.75U.
    Let's see how Hercules does on that dose increase for a few cycles. 6 or more 12 hour cycles, and then we'll take another look. But if Hercules drops below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L), then you need to decrease the dose by 0.25U, for safety.

    We want to get him out of those pinks and yellows, and back to the blues, or even better yet, down into the green BG ranges. The tree green BG ranges, not the neon green BG ranges. Take a look at the very top of the SS, to see what I'm saying about the colors.
     
  77. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks for the feedback, @Deb & Wink . I increased to 0.7 because I am using U100 syringes now. I'll keep a close eye today.
     
  78. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  79. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    Yay! We hit blue! Just touched, and bounce!!! Hopefully it will be short.... Better than flat line...
     
  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    That's not a bounce! That's a moon shot!! :woot:

    Try another test just in case it was a duff strip.


    Mogs
    .
     
  81. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Sorry, Mogs, Just saw your message. I just did a +2 and is 22.3, so I am guessing the PMPS was not too far off?

    @Critter Mom - Do you think I need a PJ party?
     
  82. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Looks like it wasn't, Karen.

    Can you get a +3 test in?


    Mogs
    .
     
  83. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Could you please start a new thread please, and link this old one in at the top of the new thread?

    This one is getting really, really long and when that happens, it makes the database behind the message board run more slowly.

    Not right this minute. After this cycle is done would be a good time.

    Thanks
     
  84. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Well-Known Member

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