Help Please!*** UPDATE ***

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chatran (GA)

Member Since 2014
Chatran

PMPS 151
+1 142

I skip the dose and an hour later the number goes down. My question is does this means a possible hypo? He refuses to eat and really have bad diarrhea. Needing advise what to do.

Thank you!

Rosie
 
Re: Help Please!

Rosie, those are safe numbers at the moment. It's evening in your part of the world, isn't it? I just had a look at your spreadsheet, but you haven't got today's values in yet. Did you give Chatran any insulin in the morning?
 
Re: Help Please!

Hi Ainie. Yes it's night time and yes I did give insulin in the morning but I skip tonight's because he is not eating as well.
 
Re: Help Please!

I saw the notes on your spreadsheet, Rosie. Poor Chatran. cat_pet_icon. He's having such a hard time of it. :sad:

Has the vet given you any other meds for Chatran besides the flagyl? Also, what are you feeding him at the moment?
 
Re: Help Please!

Yes the vet gave all the anti biotic there is. He's been quite good yesterday but today back to being sick. He also been diagnose with FIV - my poor bubba. My heart is really broken
 
Re: Help Please!

When his glucose is high, he isn't eating, and he is sick, he is at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and/or hepatic lipidosis which can be fatal.

A token dose of insulin may be needed to bring the glucose down somewhat - perhaps a half dose. I base this on when I took a cat in for a dental and he was fasting, my vet had me give just half a dose and that was safe. Each cat is different, so you have to figure out what works for yours. If you give some insulin, it may get the glucose to come down some, plus prompt some appetite and reduce the risks a bit.
 
Re: Help Please!

Oh, Rosie! I am awfully sorry to hear about the FIV diagnosis. I know how deeply you love Chatran, and my heart goes out to you. :sad:

Has your vet given you any medical reason why Chatran should not be prescribed something to help him eat? In general, I am very confused about why your vet hasn't prescribed an appetite stimulant like cyproheptadine to help Chatran's eating, plus an anti-nausea med such as ondansetron if he is showing symptoms of nausea (scroll down the page for list), and I'm doubly confused given the increased importance of providing good nutrition for FIV cats. :YMSIGH: Perhaps you might ask your vet again for something to help Chatran to eat comfortably and reliably. It would make his insulin treatment more straightforward as well. The ondansetron and cyproheptadine combination that Saoirse got has really helped her. Her insulin treatment would have been nigh on impossible without them for the last couple of months. Also, a product called Pro-Kolin helped Saoirse with her diarrhoea (kaolin paste with probiotic).

Also, I wonder if it would be worth your asking your vet about a drug called Acemannan for the FIV. I have no knowledge or experience of it myself, but I came across references to it when I was researching aloe vera for veterinary use. It has been studied for FIV treatment, and also for FeLV. I've included links for you to look at:

Pilot study of the effect of acemannan in cats infected with feline immunodeficiency virus

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=26+1303&aid=1366

http://www.aloevera.co.uk/felinelv.htm

I also found a few articles about FIV in cats for you:

http://angelwingsrescue.tripod.com/fiv.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/owning_an_fiv__cat.html


Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers ...

:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Help Please!

BJM said:
When his glucose is high, he isn't eating, and he is sick, he is at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and/or hepatic lipidosis which can be fatal.

A token dose of insulin may be needed to bring the glucose down somewhat - perhaps a half dose. I base this on when I took a cat in for a dental and he was fasting, my vet had me give just half a dose and that was safe. Each cat is different, so you have to figure out what works for yours. If you give some insulin, it may get the glucose to come down some, plus prompt some appetite and reduce the risks a bit.
Click to expand...

I opt for skip dose last night because he's bg was only 152 at pre shot and check again at one hour and still going down. I will remember next time the token dose.

Thank you BJ

Critter Mom said:
Oh, Rosie! I am awfully sorry to hear about the FIV diagnosis. I know how deeply you love Chatran, and my heart goes out to you. :sad:

Has your vet given you any medical reason why Chatran should not be prescribed something to help him eat? In general, I am very confused about why your vet hasn't prescribed an appetite stimulant like cyproheptadine to help Chatran's eating, plus an anti-nausea med such as ondansetron if he is showing symptoms of nausea (scroll down the page for list), and I'm doubly confused given the increased importance of providing good nutrition for FIV cats. :YMSIGH: Perhaps you might ask your vet again for something to help Chatran to eat comfortably and reliably. It would make his insulin treatment more straightforward as well. The ondansetron and cyproheptadine combination that Saoirse got has really helped her. Her insulin treatment would have been nigh on impossible without them for the last couple of months. Also, a product called Pro-Kolin helped Saoirse with her diarrhoea (kaolin paste with probiotic).

Also, I wonder if it would be worth your asking your vet about a drug called Acemannan for the FIV. I have no knowledge or experience of it myself, but I came across references to it when I was researching aloe vera for veterinary use. It has been studied for FIV treatment, and also for FeLV. I've included links for you to look at:

Pilot study of the effect of acemannan in cats infected with feline immunodeficiency virus

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=26+1303&aid=1366

http://www.aloevera.co.uk/felinelv.htm

I also found a few articles about FIV in cats for you:

http://angelwingsrescue.tripod.com/fiv.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/owning_an_fiv__cat.html


Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers ...

:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
Click to expand...

The vet said, he can't give home appy stimulant because he hasn't lose weight yet and also anti nausea because he doesn't know the cause of it. I will ring vet again about the stimulant and anti nausea med today.

He ate a little bit this morning and I gave home his dose of insulin.

Thanks for your help
 
Re: Help Please!

Hi Rosie,

When an appetite stimulant is in use it may mean that Chatran looks for more food, but it doesn't automatically follow that you will put out more food for him so weight gain should not be an issue at all.

Are there any other good vets in your area, Rosie? If your current vet doesn't know what to do maybe it might it be worth seeking a second opinion? Because of their metabolisms, cats need to eat regularly (even if they're not on insulin).

Will you drop us an update after the vet visit to let us know how you got on?

(((Rosie & Chatran)))
 
Re: Help Please!

I am still waiting for the vet to ring me. Thier is no good vet around. I have been to the other vet but told me to start him on traditional medicine - I don't really know what to do now :cry:
 
Re: Help Please!

Dr Janice Rand of the University of Queensland is down your way and is well acquainted with feline diabetes, given that she has published numerous articles on it and helped develop the basic tight regulation protocol for Lantus/Levemir. Perhaps you can get a phone consult between your vet and her department.

Maybe check the U of Q Centre for Companion Animals website and see what services they may offer to practicing vets.
 
Re: Help Please!

That's a great idea, BJM.

Rosie, I'm really sorry that you're not getting decent support from your local vets. :sad: Sometimes you need to get assertive. I'd recommend chasing your vet if necessary.

How is Chatran's appetite today?
 
Re: Help Please!

HI Rosie,

I've only just logged in. I see from your spreadsheet the following:

Lantus / Accu-Check Performa Meter

PMPS - 14.0
+2 - 9.0
+4 - 4.0
+5 - 5.3

I see that Chatran's numbers have risen since your first post. Did you feed Chatran after the +4 reading? What sort of food? Have you done any further tests since your last spreadsheet update?
 
Re: Help Please!

Hi aini,

Yes I'm still up 1.30am already. I gave him ff turkey gravy.
I check at +6 bg didn't go up a bit. What should I do? I'm really stressed out. I'm worried he could go lower.
 
Re: Help Please!

Hi Rosie,

Glad you're back online. Did you feed the FF gravy after the 4.0 reading? How long is it in actual hours and minutes since you fed him the gravy and how much did he eat?

Also, I just need you to confirm that the Accu-Check Performa is a human glucometer.
 
Re: Help Please!

Rosie, my internet connection just glitched and I'm worried it might drop on me (it's not the greatest).

If you post and I don't reply back fairly quickly it will be because I can't access the internet. If that happens, go to the Tight Regulation forum and post a request for help there with a link to this thread. I don't want you to be without support if my internet connection fails.
 
Re: Help Please!

hello.
Your numbers are safe numbers.... but I know greens are scary when you haven't had them ( much) .

It looks to me like Chatran is flirting with a dose reduction. To earn one, he will have to go below 50. ( so 49 is as low as he needs to go)

If you are really wanting to bump up his numbers you can add a drop of honey to his food or gravy.
We manipulate their bg with a higher carb gravy.... so they still want to eat if we need them too.


It does sound like you need to find a vet who will give you the ondansetron. It's hard to get a cat to eat with nausea.
 
Re: Help Please!

rhiannon and shadow said:
hello.


It looks to me like Chatran is flirting with a dose reduction. To earn one, he will have to go below 50. ( so 49 is as low as he needs to go)
Click to expand...

What you mean by this. I'm sorry my English is so poor.

I'm going to pick up some cerenia tomorrow from our vet and I hope it will help him

Thank you
 
Re: Help Please!

Still here, Rosie. Fingers crossed it will stay that way. :smile:

According to the link I posted in my previous post, on a human meter 2.8 mmol/L is the key number to watch for so Chatran's numbers are OK at the moment.

It's a good idea to bookmark that sticky for the future in case you're waiting a while for someone to come and help.

For future reference, if you want to post a link to a topic:

1. Open the topic you want to link to.

2. Highlight the URL for the topic in the address bar of your browser then copy it to the clipboard.

3. Go to the topic where you want to put the link and start a new post then paste the link address from the clipboard into the typing area.


Hope you can follow that. If push comes to shove, just post a new topic on the TR board and give the board (e.g. Feline Health) and the name of the thread you want people to look at (e.g. Help Please!).
 
Re: Help Please!

I mean we reduce the insulin dose when they earn a reduction.

It looks like on sept 24.... you got a 2.7 which as I recall, 2.7 x 18 = 48.6
I'm having to do the conversion for myself.
So his dose should have been lowered.... you did it once but then went right back up to 3.0.

The dose will change up and down as needed with insulin.
This is why you are monitoring..... to keep him safe.

I would also add that you will see a bounce later..... it seems when he gets a green..... he bounces. His body is not used to lower numbers so it dumps
counter-regulatory hormones in response to the lower numbers.
When that happens , you don't want to increase the dose. You have to wait it out .

We also increase lantus in smaller increments. We usually only go up by 1/4 of a unit ( 0.25 u)



I do recommend ondansetron ( Zofran) for nausea.
It doesn't have any negative effects that I'm aware of.... and I often give it and don't have to give an appetite stimulant too.
The ondansetron seems to be enough for mine.
 
Re: Help Please!

rhiannon and shadow said:
I mean we reduce the insulin dose when they earn a reduction.

It looks like on sept 24.... you got a 2.7 which as I recall, 2.7 x 18 = 48.6
I'm having to do the conversion for myself.
So his dose should have been lowered.... you did it once but then went right back up to 3.0.

The dose will change up and down as needed with insulin.
This is why you are monitoring..... to keep him safe.

I would also add that you will see a bounce later..... it seems when he gets a green..... he bounces. His body is not used to lower numbers so it dumps
counter-regulatory hormones in response to the lower numbers.
When that happens , you don't want to increase the dose. You have to wait it out .

We also increase lantus in smaller increments. We usually only go up by 1/4 of a unit ( 0.25 u)



I do recommend ondansetron ( Zofran) for nausea.
It doesn't have any negative effects that I'm aware of.... and I often give it and don't have to give an appetite stimulant too.
The ondansetron seems to be enough for mine.
Click to expand...

As per vet advise to put the dose up to 3 u after the 24 Sep episode.


What should I do on amps today? Should I reduce or stay the dose.
 
Re: Help Please!

That's great news about the Cerenia, Rosie! I hope it will help Chatran to eat better. If it doesn't do the trick on its own, go back to the vet and get an appy stimulant to go with it. Saoirse gets ondansetron for nausea and cyproheptadine for appetite. The cyproheptadine seems to help her with tummy discomfort as well as helping her to eat regularly.

If ever your vet needs to prescribe ondansetron in the future, the generic is WAY cheaper than the branded version (Zofran).
 
Re: Help Please!

I don't have enough experience to advise you on dosing, Rosie. Hopefully Rhiannon will be able to help you with that.
 
Re: Help Please!

I just check his bg

+7 (5.4) 97.2

Is it safe for me to go to sleep now?

What should I do with the dosage at amps. Should I reduce or stay as it is?
 
Re: Help Please!

I don't have enough experience to advise you about whether it's safe to sleep, Rosie.

It would help advice givers if you could add a little more information about how much Chatran has eaten and whether he is likely to eat on his own if you leave food out for him.
 
Re: Help Please!

Hi ainie.

I conked out last night, I end up just having an hour sleep. I got a cerenia from the vet today but still didn't give me appy stimulant. I will try this and hope it will help him eat by himself. I hope tonight will be as not as bad as last night.

Thank you for there for me last night and also Rhiannon and BJ.

:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
 
Re: Help Please!

Hi Rosie,

I know all about conking out. :oops: I hope your day has not been too hectic. Just had a look at Chatran's spreadsheet and he seems to be a bit higher this evening. Fingers and paws crossed that his numbers will be OK for the cycle and that you can catch up on some much needed rest. :YMHUG:

I'm glad I was able to help you a little bit yesterday, Rosie (and to pay forward for all the help that other members have given to Saoirse and myself!). It's really scary when our little one's numbers go low like that. Well done for catching Chatran's lower numbers. :smile:

More crossed fingers and paws that the Cerenia will help Chatran to eat more comfortably. cat_pet_icon Please let us know how he gets on with it. And don't be shy about going back to your vet for the appy stimulant should Chatran need one in addition to the Cerenia. ;-)
 
Chatran is very sick. Had an infection again. His FIV is getting out of control - it looks like he can't fight the infection anymore. I'm so heartbroken. I guess we are taking one day at a time.

Please say prayers for my fur boy :cry:

Rosie
 
((((Rosie & Chatran))))

Praying for you here. Did you ask the vet about the acemannan? And how is Chatran's appetite?

Also, do you have a photo of Chatran, Rosie? I'd love to see one. cat_pet_icon
 
Hi ainie. Vet and I spoke about the acemann but at the moment chatran is very ill. We just found out that it's not his appetite is bad but his throat is swollen and he can't swallow.

It's really killing me right now. I have been crying since last night.

I was trying to upload photo but it's says pixel too high, I'm on my iPad and I don't know how to do it.
 
This is my boy chatran. I love him so so much
 

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Chatran said:
This is my boy chatran. I love him so so much
Click to expand...
I know how very much you love him, Rosie. It's lovely to see his photo: he's beautiful.

Praying very hard for you both.

((((((Rosie & Chatran))))))

:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
 
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