? help on stomatitis, gingivitis, calicivirus. IM VERY MUCH CONCERNED.

[Silvina]

Hello all!!!


I was advised to tagg @Vyktors Mum

Some of you followed my posting on the FDMD Facebook Group.

I discovered about 5 days ago that Markies gingivitis was bleeding and looked very bad. At that time I run out of stripes and couldn't get till later on (4 days after).

Markies had a dental work last January. He had teeth resorption, placa and he had some teeth extracted.

But after that I saw that gingivitis was still there, no change at all. But now it was not only there, but it was bleeding!

I finally took him to a vet close to my house. She is not a vet specialist in cats nor dentist but she is pretty good. We opened Markies mouth and took some pictures since I usually use the phone camera to watch my cats ears, and other issues. It has a pretty good camera and good zoom. She saw some sores and she said that this gingivitis is a stomatitis and that he has also calicivirus.

She also said that a dental work will not help at all right now and that for example Markies has also gingivitis in the spost were he has the tooth extracted so, she said is not a teeth issue now.

Some days ago I contacted by email the dentist that did the dental and told me to give Markies a wide spectrum antibiotic, so as I had doxiciclina he told me to give 1 pill every 24hs. (50 mg).

THis vet that saw Markies, told me to continue with the antibiotic at least 7 days and told me to try rubbing his gums with clorexidine (but she said that it has sugar, since its made of or has sugar on it). She then said that I could use sodium bicarbonate (to wet a piece of cotton with this) and rub on his gums. Plus the abs.

Today, following my instinct I decided to use a cotton wet on clorexidine. Knowing it may impact on Markies BG, but actually didn't. It was a battle trying to rub this product in his gums.

Im still kind of doubting if this vet was right in her diagnosis. I need to trust someone. SHe also said to continue using an antiviral (she knew that Im usint with my three cats L Lysine which works really well with herpes virus). This herpes virus is at home, bothering my non diabetic cats. So she told me to use it, together with the Abs and the sodium bicarbonate.

Im hopefully receiving Jennifer Felis Alvarez donation of some product for Markies gums, so until then Im not sure if I should continue with the cloreixdine or the sodium bicarbonate.

And I still need to read about stomatitis. So far, what I read is that gingivitis and stomatitis are very much related, and that herpes virus and calicivirus are also very much related.

And my other doubt is if I should extract all Markies teeth and if this will kill for ever this fxxxx gingivitis and stomatitis.

Or are this all related? Stomatitis, gingivitis, herpes virus and calicivirus? Am I ever going to destroy this 4??? and may be have Markies into remission?

Im not concerned muy about remission, I started to flow with this. Im not so neat as I should be (or as I was) but Im doing what I can (my father health is very bad so Im not with much focuss on doing all perfectly correct).

Wish I can get some help from you guys.

Thank you.

Silvi

 

[Silvina]

 

[Silvina]

Look at the third picture, he has a white under the skin stuff. The vet said this is a tendon. Is it normal o have it uncovered? On the other hand, look at the top, on the palate, don't you see bit white sores? Or Im seing wrong things and this is normal part of the mouth roof skin?

 

[Spunky's Mama]

I just want to say - those are some awesome mouth pictures! I am not an expert in this area so am not going to comment too much and certainly not make recommendations on what you should do. I will tell you what has worked for me though. 3 of 4 of my guys have struggled with teeth issues. Spunky's I had extracted as hers were in bad shape. Vet had informed me that infection of any kind can make it more challenging to get sugar levels under control which is why I chose to have the dental done. She's much happier with only 3 teeth left! 2 little ones so really I consider her to have 1 tooth My other guy Fat Tony who is not diabetic has severe tooth decay. What is left of his teeth are black. With him I have opted not to do the dental because he has a Grade 3 heart murmur which means his survival rate with surgery is only 50/50 and he's a senior. I love him so want to keep him so long as he isn't suffering. He's awesome and even shakes paw and other paw on command! His vet gave him a round of antibiotics and an antibacterial mouth rinse that I would squirt into his mouth 2x/daily and massage. He's been doing fine over the last month, mouth looks better and he doesn't appear to be in pain anymore.

In terms of calcivirus - super common! Most cats have this I believe so I wouldn't worry too much about it in my opinion. Not much that can be done unfortunately except treat for symptoms during flare ups (assuming I'm thinking of the correct virus). One of my guys has this which I think makes my other guys carriers but asymptomatic. She gets a serious flare up every few months which sometimes turns into a bacterial infection which means another vet trip and a round of antibiotics.

What I usually use to minimize her flare ups is L-Lysine. It is an amino acid that you can find in any drug store. It's meant for cold sores in humans. It will help boost metabolism. I give her 2 capsules a day. I open the capsule and mix the contents into a very small amount of wet food for her to ensure she eats all of it.

Christine

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Unfortunately, the only treatment I've ever heard that works for stomatitis is full mouth extraction, but generally, it can really improve the quality of life for the cat

 

[Silvina]

I just want to say - those are some awesome mouth pictures! I am not an expert in this area so am not going to comment too much and certainly not make recommendations on what you should do. I will tell you what has worked for me though. 3 of 4 of my guys have struggled with teeth issues. Spunky's I had extracted as hers were in bad shape. Vet had informed me that infection of any kind can make it more challenging to get sugar levels under control which is why I chose to have the dental done. She's much happier with only 3 teeth left! 2 little ones so really I consider her to have 1 tooth My other guy Fat Tony who is not diabetic has severe tooth decay. What is left of his teeth are black. With him I have opted not to do the dental because he has a Grade 3 heart murmur which means his survival rate with surgery is only 50/50 and he's a senior. I love him so want to keep him so long as he isn't suffering. He's awesome and even shakes paw and other paw on command! His vet gave him a round of antibiotics and an antibacterial mouth rinse that I would squirt into his mouth 2x/daily and massage. He's been doing fine over the last month, mouth looks better and he doesn't appear to be in pain anymore.

In terms of calcivirus - super common! Most cats have this I believe so I wouldn't worry too much about it in my opinion. Not much that can be done unfortunately except treat for symptoms during flare ups (assuming I'm thinking of the correct virus). One of my guys has this which I think makes my other guys carriers but asymptomatic. She gets a serious flare up every few months which sometimes turns into a bacterial infection which means another vet trip and a round of antibiotics.

What I usually use to minimize her flare ups is L-Lysine. It is an amino acid that you can find in any drug store. It's meant for cold sores in humans. It will help boost metabolism. I give her 2 capsules a day. I open the capsule and mix the contents into a very small amount of wet food for her to ensure she eats all of it.

Christine

You are so kind and also funny!
Question, the one that only has three teeth left, he had previously gingivitis with those horrible red lines all along the teeth line? Like mine? After dental that dessapeared? Markies has also that red line in the spots of the extracted teeth.

 

[Silvina]

Unfortunately, the only treatment I've ever heard that works for stomatitis is full mouth extraction, but generally, it can really improve the quality of life for the cat

sad

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

not really....what's more important is that they're comfortable and have a good quality of life.....what would be a lot sadder would be for him to be miserable for the rest of his life

I'm glad to see you've joined and posted in the Facebook group, Feline Stomatitis.....they seem to really know their stuff

 

[Wulfwin]

Bear in mind that the following is based on my experience working as a vet tech (not registered) at an animal shelter - I'm certainly not a vet, and all of my training is from the
'school of hard knocks' (as my personal vet likes to say):

Regarding herpesvirus (aka feline rhinotracheitis) and calicivirus - they account for the majority of upper respiratory illness in cats. The usual figure that I hear is that between 70-90% of cats have been exposed to herpes. Between the two, calici tends to cause more severe cases, probably at least partially because it causes ulcers (particularly nasal and oral). Both viruses can become chronic in certain cats, where they will experience flare ups of upper respiratory symptoms particularly during times of stress (both of my current cats are chronic cases). Calici can certainly cause ulcers on the gums and other places in the mouth. The antibiotic that you are using, Doxycycline, is a standard treatment for secondary upper respiratory infections (URIs) caused by herpes or calici (since both are viruses, it's really treating the secondary infections, not treating the underlying virus). It's the most commonly used antibiotic in our shelter for URIs. In cases of calici, our vets do often prescribe either an additional antibiotic (Orbax) in conjunction with the Doxycycline, or treat with Orbax and Clavamox (another antibiotic), instead of Doxycycline. If Markie doesn't respond to the Doxycycline, that might be something worth looking into. If there's concurrent stomatitis/gingivitis, that would likely require different/additional treatments (different antibiotic such as Clindamycin, steroids, etc) but I'm not as familiar with that issue so I'll leave that for others who are.

Was Markie on any antibiotic following his dental in January? Depending on the severity of dental disease (and particularly in cases of extraction), our shelter vets will typically do a course of Clindamycin following a dental.

Like Christine, I did do a partial full mouth extraction on my cat Jason. He's had horrible teeth since I've gotten him, where he developed cavities and plaque very quickly (like 9 months after a dental, he needed another one). We gradually extracted teeth yearly, until I asked my vet to take the rest of his pre-molars (his molars were extracted long ago) with his last dental since I was becoming more and more hesitant to put him under anesthesia give his age (17). All he has left now are 2 canines and his incisors. He is much happier and peppier since that dental though!

Also, if Markie or your other kitties are having issues with chronic herpes or calici even with the lysine, you could check with your vet about trying an intra-nasal/intra-ocular FVRC vaccine (this is different from the typical subcutaneous FVRCP vaccine that cats get, as it does not protect against panleuk). My personal vet uses it in chronic cases (including my 2 cats) and has had good luck with it controlling symptomatic flares.

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Silvi,

I'm sorry to hear that Markies mouth is so sore.

Recently I received a recommendation from another FDMB member about ubiquinol - a form of Coenzyme Q10. A formulation suitable for pets (pump dispenser) can be found at the Dr Mercola website. I've not yet tried it for Saoirse so I can't speak for whether the supplement is beneficial but it is supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties and apparently it may be of particular benefit for gum problems. Perhaps if you ask on the Feline Stomatitis FB group they might be able to give you more information about this supplement and whether it might be helpful to Markies?

NB: I have also received a caution about CoQ10 supplementation: once you commence giving the supplement it must not be stopped suddenly.


Mogs
.

 

[Spunky's Mama]

Yes it did disappear - Humans with gingivitis get those red lines as well. Sometimes a simple cleaning will do the trick but depends on the extent. My girl Shanti they did a cleaning and no extractions - I kind of wish they'd just taken them out as 2 yrs later they were extracted anyways!

You are so kind and also funny!
Question, the one that only has three teeth left, he had previously gingivitis with those horrible red lines all along the teeth line? Like mine? After dental that dessapeared? Markies has also that red line in the spots of the extracted teeth.

 

[BJM]

There is also a Yahoo group for feline stomatitis. Some of the things folks have tried include lactoferrin, and the Dallas syrup (concocted at a Dallas, TX vet, contains 2 antibiotics among other things).

 

[scoobydoox]

wow the quality of those pics! what phone are you using? you could probably search for vets that have more experience in cat dental and email them those pictures for possibly more choices of how to treat it.

 

[Vyktors Mum]

@Silvina
Sorry it's taken me so long to answer you life has been very busy of late! I started replying when you posted but didn't get finished and now everything I wrote is gone so I'm going to give you the short version now - that is definitely stomatitis, you can tell because of the areas of the mouth that are affected. The only chance for a cure, unless Markies is one of the very lucky ones whose mouth clears up with a course of antibiotics and it doesn't come back, is to have the teeth removed. That will cure around 60% of cats and it is without a doubt your best option. About another 20% will have their symptoms reduced so much that they won't need further treatment. You want to make sure you get someone that knows what they're doing and takes X-rays afterwards. If any tooth fragments or roots are left in it is a waste of time.

Steroids will generally give the kitty some immediate relief but will make the condition worse in the long run, antibiotics may help to start off with but can't be used effectively long term because the bacteria become resistant. Other vet options are immunosuppressants which may or may not work and may result in a host of other problems or non-steroidal anti inflammatories like metacam which is also not recommended for long term use and may lead to kidney damage.

If you can't get a cure from having the teeth removed then you can only try to control it. This is a very difficult prospect because there is nothing that works for all cats. Using the mouthwash is good if Markies can take it. No way Vyktor would let me do that, instead I use a product called plaque off that I add to his food - this product cannot be used for hyperthyroid kitties. Chinese medicine can work well for some cats but the herbs are very bitter so you need to be able to pill the cat. The l lysine won't hurt either.

I have to tell you that I find trying to manage the stomatitis much worse than the diabetes. It is a really nasty horrible disease and can make the cat very depressed because they are always in pain and ruin their quality of life. If you can get a cure with the teeth taken out this is the best thing for the quality of life. There is no problem for a domestic cat functioning without teeth so apart from the initial operation and recovery life is normal for them.

By the way calicivirus is very common in stomatitis cases.

 

[MsBliss]

Hi Silvi,

I'm sorry to hear that Markies mouth is so sore.

Recently I received a recommendation from another FDMB member about ubiquinol - a form of Coenzyme Q10. A formulation suitable for pets (pump dispenser) can be found at the Dr Mercola website. I've not yet tried it for Saoirse so I can't speak for whether the supplement is beneficial but it is supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties and apparently it may be of particular benefit for gum problems. Perhaps if you ask on the Feline Stomatitis FB group they might be able to give you more information about this supplement and whether it might be helpful to Markies?

NB: I have also received a caution about CoQ10 supplementation: once you commence giving the supplement it must not be stopped suddenly.


Mogs
.

Wow. I didn't know about stopping CoQ10 suddenly. Thank you for posting that. There is anecdotal evidence that CoQ10 will help with stomatitis, but I think as part of a multi-pronged treatment course too.