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What dose were you thinking? Since his last three PMPS has been pretty much the same, maybe I would go 3u of course with your usual monitoring tonight. I have a question, have you always given Jack 4u? I guess what I am asking if you started off with a different possibly lower dose or did you start off with 4u?
 
Jack started out with 1 u. when he was first diagnosed which wasn't enough. Over the last year and a half (maybe 2) years he was increased to 3 units which he was on for quite a while. As I said earlier, he clearly needed more. His mid cycle number was 502 at the vet's (I know that it was elevated due to the stress) because he was peeing like a fiend--large amounts and inappropriately. The vet said to give him 4 units. This was on 10/16/15 so he's only been on 4 units a little under 2 weeks. Last night I gave him 3.5. I just shot him as if I waited much longer, I wouldn't be able to shoot him before work. I gave him 3.75 since someone above said not to change the dose by full units. His numbers seemed to stay high after last night's 3.5 dose. I'll check him in 2 - 3 hours and when I get up an hour before a.m. shot time. This weekend I'll get a curve done. Last weekend I managed to get a mid cycle test in on Friday--6 hours after shot and it was 346. His a.m. dose that day was 4 units and the sitter gave him 4 units each time while we were away.
 
Oh, ok that helps. Sorry if you already explained that in prior posts. Yep, it looks like he needs that higher dose. It is just hard to suggest without knowing that nadir. Yes it is true that it is better to increase with incremental 0.25 or 0.50 units rather than one whole unit.
 
That's probably why the vet said to keep him on 4 units when I called her. It was 166 though at that time so I waited for it to go above 200. Glad to have that info. Saturday he should be able to be tested mid cycle. Sunday definitely as I will be home all day as well as Monday so he will be getting poked a lot!
 
Ahhhh....poor little guy. You might want to pick up some Neosporin with "pain" ointment if you don't already have it.
 
Hi Vicki! Yeah, those mid cycle numbers will be super helpful for you and for us. Til then, I think you're doing great!
 
I'm super curious to see his AMPS. I have some suspicions as to what might be happening...we'll know more after this weekend probably. Have you fed him yet or is he still waiting for food?
 
Don't think so. There may have been a few kibbles in the dish but I had not fed him. Just gave him a treat after testing.
 
Good morning ladies! Today and tomorrow are the days I hope to run a curve on Jack. I did get an 8 hour reading on him yesterday. How frequently should I test him today? I was thinking every 2 hours. Is that sufficient or should it be hourly?
 
Every 2 hours is perfect. You might try every 2 hours, then every hour between +5 and +7 so we can figure out where nadir is. I don't usually say to do that for a curve, but unless you know for sure where nadir usually falls, it can help.
 
Thanks. I'll do that. I'm leaving his food out like I always do. Don't know how much difference that makes but it's how he normally is. He nibbles a little during the day.
 
I think it's best to keep things the same. That way, we'll know how he reacts to a dose on a normal day. :)
 
If you are going to do two days, then I might switch the testing times up so they are different hours like today's example could be 2,4,6,8,10 and tomorrow would be 3,5,7,9. Oh you better get the pain neosporin out just in case.
 
Well we got through the first 12 hours of a lot of testing. Jack's numbers were higher during the day than I expected. Nothing in the 100's as in past days. Jack was very cooperative. He gets a treat after his test and he just stays there and waits. I feel bad for all the pricks on his little ears but he doesn't seem bothered. I'll be filling in the spreadsheet tomorrow as well. He just got his pm shot so I'll test him in a couple of hours before I go to bed.
 
Hmmm. This cycle is definitely higher than yesterday. Glad you're getting a test tonight. Wonder if he possibly goes lower overnight and bounces?
 
I am so glad I am not the only one going thru this…. just reading others and it sounds crazy but it helps to know others are going thru this ….we love our babies! Appreciate all the wisdom for sure!
 
What an odd cycle. He's been having those lower numbers and then yesterday decides to stay higher! And dipping into the yellows late too...not sure what was going on. Was anything different about his day yesterday (other than all the ear pokes!)?
 
Jack's numbers were a little lower this morning preshot so I gave him 3.75 u. I'm wondering if I should just keep it at 4 units as long as his pre shot BG is over 200.
 
His numbers did seem to be coming down, if only slightly. I'd guess the jump back up may have been due to contraband.
 
I think you have two issues (let's think of them as opportunities). Food and getting more information. I know you have several cats and have hunted for something to feed everyone. But, if Jack could eat just low carb wet, it might make a huge difference in his levels. I read back over the thread and am not sure if there is a low carb everyone can safely eat? If so, you can leave it out during the day for grazing. If you think one would eat it all, you could freeze it and leave it to thaw so they can only munch. Or use automatic feeders (the cheaper two slot kinds might work for this) and have them open at the same time so everyone has to pick one for a mid day snack. If he gets high carb crunchier, it can raise his numbers by 100+. It also makes it hard for you to figure out how the insulin is really working. I know this is a problem and a pain to try to solve, but it might really make a difference in his levels.

Two, you need more data. The numbers you have gotten show him he drops and maybe fairly low (your 183at +11 makes me wonder how low he was earlier?). So your pre shot reds may all be bounces and the 4 units may mean a lower nadir and bigger bounce daily. That will make it very hard to regulate him. Can you wake up at night and get a number 5-7 hours after the shot? ( If you're anywhere near my age, you're up then anyway.....). Can you get a curve this weekend - every 2-3 hours during the day. That would give you some good information on what is actually happening with the dose.
 
All my cats get low carb food. The best for Jack is poultry but Luna is really allergic to it so I try to feed them rabbit. Sometimes they get fish but I have to temper that because it causes Jack intestinal upset. Not being home all day creates issues. I'm a teacher so on the days I'm off I monitor the wet food intake and give more of that. I also sometimes give the frozen Stella & Chewy raw rabbit. I'm a little hesitant to leave the raw out all day when I'm not home though. It's hard to know who is eating what. I'll try to get another curve done on Saturday but I'll be out much of the day on Sunday. When I retire the end of this school year, then things will be easier. I can't get up and test at night. I can test before I go to bed. As it is I only get about 5 hours of sleep when I'm working. His dry food has the lowest percentage of calories I could find in a non chicken food. I went through all of the foods on petfooddirect.com and put the nutrition info in the balanceit calculator. Can't get any lower carb dry than we have. I don't put much out and there are 3 cats eating it. Jack is always the first to the dish when I serve them the wet food. I make "gravy" for him because he loves that and he pretty much cleans that up from all 3 dishes. I think Luna eats more dry. In all my years, this is the first time I've ever had a cat with food allergies.
 
for leaving any raw food out -
There are trays with freezer sections under them to keep things cold if set out, or you might be able to rig something freezing. Water in heavy duty zip lock bags with a bowl set on them. Perhaps that would let you leave out some of the rabbit.
 
After 5 days of high numbers, they're low today. 12 hours after the am shot, still below 200 so I may have to skip tonight. I go to work at 7:30 am so I have to shoot him by then. It's almost 9 pm now so I may wait and test him at 5:30 am when I get up and shoot him then. This is a first. When he's been in the 100's at +10 or +11 before he would always be over 200 at shot time!
 
This morning numbers were really low. I tested twice because the first one was 87 and the second was 129 so I skipped the shot. What is my best course of action? I work tomorrow and I have to leave at 7:30 am. I typically shoot between 5:30 and 7:30 on work days. We had gotten off this weekend and we were doing shots at 8:30 am/pm. I'll continue testing him. Perhaps I should just wait until around 4 or 5 pm and shoot him then so I can do it in the morning before work. I noticed that there was no dry food in the dish this morning and I wonder if I forgot to leave a little for them which could account for his low numbers.
 
If you skip, then you can shoot earlier and get back on schedule. If not having dry can get him into these ranges, it would be a huge step, so maybe redouble your efforts to get dry out of the house. I've forgotten - what is the issue with dry? What kind of dry? Maybe we can help you brainstorm how to go to all wet.
 
I feed wet but supplement with a little dry when I'm out. We have diet restrictions. One of my cats is terribly allergic to poultry so I feed rabbit wet in the mornings and fish at night. My diabetic can't eat all fish because it will give him diarrhea. The dry I give is Orijens Regional which is all red meat and the highest level of protein/ least level of calories from carbs I can get (I put all my foods into the calculator at balanceit.com). I typically don't add much dry--just a tiny bit before I leave the house and before I go to bed. Even without the dry, they often don't finish the wet. They like gravy so when I'm home, I'll add water to their wet food throughout the day and they eat more of it that way. I used to give them Stella and Chewy freeze dried in lieu of dry but had to stop when my one kitty developed the allergy--all the S&C freeze dried have chicken in them.
 
Now I remember. You have all the dietary issues. All I can suggest is, if not having dry can change your diabetic's levels that much, it might be worth your while to leave out the wet and let them graze on it, or freeze it and leave it out to thaw and then supplement with the dry just for the kitty who needs it when you are there to monitor.

I can't find your dry brand on any of the food charts.
 
It's a new variety. Came out less than a year ago--maybe in the last 4 or 5 months. Previously I had used Instinct Raw Boost Chicken which had the lowest number of carbs but then the allergies started and I switched to the Instinct rabbit which was higher in carbs. The Orijens has similar carbs to the Instinct Chicken so I was thrilled when that came out--except for the fact that it is about $70 for a 15 lb. bag! I noticed that several of the foods I use are not on the food chart. I didn't see Earthborn or Wellness Select in the canned varieties. I don't think I saw the Instinct canned rabbit or Pride canned rabbit either. I'll have to look again for those.
 
I hope I did the right thing this morning. I tested Jack at the 12 hour point and his BG was 123 so I waited a little over an hour to test him again. His BG was 207 at that point. I had to go to work so I decided to skip. His normal dose is somewhat high--4 units of Prozinc--but I was afraid to go ahead and shoot him given I wouldn't be home for about 11 hours. Fortunately after today, I'm on winter break so I can run a curve on him.
 
Skipping is better than giving the four units. It definitely looks like he needs a reduction. It may be that a sliding scale will help or just a lower dose that may eliminate the bouncing. A curve will give you some good information and help you figure out where to go from here. He definitely needs some sort of dose reduction.
 
Hello! I'm wondering if someone could look at our spreadsheet as I was able to test a little more over the holidays. Jack seems to be bouncing--particularly after the evening when I had to skip a shot. This evening I tested him preshot and got BG168 so I went ahead and fed them and waiting an hour and 15 minutes to test again. He was at BG268 at that time so I slightly reduced his dose from 4 to 3.75U. He does nibble throughout the evening. There are notes in the remarks column that are pertinent. Thanks for any advice about dosing.
 
It looks to me like 4 units is a little too much for a yellow. Good job stalling and retesting. The 3.75 may be fine or a little too much. You'll see in the am
 
It is unlikely he bounced the night you skipped. More likely he was higher after 24 hours since the last shot. If you can avoid skipping but instead stall and retest and reduce the dose a little, it's the best approach
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It is unlikely he bounced the night you skipped. More likely he was higher after 24 hours since the last shot. If you can avoid skipping but instead stall and retest and reduce the dose a little, it's the best approach
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I agree but stalling isn't always possible. I shot him at 7:15 this evening. If he's below 200 or in the low 200's at 7:15 am then I have to skip as I leave the house at 7:30. I'm a teacher and can't work flex hours. When I do skip in the morning like that then I will give him his evening shot earlier, but this is the challenge I face. I try to shoot him at 6 am and 6 pm so I can stall. I'll test him at 6 am. If he's over 250. I'll probably shoot him then. I always feed him when I shoot him. Should I keep with the 3.75 U for a while?
 
As long as he doesn't drop into the low 200s (or lower) 3.75 sounds good. If you are dosing an hour earlier, you might even do less 3.5?
 
That may work. If I have to shoot him earlier, I skip if he's below 200. He's often been able to take a shot 11 hours after the previous one. I've discovered that the prozinc peaks at 8 hours with him so at 11 hours his BG is going up. I still don't shoot below 200. The vet seems to think it's okay to do so since his BG is going up at that point and he will be eating.
 
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