Help me figure this out before we lose remission please!

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JenM

JenM

Member Since 2013
Tink has been diet regulated for nearly two months now. Feeding Wellness GF (4% flavors) four times a day (via timed feeder) seems to keep his numbers in check. Or at least it did. Morning numbers have been weird, but seemed to level out once we figured out the 4x/day feeding schedule. However, once again, I'm seeing higher numbers in the morning. This morning's was 133, which is by far the highest we've seen in months. This has me worried. I just did a curve yesterday and it looked great - then I get a 133. Oddly enough, yesterday, his AM# was not that high. Nothing was different.

Dawn phenomenon has been mentioned and sounds like maybe something you just have to deal with. But I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to keep him diet regulated. I see NO reason why his AM numbers should be higher. If anything, I'd expect them to be LOW, since it's the longest he goes without eating.

Though now as I'm typing this... I wonder if I dont need to give him a "midnight snack" - maybe of an ultra low carb food.

Even with the timed feeder, the multiple feedings are trying. We've yet to find a good way to keep the other cats from having access to Tink's extra meals. The other cats are eating a larger breakfast, then early and late dinners - so only missing the mid-day feeding that Tink gets via the feeder. However, to facilitate this, I have to lock Tarzan in my daughter's bedroom when I leave for work. The other two aren't that fanatical about food, so I am assuming Tink gets his meal. Tink seems to be the "boss" over those two, wheras Tarzan challenges Tink. I had originally kept Tink locked in my room... but he can open the door and I've yet to find a way to prevent this (it's an old fashioned french door that I can't lock and that opens inward, so I can't blockade it once it's closed. I suppose I COULD put a hook and eye on it if I really have to, but would prefer to not damage the finish by doing this.

But to facilitate a nighttime feeding will be troublesome. If I lock him in my room, I wont sleep. He'll meow at the door all night. If I put the timed feeder out in the house, it MIGHT work (Tarzan is in my daughter's room overnight anyway) - he'd only have to contend with the two who are more submissive to him. I can try it. Hmm... actually, a velcro strap across the handles MIGHT work... I'll have to attempt it. (Gee... maybe just ASKING you all is enough to get MY mind brainstorming! :lol: )

But I'm really hoping someone here might have more insight as to why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

Thanks!
 
And just to give a timeframe on feedings and testing... my "AMPS" column represents 6am and my "PMPS" is 6pm. This is why on the weekends and holidays, the AM test doesn't happen until +2 or 3 - since I get up later.

Feedings are typically at 6:15am, timer is set for 5-6 hours later (it's a 48hr timer, so not terribly exact) - so roughly 11-12noon. I feed when I get home, usually around 4pm, sometimes 5 - and then before bed usually around 9pm or 9:30. Weekends are the same except a later first breakfast and sometimes a later last dinner (almost never after 10pm).

So, during the day, he goes no more than 5-6hours without food... overnight it's more like 8-9hrs.
 
I would work with the food and see if he improves. There are cats who stay in remission numbers after they eat, even if they are a little higher at the test. Simon on the PZI forum is a good example of this. He drops 60 points or so after he eats. The secret for him is small, frequent meals.

And get another test. There's always the possibility that it was a fluke.

If he continues higher, even with your food changes, a drop of insulin may help.
 
what is this happy hips treat? Higher carb foods can stay in the system for 24 hours

You want to keep a close eye on this. If he stays too much over 130 then vet time for a check up - for infection i.e. dental, ear, UTI etc. And back on insulin asap

for now though.. try food. and let me know about this treat.

Wendy
 
The treat is a Glucosamine supplement treat by CatsWell. Chicken breast, glucosamine, chondritin, flaxseed and vitamin E. I've only given it to him a few times - including during the curve I did on Sunday and it didnt seem to have any effect on his bg... but still, I haven't been giving it to him until we get this figured out. He gets 100% freeze dried chicken or turkey from Pure Bites as his post-poke-treat. I do really want to get him on some sort of glucosamine supplement though, as he has "old man hips" and this really helped my last two elderly kitties when their hips started to go. I think Tink has some Manx in him too, based on his shape, which doesn't help with the hip issues.

This morning he was only at 103... I just dont understand why his AM numbers fluctuate so much. Not a THING is different. There is no food for him to get into, we're feeding the same thing on the same schedule... it's just weird.
 
JenM said:
Though now as I'm typing this... I wonder if I dont need to give him a "midnight snack" - maybe of an ultra low carb food.
Click to expand...

Did he get a midnight snack last night? Did you notice how active he might have been during the night? Activity levels can also influence BGs and aren't really anything we can control.
 
He did not get a midnight snack last night. Nighttime activity... bcatrun_gif flip_cat :RAHCAT :dizcat bcatrun_gif = one sleepy bean. :lol: No, really, they're usually pretty good. Didnt notice any EXTRA activity last night.

Tink definitely has his appetite back though. Usually eats his food and then tries to eat everyone else's. I've been feeding him in my room so that can't happen. It's mostly just a morning thing, cuz that's when the others get 1/4 can each and he only gets 1/8, since he gets the other 1/8 later via the timed feeder. So I just make sure to keep him in my room until the others have finished their meals.

He's up to a decent weight at 11.8. I need to weigh him again in the next day or two as I think he may still be gaining. That tells me that despite HIM thinking he needs more, he really doesn't. While I'd like to see more muscle mass in his hip area, that doesn't seem to be where the extra calories stick... so I dont want to see him get past 12lb. He was 14 pre-diagnosis... but he was a bit of a chub. He's a very compact kitty and CERTAINLY doesn't need to weight 14lb. I wonder if even 12 is desireable. He was quite "empty" feeling when he came home from the vet weighing 10.6... but he definitely feels healthy now - with maybe a bit of extra tumtum still.
 
Well, I've not changed a darned thing... but his AM#'s have been great the last two days. Maybe he just likes to keep me on my toes?? nailbite_smile
 
Hehe! That's a cat for you! I'd write off those highs as an anomaly and just keep an eye him. Maybe he does have Dawn Phenomena on some mornings.
shrug.gif
 
UGH. He did it again - 131 on 2/4 morning test, before food. He's trying to drive me crazy! The next day he's at 78. @-)

ONE issue I have discovered, is that the timed feeder is CRAP. It's got a LITTLE prong that keeps it closed. UNLESS you have a cat that actually likes FOOD. A hummingbird could bust it open. One side seems reasonably secure, so I use it for his mid-day feeding. However, some days, if I know I have to work a longer day - I need to use both compartments. Since the one side opens SO easily, I have NO way of knowing when he eats his second meal. I'm ASSUMING the one compartment stays closed... but haven't been able to confirm that.

I may need to buy another one just to see if it's a design flaw, or if it's just the one I have. I'm also thinking about mounting the base to the floor somehow, as I've found it in all sorts of weird places when I get home. Of course that COULD make it even easier to open...

SO frustrating to spend $30 on a cat bowl and have it not even work as intended. If you have to use a timed feeder, chances are your cat likes food a little too much (other wise wouldn't you just free feed more often than not?). Grrrr.

/end rant. ;-)
 
As long as he's staying consistently under 150, I wouldn't worry too much about the occasional 130 numbers in the mornings.

I got a 2-compartment timed feeder on sale for $10 bucks and used it for the first couple of months with Mikey. He's never really been food driven and never tried to open it, but it was still ridiculously easy for me to pop it open on my own. I stopped using it when I got Henry...which was probably a good thing since he would have torn it apart! ohmygod_smile Now I just free-feed them. The PetSmart 5 food safes are what I think most people use around here because your cat would have to be a safe-cracker to get into them. :lol:
 
Have you tried freezing part of the meal, so he can nibble as it thaws? Its difficult to scarf a block of ice ...
 
Freezing is a good idea. Problem is though... if he can't eat it right when it opens, it just increases the chances of someone else eating it. But... I think I'm just going to put a hook & eye in my nice french style door (ugh) so I can keep him locked in my room with his food. Then that would work. Even if he does pop it open, he still wouldn't be able to eat it right away.

I did check out the same feeder at Petco yesterday and theirs was much harder to open. So I'm pretty sure the one compartment on mine is just faulty. He literally has it opened within 30 minutes - the other compartment SEEMS to be secure... though I can't be certain it's lasting the full 5-6 hours. But he's never had it open before I leave, unlike the other one. Still... I DO need to use both compartments some days (not often, but still). The guy at Petco said I could exchange it even without the receipt so I'm going to do that. Still might look into the "safe" though, mentioned above.

Thanks to all of you though. Good to know I dont have to freak out over an occasional 130. I'd love to stop having to test him every day... but until numbers are consistent, I dont feel comfortable going to once a week. I'm hoping one of these weekends will show a high AM # so I can do a curve and see what that does to the rest of his day.

I go on a weeklong vacation in May... so I dont know if he's just trying to stress me out or what. My 18yr old will be "in charge" while I'm gone - and technically he's her cat... she lives at home, so it SHOULDNT be terribly stressful for him having me gone. She knows she HAS to stick to the routine and I'm already starting to teach her how to do everything (she watched the first bg test this morning... I'll make sure she's comfortable actually DOING it before I leave of course).

One last question... since he's not currently ON insulin... how long can I safely hang onto my ProZinc "just in case"? I'd hate to spend $200 on a regular basis to have it on hand when I'm not using it... but I also dont feel safe NOT having it on hand. Of course I suppose a few days of high #'s aren't going to send him into DKA (hopefully?), but it still worries me since this stuff seems to have a short shelf life.
 
You might check it monthly for precipitates and floaters. If none, keep. If some, pitch.

In a pinch, you can get Humulin N OTC in the USA.
 
Oh, that's very good to know (Humulin N, OTC). Thank you.

SO... this morning I may have found the answer to his sporadic high morning #'s. His feeder had been popped open before I left for work - even the "secure" side (one side is VERY easy to open, the other more secure). UGH. So, he had breakfast and lunch within an hour (6-7am), and now wont eat again until about 4pm. This is how I always USED to feed them, but then discovered that more frequent meals got his bg in check. For those who dont recall my journey, we started out by breaking dinner into two meals, which regulated him decent, but we were still seeing high numbers in the morning (which is weird, since his pm meals were small and frequent, but that's a cat for ya). It was only when I got the timed feeder that I was able to do 4 small meals per day, and that's when we got his morning numbers under control. WELL... then he apparently got online while I was at work and took some lock-picking tutorials on YouTube. :cool: ohmygod_smile

SO... the manager at Petco DID say they'd exchange the feeder without a receipt (which I most likely tossed when the feeder "worked" initially). However... now I'm HOPING they'll let me exchange for the 5compartment one instead, which looks MUCH more secure. They dont stock it, but they have it on their website. It's going to mean a couple days without that second morning meal... but as it turns out, he's probably getting that earlier than I thought anyway.
 
It's good you figured out this puzzle, Jen. My cats went through two feeders (both the kind that flip up) before we got the PetSafe 5. Because the lid revolves, it is very hard to break into. Hope you have success with it!
 
I've got the Petsafe 5 and my little ravenous beast, who can open 2 types of Tupperware cannisters, tear into dog/cat food bags in seconds, and who I caught riding on top of my canned & boxed goods in my base lazy susan cabinet - eating some egg noodles from a torn-open bag (acros are known to be ravenous!) - can't get it open. Unfortunately, his dogs did - ONCE. I strongly recommend it!

Something else that may be worth looking into... for MONTHS Grayson was high & flat. Turned out he had a staph infection in his ear. Got that cleared up and his numbers improved amazingly. It just looked like dark gunk in his ears, and I cleaned them, but they needed medicated drops - and all was well. Don't overlook something so simple as that.

And we have another acro that seems to drop every time there's a full moon. It's crazy, but he's very consistent otherwise.

No telling what these guys are thinking, but I would look at all the possibilities. Good luck! Hopefully the feeder will make all the difference you need.

Lu-Ann
 
Well, so far Tink seems highly irritated with the new Petsafe 5. :lol: He was VERY determined to figure it out this morning, clawing incessantly at the top of it, directly over where the next meal was hanging out. Head down, staring at it intently as if hoping to "will it" to move... pawing, pawing, pawing... staring... cat(2)_steam It was quite hysterical!

I'm already concocting plans on how to improve upon the design if he DOES manage to figure anything out. I could lock the lid by drilling one hole and using either a mini lock or a carabeener. I was planning on anchoring the old feeder to the floor, via a hole/screw through the base... but this feeder is MUCH heavier... so maybe I wont need to.

Yesterday must have been my lucky day. They actually had the Petsafe 5 in stock at the store. I thought I'd have to order it online and wait for it - even the employee was surprised they had it. LOL
 
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