Help-Joe quit eating today

Someone the FB FD page told me to post in the Prozinc thread so I did. Waited all day and no answers. I do not think many people visit that thread so copying and posting here instead.

"Joe has been low as of late, so low that I have had to stall to give shot. Today he was super high #'s and he will not eat. I was able to test once, but only once because testing requires me to get him interested in some tuna bites with tuna water and he has turned his nose up that. I did shot anyway since he had some bites.
Can I give him something I feel he will eat even if it is not in his diet? Meow Mix Medleys?
He also has stage 2 CKD
EDITED at 12:30PM. Joe is now hiding. licked a tiny bit of juice from a meal I presented but only once I slid it to where he was hiding.
EDITED at 4PM Joe came out of hiding and asked for food. He ate very little. I have tried to get into my vet and have not been successful and so I have a message for her to call me and she usually calls in the evening

 

I would let him eat whatever he wants right now, just to get food into him. How is he right now?

 

He is better right now. Seems more interested, out in the general population. He ate a little more but I withdrew it so I can test at 630 and hopefully give insulin
Wondering about those Churo treats and their carb content. Anyone know? He loves them

 

Any history of ketones? Do you have strips to test for them? It would be a good idea to test for them given his inappetence and high numbers. More info on ketones here - link.

 

not familiar with ketones? I wasn't either before Jax was dx with diabetes. With that said, high ketones are life threatening and can progress rapidly. The basic recipe for developing Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA) = an insufficient supply of insulin + inappetence + infection OR other systemic stresses.

You can buy human ketone urine strips at a pharmacy/Target/Walmart and just need to catch a fresh urine sample.

In addition to the link in my previous post, I also like this one - Ketones, Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA), and Blood Ketone Meters - it has a good graphic as well as a link to tips for catching a urine sample (I just held the strip in Jax's pee personally but not all kitties are okay with that).

 

I do not know about ketones. I have ignored that, like I ignored the SS at first as I could not imagine making it work. I have a call in to my vet and am going to ask them to check the ketones while I look for a good monitor. I do not think I can make the strips (urine dip) work

 

I need a link for a good ketone monitor.

 

I'm not familiar with churo treats, LOL!

 

The ketone strips are easy to use. Sometimes, like with my 2 diabetics, they pee so heavy that they leave a lake behind. I dip right in that. Otherwise, members hold a small cup under their kitties to catch some urine, or even hold the strip right in the stream.

 

lol

 

I didn't mean to delete that post! The one that you quoted. I was going to edit and clear up my meaning, and I hit delete!

 

I used the novamax from adwdiabetes - the meter is free with purchase of strips - https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/20784/free-nova-max-glucose-ketone-meter

With that said, I also kept urine strips on hand (and used them before the blood ketone monitor - ketone blood strips are $$$) - Here are Tips to catch and test a urine sample

 

do you have to collect the urine right after? Or can you do it like 30 minutes later? I am not always able to watch and wait for him to pee

 

I do it immediately, if I'm there to see one of them stroll into the box. I dip the tip only into the urine, not into the litter. If your litter absorbs quick or if Joe doesn't pee heavy, you can use a cup or stick the strip under him while he goes.

 

I just cannot imagine making this work. I never see him go

 

I've been following you and Jack recently as I've been having to stall also. Have you considered using the Libre on him to give him and you a break while you fine tune his dosage? I know not everyone here is a fan and it would be very expensive if used constantly in place of BG tests, but while determining Starbursts dosage I have found it a huge help. It takes a measurement every few minutes and will create a curve. I scan Starburst every 1/2 hour during the day now (and whenever I wake up during the night), but I'm going overboard on data collection .
Starburst really reacts to BG ear testing (I have done it twice recently and it hasn't been so triggering for her) so I can't imagine the stress of all the testing when you have to stall. Maybe something yo talk to the vet about?
As for food, have you tried Weruva Goody Stew Shoes? That's the biggest hit around here and is still acceptable in carbs (8.5%) and phosphorus for ckd-diabetics.

 

Do you have any other cats? If not you can buy "litter" that is made for testing....it doesn't absorb, just has the urine pool on top. If you get into the vet they can test with a urinalysis. Good luck

 

Hi Starburst's mom! and thank you so much for your input. I have thought about the Libre but I have felt like Joe would find a way to take it off. lol How does Starburst do with it?
I finally got a cll back from my vet and she is going to see him in the morning to check for ketones which is my current worry. I have to get some sort of ketone monitor I am sure. We bought a bunch Of Weruva's, Nine Livers is a big hit here BUT only if I cut up all the chicken shreds. lol. I will look into that Goody Stew Shoe4s, I think it is on Janets list she gave me. I will check.
Sadly, Joe also has stage 2 KD too so the food has to be low in phosphorus and carbs now.

 

Starburst has done well with the Libre. I do have a vet wrap wrapped around the sensor and her body and a dog shirt but even without the shirt she didnt mess with it (I fear she will undo the vet wrap without the shirt and tge vet wrap I think is helping keep the sensor movement minimal).
My cats aren't fans of the shreds, they prefer the pate foods but they all love the stew ones from weruva. It is on Janet's list for ckd-diabetic foods (Starburst is stage 2 ckd as well) as is the "What a Crock" stew if memory serves (the weruva website does show the info too if needed). Finding food they like that has low phosphorus has been touchy sometimes.
Hang in there, hope he eats good for the rest of the day and your vet has some ideas to help!

 

A monitor would be good for you. Not every cat pees like Jack does!

 

Does this monitor also test for ketones?
I came home to horrible diarrhea all over the carpet tonight. Joe has been having accidents all over the house lately even though I put out more litter boxes to make a total of 8 (3 cats) most of the time it is on the wood floor or a throw rug and I can toss it and clean the floor. Tonight it was in a carpeted room. I am beside myself. I feel drained and hopeless

 

The Libre just checks glucose levels. I'm sorry about the diarrhea, that sounds awful. Hang in there. Does he appear dehydrated?

 

@JaxBenji shared a link, above, for a meter that tests for ketones. I'm sorry that Joe is having such a hard way to go, and that you had such a mess to clean up. I hope you get some answers at the vet"s tomorrow.

 

No, not really and this morning he asked to go outside and I let him (a good sign) he trotted off down the d.way and then down the sidewalk as far as one house and then just sat there. Watching the morning. He was back in 10 minutes (I watched)
Seems much better today. Ate breakfast, numbers were a little low at amps but climbed in 15 minutes

thank you for this I will read it all and decide after ve visit what I should do

 

what do you think I should ask? Aside from getting ketones checked? ask for something for the diarrhea of course. Anything else? I am just so overwhelmed and uncertain all of the sudden. I was so confident a week ago

 

I would ask for a prescription for ondansetron for nausea, and ask for some cyproheptadine for an appetite stimulant, to keep at your house should his appetite wain again.

 

I'm glad that he's feeling so much better this morning! I 2nd what @Dyana suggested. Something for nausea and something to stimulate his appetite would be good. Just be sure to treat for nausea if you're giving him something to make him hungry. Otherwise, Joe will be uncomfortably hungry and not able to eat if he feels sick.
You're doing a great job taking care of Joe. It's so stressful.

 

I will call the vet and ask for these things. I left the vet's office with Metronizale for diarrhea.

 

I shot 3 units for the last couple of times due to a moderator on the FB diabetes thread suggesting it and since he was so low at pre shot a couple of times. I am not sure I should have dropped it to 3 units.
I would love some advice. He is in the high 300's this evening and fighting being tested. Still not feeling good. Did second dose of Metronizadale to help with diarrhea. He is eating but not as hungry as usual and does not seem like he feels good

 

This is taken from the Prozinc forum on the Dosing Methods sticky:

"The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.

• If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
• If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
• If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit"

None of his BG numbers were below 90, so the dose didn't need to be lowered.
There's a lot of great information in that sticky. I've read and reread it so many times that it's actually starting to make sense!

 

@Susan Pomo. For diarrhea, I recommend Pro-Pectalin. I bought a tube from my vet, and it worked great. I then learned I could buy it at Amazon or Chewy (smaller 15cc tube is currently in stock). It's a paste Joe can lick off your finger or you can put it on his tongue or on the roof of his mouth. A little goes a long way so try just a small amount to start and see how it goes. It works quickly, within a day or so, not only for cats but for dogs too. I like to keep it on hand because Smoky gets bored with his food, but if I switch varieties too often or too quickly, it unsettles his stomach. The tube will last a while and does not need refrigeration. Great stuff.

 

OK. Thanks of that DJM. I went in search of that sticky again, that I have seen before and re-read it. Not sure how I lost sight of it. Perhaps I should not have listened to someone outside of here. Sounds to me like that guide is during a one week period. Do you think that is correct. Nadirs during one week?

 

I bookmarked this. Chewy is out of stock at the moment. I asked to be notified when it is back in stock. I always have a cart filled at Chewys but lately, the shipping (carrier, not Chewys) has been a problem

 

The section that I quoted was located smack dab in the middle of a guide for how to adjust the dose after you do a curve, which is generally after holding the dose for one week. All of this is for SLGS (start low go slow) method, which holds the dose for one week before a change is made. Yes, that info reflects what's gathered from a curve. But you'll also see, above that, that anytime a BG number goes below 90, a .25 reduction has been earned.
Hold the dose for at least a week:

• Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
• Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.

According to this, a decrease wasn't needed. I'd feel more comfortable if another set of eyes could confirm this dosing question, So, @JanetNJ or @Panic: Does it look like Susan didn't need to drop the dose from 3.25 to 3U?

Amazon has it stock right now.

I just wanted to caution you that this medication can also cause diarrhea. It's used to treat diarrhea but sometimes diarrhea is also a side effect. So don't panic if that happens. There are other meds to try. I think the one that Arlene suggested sounds great, as it includes probiotics. Jack has pancreatitis and IBD (and also early stage CKD), and I find S. boulardii to work wonders. It's costly compared to other probiotics, but it really helps diarrhea. I add 1/2 capsule,at breakfast and at dinner, to his food. Jack is horribly fussy, but he never knows it's there.

How is Joe feeling today?

 

@Susan Pomo , I swear by Pro-Pectalin, but an excellent substitute is DiaGel. Chewy has it in stock and so does Amazon. Be sure you get the one for cats. It will usually stop diarrhea in its tracks. You might want to get two to have one on hand. I know you and Joe are having a tough time right now. You are both in my prayers.

 

Don't want to hijack this thread (Sorry Susan), but are those products good for cats w/ IBD and pancreatitis? I use S. boulardii for Jack, but he still has occasional flair ups. I'd love to find something to get him past that when it happens. Thanks!

 

@Daddy Jack's Mommy, I haven’t used DiaGel on a cat with IBD/pancreatitis, but cat owners in the reviews have, and say it works when nothing else will. This used to be available only from a vet. You might want to read the Amazon/Chewy reviews, pretty impressive. Pro-Pectalin is recommended by many vets, gentle enough to use on litters of kittens. Contains only kaolin, apple pectin, and probiotics, nothing chemical.

 

Thank you so much! Jack's in the middle of a not-too-terribe flair up, so I'm going to check this out. Have a great day!

 

Hijacking here myself, sorry! Is Jack diabetic? Have you checked Jack’s ketones?

 

Yes. He's a diabetic. No ketones. Eats like a pig! His SS link can be found in my signature.

 

I don't see where it went below 90 so I would keep it at 3.25 for now.

 

I bought Joe this last week and am using it. It contains that S Boulardii
https://www.chewy.com/fera-pet-orga...0CMNRDmIW3RAku-1yzl8A-mEK3JLG1LRoCbmMQAvD_BwE
Joe is feeling very good today. Chipper and alert but his numbers are high

 

I did find this available at Chewy. Is it alright to give this with his other Pro-biotic I bought or only one at a time? Thank you for the prayers. When he is feeling bad I am an emotional wreck
This is the other
https://www.chewy.com/fera-pet-orga...0CMNRDmIW3RAku-1yzl8A-mEK3JLG1LRoCbmMQAvD_BwE

 

There you are. I should not have done anything without asking you but I know you said you were on vacay so I acted on the advice of someone in the FB FD thread. We are back to 3.25. Thanks Janet

 

At the same time, so listen to your gut. I mean in this case really that 0.25 isn't a huge difference. Go with your gut. If you have a feeling he going to go low or he really didn't eat, it's fine to lower a dose.

 

Glad Joe is feeling chipper today! Hopefully the 3.25 will work some magic and get rid of those blacks.

 

I'm so happy to hear that Joe is feeling better!

 

me too!

 

Another black, huh Joe. Well nice recovery so far with your +4 reading. He might have a nadir in the yellows today.

 

thanks for looking in Smorg.

 

Awesome, yellow at PMPS!

 

Hi Susan, sorry I am late to this conversation, but there is a site called Raw Feeding for IBD Cats that has a lot of really good tips for dealing with nausea, inappetance, and diarrhea, even for kitties who don't have IBD. Many of us swear by slippery elm bark. You can buy it in powder form and put it into food with water. I find it to be very helpful with nausea and because it's a soluble fiber it helps firm up stool if there is diarrhea when used in conjunction with S. boulardii. Is he still only eating Weruva? Your signature says Friskies, and the additives and gums in that might be causing his tummy distress. Weruva is much better, but it still has guar gum in it that I think is the culprit for a lot of my cats' GI issues, so I give it to them to eat sparingly as treats, toppers or small snacks in between their raw food meals.

 

HI PCO, I need to change that signature. Joe is strictly on Weruva now but sometimes not happy about it. Today, because I opened 3 cans of Weruva's hoping to have him show interest in one of them, and he did not, I then opened a can of FF Kitten Turkey and he scarfed the big spoonful I gave him.
As for the Weruva and the possible cause of diarrhea, I hate to hear that I as, just this morning, bought 24 more cans of different kinds. I also bought this https://www.chewy.com/van-beek-natural-sciences-diagel/dp/219059 for diarrhea and I am giving him Fera Pro-biotics with S bourdaii (spelling) in it
I appreciate your input

 

Sorry for putting a damper on things! Every cat is different, so the Weruva might not be the cause. It could just be his high numbers.

 

Any body know what the Phosphorus level I am supposed to stay under for CKD?

 

It's recommended to stay under 250 mgs of phosphorus. I have 2 kitties with CKD. When Celie was first dx over 2 years ago, I switched her diet to mostly raw and only low phos canned foods. She's doing great and her kidney values have really improved. Although all my cats eat primarily raw (I have 5 cats), all of them also tolerate weruva canned foods very well. For Celie, keeping low phos was definitely the key to her feeling better.

 

I found a wonderful FB group right after Celie was diagnosed. In the files there, you'll find an unbelievably comprehension list of foods and the list is kept current. I know there is also another FB group that I've seen recommended on the message board, but this one is my personal favorite: https://www.facebook.com/groups/felinecrf/posts/2473976245987338

 

I hope this opens up for you. There's also a list here for diabetes and CKD. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aqmnoTbHkDckpbds_4CSn9wi-dBAMJp-

 

I always try to stay under 200 or 1%

 

you did not put a damper on anything. I appreciate the tip about slippery elm bark. I have heard it before but forgotten it

 

I asked to join and will wait until they approve me to check it out

Do you know how I can "save" this?

 

thanks Janet
Joe is really loving FF Kitten Turkey and I want to keep some on hand for a change

 

I try to stay under 200 as well.

 

On a desktop, you could save it the same way that you save other documents, or you can open it and copy and paste the address onto a word document. I hope that helps!

 

Open up one of the PDFs, and at the top right, click the downward arrow icon thingy.

 

Got it. Thanks Smorg. Once you download it, you can then "save as" and I was able to do that. You jogged my memory here.
Not hi-tech at all

 

Haha, it happens to all of us. That's a different format than I'm used to as well. How's Joe today?

 

Joe is feeling great today even though his numbers are high. He is having kitten turkey by FF and is happy as a clam. He also walked with the dog and me today. We do not go far if he is following because I don't want him far from home

 

Oh good. This process is so frustrating, seeing the high numbers and you can't do anything about it but be patient. I'm glad he's happy and eating. Lucky kitty to get to go on walks.

 

I'm not high tech either, because I didn't know what that downward arrow icon thingy was. Thanks @smorgasbord!

 

@Susan Pomo Chewy has very good customer service, especially if your cat cannot eat what you newly purchased for a medical reason. If you tell them you would like to return it, they'll probably just tell you to donate it and might offer a refund.

 

@varlene is right! Their customer service cannot be beat. If he won’t eat it, just give them a call. I’ve called when a certain food made mine throw up, when they refuse to eat it, and the very rare time Chewy sent me something in place of my own order. Each time, they have asked me to donate to the nearest shelter. If I am testing a new food, I sometimes order from Only Natural Pet or another pet food boutique that sells by the can so we can check out the various flavors and textures. If you find a food that he loves, you might want to order extra. Learned that the hard way.