Help! Is sugar baby about to hypo?

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1 unit is a lot of insulin to shoot at 180...and 89 is a big drop that quickly.

I personally would feed her a little medium carb wet food , or high carb wet food if thats all you have, maybe just start with the gravy to make sure not to fill her up too much in case she does continue to drop and needs to keep eating...

Do you have honey or something like that just in case?

Even if she doesn't go hypo, a big drop or a fast drop is going to feel like hypo to her body and wreak havoc on her system and she's probably going to rebound.

I would be very vigilante and make sure she has food available.
Re-read the stickies about hypo.
I do it regularly lol

If you give her low carb food, again, she might fill her belly up on that and then not have enough room if she needs high carb food.

Hang in there and keep posting.

If she goes around 50 or lower I would put the 911 tag in your title.
 
Also if you don't get any replies from more experienced members here and you're still worried or she's still dropping, I'd consider trying the main forum , it gets more views than here I think.
 
I have honeyband a stash of FF that's 24 carb. I'm giving her that. Will that mess up that streak of blue we've had?
 
Btwinny said:
I have honeyband a stash of FF that's 24 carb. I'm giving her that. Will that mess up that streak of blue we've had?
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The rebound is going to mess up that streak anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that right now.

Most important thing is to keep her poor little body from extremes.

I would give food now, save honey for if she drops closer to 50.

I personally use 13-15% carb and that clears very fast so you might do very well with 24% carbs to keep her steady...

Because she went so low so fast I'd go ahead and let her eat about 1/4 can of that and then retest in about 20 minutes...

Just watch for any signs and have honey ready in case in the meantime.
 
I did the honey before you posted. Oops. And I think she had just eaten her low carb food so she may not be hungry
 
Btwinny said:
I did the honey before you posted. Oops. And I think she had just eaten her low carb food so she may not be hungry
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That's fine, it clears very quickly so when they *are* hypo honey isn't even enough on it's own anyway.

So slowing down that drop at this point is probably good.

When my guy went down to 53 he ate so much so fast I was worried he wasn't taking time to breathe! lol

So since you're catching it in time and if appetite isn't usually a problem with her I'm sure she'll be able to eat if she needs to.

That high carb food is very enticing too! lol

Hang in there and test when you can.
 
Btwinny said:
I did the honey before you posted. Oops. And I think she had just eaten her low carb food so she may not be hungry
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The thing about honey is that it is not going to last long. It may reflect a BGL increase for I think maybe 30 min or maybe less, but that won't give an overall active picture of the current insulin response.

If you have high carb and low carb only, you can mathematically mix the two and make something medium carb.

ETA: obviously @Jasper Blue and Jay is responding faster than me!
 
Btwinny said:
I'll test in about 10 mins. It's been 20 already. If it hasn't gone any lower than 89 is she fine?
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No, because honey is on board now, and honey clears very quickly, so the next test will probably show a rise from the honey. But you'll have to keep testing.


The low carb food should help, especially combined with the honey... but it's still a long way til nadir...
 
Yup. Still 89. Which I would normally think was ok since there was no drip but now I don't know how food influenced it was. Her behavior seems fine. I gave her a bit if a Sheba stick and she was just in the kitchen eating her low carb stuff. Behavior seems fine
 
Btwinny said:
Yup. Still 89. Which I would normally think was ok since there was no drip but now I don't know how food influenced it was. Her behavior seems fine. I gave her a bit if a Sheba stick and she was just in the kitchen eating her low carb stuff. Behavior seems fine
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That's the honey. It will bring her up quickly but won't stick around much longer.
And the high carb food still needs a bit to kick in but won't stick around all night and she seems to have a late nadir sometimes too.

I'm going to reply over on the main forum now.

Hang in there. Keep testing. Update ss. Reread hypo sticky. Take a deep breath. You got this. :bighug:
 
Btwinny said:
So next question.... Can we project her BG will be high at amps and should I just stay with 1u?
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I always promise myself I'm not going to give in and dose higher because of a rebound... but then I see the high numbers and give in lol

If it's more than she really needs, you might end up in an endless rebound loop...

But if she needs it for whatever reason, rebound/high carbs, then she needs it.

She's responding so quickly to insulin though... her insulin needs could be changing very quickly... so I'd just play it by ear, see what the amps is...see how you feel about how the night went, if you are going to be able to test her during the day, etc.

See what the amps is but , some cats go into remission just from the diet change alone... she could be one of those cats.

I think 2u is a lot to start out on while also doing a diet change.

I would have only given .75 or .50 tonight. She did very well with the .75 during the day.

Does any of that make sense or answer your question ? lol
 
Hi Kathy-

I'm really concerned about the advice you were given here. While that isn't your fault at all, I want to post a correction in case anyone finds this thread in the future.

Prozinc will often flatten out through the middle of the cycle. So while the drop from 189 to 89 was steep, you should not have been counseled to give honey at that point. Honey should only be administered if a cat is not able to eat for themselves because of a symptomatic hypo. When a steep drop like that is occurring, you should give the kitty a snack (they will likely be quite hungry and willing to eat), and continue to monitor. If the number reaches a lime green, then you would give high carb food. However, as I said, there is a reasonable chance that the kitty will simply flatten out and continue to surf in the dark greens for several hours.

There is also the very real possibility that your cat has an early nadir. In addition, early drops are not at all uncommon in newly diagnosed cats that are healing. The pancreas starts kicking out its own insulin and brings the number down faster. It's a sign of a healthier cat and not something to fear.
 
Djamila said:
Hi Kathy-

I'm really concerned about the advice you were given here. While that isn't your fault at all, I want to post a correction in case anyone finds this thread in the future.

Prozinc will often flatten out through the middle of the cycle. So while the drop from 189 to 89 was steep, you should not have been counseled to give honey at that point. Honey should only be administered if a cat is not able to eat for themselves because of a symptomatic hypo. When a steep drop like that is occurring, you should give the kitty a snack (they will likely be quite hungry and willing to eat), and continue to monitor. If the number reaches a lime green, then you would give high carb food. However, as I said, there is a reasonable chance that the kitty will simply flatten out and continue to surf in the dark greens for several hours.

There is also the very real possibility that your cat has an early nadir. In addition, early drops are not at all uncommon in newly diagnosed cats that are healing. The pancreas starts kicking out its own insulin and brings the number down faster. It's a sign of a healthier cat and not something to fear.
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She wasn't counseled to give honey.


She gave honey because she was nervous before I responded.

She was told that honey was an option in the event that the cat did continue the steep drop.

And considering the cat was given honey and high carb food and still didn't rise at all...

indicates that this cat WAS going to continue to go lower.

And this cat nadirrs later and is a slow riser and has been trending lower and lower at preshot.


Again...

She was not counseled to give honey at the number she did.

She was given information for how to handle things throughout the night in the event of a hypo.
 
Djamila said:
There is also the very real possibility that your cat has an early nadir.
Click to expand...


You have mischaracterized what happened and claimed I gave her "bad advice" I didnt' give...

and now you've clearly not looked at the ss...

Because as I and others who did look at the spreadsheet while we stayed up with her all night observed...

THIS cat nadirs LATE... not early.

And... is slow to rise.

And ... trends lower and lower at preshot.


Please read the SS and the threads from the night before wrongly accusing someone of something, or mistakenly claiming a cat with a late nadir actually has an early one.
 
@Btwinny as you saw for yourself...with your cat...who you know better than anyone ...and who is your responsibility and who YOU will mourn in the event of a hypo you sat back and watched happen and withheld lifesaving honey/carbs because some stranger on a message board admonished you about it...

The honey didn't hurt your cat.

In fact, your cat is doing great.

And you avoided hypo.

Which is a very good thing.

There is no reason to send a cat into "lime greens" which is a seemingly innocuous way to refer to a deadly situation that can escalate incredibly quickly.
 
All I can say is I was very thankful for everyone that stayed up with me, gave advice and a helping hand and walked me through it. There was definitely concern regarding how quickly scout dropped in 2 hours. She is a late nadir and I know this about her. The honey was my choice to bring the BG up or atleast stabilize it. My fear was how much more it would drop around +6.

Scout and I are new to this and both learning. We welcome all advice.
 
"lime greens" is quite a misleading name to describe a range which is deadly.

Once a cat reaches "lime greens" that is a life threatening state that CAN escalate so quickly that some cats will never recover.

I'm not sure why anyone would tell a stranger who is newly diagnosed to sit back and deliberately let their baby fall into a life threatening state from which they might not recover... and withhold honey/carbs... on purpose. Why?

No one here is going to be the one who faces the loss if you wait too long to intervene.

You're Scouts mom, and you trusted your instincts, and you were right.

Even if her numbers went up a bit, which they didn't... you still would have been right.

Too high is better than too low, and I'm not sure why anyone would advise you otherwise.

Scout's body is dealing with a lot of change, and is adapting very well very quickly. There is no reason to add more stress to her body by deliberately sitting back and watching her go hypo because someone on a message board thinks its "totally safe" and then hope you can pull her out of it in time.

I feel bad you're being inundated with apparently divergent opinions on hypoglycemia and whether or not you should try to prevent it...and you should never replace your own judgement with that of strangers on the internet obviously, so definitely keep reading up on it, as much info as you can and see what makes sense for you and Scout.

Remember again, that these meters aren't 100% accurate.

low green might already be "lime green" and "lime green" might already be too late.
 
Jasper Blue and Jay said:
And considering the cat was given honey and high carb food and still didn't rise at all...

indicates that this cat WAS going to continue to go lower.
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No it does not. I understand that you believe that, but it isn't true. What it does indicate is that the cat's pancreas is doing part of the work.

Jasper Blue and Jay said:
THIS cat nadirs LATE... not early.
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There isn't enough data to support that claim. In a newly diagnosed cat, the nadir changes, sometimes rapidly. And looking at the trends over time, Scout is entering a new phase of his journey which means that a previous cycle's data may or may not apply at this present time.

Jasper Blue and Jay said:
There is no reason to send a cat into "lime greens" which is a seemingly innocuous way to refer to a deadly situation that can escalate incredibly quickly.
Click to expand...

Again, prozinc, when it's working well, often results in flattening across the middle of the cycle. Odds were that the lime greens would never have happened and Scout would surf through the middle. In addition, the higher lime green numbers are absolutely not a deadly situation. I understand you experience tremendous anxiety about this, but 50 is the take action number, not the deadly situation number, and scaring people doesn't help the cat or the human.

And yes, I will continue to call out advice like this because it does harm the cats involved, and raises the anxiety of the humans.
 
Jasper Blue and Jay said:
Too high is better than too low, and I'm not sure why anyone would advise you otherwise.
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The reason I will say otherwise is because i have never seen one single cat get into serious trouble from a low number in the years i have been here. I have seen MANY cats die from high numbers. The pernicious advice that high is better than low literally kills cats on this forum. Low numbers are easily managed.
 
Djamila said:
No it does not. I understand that you believe that, but it isn't true. What it does indicate is that the cat's pancreas is doing part of the work.



There isn't enough data to support that claim. In a newly diagnosed cat, the nadir changes, sometimes rapidly. And looking at the trends over time, Scout is entering a new phase of his journey which means that a previous cycle's data may or may not apply at this present time.



Again, prozinc, when it's working well, often results in flattening across the middle of the cycle. Odds were that the lime greens would never have happened and Scout would surf through the middle. In addition, the higher lime green numbers are absolutely not a deadly situation. I understand you experience tremendous anxiety about this, but 50 is the take action number, not the deadly situation number, and scaring people doesn't help the cat or the human.

And yes, I will continue to call out advice like this because it does harm the cats involved, and raises the anxiety of the humans.
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I'm sorry but none of what you're saying is logical. "trends over time" ?!?!?

This cat was just diagnosed... there is no "over time" ....

The only consistent thing about this cat is that she DOES nadir later... that she DOES go lower and lower at PS and that she does rise later.

That is the "over time" we're working with.

There is no "new phase", jfc, she's brand new!

This is ALL a new phase.

Everything you say is as if you didn't look at the ss at all...

The limited data shows late nadir, I and others noticed it, the cats owner knows it's a late nadir cat, you're the only one who seems to think that a cat who has consistently had a late nadir is suddenly early nadir while you disregard SO MUCH other data.

It makes no sense.

SURE ... she MIGHT be changing to an early nadir cat...who knows?

But when a cat drops 100 points in just two hours you don't sit around and play guessing games... if its your cat, you do what you need to do to feel safe, period.

And there is nothing wrong with that.



I don't want to argue with you, but since you chimed in with a false accusation against me...and dangerous advice contrary to the pet owners own experience with their cat, I felt compelled to respond.

Please, take ALL the data available into consideration.

There is NO reason for ANYONE to be told they should not have given their cat honey.

ZERO.

ESPECIALLY...

Not someone who was up all night with a newly diagnosed cat who dropped 100 points in just the first two hours!


If you want to start a thread discussing whether or not a newly diagnosed pet parent who sees their cat drop 100 points in two hours to a number below 100 should be told NOT to try to stabilize their own cat then lets do that. But she doesn't need this on this thread.

She chose to give HER cat what SHE felt was right for HER cat in the moment, and here is NOTHING wrong with that!

Are you ever going to explain WHY you think a pet parent should deliberately put their cat into hypo before intervening?

Because I haven't seen you supply a reason for that yet...
 
Whoa! Time out here! This is not helpful.
I'm closing this thread 'til I can review and comment.

@Btwinny
Kathy, please feel free to start a new thread. I trust the tone displayed here will not be carried over to the next thread.

@Jasper Blue and Jay
Jay, as someone recently said on another thread... "Slow your roll."


After reviewing thread:
I've decided not to edit the thread, but it will remain locked.

It's my understanding apologies have been offered. I also believe both parties meant well and offered the very best advice commensurate with their experience with Prozinc and diabetic cats. That said, let me borrow a phrase from our Admin's avatar: 'Purr More, Hiss Less'.
It's good advice. Let's move on. :)


@Btwinny
I'm sorry your thread was hijacked!
 
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