Help! Howie got into a bag of bread

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Howiesmom, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. Howiesmom

    Howiesmom Member

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    Aug 11, 2020
    Help! Howie got into a bag of bread last night which he has never done before. I tested him as soon as i found it (at about +3) and he was at 300. I scoured everywhere to find info on what to do and found nothing in an emergency like this. Overnight, he of course had diarrhea (no shock there), drank almost all the water I had set out, and ate most of his +5 mini meal. This AM he is super lethargic and and would hardly eat. I would estimate he ate less than a quarter of his breakfast. His AMPS was 323 and I did give him a shot since he ate a bit. Now what? Is this worthy of the emergency vet line? I’m so scared of any permanent damage this may cause. I’m not sure how much bread he ate but he has no teeth, so he couldn’t get into that much.
     
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  2. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Maybe he has a tummy ache? I wouldn't think there's cause for concern, non-diabetic kitties eat bread often enough. You'll just have to ride the BG out, nothing you can do except wait till it's out of the system.
     
  3. Howiesmom

    Howiesmom Member

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    Aug 11, 2020
    Thank you! I guess I’m doing another partial day if testing to make sure he’s going down. I just can’t believe he did this!
     
  4. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    They are such naughty things!!

    Any tests are good! I am not sure how long high-carb people food takes to leave the system but dry food takes 1-2 days. To keep in mind. ;) It'll go down at some point.
     
  5. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Just be glad it wasnt pizza.:rolleyes::p:oops:
     
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  6. Howiesmom

    Howiesmom Member

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    Aug 11, 2020
    He’s dropped 78 points in 3 hours Down to 251, so crisis averted! Thanks for the quick help and reference about how long dry food takes to get out of his system. Of course he has his first fructosamine Test on Wednesday, so hopefully this won’t skew those results too much!
     
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  7. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi there,

    Full disclosure: I have never treated a cat with Prozinc insulin. I am an experienced user of other insulins.

    What we know:
    1. Larger 6IU dose was given last night.
    2. Howie got into a bag of bread. Has never exhibited such behaviour before.
    3. Overnight Howie had diarrhoea.
    4. This morning Howie is extremely lethargic.
    5. Howie's appetite is poor this morning.
    6. There is no mid-cycle data for the Prozinc 6 IU dose, either on AM cycle or PM cycle.
    What follows is conjecture on my part but it is based on general principles of managing a cat on insulin.

    Because there are no historical data available to give an idea of the safety of the 6IU Prozinc dose all one can go on are the observed behaviours and Howie's clinical signs.

    Lethargy may be observed when a cat is running high. This morning Howie's AMPS was higher than usual. Possible causes:

    (a) BG still elevated after eating bread.

    (b) Rebound from a low BG level overnight triggered by the body's self-protective mechanisms (bouncing).

    (c) A combination of the above.

    A cat may become lethargic when blood sugar is too low, or BG levels have gone through a big, steep drop. it can take time for a cat to recover from a symtomatic hypo during which time it may also exhibit lethargy.

    Here's a typical description of some of the after-effects humans may feel after a hypo episode (from a human diabetics' discussion forum):

    "When I bounce back after treating a hypo I feel weak, lethargic, achey and I tend to develop a thumping headache too."

    The diarrhoea may have been triggered by the bread Howie ate, but there's a wee niggling in the back of my mind that loose bowels may also be a hypo symptom (though I couldn't swear to the latter in open court).

    Weighing up what information there is available, I am leaning towards Howie possibly having had a significant hypo event last night. What tips the balance for me is that he tore into the bread, something he has never done before.

    If Howie were mine, I would NOT not give another 6 unit dose of insulin. I do not think it's safe.

    You do have a home-run curve for the 3IU Prozinc dose so you have at least some evidence of its safety. I suggest you contact your vet today to discuss giving a 3IU dose twice a day. For safety, I also strongly recommend that you get at least one mid-cycle test each day. If your schedule is tight then the one that most people can manage is the 'just before bed' test on the PM cycle. Even if it's only a few hours after the insulin dose was administered, it will give you some idea of how a dose is working and throw some bit of light on whether or not the dose is safe.

    This is just my interpretation of events given the information available. Other members may have a different take.

    I don't know Howie's dosing history but doubling up the 3IU Prozinc dose on some cycles is not a dosing method I've observed before. How did you arrive at these doses?

    I'm tagging @Deb & Wink, a highly experienced Prozinc user, to ask her to review this thread and Howie's spreadsheet and give you some feedback next time she's online.

    If you do reduce the dose please make sure to check Howard's pee daily for ketones until the situation becomes clearer, especially if he has any history of throwing ketones or DKA episodes. I also recommend you contact your vet ASAP to let them know about this episode and to discuss Howard's current insulin requirements.

    I'm glad to read you're testing today. Note that if you get a run of high numbers, or if the BG levels don't go any lower by a noteworthy degree than the BG values in the curve you ran for the 3IU dose, today's tests will throw no light at all on the potential safety of the 6IU Prozinc dose.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  9. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    6 units is indeed a rather large dose for a fairly newly diagnosed cat. It could be he felt himself going low last night and that's how he kept himself safe. You might want to get some spot check tests at night, maybe just before going to bed. Many cats go lower at night.

    Full disclosure, my cat was a bread lover (banana bread, muffins, baguettes, bread starter :rolleyes:) and she ended up over 6 units, but it took a while to get there.
     
  10. Howiesmom

    Howiesmom Member

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    Aug 11, 2020
    Update: Howie seems to have returned to his mostly normal self. I was able to get up through a +3 reading and he was at 251 before I had to leave for a while today. Tonight his PMPS was 205....the lowest I’ve ever seen him at. His appetite was normal too. I see the vet on Wed for his first fructosamine test so will be discussing his dosage. Thanks for all the info and perspectives!
     
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  11. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Any chance you can get a test in a few hours before you go to bed?
     
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